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Battle Erupts Over Scalia Replacement; George W. Bush to Campaign in South Carolina with Jeb; Trump Attacks Bush Legacy at Debate; Pope Francis Makes an Appeal to Mexico. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 15, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for stopping by. It was fun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time.

COSTELLO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: The next CNN -- the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, 43 is back.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a proud brother of George W. Bush.

COSTELLO: Former president George W. Bush hitting the campaign trail for the first time in more than a decade.

J. BUSH: My brother will help a lot.

COSTELLO: Will he give Jeb's campaign a jolt?

Plus, the death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia sparking a fierce political battle.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mitch McConnell has already made it clear we are not moving forward on any nominees in the Senate until after the election and I agree with him.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a conservative person.

COSTELLO: What is at stake? Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

The 2016 election has been transformed. An epic battle is erupting between Democrats and Republicans. Yes, another one. And the outcome of the country's biggest legal cases may be forever altered.

The blockbuster change is all -- the blockbuster change, as I should say, is coming as a result of the sudden death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia who passed away on Saturday. President Obama wants to nominate Scalia's successor before a new president is elected.

The Republicans aren't happy. They are vowing to fight the president every step of the way. That's why you're seeing headlines like this today, "Supreme Showdown in the Works," that's on the front of the "Los Angeles Times." And today's "New York Times'" headline reads Senate Republicans dig in over naming next justice.

I want to bring in CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns. He's at the Supreme Court. Our senior political reporter Manu Raju is live, too, on the political battle. He's in Washington. And CNN Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue on what's next.

But let's begin with you, Joe Johns. When might the president suggest a nominee?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Anybody's guess, quite frankly, Carol. Now he has said he's going to make it in due time. It could be any time from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Still likely to come during his term. And you know, this is President's Day. And presidents get four-year terms. So it's totally within his rights and some would say his obligations to go ahead and put up a nominee. The question is just what Republicans on Capitol Hill are going to do with that since they control the Senate -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, I'll pose that question to Manu. Republicans are likely to block any nominee and they can delay, delay, delay if they want to because they control the Senate.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And that's what Mitch McConnell signaled when he issued that statement on Saturday. Now what he said in that statement was that the next president should actually nominate the replacement, but he did not say that he would deny a vote at all costs. That is still a question. Now it's unlikely a vote will happen. But he has not explicitly said so yet.

Similarly the Senate Judiciary Committee would have the first crack at taking up that nomination, and the chairman of that committee, Chuck Grassley, also said the next president should nominate the next Supreme Court justice, but Grassley has not said yet whether or not he would not hold any hearings or whether there'll be a vote in the committee. That's going to be a focal point going forward.

Now when I've talked to members -- other members, Republican members, they are looking very closely at the spate of vulnerable Republicans. Watch them. The ones who are up for reelection in key states. If they start to buckle and start to demand a vote, that could change the calculus. But Republicans also believe this works well politically, that it could rally the base and they could tell voters that they are the firewall against a liberal justice. So both sides see a political win in the positions that they're taking.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Ariane, I have in my hand a list of possible replacements for Antonin Scalia. Is there not one name on this list that would be acceptable to both parties?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's difficult to tell. Right. It's difficult to tell. It's a little bit early. And there are lists. But what's interesting about it is while the political branches are debating about the future of the Supreme Court, the current court actually still has a ton of work to do. They've got these big cases in front of them, affirmative action, abortion, immigration, and now they've only got eight justices to deal with it, and all this political that could cause delay, that might cause them to either issue a 4-4 opinion which doesn't really do anything or hold the cases over until next term, and then you've got to wonder how long it will be until they have nine justices again.

One of the top names as you've seen is a judge, Sri Srinivasan. He was unanimously confirmed. So you'd think that that might aid his cause but with this political climate, it's difficult to tell.

COSTELLO: So, Manu, is Ariane essentially saying it really doesn't matter who President Obama nominates even if that person is acceptable to the other side, that the Republicans are what? How should we characterize that?

[10:05:11] RAJU: Well, I mean, that will be the challenge. If they do -- if the president does come out and nominate a more mainstream, moderate justice, someone -- a judicial nominee, someone who is viewed as well-qualified, it will be much harder for Republicans to deny them a vote at all cost.

Now the Republicans are already saying that, look, this is -- would be rather unprecedented in 80 years, some odd years we have not seen a situation like this. Certainly there was Justice Kennedy was confirmed in an election year 1988 but he was nominated in 1987. So both sides will use the political argument going forward. But the Republicans feel they're on pretty firm ground even if they do get bashed in the media or by Democrats.

They feel that the argument will be pretty -- will be pretty sound going forward and the Republican voters in particular will rally to their defense.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Ariane de Vogue, Joe Johns, Manu Raju, thanks to all of you.

43 will ride to the rescue today in South Carolina. Tonight George W. Bush will be at his brother's side at a campaign rally. So will Laura Bush. Jeb's run has become a family affair. The ads already out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know Jeb . I know his good heart and his strong backbone. Jeb will unite our country. He knows how to bring the world together against terror. Experience and judgment count in the Oval Office. Jeb Bush is a leader who will keep our country safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Donald Trump already tweeting about this. He tweeted this morning, quote, "Funny that Jeb didn't want help from his family in his failed campaign and didn't even want to use his last name, then mommy, now brother."

Athena Jones live in north Charleston, South Carolina, with more on this. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is a whole new stage in the race for Jeb Bush. I mean, you heard Trump mentioned, we've all noticed that this is someone who doesn't even use his last name in his logo. It's just Jeb, exclamation point. From the beginning of his campaign he's talked about running as his own man, but now after finishing in sixth place in Iowa and in fourth place in New Hampshire, his campaign is really hoping he can have a strong showing here in South Carolina.

That's why they're bringing out the -- perhaps the biggest gun of all, George W. Bush, who is very popular among Republicans.

Take a listen to what Jeb Bush said on "STATE OF THE UNION" yesterday. He talked about what he expects his brother's message to be at the rally later on tonight. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. BUSH: If the point is, is he a popular Republican? You bet he is. He will make the point, I think, I hope, tomorrow that he knows what it takes to be president of the United States, to be commander-in- chief, to keep the country safe, and that he believes that I have those skills based on my record and based on how he knows me, and that will be an incredible validator in South Carolina where values matter and where national defense matters a lot. So I'm looking forward to the event. We should have a great crowd. And it'll help my campaign a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So that's the question. Will it help his campaign a lot? As I mentioned, George W. Bush is very popular among Republicans, and both W and his father won the primary here in South Carolina. Still in that same interview with "STATE OF THE UNION" Jeb Bush said that he only hopes to beat expectations here. He didn't spell out what place that would put him in, but if you talk to Bush aides, they argue that he only has to do best among the electable candidates. They don't count Trump or Ted Cruz among the electable candidates.

For his part, we've seen Trump on Twitter this morning. He has tweeted that it's Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz who are not the electable presidential candidates saying Hillary Clinton will destroy them. And then he also tweeted a little while after that, now that George Bush is campaigning for Jeb, is it fair game for questions about the World Trade Center, the Iraq war, and the economic collapse? Careful. So we can expect to hear a lot from Donald Trump about what goes on here tonight -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones reporting live from North Charleston, South Carolina. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, we will parse this out. Will George W. Bush really help his brother on the trail? Will it be an effective move on Jeb Bush's part? We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:13:28] COSTELLO: Jeb Bush is embracing his family now. His brother George W will campaign for him in Charleston tonight. But Jeb's strategy could carry some risk. Listen to what Donald Trump said at Saturday's debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: George Bush made a mistake. We can make mistakes but that one was a beauty. We should have never been in Iraq. We have destabilized the Middle East.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you still think he should be impeached?

J. BUSH: I think it's my turn, isn't it?

TRUMP: You do whatever you want. You call it whatever you want. I want to tell you, they lied.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

TRUMP: They said there were weapons of mass destruction. There were none. And they knew there were none.

(CROSSTALK)

J. BUSH: I am sick and tired of him going after my family. My dad is the greatest man alive in my mind. And while --

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

J. BUSH: While Donald Trump was building a reality TV show, my brother was building a security apparatus to keep us safe. And I'm proud of what he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Trump backtracked a bit from his 9/11 accusations. He accused George Bush of causing 9/11. But since he's, like, you know, softened the blow, but it's difficult to take words back as you know.

With me now to talk about this, conservative radio talk show host and CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen.

Welcome to both of you.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So, Ben, is this a good thing that Jeb Bush is doing?

FERGUSON: I think it is. I think he should have done it a long time ago. I mean, the way that Republicans and conservatives look at George Bush 43, they like him and they understand how much of a president he was for them, specifically looking at what Barack Obama has done over the last eight years.

[10:15:05] And I don't think that Jeb's campaign was smart early on. They should have embraced the legacy. They tried to make him his own unique candidate. And I understand the reasoning behind that but ultimately bringing out not only his mom but now his brother I think is a very smart move in South Carolina. And I also think these attacks the other night by Donald Trump were really -- it was an emotional attack. It was a bad decision, a bad move to blame George Bush for 9/11 and to say that he's a liar. I just don't think that connects well with South Carolina voters.

COSTELLO: But, David, the Iraq war is considered, even among Republicans, a mistake. So could George W actually hurt Bush in the long run?

GERGEN: I don't think so, Carol. And after all, listen, the South Carolina primary is only a few days away, and George W. Bush could give Jeb the lift he absolutely needs. He has to do well in South Carolina. It's been a good state for the Bushes. And I think particularly on President's Day it's a good time to reintroduce the Bush family. South Carolina voters have been voting for Bushes for 36 years, since George Bush Senior went into campaign against Reagan.

Now Reagan won that. But in the years since, the Bush family has done very, very well, father, son, and now brother. We'll have to see about the brother. But I think it's wise to bring his brother in. He's got to do something to electrify and lift here in these last days, and listen, so is there a risk, yes. But there's a much bigger risk in not doing it. I think what I agree with Ben, it might well have been better if he had done this a lot earlier. It worked in New Hampshire.

COSTELLO: We'll see. So, Ben, just a question for you. I know South Carolina is a big military state. But why do South Carolinian like the Bush family and like George W. Bush, in particular? What is it about him?

FERGUSON: Because I think they felt that George Bush 43 and even 41 always had their back. The military like a commander-in-chief that understands and supports them and they've always felt the support from the Bush family. A lot of people that I know that signed up after 9/11, a lot of my good friends signed up. They did it because they trusted the president and they thought that he was going to go after these terrorists and try to keep America safe to make sure it never happened again.

Looking at history now, he did a great job of keeping us safe, and the military, I think, understood that war and why we were going to war and why we were going after terrorists. And states that sponsored terrorism. And they're going to remember that and they're going to remember that family for a very long time. So in South Carolina, I think it's an extremely smart play there, especially with so many military members and retirees that spend, you know, they're out of the military service, they retire there.

COSTELLO: That's right. And they retire in Charleston, South Carolina. Go ahead, David.

GERGEN: Yes, I think there are cultural issues at play here as well. South Carolina is a deep south state in many ways. And so the kind of culture that George W. Bush came to represent plays well in South Carolina. Very conservative. You know, very independent. A little honoree. He's also got some charisma that they like. So I think all that worked well for him.

And there's also, remember, that South Carolina was one of the states that had something of a patrician legacy for a long, long time. Still plays out there. So that people are very proud, and they look up to families. It's a state where big family, important families have a lot of sway just as in Texas. So I think there's a lot of natural connections that work here especially with George W. that voters relate to him very well there in South Carolina.

COSTELLO: Interesting. I want to switch gears for just a second, Ben, and talk about Justice Scalia's death, and what his death -- what effect his death will have on the Republican race.

FERGUSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: So tell me what do you think. What effect will it have?

FERGUSON: Well, two things here. One I think that it's very obvious that the candidates running are making it clear that they want to fight, and they want this election to be about the next person that puts him on the Supreme Court, especially to replace the most conservative justice, Justice Scalia, on the Supreme Court. He is one that is known by a lot of voters as being a stalwart for conservative constitutional values and they want this campaign to be about that.

They also understand, and voters pay attention, when you're talking about the balance of the court and the balance right now has been 5-4 more conservative, even though President Obama has had some big wins there, 4-5 decisions in his favor, that people may have been shocked by. So this is a campaign issue. They want to make sure that the next president picks it, and they're willing to fight for it. And I think it's a smart move politically for all the candidates and also Republicans that are up for reelection in the Senate. They're going to want to run on this as well.

COSTELLO: And, David, could there be -- you know, we've heard Senate Republicans want to delay, delay, delay. They don't want President Obama to nominate anyone until a new president is elected. Could that backfire on them, that strategy?

[10:20:00] GERGEN: Yes. I think there's a definite risk involved here. We don't know how this is going to play out. It's going to be an epic battle because for the first time that I can remember we have a presidential election coming that is going to shape the future not only of the White House but of the Senate of the United States and of the Supreme Court. It's not only the Scalia seat that will be in play here. There are going to be three justices in the term -- the next president is going to have three justices in their 80s. And, you know, one or more of them may also decide to retire. We'll have to wait and see.

But, you know, I do think this is a -- going to be a big battle and how you play your cards here matters. The president is going to nominate someone. If he can find someone who is appealing to the country that's going to put more pressure on the Republicans. If he finds -- if he nominates someone who has flaws or they discover in his record or her record these flaws, that could turn it the other way. So I don't think we know how this is going to fall out.

At the moment Ben is absolutely right. The Republicans, they really want to grab onto this issue. It will help them get votes out with their conservative base. But the president also has a chance to help the Democratic nominee get votes out from that base, depending on how this plays out.

COSTELLO: Interesting. I have to --

FERGUSON: And Carol, I talked to --

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Ben.

FERGUSON: I talked to -- yes, I talked to three different Senate campaigns, and they all said the same thing to me over the weekend. The bigger -- you know, when you look at this, and how you're going to deal with it is, do you take more heat by giving a nominee the thumbs up and then you're running on saying I helped Barack Obama put a liberal on the Supreme Court. They said that's a much bigger liability than saying I stood up to President Obama and I fought to make sure that the next president got to pick the Supreme Court nominee. That seems to be outweighing the other risk which is you're a supporter and ally of Barack Obama in Washington.

COSTELLO: Interesting. I have to leave it there.

GERGEN: We'll just have to see how it plays it out --

COSTELLO: Let's see. I have to leave it there. Sorry. David Gergen, Ben Ferguson, thanks to both of you.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Scalia's death igniting a political firestorm. We talked about that. How do the campaigns of the Democratic candidates, how are they responding? We'll talk about that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:35] COSTELLO: Pope Francis today brings his message of salvation and forgiveness to one of Mexico's poorest areas. Right now there's Pope's helicopter. He's on his way to the southern most states of Chiapas where the Pope will meet with indigenous people -- he will actually meet with the native people in the region and hold mass in their native language. Listen.

Yesterday the Pope visited a children's hospital in Mexico City where he was serenaded by a young patient.

Let's go CNN's Shasta Darlington. She's live in Mexico City with more. Good morning.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's right. We'll see Pope Francis touchdown fairly soon in San Cristolo Las Casas in the state of Chiapas. This is where even before he left the Vatican for Mexico, he authorized the use of three different indigenous languages for the mass and for the services.

It's an important step. His predecessor kind of frown on using the different languages. So this is an attempt to embrace these communities that have been turning away from Catholicism and going to other religion. It's an important step and we expect that he'll be very warmly greeted as soon as he touches down.

Now as you mentioned yesterday we also heard some important words and got some great images of Pope Francis when he was in a sprawling suburb outside of Mexico City. A very dangerous place. One of the most dangerous in all of Mexico. And during his mass there he talked about the temptations of wealth, fame, and power. And it was during his Angelus that he had the most critical message. He talked about how young people are being destroyed by drug trafficking and also immigration. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH LEADER (Through Translator): I want to invite you today, again, to be on the front line, to be the first in all the initiatives which help make this blessed land of Mexico a land of opportunities where there will be no need to emigrate in order to dream, no need to be exploited in order to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DARLINGTON: Now I wouldn't be surprised if he talked more about emigration today, Carol, because Chiapas is actually the main entry point for the thousands of Central American migrants headed to the United States. It's not only the poorest state but it's one that gathers in all of these migrants on their way.

And of course he'll end his trip in Ciudad Juarez. That is where we expect some real high points when he gives his cross-border mass where we expect to see him driving along the border fence in his Pope mobile -- Carol. COSTELLO: All right. Shasta Darlington reporting live from Mexico

City this morning. Thank you.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We are just hours from Bernie Sanders making his first campaign stop in scandal-plagued Flint, Michigan. It's a stop Hillary Clinton has already made and is already promoting in this new ad campaign.

The big question now, will Sanders' economy driven stance resonate with African-American voters?

Here's what Mrs. Clinton had to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not everything, not everything is about an economic theory. Right?