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Russia P.M.: Strained Relationship Between Russia and West Could be a New Cold War; George W. Bush to Campaign for Brother Jeb; Democratic Candidates Fight For Black Vote; Atlanta Mayor Criticizes Sanders As Dismissive Of Obama's Record; Sanders Releases Ad Featuring Eric Garner's Daughter; Kasich Keeps It Clean In South Carolina Pre- Debate; GOP Ramps Up Rhetoric On Immigration; Federal Government Sues Ferguson, Missouri; Ferguson's Mayor Says "There Was No Agreement" With Justice Department. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired February 13, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:28] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A look at our top stories. The FBI is now working with police in Columbus, Ohio to determine the motive of a man that went on a rampage with a machete in a restaurant. Police are investigating it as a possible lone wolf terror attack. Four people were injured, including one man in critical condition. Police shot and killed the 30-year-old after a car chase.

And the gunman who shot an Indianapolis police officer is now in custody, it happened early this morning on the south side of the city. The officer was shot in the forearm while responding to reports of a suspicious man walking back and forth between houses. The officer has been treated and is doing fine. Investigators are trying to figure out the gunman's motive.

And Hawaii is launching preemptive strike against Zika virus. State leaders now mobilizing resources expecting mosquitos carrying the virus to reach the island, the governor signed an emergency proclamation Friday. The World Health organization recently announced two possible Zika vaccines are under development but, they wouldn't be available for a year and a half.

Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jeb, oh. Jeb, he's asleep, he's asleep at the wheel, folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump says he's running a positive campaign but the gloves keep coming off. What to expect at tonight's Republican debate.

Plus Hillary Clinton continues to cling to Obama's presidency. Will this tactic help or hurt her in South Carolina. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think millions of Americans are better off because of his presidency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what we know about the Flint water crisis just got worse. Our exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is a cover up. I think it stinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

WHITFIELD: Hello again everyone and thanks so much for joining me, I am Fredricka Whitfield.

All right, just one week until one of the most influential, contentious Republican presidential primaries, South Carolina. This is a critical day for six remaining candidates who will face off in a debate tonight in Greenville. And, as we saw in New Hampshire, a debate could change everything. While all the candidates are no doubt preparing a good offense and defense, some are still working the ground game.

Jeb Bush spoke to voters in Fountain Inn, South Carolina earlier today. And this hour, the New Hampshire runner up John Kasich will hold a rally in Mauldin South Carolina.

Let's go to CNN's Ryan Nobles right now and MJ Lee, they're both in Greenville, the site of tonight's debate.

So, Ryan, you first. South Carolina has been the scene of recent attack ads, among other Republicans. Is it expected that this kind of sets the tone for what could happen at the debate?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, before things could get little testy here tonight in Greenville. There's of course a lot at stake with the primary only a week away. But we could see the battle play out on a number of fronts. Of course, there's the Ted Cruz-Donald Trump battle, we'll talk about that in a second.

But let's not forget about these candidates in the middle of the pack. You got Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, and John Kasich all fighting over the same pile of voters. We've seen Marco Rubio start to mention other candidates in this race by name, kind of going after them a little bit on the campaign trail.

And then there's John Kasich who largely hasn't been attacked all that much in the campaign, but after his strong finish in New Hampshire, he's someone that the other candidates could go after on the debate stage tonight. But of course, everybody's going to have their eyes on Donald Trump and Ted Cruz because they are running first and second. We'll have to see they've been pretty kind to each other on the debate stage up until this point. We'll see if that will all change here tonight, Fred.

WHITFIELD: We're going to be watching, of course. So, MJ, you're looking for five things in particular, and you're kind of inspiring all to look to these five things in particular about tonight, what are they?

MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you first of all, we are expecting lots of sparks to fly on the debate stage tonight. Here's what's at stake, remember Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are heading to the debate stage with one victory under their belt. Obviously Ted Cruz won the Iowa caucuses, Donald Trump just won New Hampshire, and they both desperately want to win another -- have another victory in South Carolina, the first southern state primary.

And that's why we have seen things get so nasty between the two candidates recently. Ted Cruz releasing a series of ads basically accusing Donald Trump of not being very conservative, even calling him a sleaze. And Donald Trump, clearly bothered by this, tweeting yesterday, that if Cruz doesn't clean up his act, then he may have to sue him for not being a natural born citizen.

[12:05:07] So, that dynamic there is going to be fascinating one to watch. And as Ryan mentioned, the battle for the establishment lane is also going to be fierce, both Rubio and Jeb Bush, they both believe that they have reason to feel good heading into South Carolina, so sort of two warring faction here that we're going to see outplaying out tonight on the debate stage.

WHITFIELD: Right. We will all be watching with our buckets of popcorn. All right, thanks so much. MJ Lee, Ryan Nobles, appreciate it.

All right, CNN will have a special post debate show. To make sure you watch it here at 11:00 p.m. Eastern time.

All right, the Democrats are campaigning in Nevada today where that state's Democratic caucus is a just a week away also. Bernie Sanders will launch his campaigning there in Reno and Hillary Clinton is hosting a rally in Henderson.

Let's talk more about this with CNN Senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns, who is in Henderson there with the Clinton camps.

So, in 2008, Clinton picked up popular vote in Nevada over Obama, he got most of the delegates, however. But according to Politico, by mid January Sanders hired twice the number of staffers on the ground there. So, can Clinton afford, you know, afford -- no, I guess, she can't afford to be very overly confident about Nevada. What's she doing differently?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Nevada is a critical test for Hillary Clinton, Fred. And the simple fact of this is that after losing in New Hampshire, after that very close win in Iowa, she needs to pick up a little bit of momentum. And the time to do it is a week from today when Democrats start caucusing here in Nevada.

So, it's a big test for her, even in advance of the South Carolina primary that comes a week after next Saturday, the test for Bernie Sanders of course is Nevada is a very diverse state, so you have a lot of Latinos, African-Americans, and generally speaking when he was in Iowa, when he was in Hew Hampshire, that was a much more narrow demographic group of people, constituents and voters. Coming here, he can show that he is a candidate who has a much broader appeal. So, we will have to see how he does in this state.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks Joe John. All right, and thanks so much, Joe Johns, we will check back with you in Henderson, Nevada.

All right, a new Cold War? That's how Russia's prime minister describes strained relations between Moscow and the west. How this could a sign of Russia's mounting aggression.

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[12:10:51] WHITFIELD: Welcome back, breaking news this hour, strong words from the Russia's prime minister saying the strained relationship between Russia and the west could be described as a new cold war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: NATO's policy with regard to Russia, it means "unfriendly and opaque." one could keep as apart, as to say we slip back to a new cold war. All most an empty bases, but of course, one of the most terrible threats either Tunisia as a (inaudible) or to Europe or the United States. Sometimes I wonder whether it is 2016 we live in or 1962.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's talk more about this with CNN Global Affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier.

So, Kim does this stem from community's economic sanctions imposed by the West or response it response the kind of military activity that's happening in Syria?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I would say, Fred, it comes from both. You just had the Obama administration announced that it intends to quadruple its defense spending on NATO and European countries, specifically because they want to check an "aggressive Russia".

You have top U.S officials said the past couple years that Russia is an existential threat to the United States, meaning it could end the way American life is run as we know it. So on different levels from practical to rhetorical, you had the U.S, and Russia facing off. So it is not surprising to see it coming out in remarks at the summit.

WHITFIELD: And so the White House has long said, you know, Russia is too aggressive in Syria and the president even saying, you know, he does not want another cold war. So, how does this help set the tone, whether it be from the European union or set the stage for this back and forth discussion with Russia about whether they are or are not in a cold war.

DOZIER: Well, how it is going to play out initially is with Syria, what we are seeing on the ground right now. We are seeing the U.S. ask for Russia to get its Syrian client to stop fighting, especially around the city of Aleppo, and let peace talks with Syrian rebels go forward.

Russia saying you can't expect such talks to start with the cessation of hostilities, but first trust has to be built up. The Syrian rebels which are not party to this agreement are saying, how can you expect us to sit down with Syrian leader Assad when Russia is helping us to have create facts on the ground. And Assad, himself, over this past week has said, he intends to take back all of Syrian territory.

And it looks like at this rate, the way his forces are advancing, he might be able to do that.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kim Dozier in Washington. Thank you so much.

DOZIER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: The terror organizational Al Shabaab is now claiming responsibility for setting up that a bomb on a Somali airliner. You might remember scene of the bomber falling to his death after the explosion blew hole in the plane. Al Shabab admits the bombing didn't go as planned.

The attackers snuck-in a laptop rig with military grade A TNT, but it didn't cause a catastrophic explosion because it was set off before the plane reached cruising altitude. Only two people were injured. The pilot was able to land safely. Al Shabab is vowing to continue to targeting western intelligence teams operating in Somalia.

And at the top of the hour Pope Francis will meet in Mexico's bishops. On his way, thousands of adoring people greeted the Pope. He kissed babies, blessing the sick. And there you see him right now walking down the procession there. The pope's address will address major issues in Mexico, warring cartels, corruption, and poverty.

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[12:19:00] WHITFIELD: Another Bush is hitting the campaign trail. George W. Bush is joining Jeb in South Carolina, Monday. The former president has been helping his brother behind the scenes, doing television and radio ads. But this will be his firs time publicly campaigning since he left the White House. Athena Jones has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATHENA JONES, CNN REPORTER: George W. Bush is back.

GEORGE W. BUSH: Experience and judgment count in the oval office. Jeb Bush is a leader who will keep our country safe. He respects the military. He honors their families.

JONES: And Jeb Bush couldn't be happier about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the last Republican that was president. He is the most popular Republican alive.

JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I' proud brother of George W. Bush.

JONES: Bush whose campaign logo doesn't include the famous last name and who begin the run stressing he would be "his own man", has been embracing his more each passing day.

BUSH: I'm Jeb! Proud to be a Bush.

JONES: His mother Barbara Bush joining him on the stump in Hew Hampshire.

BUSH: You met Barbara Bush.

[12:20:04] JONES: The brothers will be campaigning together for the first time Monday. Unitl now, W has been helping out behind the scenes.

BUSH: This is the first time he's really -- has stepped out in the political realm since he was president, I think there will be a lot of interest what he has to say.

JONES: It was once the younger Bush. He was thought to have a head for politics, but his older brother beat him there, winning a governorship first and later, the White House.

BUSH: I George Walker Bush do solemnly swear ...

JONES: Eight years during which Jeb Bush has said he never disagreed with his brother on policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Not one time did you call up and say don't do that?

JEB BUSH: I'm not going to start now, it's just until death do us part.

JONES: The assist from W won't come without criticism.

TRUMP: Your brother and your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama, because it was such a disaster those last three months that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.

JEB BUSH: You know what, as relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Donald Trump has repeatedly bashed the elder Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq.

TRUMP: And I see his bringing these from ...

JONES: And the GOP front runner says he will be ready with more choice words for the Bushes in the coming days.

TRUMP: Now he's bringing in his brother. I won't say anything. I'm going to say that for after his brother makes a statement because there's plenty to say about what happened.

JONES: Athena Jones, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so how much will Jeb's big brother be able to help?

I am joined by CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley and Larry Sabato, he is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virgina. Good to see you both.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: So, you know, when South Carolina voters see George W, will they, now more than ever, have a hard time distinguishing him from his brother Jeb, Larry?

LARRY SABATO, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINA: I don't think he is going to have that much impact in the primary, in part not because Jeb's in fourth place at 11 percent. Trump's average is somewhere around 36 percent, followed by Cruz at 20, and Marco Rubio is several points ahead of Jeb Bush.

Now, maybe w Bush, W Bush can help Jeb jump over Marco Rubio. I don't see him getting him enough fire power to get to the fire power to get to the front of the line.

WHITFIELD: And then Doug, how he's going to save this because for so long Jeb Bush, you know, kept saying at the very beginning, I am not my brother. He tried very much to distinguish himself from the brother, of course the slogan Jeb! No Bush there at all.

What does it mean that he would want to engage his brother. His brother did well in South Carolina as did their dad, but what's the bigger picture as to why he should be engaged in helping campaign for his brother, whether it would be effective?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it tells you that Jeb Bush's campaign is in trouble and it is all hands on deck now. He's there's nothing, you know, we've got nothing left to lose but try different things, as Larry correctly I think correctly just said, he is down in the polls. It's hard to think he will get much of a bump from having his brother come. But nevertheless, it must feel good to know you have your family behind you.

Let's say Jeb Bush has to get out of the race after South Carolina, I am sure George W. Bush doesn't want to live the rest of his life thinking I sat on the sidelines and never came out and help my brother. So, it makes sense great deal of sense that George W. Bush is coming in now, but it is like a Hail Mary pass a desperation move in the end.

WHITFIELD: And then Larry, do you see that specific to South Carolina if say, you know, Jeb does all right or decides to continue, you know, in the race past South Carolina. Do you think George W will be out there again for him particularly as we get close to that Super Tuesday?

SABATO: Well, probably. But let me reiterate what Doug just suggested, because I think it's actually critical. Why is George W. Bush just now coming out for Jeb! It's because Jeb didn't want to emphasize the Bush --

WHITFIELD: Right, right.

SABATO: And he didn't want to emphasize the Bush because frankly from the very beginning just about everybody said three Bushes are one too many. I mean, it's historically unprecedented, as Doug knows to have three people from the same nuclear family, the president a limited period of time. So, this is a Hail Mary pass.

WHITFIELD: And so, you know, Daug is it also kind of -- I don't know a difficult situation for the family? We saw Barbara Bush came out while campaigning in New Hampshire. Maybe that, too, is considered Hail Mary pass. At the same time, did Jeb Bush have to grapple with explaining all the time why he wouldn't engage his family when it would seem like a no brainer that he would, given the political dynasty, but at the same time we all understand he had the argument with the Iraq war he wanted to distance himself from his brother's legacy.

[12:25:02] BRINKLEY: Yeah, Jeb Bush has been in a conundrum. On the one hand, wanted to be his own man, but he carries the last name Bush. And probably in hindsight should have embraced his brother's man till right off the bat, but that came fraught with problems like the unpopular Iraq war, with the -- giving us the great recession, with the mishandling of Hurricane Katrina.

In the end, what's hurt Jeb Bush is he's never explained his very fine record as governor of Florida. Instead now, he is going to be talking about his brother instead of his own record.

WHITFIELD: All right. Douglas Brinkley, Larry, Sabato, good to see both of you gentlemen, thank you very much.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

SABATO: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up on state of union, we'll hear from Jeb Bush about bringing his brother into the campaign. Catch that tomorrow morning 9:00 a.m. right here on CNN.

Also, coming up, while Bernie Sanders lays out his ideal America, there's criticism over his lack of recognition for the work already being done. You'll hear that next as we talk about how Democrats are fighting for the African-American vote in South Carolina.

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WHITFIELD: The African-American vote can make or break a Democratic presidential campaign in South Carolina.

In 2008 Black voters made up more than 50 percent of the voters in the South Carolina Democratic primary. While Clinton is expected to carry the vote in the Palmetto State, Bernie Sanders is working to close the gap. But he's also running into some feedback.

Last night at a forum in Minnesota hosted by a panel of African- American moderators, Sanders an inquisitive and borderline, I guess raucous crowd, a very vocal one woman even challenging Sanders to say the word Black.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:30:15] SANDERS: We have the highest rate of childhood problem of any place or country on earth. Especially with the African-American community. So, what are you -- I said for about 50 times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right let's talk more about this with our panel, Donna Brazile, as our CNN Political commentator and a democratic strategist, Dr. Jason Johnson, as a political editor for theroot.com. All right it's good to see both you.

JASON JOHNSON, POLITICAL EDITOR ROOT.COM: Good to see Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right so Donna, I want to begin with you. What do you suppose is at the root of that tension we just saw?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN COMMENTATOR: You know, African-American voters, black voters like most Americans would like to see candidates address their issues, their concerns, and be cognizant of some of the -- what I call cultural shifts that's taking place, the dynamics of inner-city politics, the urban policies, you know, so they are looking for the nuances between the candidates and they want to hear of this, what I call the specifics of their policies, their solutions, not just that they march with Dr. King, or they may have gone to jail during that period, but what have you done for us lately.

So I think this is a very vibrant, energetic conversation that we're going to see not just in South Carolina, because right after the South Carolina primary, two days later on Super Tuesday you have Georgia, Alabama, and Arkansas, Tennessee, and then later on that in Virginia, and later on my home state of Louisiana where you have a lot of black delegates that stake. So I think these candidates need to really tune their message to not just inspire and uplift but to really come up with some solutions.

WHITFIELD: And then Jason how do you see the spilling into the primaries in caucuses in your view?

JOHNSON: Well I think it's going to spill over because there's a lot of skepticism out there. I mean look it seems like Bernie Sanders like ...

WHITFIELD: Skepticism of whom and of what?

JOHNSON: I think of both candidates. You know for African Americans just like Bernie like discovered black voters 18 months ago. Right now he's coming over to use in polices.

WHITFIELD: Even though if there's anything as this-- you know his history as a member of, you know, CORE at University Of Chicago, civil rights movement, he was arrested once. He helped integrate an apartment complex there but you're saying because people don't have I guess full acknowledge of that. They're just being introduced to that idea with that part of this man. Therein lies the skepticism.

JOHNSON: Well it's not just that. It's like most of these things are 50 and 60 years ago and I don't care. I don't care that a lot of voters don't care.

WHITFIELD: Let's go back to what he just said, what he does done lately?

JOHNSON: Yes what have you done for me lately? Where have you shown policies that actually matter? Where have you hired people? Where have you brought people in on your staff? Everyone already knows what the Clintons have and have not done for the African-American community. So I think this is actually great. I think the first time in history we have seen Democratic candidates as they compete for the African- American vote with policies and symbolism, rather than just performance.

WHITFIELD: And it's not necessarily -- this doesn't set this ground work that it's a shoe-in for Hillary Clinton either, because there are a lot of people in the black community who were still upset with crime bill during the Clinton administration, Donna, and while Hillary and Bill Clinton have apologized for, you know, that, there are still people who say I am not necessarily sure if I want to give Hillary Clinton a chance because -- especially, the mandatory minimums, that was so egregious and so big that some people find that unforgivable.

BRAZILE: Well you know, Fred, the truth is, I was a Capitol Hill staff during that time in a large majority of the congressional black caucus because members of the black caucus, like members of the entire Congress, they were under pressure from the black community from black ministers and others who wanted a response to the crime epidemic. And did it go too far? Bill Clinton has apologized. He said last year at the NAACP, yes, it went too far.

Hillary Clinton has been a United State senator and secretary of the state. Now I would hope that we'll argue about her history in that realm not only as first lady but also her history. And let me just say this and when you talk about lately, I start my history sometime back in the 1960s, but also, you know, I like to talk about local politics and what's going on right now. We have a crisis in Flint. That water crisis is not just Flint. That's a phenomena and taking place all over America. We got the Ferguson effect. What are you doing about that? We have joblessness, chronic joblessness, homelessness. We need to have all of these addressed and not just focused on one particular issue but look at the entire systemic problems facing the African-American poor, black communities all over the country.

WHITFIELD: OK, you know and it's interesting because just last night, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed had this to say really about why that he thought it was disingenuous that perhaps Bernie Sanders did not mention Obama's record. Now, he actually said he was dismissing Obama's record. This is what he had to say on our air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KASIM REED,(D) Atlanta: Well, you know one of the things that has been very troubling to me and people in the city of Atlanta and folks I've talked to in Columbia, South Carolina, is how dismissive Senator Sanders' message is of the work that President Barack Obama has done.

[12:35:05] He talks about college affordability, but he never referenced how much President Obama and Democrats put on the line to remove $50 billion from the cost of college. He talks about universal health care, but he doesn't give enough credit to Barack Obama supported by Secretary Clinton providing healthcare at the highest levels that we have in the history of our country to more than 90% of the people, and adding 18 million newly ensured. So when you hear his rhetoric, Chris, you wonder what in the world has President Obama and the Democrats been doing, and sacrificing so much for?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So Jason, you first, how does Bernie Sanders respond to that?

JOHNSON: Well, you know, the big issue that Sanders has is that he has no response. He's been a senator since 2007. He has been in congress for almost 30 years and has almost no relationship with the congressional black caucus and many black leaders through the country, so they're not going to support him because they haven't seen him put in the work.

WHITFIELD: Donna?

BRAZILE: I can tell you this much, black voters not only respect the work that President Obama has done and all of his achievements but they're going to support someone who will not just protect that legacy but expand upon it, and that is something that I believe both candidates should understand.

WHITFIELD: So you see that as a big bonus that Hillary Clinton especially as a reason makes a lot of references to Obama's work and how she wants the opportunity to build on it.

BRAZILE: You know, 2008 was a historic campaign. It was a hard-fought race. At the end of the day, she lost and she threw not just her support behind Barack Obama but she campaigned, she raised money for him, and she served in his administration. If that doesn't tell you a lot about Hillary Clinton, I don't know what will.

WHITFIELD: OK let's hold that thought. Donna Brazile, Jason Johnson, coming up to talk more about Hillary Clinton and that narrow victory in Iowa, followed by a huge loss in New Hampshire. She is expected to win or should she expect to win in South Carolina? Especially, by courting the young African-American voters. Could that help? We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:49] WHITFIELD: All right welcome back. I am Fredricka Whitfield. Let's continue our discussion with our panel on the democratic fight for the African-American vote, in particular the minority youth vote now. We are back with our panel of Donna Brazile and Jason Johnson.

And as we mentioned earlier, both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are going hard after the black vote in South Carolina. Bernie Sanders in fact releasing an ad, featuring the daughter of Eric Garner. You might remember Garner died in 2014 after a New York police officer put him in a chokehold. Listen to the ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: When a police officer breaks the law, that officer must be held accountable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not scared to go up against the criminal justice system. He's not scared.

SANDERS: I want to see in America where when young black men walk down the street. They will not be harassed by police officers. They will not be killed. They will not be shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's why I'm for Bernie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right so let's talk about this ad and the bigger picture here, Jason, I want to begin with you because you wrote an article on theroot.com criticizing both candidates from barking on a Black Lives Matter endorsement primary that seems more about their political lives and the lives of black folks. So your reaction to that ad and what do you mean, because in any political season, isn't every candidate trying to target certain audiences, women vote, black vote, Hispanic vote, LBGT community. What's profound here in your view?

JOHNSON: Well first off, every family has a right to endorse whoever they want to endorse, right? But there's something -- I think really vulgar and disingenuous about going to families who have suffered horrible losses in the criminal justice system and through police and asking those people to come and endorse you. This is a larger problem, and let's be fair, whether it's the Garner family or Trayvon Martin's family or Michael Brown's family, they're not the only people to suffer for this kind of violence. So I think it's sort of a way for both the Hillary campaign and Sanders campaign to skirt past some real issues and just say, look we are supporting these families in tragedy, but that's not real policy.

WHITFIELD: So then Donna, is this a big risk that a the candidate takes? It can either go very well or it could simply flop and just as Jason said, some people might take offense to it.

BRAZILE: Well remember back in 1960, I hesitate to go back to another campaign, but president then candidate John F. Kennedy reached out to Coretta Scott King when Martin Luther king was in jail, so yes, symbolic politics has always been part of the narrative of reaching out to black voters. I am not surprised with that's old school as they say. But what's more relevant is that black voters, whether, you know, it's gang violence or, you know, police violence from police, they want to hear substantive, what are you going to do to change and improve our lives, like white voters, they want to hear the substance, not just the sound bites and symbolism.

WHITFIELD: All right Donna Brazile, Jason Johnson. We'll leave it there. We're not done because we're still -- we're going to be talking at this for a long time not just the week ahead of the South Carolina and democratic contest but throughout this whole political season for sure. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Republican presidential candidate John Kasich on the campaign trail now, just hours before he faces off in the GOP debate in Greenville, South Carolina. He is rallying support there in Mauldin, South Carolina.

Kasich has managed to keep a very low profile, squeaky clean campaign so far, that helped him in New Hampshire, but will it work in the South.

Let's talk about it with CNN's Phil Mattingly, live from Mauldin for us there.

So Phil, Kasich comes up very confident does he? And he really does likes to have face time, he likes to, you know, shake hands with people. He likes to be very personal. Is this the tone that people are embracing there in South Carolina?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, a viper pit was how one republican operative describe the state to me. So it's definitely going to be a different type of tone for the candidates as they come down here.

But if you listen behind me right now, John Kasich continuing on his very positive message, it's one he really worked hard in New Hampshire, and one he is going to continue down here.

Now he does have somehow, he has a super political action committee one of those outside groups with millions of dollars that are outside that are trying to kind of help blunt some of the negative criticism he has faced.

But one thing you recognize down here is that John Kasich doesn't think he's going to win South Carolina but does thinks his message could help him get a couple of delegates, something he can use to kind of propel him into midwestern states a couple of weeks from now, Fredricka. States where he needs to capitalize if he's going to continue his campaign going forward.

WHITFIELD: OK, and then immigration, what are you hearing from voters there in terms of what they want to hear from a candidate?

MATTINGLY: Well, it's an extremely sharp issue down here, Fredricka. And it's one that you're going to hear a lot about tonight at the debate. He have already seen a number of negative political ads on television down here, each trying to attack candidates for not being strong enough on protecting borders, for being willing to let immigrants into the country.

I think this is an area were candidates feel like Marco Rubio, the Florida senator who coming out of Iowa, he moved himself into the front running position, and could be exposed.

So Ted Cruz is also taking hits on this as well. So I think one thing you're going to recognize tonight, you're going to see tonight for sure, Fredricka, is that this will be an issue where people are going to try and be very sharp, very hard line.

[12:50:03] WHITFIELD: All right, Phil Mattingly, thank you so much in Mauldin, South Carolina there with John Kasich.

All right, the U.S. Department of Justice suing the city of Ferguson alleging constitutional violations. But the mayor says the federal government refused to negotiate ways to help them reform. So does the lawsuit reopen the investigation?

We'll talk about all of this with our legal guys, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The U.S. Justice Department is suing the city of Ferguson, Missouri after city council rejected an agreement to reform the police department. A lengthy federal investigation turned up alleged pattern and practice of unconstitutional police misconduct. And in an interviewer with NPR, Ferguson's mayor said, there never was an agreement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES KNOWLES, MAYOR, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Let me be very clear about this. There was no agreement. The only agreement was -- that we would take it before the people, a that we would take it before entire council for consideration.

Now, the Department of Justice asked us to sign an agreement before we took it public and we refused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about the fight Ferguson faces against the federal government with Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor. Good to see both of you.

[12:55:03] RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fred.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Good to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: OK, so Avery, you first. So this lawsuit, how do you see this playing out?

The Justice Department says it made it very clear this is the kind of police department reform that would be necessary, and now city council says we see otherwise, in fact even saying the residents of Ferguson have suffered the deprivation of their constitutional rights, the rights guaranteed to all Americans for decades. They have waited decades for justice.

FRIEDMAN: I don't know what they're talking about. The truth is that this is a 1994 law which congress enacted which authorize justice, bring pattern by some cases.

They don't bring a lawsuit, until they read the investigation, every cities in ...

(OFF-MIC)

FRIEDMAN: And the idea that the people in Ferguson, the officials are saying our rights are for black, seems really silly.

The best thing that you can do is -- policing, on sentencing, because you need to create a police force that complies with the constitution, and Fredricka, Ferguson does not.

WHITFIELD: So Richard, I mean was there room in this mandate from the justice department for city council to say "We'll see it differently?

HERMAN: Well, Fred, here's basically what happened. After the justifiable shooting of Michael Brown, the feds took an investigation against the city of Ferguson. And as a result of that investigation led by Attorney General Loretta Lynch right now from New York, they try to negotiate something to change the pattern and practice which they perceive to exist in Ferguson of constitutional and civil rights violations against 65 percent of the population, which is black in Ferguson, disproportionately prosecuting blacks.

So what happened was months and months of negotiation with the city of Ferguson, the government proposed and wanted to implement changes. The city of Ferguson says if we do those changes, you will further bankrupt us. It will be cost prohibitive. We cannot proceed with everything you want to put in place.

So in the end the government proposed a proposal, Ferguson rejected it, the government brought litigation. Fred, since Rodney King, the government has done 67 DOJ investigations for conduct like this. 66 of them have resulted in consent decrees, meaning the ...

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

HERMAN: Ferguson cannot win this case, Fred. And it's going to cost them $4 to $8 million to litigate.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Go ahead Avery.

FRIEDMAN: ... for solving this, right. The cost of defense is going to be no different from the cost of complying anything separate that's what's so silly about this.

And the federal government provides funding sources to local government so that you modernize for police recruiting and testing, make them a mockup police department. And they threw it away. Well, they're going to also have to deal with it.

WHITFIELD: So -- and I wonder, Richard, if this is Ferguson's way of thinking "Well, there's a year left in this president, and Loretta Lynch, you know, she may not be working as attorney general much longer than a year. And so they figure by delaying this. Perhaps it might go away and they don't have to comply? Is that what comes with this psychology?

HERMAN: Fred, what a great point. Absolutely. They're going to try to weigh this thing out a little bit, see if a new administration has a different feel for this. But ultimately, Fred, the case will be settled. It will be settled.

WHITFIELD: All right, we have to leave it there, gentleman. Thanks so much, Richard Herman, Avery Friedman, always good to see you guys. Thank you.

We will have much more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:12] WHITFIELD: Hello again everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.