Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia has died at the age of 79; Students at Arkansas State University are in a lockdown; Republican candidates vowed to stand in the way and once elected to elect a conservative in the mold of Scalia; George W. Bush o come out to support Jeb; Pope Francis is on the second full day of his historic trip to Mexico. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 14, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Scalia died in his sleep during a visit to a Texas hunting retreat. He was 79. Right now his body is at a funeral home in El Paso, Texas. The U.S. Marshals service is helping to arrange for his body to be returned to McLean, Virginia. While the cause of Scalia's death is still under investigation, officials say they have no reason to suspect anything other than natural causes.

As the nation reacts to Scalia's unexpected death, the immediate question is what it will mean for the U.S. Supreme Court and the cases the justices are reviewing right now. It also opens up the opportunity for a liberal majority on the bench under President Obama. Democratic appointees have not held the majority in the high court for more than 40 years.

Let's talk more about this with CNN Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein.

Good to see both of you.

So Ariane, you first. Explain how the other eight justices will move forward until a replacement is appointed and confirmed.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, since there are only eight justices on the court, there could be some cases coming up that are equally divided, 4-4. And that that will mean in this case and in this term where we are hearing major cases, there could be uncertainty. The cases concern abortion, affirmative action, the president's programs on immigration, all of those are in play. And if the court ends up being evenly undecided, there's going to be uncertainty. Now, the justices could hold off and not put down a decision right away, but then the question is when they will get to these cases and when will they have nine justices on the Supreme Court.

WHITFIELD: And of course, you know, it's going to be difficult to see in the crystal, Ron, whether they will continue on or will they wait because you have heard from the senate majority leader Mitch McConnell who says he doesn't think the president should even nominate. Don't even start the process. But the president was quick to respond saying he will appoint someone soon. This certainly does set the stage for an extraordinary battle, not just for the court and those cases but really for the relationship between the White House, Capitol Hill and the Supreme Court.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. No. Control of the Supreme Court has been important throughout the American history. But the way our politics is evolving has made it even more important. You know, we have only had unified control of the government in the past 12 of the 48 years. Only 12 of the past 48 years has one party controlled the house, the White House and the Senate. And one of the things we are seeing as a response to that is presidents pushing the boundaries of executive power as it has got harder and harder to have bipartisan agreement in Congress as it has got more polarized. You saw from President George W. Bush on national security. You see from President Obama on domestic issues like immigration and climate. You see this effort to kind of push the absolute boundary of executive authority.

One thing we have learned, Fredricka, is it is very hard for Congress to stop a president when he or she does that. It is, however, possible for the courts to do it and the courts have done it regularly to both men. Most recently, to President Obama on his climate plan. So who controls the court is even more and more important in an era where we have divided government and we seeing a less bipartisan legislation and more unilateral executive action.

WHITFIELD: But is that what it is really about that, you know, their accusations to the president has pushed the boundaries on executive power and that is what is setting the stage for Mitch McConnell to say, you know, we would prefer it if you don't nominate anyone? Or was this going to happen anyway?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I have no idea what is going to happen anyway. I mean, it is part of the underlying polarization in our politics. And it is two separate issue of whether it's appropriate to leave the court deliberately, you know, with lack of a full complement of justices for 11 months.

I mean, there is precedent for approving Supreme Court justices in an election year, most recently in 1998 when Anthony Kennedy appointed by Ronald Reagan was unanimously confirmed. There was also an example in 1968 when an attempt to elevate a (INAUDIBLE) was blocked. So this president on both sides.

But it would be an extraordinary -- it's an extraordinary statement, I think, for McConnell to say off the bat regardless of who it is we are simply not going -- it's not clear politically that they can hold to that position all year, particularly the Republicans are up this year in the purple and blue winning states.

WHITFIELD: And quickly, Ariane, isn't it an issue of time because the longest it's taken for confirmation was for Clarence Thomas and that was over 120 days. We have at least that, right, in the 11 months or 10 months, whichever way you want to look at it. So that is not the issue, is it?

DE VOGUE: No. And the numbers out there usually is about 61 days between the confirmation and the final vote. But with the climate going on now, that's unclear.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ariane De Vogue and Ron Brownstein, thanks so much to both of you. Appreciate it.

All right. In addition to his constitutional expertise and steadfast conservative values, Justice Antonin Scalia was also known for his impassioned personality and high energy.

I want to talk to someone who knew Justice Scalia personally, his former law clerk, Ed Whelan who is now the president of the Ethics and Public Policy center. Good to see you. Mr. Whelan.

[15:05:20] ED WHELAN, FORMER LAW CLERK FOR JUSTICE SCALIA: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So President Obama said last night said that Scalia had quote "a brilliant legal mind with an energetic style and decisive wit and colorful opinions." Tell us about your time as a clerk with Justice Scalia and what you observed about him.

WHELAN: Well, I certainly saw all those qualities in play during my one year of clerking for him. Justice Scalia is -- was a brilliant jurist. He worked really hard to get the answer right on each and every case. He demanded a lot of his clerks. He enjoyed vigorous argument. And he was a brilliant writer. It's wonderful to see how he could turn very deaf phrases that were not just colorful but actually provided insight into exactly what he was saying and why his legal analysis was correct. So he was a master. Law students will be reading his opinions for generations as long as American law is read and I think once we get beyond the political dispute of the moment, I think increasingly everyone will recognize his brilliance and wisdom.

WHITFIELD: And I also love to ask you about, you know, the friendship that he had with various people, particularly with Ruth Bader Ginsburg, polar opposite on the bench but they also called each other best buddies and the odd couple. Was he the type of person to be able to kind of set aside his political, you know, ideologies for the sake of his relationships because they are polar -- they are, you know, totally at different ends of ideological persuasions but then somehow they would come together.

WHELAN: Absolutely. I think you see that also with his friendship with justice Kagan. Look, Justice Scalia loved vigorous argument. He loved to have people contest him. He respected people who would engage him. He was fully capable of recognizing the good qualities of people with whom he disagreed on other things and I think you see that affability in his relationships.

WHITFIELD: He was very unique. Many have said, you know, he is one of a kind. But as the president either considers appointing someone, is it your hope that it would be someone of a similar persuasion, ideological approach, you know, to law?

WHELAN: Well, realistically, there's zero chance that this president would select anyone who is anything like a justice Scalia. That's why I fully support the statements by Republican senators saying this is a matter -- this matter is so important it ought to be decided by the people in November when they elect the next president.

Here we have a possibility of the court being dramatically entrenched on the left for a generation by the happenstance of an untimely death. It's too important to matter to leave to this president in his remaining months in office. So yes, there's zero chance that this president would nominate anyone who would be remotely like justice Scalia. You would see second amendments rights disappearing in an instant. First amendment rights would be in jeopardy. The very understanding of property rights would be in peril. So no chance that this president could get it ride.

WHITFIELD: Ed Whelan, thanks so much.

WHELAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Names are already being thrown around as potential replacements for Justice Scalia's seat.

Joining me right now is Sarah Wheaton, White House reporter for "Politico."

Good to see you, Sarah. So among the names, who?

SARAH WHEATON, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, we are seeing a couple of different choices. The top one that they are talking about is Sri Srinivasan. He is now a district appellate judge and was elected unanimously, 97-0. And so, it would be easy for the White House to point to him and say, look, Senators, you recently confirmed him to the court and why was he OK for the district court but not the Supreme Court.

Another option that we're hearing talk about is Jane Kelly and she also was approved unanimously for an appellate court seat. She's also from the state of Iowa originally which means that she has a relationship with Senator Grassley. He is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

WHITFIELD: The president has said, you know, right now is the time to honor justice Scalia but it is likely to happen sooner rather than later. You just heard from a variation of experts who say, you know, it's enough time in which to confirm a nominee with ten months, roughly, since it was Clarence Thomas who had the longest confirmation process of over 120 days. How do you suppose the timetable will impact the choice that the White House makes?

[15:10:16] WHEATON: Well, it is definitely fair to say that the White House is eager to have this fight. There are probably already people on the short list, as we mentioned, not necessarily 100 percent ready to go but people who have been relatively vetted still need to go through the White House counsel's office and through the department of justice.

But the White House is very eager to keep the president, part of the conversation and the emergence of this battle over whether the Senate will even have a hearing for the nominee, really, will allow them to be out front and center and calling the Senate obstructionists if they don't hold these hearings. And even if do hold the hearings, it's unlikely that we will see a person put through. But the White House will be able to say, look, the Republicans are obstructionists. We have put forward probably a kind of a middle of the road, a very reasonable person, or at least somebody that they can make a claim falls under that category and they can say, look, Democrats, this is why you need to get out to the polls. Put in a Democratic president to secede President Obama and put in Democratic Senators to confirm the next choice.

WHITFIELD: Sarah Wheaton, thanks so much. Appreciate.

More now on breaking news coming up next. Reports of gunmen on the campus of Arkansas State University. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:34] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Breaking news right now. Students at Arkansas State University are in a lockdown after reports of two men with guns on the campus. The campus is located at Jonesboro, Arkansas. This is a campus of about 20,000 students. The school is telling students on its website to get to safe places.

Jonesboro police tell CNN that no shots have been fired and they have not located any suspects.

Joining me right now on the phone is CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

And so, Tom, while everyone on campus is being asked to stay in a safe place while that's happening, give us an idea of what you think campus security, Jonesboro police are doing to try to find the gunmen and try to secure the campus.

[15:15:24] TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (on the phone): Well, I think, Fredricka, you know, finding the gunmen is priority number one because it may not be a truthful report, it could be a hoax, it could be someone spotting, you know, plain-cloths police officers. So we don't know if this is actually a threatening situation or there actually are two armed men on this campus. So that's a problem.

Secondly, I wonder at the moment what is going on on that campus that needs to be locked down, you know, on a Sunday afternoon. Are they having a basketball game, a sports event, a conference? Who would be on that campus right now compared to a normal school day or school evening? But I think that trying to verify the story and trying to find the source of the report would be probably the very first priority.

WHITFIELD: And you know, parents who are hearing this, of course, their kids attend that school, some of them living on campus, what do they need to do with this kind of information given that it's very vague information and when you look at the Web site it says two men with weapons but then if you look at what they have sent out via twitter and then other reports, it goes so far as saying guns or weapon. So how do parents process this kind of information?

FUENTES: Well, I think it's very difficult to process when you have conflicting information and, you know, nothing more specific than that. You know, it's a campus area and a surrounding town area. It's going to be a large area and by the time a report like that goes out, whoever was spotted could have driven off, could have walked away, could have gone into a building. So it creates a situation for the local residents and other people on the campus to really be in a difficult if not impossible situation. You know, do you go into hiding for the rest of the day, the rest of the week? What exactly can they really do at this point when you have no true description of who the people were supposedly carrying these weapons and in which direction they were going and what they appeared to be doing? So this is a very vague report. And I think they are going to have a difficult time even confirming the authenticity of the report.

WHITFIELD: All right. Tom Fuentes, thank you so much. We'll check back with you.

All right. We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:31] WHITFIELD: Welcome back. This breaking news we continue to follow, students at Arkansas State University are on lockdown after reports of at least two men carrying weapons on campus. The campus is located at Jonesboro, Arkansas. This is a campus of about 20,000 students. The school is telling students on its Web site to get to a safe place. Jonesboro police tell CNN no shots have been fired and they have not located any suspects.

Joining me right now on the phone is Melanie Bedner Bale. She is a student at Arkansas State University.

And I understand, Melanie, you're not on the campus right now but perhaps you can give me an idea of the layout of the campus. We were told according to the Arkansas State University twitter and your web site, saying that these two men with weapons were reported near the student union. So where is the student union in relation to I guess other common places areas of gathering for students?

MELANIE BEDNER BALE, STUDENT, ARKANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY (on the phone): Well, the student union for us is pretty much the center of campus as far as it contains the dining hall. It's very close to a lot of the dorms. University hall, which has a lot of the female freshmen in it. It is one of the main dorms for younger students. So very close to that. Very close to a senior level apparent-style dorms. So pretty much close the main area of campus.

WHITFIELD: OK. And on a Sunday, what kind of traffic is there usually?

BALE: Well, it's just going to vary. A lot of kids go home but the freshmen tend to stay. So it's going to be a little bit heavier but with it being Valentine's Day, it's kind of questionable. But I would say the ding hall at this hour is going to be pretty busy if they are open at these hours on a holiday. It just kind of varies but would say a pretty decent amount of students are there right now being that it's Sunday afternoon. This is when a lot of people come back from visiting home.

WHITFIELD: Have you talked to any of your fellow students who might be on campus in their dorms expressing what they are feeling like, what they are thinking?

BALE: Well, fortunately, all of my friends are at home or on their way back from home today. So it's just a blessing for them that they are not there right now. But, I know, we've been kind of a shocked campus quite some time now since the other incident happened and it's really fresh wounds for a lot of people.

WHITFIELD: And would you describe this campus as one that is very open, meaning it's very accessible for people even if they don't necessarily attend the state university?

BALE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. As you come towards the student union, you can pretty much drive down the main road and get to the student union. It's almost like a circular drive from the front area so if you're touring ASU or anything like that, you'll come through the circle drive and you can see straight into the student union. So if you just want to know - I mean, it's a very easily accessible campus and then parking, of course, there's a parking garage. Anybody that wants to ask pay to park.

WHITFIELD: All right. Melanie Bedner Bale, thank you so much for your time. Let us know if you hear anything further from your fellow students there on campus.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:51] WHITFIELD: Welcome back. Justice Scalia's death and the battle for his replacement on the bench loomed large over last night Republican debate in South Carolina. '

CNN's Ryan Nobles has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A moment of silence for Justice Antonin Scalia.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It did not take long for the death of the Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia to get political in the Republican primary presidential debate.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's up to Mitch McConnell and everybody else to stop it. It's called delay, delay, delay.

NOBLES: One by one, the GOP candidates paid homage to the conservative lion and predicted that any Obama nominee to replace whim would be unsuccessful.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's no doubt in my mind that Barack Obama will not have a consensus pick when he submits that person to the Senate.

NOBLES: But President Obama l pushing forward, promising to nominate someone quickly and warning Senate Republicans not to play politics with the court.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There will be plenty of time for me to do so and for the Senate to fulfill its responsibility to give that person a fair hearing and a timely vote. These are responsibilities that I take seriously, as should everyone.

NOBLES: Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell called on the president to wait and leave the decision in the quote "hands of the voters" and the winner of the race for the White House.

Rank and file Republicans like Lindsey Graham said any Obama nominee will have a tough time being confirmed.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The practical consequences that no one will be appointed that's not a consensus choice.

NOBLES: And as the president and Senate leaders squabble, it will be against a backdrop of an increasingly divisive presidential election. Hillary Clinton rushed to support Obama's right to push the nominee and pushed the Senate to confirm.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is outrageous that Republicans in the Senate and on the campaign trail have already pledged to block any replacement that president Obama nominates.

NOBLES: The Republican candidates vowed to stand in the way and once elected to elect a conservative in the mold of Scalia.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of the most important decisions to make is who on this stage has the background, the principle, the character, the judgment and strength of resolve to nominate and confirm principled constitutionalists to the core. That will be I would be what I will do if I am elected president.

[15:30:09] NOBLES: Setting the stage for a rocky few months in Washington with the future of the Supreme Court and the White House in the ball.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: That was Ryan Nobles reporting.

So the battle lines are also being drawn in Congress over who the next Supreme Court justice will be. Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell wasting no time in saying that he wants President Obama to wait on naming a replacement to bring it to whoever wins the next election saying quote "the American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," end quote.

Ron Brownstein is CNN senior political analyst Margaret Hoover is a CNN political commentator and Republican consultant. Good to see both of you.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: So Margaret, you first. Mitch McConnell says it's the American people who should have a vote in this. Didn't they already do that by electing President Obama? And in his four years, he has a right to appoint the Supreme Court justice if the opportunity arises. Aren't we at that juncture?

HOOVER: Certainly it seems as though we are. And look. Mitch McConnell didn't fire that tweet off quite quickly yesterday. And I think there are several Republicans who are scratching their heads wondering what happens to those seven Republican Senate seats that are in states that President Obama won in 2012. People like Ron Johnson in Wisconsin, Mark Kirk in Illinois, Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire, Patrick Toomey in Pennsylvania. These are blue states who Senate seat that Republicans are going to hold the Senate, we need to win those seats. A prolonged battle over a Supreme Court nominee because the Republican Congress refuses or Senate refuses to vote on a nomination would be setting the battle lines in a way I think that would fall quite unfavorably for Republicans holding the Senate.

WHITFIELD: So then a lot at stake, Ron. Why wouldn't those on the campaign trail right now for the White House see that as well?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, because I think they feel like the base will demand, you know, absolute struggle against any opportunity for the president to make an appointment. You know, there's two separate issues confronting the Republicans here. One is the one that Margaret alluded to which is particularly in blue and purple states where they have to defend Senate seats, will it look like an abdication of responsibility or just an irresponsible escalation of partisan hostilities to not to blanketly refuse to consider any nominee.

But the other issue I think is more subtle. I mean, if you look across the board at polling now, Republicans are in a better position on the economy and national security than they are on culture. And you know, right now there's a lot of Americans who have mixed feeling or questions about whether President Obama approaches produce prosperity or security. But Democrats do have a majority on many of the key cultural issues that are going to be coming before the court in the years ahead, such as - or has such as gay marriage and do Republicans want a presidential election in which control of the court and the direction of public policy on cultural issues is moved as front and center as it would have if this nomination is held up all the way to the election year.

WHITFIELD: And it is right now front and center particularly on the campaign trail, Margaret.

HOOVER: It is because of the unfortunate passing of Justice Scalia and we saw all of the candidates pay homage to him last night. You know, it sort of shocks me that Donald Trump didn't take the opportunity to say that he would appoint justices in the mold of justice Scalia like Ted Cruz. That could have taken care of a couple problem force him.

But truly - I mean -- that was a joke. This really has reset the tables in terms of how the candidates are campaigning, what's going to happen, whether anything happens in the Senate over the course of the next 300 days and Republicans just -- I hope they, Fred, carefully because we have partisan brinkmanship does not serve us well when it comes to national elections. And while we're in the middle of a primary right now, the failure to see forward and think about the general election could end up damaging whoever our nominee is.

WHITFIELD: And then Ron, while there is time, when you look at the calendar, there is time for an appointment and conceivably maybe even confirmation given the calendars that we're talking. Do you think that also means that there is time, whether it be Mitch McConnell or others who have been in opposition of the president making an appointment to change their minds?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look. I think it really will come down to those Republican senators from a more swing states and whether they are willing to accept a blockade of any nominee. Now, you know, just getting a vote on a nominee doesn't guarantee that the Republican Senate will approve that nominee or there could be 60 votes to break the filibuster. But the current position of that is simply not going to it. I thought (INAUDIBLE) framed the question very well last night. What is the cutoff date at which you say it's illegitimate for the sitting president to nominate someone to the Supreme Court?

Certainly we saw Anthony Kennedy nominate in late 1987, but approved in 1988 by a Democratic Senate. In 1940, Franklin Roosevelt, another election year, nominated a Supreme Court justice approved by the Senate. So what is the date and on what basis are you choosing that date?

By the way, real quick, Fred, a real wildcard here hasn't talk about. Ted Cruz supports a constitutional amendment to force Supreme Court justices to face a reelection, a public referendum on whether they get to stay on the court every eight years. I wonder if he is going to be asked that now in the wake of this vacancy.

[15:35:36] WHITFIELD: All right, Ron Brownstein and Margaret Hoover good to see both of you. Appreciate it. Hope to see you in South Carolina next Saturday as well.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Later on in the week, CNN will host two Republican presidential town hall events in South Carolina. All six Republican candidates will participate. Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, all appearing on Wednesday night. And on Thursday, Donald Trump, Jeb Bush and John Kasich will be appearing. Both of them hosted by CNN's Anderson Cooper and will take place live at 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

The town halls will give South Carolina voters an opportunity to question the candidates directly. And of course, the passing of this U.S. Supreme Court justice Scalia will also be addressed during that time. The Republican presidential town halls on Wednesday and Thursday at 8:00 p.m. eastern time right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:08] WHITFIELD: All Right. Welcome back. George W. Bush was not last night's Republican debate but the former president's legacy was front and center and in the crossfire. Take a listen to this heated exchange between Marco Rubio, Donald Trump and Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: George W. Bush enforced what the international community refused to do and again, he kept us safe and I am forever grateful to what he did for this country.

TRUMP: How did he keep us safe in the world trade center? The world -- excuse me. I lost hundreds of friends. The world trade center came down during the reign -- he kept us safe? That is not safe, Marco. That is not safe.

RUBIO: The world trade center came down because Bill Clinton did not kill Osama bin Laden when he had a chance to kill him.

TRUMP: And George Bush -- by the way, George Bush had the chance, also, and he did not listen to the advice of his CIA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Dr. Carson, we have a --

BUSH: Can I just -- I'm not going to invite Donald Trump to the rally in Charleston on Monday afternoon. I'm rescinding the invitation. I thought you might want to come, but I guess not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. That rally that Jeb Bush was talking about is his brother, George's campaign appearance in North Charleston tomorrow. The former president will make his first public campaign appearance since leaving office for Jeb on Monday afternoon.

Let's talk about this with Illinois congressman Adam Kinziger who also happens to be the chair for Jeb's presidential campaign in Illinois. Good to see you.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER, (R), ILLINOIS: Good to be here. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right. So this is the former president's first campaign appearance for his brother. Why here and why now?

KINZINGER: Well, look, South Carolina loves George W. Bush. I think Trump made a huge miscalculation last night. He doesn't know his audience. And you know, he was just bullying around and that's what he does normally.

But South Carolina is great place for George W. to come out to support Jeb to talk about defense, talk about veterans issues. It is huge veterans population out here. And you know, Jeb has 12 living Medal of Honor recipient that have endorsed him. So people are really excited. I think it's going to be fantastic opportunity on Monday for people to hear from President Bush and talk about why he thinks Jeb would be the next best president of the United States.

WHITFIELD: So, is it a prelude of more to come? We saw, you know, Jeb's mom, Barbara Bush in New Hampshire campaigning on his behalf and now his brother, former president George W. Bush in Charleston, South Carolina. Will we see more Bushes in more state, primary states and caucuses?

KINZINGER: You know, you may. I know President Bush is a busy man. But, look, people love the Bush family. In Republican circles, they are very popular. So if you have these assets which is a great family name and a member of the family, it's great to use them.

You know, I think what's obvious, though, is when George W. comes here and when Jeb's mom comes here and speak when she was in New Hampshire, you see a positive vision and it's contrasted with what you saw last night on the stage from Donald Trump, really, his bully tactics, his third grade thin skin appeal that he has where if somebody boos, he gets all angry.

I sat in that audience and it was -- it blew my mind that a man who thinks he can be president of the United States has such thin skin that he can't take an audience member booing him. It's really unbelievable.

WHITFIELD: And you know, you call it the assets of having, you know, Barbara Bush or George W. Bush campaigning on behalf of Jeb Bush. But at first, was the message being conveyed at Jeb Bush though that his family would be a liability and that he seem to be working very hard at the start of his campaigning to distance himself from his brother, his brother's legacy and really from the Bush name by just having a slogan Jeb?

KINZINGER: Yes. I think that was important to do. I think it was important for Jeb to say, look, I have my own record. I know there's been a couple of Bush presidents prior but I'm very well accomplished and I want to take that record and not just say what I've done but talk about how I want to lead people out of the difficulties that we find ourselves in today. And so he developed that. People see that Jeb is his own guy and now bring out the big guns. You have some great folks that are related to you that did great things for this country, that kept us safe after the greatest terrorist attack in this country's history, at least since Pearl Harbor. And so bring them out. But I think it's going to be a great day on Monday. I think President Bush is going to rally the troops here and we're going to win South Carolina. We feel really good about it.

WHITFIELD: OK. Thank you so much, congressman Adam Kinzinger.

KINZINGER: You bet.

WHITFIELD: Enjoy your time there in South Carolina. KINZINGER: It's warm. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it is warm.

All right. Next, more information now on this breaking news. We have been telling you about this lockdown taking place at Arkansas State University. Well, now it has been lifted. No longer a threat. Earlier the university security campus there -- campus security told people to stay in a safe place. Now that lockdown is being lifted at the Arkansas State University there in Jonesboro.

All right, we will have much more straight ahead right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:49:01] WHITFIELD: Welcome back.

The passing of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia sets up an interesting selection of his successor and the timetable of the upcoming election. Some in Congress made point a little know and an unwritten rule in the halls of the capitol. Some call it the Thurmond rule. The former South Carolinian senator Strom Thurmond namesake is on that. And a rule that could be pointed to right now as a reason to delay the selection of a new justice until next year.

Joining me right now is attorney Paige Pate in Atlanta and in New York, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.

All right, Paul, let me begin with you. Because while Strom Thurmond gets his name on it, it really is a practice that is -- can be very commonly used on Capitol Hill. Lawmakers will delay things but to delay a potential confirmation of an appointment by the White House for months but for as much as a year? How unusual and precedented might that be?

[15:50:01] PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it is very unusual to see that level of delay except in one area and that area is the appointment of judges. We have seen historically and we have seen particularly during the Obama administration with a Republican Congress that frequently opposes him on judicial appointments, we have seen substantial delays in the appointment of judges across the United States. So it's not going to surprise me at all if the Republicans stall this appointment, especially given its importance.

WHITFIELD: And then Page, how disruptive is it to have a delay, which would mean on certain cases it would be a 4-4 ruling and then it would have to go back to a lower court, you know, for a final ruling?

PAGE PATE, ATTORNEY: Well, and the vast majority of cases it doesn't necessarily matter. Because many cases that go before the Supreme Court, they can get a decision without going to all nine members. In other words, it is rarely a 5-4 split. But for those cases split that were split 5-4, the conservatives versus the liberals we are going to have some problems. Either the case will go back and they will simply affirm what the court below them did or they will hold on to the case and then submit it for re-argument once they finally get a replacement justice.

WHITFIELD: And what does this potentially mean for cases that have been ongoing that Justice Antonin Scalia had already weighed in on, you know, they weren't cases close? We are talking about like affirmative action case. There is an abortion case. Also, what does it doing if the progress of these cases?

PATE: People are disagreeing. I have heard some constitutional scholars say, well, that simply mean they are going to send it back and affirm the lower court decision. But I have also heard other scholars, and there has some historical present for this, say let's just hold on to this case. Let's wait until we get a new justice. We can reargue it. We can go back in to conference and make a decision with a (INAUDIBLE).

WHITFIELD: And so, Paul, would it be of your thinking that any opinions that justice Scalia may have imposed on those ongoing cases would be thrown out or would it also be still considered and picked up by whatever next justice there could be this there to weigh in.

CALLAN: Well, you know, the mechanics about it are pretty simple. And that is that you have to have a majority in order to win your position in the Supreme Court. So if it was a 5-4 decision with Scalia casting the fifth vote and now it becomes a 4-4 split, when there's a 4-4 split, normally the ruling of the lower court is upheld. Now, that can cut both ways if it was a liberal ruling by the lower court, the liberal ruling is going to stay in place. If it was a conservative ruling by the lower court that is going to stay in place.

So to a certain extent, these decisions are going to go both ways. It's hard to predict in other words. His original vote, really, will have no impact at all because if for some reason it gets kicked over to term for argument with a new justice it would depend what kind of justice was appointed and that would be a liberal or conservative, no way of knowing.

The other - the one other thing I just want to throw on the table is Kennedy who, used to be put in the conservative line, has voted with the liberals almost 50 percent of the time in 5-4 decisions. So I think you kind of have a court now where you have three solid liberals, three solid conservatives and you have Kennedy in the middle kind of leaning liberal. So it might be more of a liberal court already even before a presidential appointment.

WHITFIELD: All right. Page, real quick. Do you think it has impose new pressure on those existing eight?

PATE: Absolutely. Because we have some really hot topics coming before the Supreme Court. We have affirmative action. We have immigration. We even possibly have a death penalty case that may work its way up to the court.

So I think there will be a lot of pressure. I think the court wants to move forward. I think the people want to move forward. You know, we have heard a lot of discussions about let the voters decide about the next Supreme Court justice but the constitution gives the authority to the president. And the president has a year left - so I hope we are going to see an appointment. I hope we are going to see a confirmation process, but politics are politics.

WHITFIELD: All right, Page Pate, Paul Callan, thanks so much, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:57:044] WHITFIELD: All right. Right now Pope Francis is on the second full day of his historic trip to Mexico. A short time ago, tens of thousands of people joined the Pope for mass in a notoriously dangerous suburb just outside of Mexico City. The Pope is also visiting a children's hospital this afternoon.

Let's bring in CNN correspondent Shasta Darlington who was in Mexico City for it.

So Shasta, what's the significance of today's mass?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, to start with, it was surprisingly political. Pope Francis lashed out what he called the temptations of health, fame and power. He got emotional when he told parishioners you can't dialogue with the devil because he always wins. But it was in the final angelus but he was very direct and he said, you know, listen, we need to be building a Mexico of opportunity, not one that destroys its young people in a reference to immigration and drug wars. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER (through translator): I want to invite you today, again, to be on the front line to be the first in all initiatives that help make this blessed land of Mexico a land of opportunities where there will be no need to emigrate in order to dream, no need to be exploited in order to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DARLINGTON: His message certainly went down well with the people at the sermon. (INAUDIBLE) as you mentioned that is scrolling suburb, notoriously dangerous and notoriously poor. In fact, the pontiff's decision to go there ruffled more than a few feathers basically because he is shining a light on some of Mexico's worst social and political problems. The people, however, were absolutely thrilled. No pontiff had been there before. Hundreds of thousands turned out to line the papal route just to trying to catch a glimpse of him as he drove by, Fredricka. Some of them even spent the night.

WHITFIELD: What an incredible journey for everyone involved there.

All right, Shasta Darlington, thank you so much.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

JUSTICE ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT: I, Antonin Scalia, do solemnly swear --.

WHITFIELD: Remembering Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)