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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Cruz, Trump Continue Feuding; Scalia Death Repercussion; African American Vote in South Carolina; VA Reform Discussed. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired February 15, 2016 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN CONTIBUTOR AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Now Cruz is pedaling (ph) catch-up and doing a 180-degree turn and, saying wait a second everyone, look at his record. He has a record of being pro big health care program, record of being pro choice, not a good record on the second amendment. He is trying to liberalize Trump. He's trying to retroactively point out that he's not a real conservative. And frankly, it's a bit of success on Cruz's part that Trump is getting up there and having to defend himself against those allegations because that is not been with Trump has had to do for most of his campaign.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, still four days to go and it's going to be tough fight before the South Carolina. Ryan Lizza, Bakari Sellers it's always great to have you on the story.
BAKARI SELLERS, AMERICAN POLITICIAN: Thanks Jim.
SCIUTTO: This week a unique two night events. You'll only be able to see here on CNN.
All six Republican presidential candidates for the very first time in this entire campaign, they will answer questions from the voters of South Carolina. Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, and Ted Cruz kick it off on Wednesday night, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, and Donald Trump on Thursday night.
We'll have both events live beginning at 8:00 p.m. Wednesday and Thursday nights only on CNN.
Suddenly all three branches of government are caught up in the 2016 elections as are a litany of hot-button issues now pending before the Supreme Court.
After the break, how the death of Antonin Scalia could change the court and very nation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:35:46] SCIUTTO: We are following the fallout legal, political, constitutional from the death of Antonin Scalia, who was for almost 30 years a conservative Titan on the Supreme Court.
I'm joined here now in Washington by a constitutional Titan, a scholar of George Washington University, Law Professor Jonathan Turley. So a lot of politics involved, that's the understatement of the year.
But with these politics, there are charges going back and forth as to what's truly unprecedented. So let's go over a couple of them. Because there are on the one side, the democrats would say it would be unprecedented to have several months as long as a year till the -- really a year until the next president to have a vacancy. Is that truly unprecedented?
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR: No, that' not true. There have been vacancies that have in fact been longer, I mean the most unfortunate person is John Tyler. And I think his vacancy was about 27 months.
SCIUTTO: That's going back ...
TURLEY: That is going back tot (inaudible).
SCIUTTO: To the 19 here ...
(CROSSTALK)
TURLEY: But you have, 391 days of a vacancy in 1969 with Abe Fortas. A lot of these cases are complex because they involve different issues. The Fortas case you had someone whose been nominated from the court to the chief justice position. But it's -- the point is that it is not unprecedented the court would not stop functioning. It would not be as dire as all of that --
SCIUTTO: But it might be tied on a lot of the most ...
TURLEY: That's right. I mean it could (inaudible)
SCIUTTO: ... contentious issues.
TURLEY: That's right. The biggest facts that we have a bunch of historic cases that would become less historic because they would end up and ties and lower court decisions ...
SCUTTIO: Were spared.
TURLEY: ... were controlled.
SCIUTTO: And one of the ironies, being criticized, this union case, is that lower court has ruled that in effect of victory for the liberal side or the conservative side.
TURLEY: That's right. That's right. Both sides win or lose on this depending on the case. Some would go would go with the Conservative, some would go with the Liberals.
SCIUTTO: OK, so on the other charge then from the Republican side and, we heard this from Marco Rubio on their debate on Saturday. That it would be unprecedented to have a president so close to the next election to make a nomination like this. Is that a true statement?
TURLEY: No, it's not entirely accurate in the sense that you did have -- I mean the most obvious lame duck president it would be Johnson who'd already decided he was not going to go for a second term. He was -- that was the Fortas business. There is something aspects are unique in that. There are two other presidents in their final year that proved to be lame duck because they lost re-election.
But this is, where it's accurate, it is relatively rare. It is also accurate to say that whenever you're within two years of the end of a term, it's problematic it becomes more difficult. There's no rule against it, and it's not unprecedented in that sense, but it is more difficult. You also have to keep in mind it's relatively rare for a justice to die in the middle of a term. So, ...
SCIUTTO: A lot of the other vacancies were retirements.
TURLEY: That's right.
SCUTTIO: So, they could stick around during that time. Final question, just for you, we're in Washington, so politics are just a little bit involved in all of this. You know, a lot of names are being thrown around where the president could nominate and get over these political hurdles. (inaudible) you know, unanimously confirmed, Kelly, for instance who has a tie to Senator Grassley on the judicial committee. You're smart guy, you follow this kind of stuff, is there a nominee out there that the president could put forward to get pass all these?
TURLEY: You know look, it is possible that he could bend this like Beckham and get it through, but I wouldn't bet on it. The fact is you're replacing a conservative icon, not since we saw Thomas replacing Marshall and have we had such a real breakneck change. Any moderate nominee is going to move this needle to the left on the court and it's going to be a battle roya (ph)l.
SCIUTTO: No question and you know, not the only one happening this year, right?
TURLEY: Right.
SCIUTTO: Jonathan Turley, great to have you break it down for us. Coming up next democrats are positioning themselves to earn the African-American vote in South Carolina. House support for a Crime Bill in 1994 is affecting Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders' strategy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:43:34] SCIUTTO: The only way to win South Carolina's Democratic primary is to win the African-American vote. And both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders know this well. How big a role does the Black vote play there? In2008, 54 percent of the voters in the Democratic primary were Black. They decide the election. Both campaigns continue to court Black leaders. And tomorrow, Hillary Clinton is meeting with civil rights groups in New York city to quote, discuss the unfinished business that our country faces, including voting rights, poverty, unemployment, mass incarceration, and racial inequities. The National Urban League has a seat at the table for tomorrow's meeting and I'm joined by their president and CEO, Marc Morial. Marc, thank you for taking the time to join us.
MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Thank you, Jim, good afternoon.
SCIUTTO: So this is a key meeting any day of the year, but particularly in advance of the South Carolina primary. You have not endorsed anyone yet, your organization has not. What are you going to ask Hillary Clinton for tomorrow and what are you going to impress her on these issues?
MORIAL: So, we've invited Hillary Clinton and we've extended an invitation for the record to every candidate to participate in a similar briefing and we'll be talking about the issues of the economy, jobs, and poverty, voting rights, criminal justice, education. We'll also be talking about foreign affairs and with me will be an array of leaders of historic civil rights organizations who work together and who put together a 21st century agenda three years ago.
[12:45:09] So we'll be sharing with her our agenda, our policy prescriptions, our ideas on wide range of very important issues.
SCIUTTO: You say, just to confirm that, that you have extended the same invitation to Bernie Sanders?
MORIAL: We've extended it to Bernie as well as all of the Republican candidates. We aim to be ...
SCIUTTO: Has Bernie ...
MORIAL: ... in dialogue with everyone.
SCIUTTO: Bernie and have the other candidates accepted it? Have they accepted it yet?
MORIAL: So, we're in discussions with Bernie's campaign and we're in discussions with other campaigns and we hope in the next several days to announce who and where we will be meeting with other campaigns. So it's really important that everyone understand that these briefings, this meeting was not arranged by the Clinton campaign. It was arranged by the historic civil rights organizations and we'll be hosting at the National Urban League's headquarters in New York. And we're doing the same thing across the board because we think the issues that we want to share are important to everyone who ultimately wants to be president of the United States.
SCIUTTO: So let me ask you this, the conventional wisdom has been that Hillary Clinton owns the Black vote and that Bernie, partly from the part of the country's he's from, but also just his history that he doesn't have a shot there.
Now, that Bernie Sanders has argued that the Black community just hasn't heard enough about him and once they do, that they will support him. Let's look what the poll numbers. According to a Quinnipiac poll, 31percent of registered Black voters have not heard enough about him. But of those who have 55 percent do have a favorable opinion of him. I mean, look at that, it's a big advantage favorable over unfavorable. Do you believe that Bernie Sanders has a chance to make serious
inroads in the Black vote beginning in South Carolina?
MORIAL: This is what's important. No one owns the Black vote. The Black community like any other community should not be taken for granted. The fact of the matter is that Hillary Clinton has a track record and a history and a familiarity and a set of relationships that Bernie Sanders does not have.
The other fact is that Bernie Sanders has with his messaging, said things that I think, appealed to a broader crossection of Americans but is not well known even though he's been, if you will, in politics for some 30 years.
So, for -- I think African American voters like many voters, it's not just message, it's also whether the messenger is credible, and whether the messenger can be, if you will, a strong general election candidate.
I think African-American voters are very sophisticated, and can like a lot of candidates, but the issue is really going to be who they believe, who they trust, who they feel can truly carry the banner in the fall election.
SCIUTTO: Just very quickly, are you open to nominating Bernie Sanders? If he impresses you and excerpts (ph) and impresses you in the meeting.
MORIAL: Well my organization is non-partisan and will not endorse anyone. I will say that having a competitive conversation with candidates competing for the African-American community's support is in the best interest of the African-American community and if you will, the general election, the general electorate.
I think that people's minds are open, but it's important to recognize that Hillary Clinton starts with the advantage of history, familiarity, and relationships. And that for Bernie, he has a catch-up game with respect to a community with whom he's not had a lot of contact over the years, even though we certainly appreciate anyone who has supported the issues of voting rights, economic development for urban communities, and those issues over the years.
SCIUTTO: All right. Marc Morial thanks for having you on. It's good to talk.
And coming up, it has been more than two years since CNN uncovered excruciating often deadly at veteran wait times at veteran's hospitals across the country. Despite billions of dollars, it appears that nothing has changed. CNN investigates, that's right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:50:07] It is becoming a big topic on the campaign trail, who will fix the VA Despite billions of dollars in emergency funds, veterans across the country still have to wait sometimes months for essential medical care. CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin again brings us the
story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: El Paso's VA clinic had one of the worst wait lists in the entire country with one of the worst wait list stories we've ever heard.
BONNIE D' AMICO, MOTHER OF NICHOLAS D' AMICO: He just turned 45. We had one psychiatrist, and she wasn't available all the time.
GRIFFIN: And wasn't available to him.
D'AMICO: Yeah, wasn't available to him at all.
GRIFFIN: Bonnie D'Amico's son Nicholas was an army vet diagnosed with PTSD. He was living in Phoenix and getting some care at the Phoenix VA. But his illness forced him to come home to El Paso, and on to the wait list for care at El Paso's VA clinic. Four months?
GRIFFIN: And they told them
D'AMICO: Four months, before he could see, another psychiatrist, that he could see a primary doctor. The appointment was canceled, and made for two more months. And he got a little angry and said, you know what, that's six months. Six months I'm waiting to see somebody.
GRIFFIN: Nicholas grew angry, more depressed, and violent his mother says. He finally got an appointment, was given medication, and told to come back in nine months.
D'AMICO: That was the next appointment, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. There are guys that have to wait a year. I mean, this is really, it's a sin.
GRIFFIN: February it turned out just became too long of a wait.
[12:55:03] D'AMICO: He killed himself. He just can't wait anymore.
GRIFFIN: You still wear his dog tags.
D'AMICO: Yes. He's with me. This is him. He's my angel.
GRIFFIN: Days after his 45th birthday, Nick D'Amico tucked wallets, house keys and phone into a desert combat hat and left them on the bed. He drove his jeep to the Trans (inaudible) Highway above El Paso and drove over a cliff.
GRIFFIN: What would you like to say to these VA officials who ignored this problem for so long?
D'AMICO: I think some people need to go to jail. They knew what they were doing. They treated these men and women like they were doing them a favor, to give them an appointment. GRIFFIN: El Paso Congressman Beto O'Rourke serves on the House
Veteran's Affairs Committee and back home, he was hearing about the long wait times in El Paso, especially in mental health, and soldiers committing suicide. He thought he would get straight answers from the VA administration in Washington.
REP. BETO O'ROURKE, (D) TEXAS: They would tell me look, you would certainly has some disgruntled ornery veterans in El Paso and we have them all over the country, but our numbers tell us confidently, that we're seeing veterans in your community within two weeks.
GRIFFIN: O'Rourke did what no other congressman bothered to do. He did his own survey of vets in his own district.
O'ROURKE: How are you?
GRIFFIN: And proved to himself the VA was lying.
O'ROURKE: I was very frustrated when it became obvious to be me how bad the problem was. And how little support we had within the leadership of the V.A to transform El Paso. The secretaries, the interim, and then the new VA Secretary Bob McDonald all made visits here, but nothing seemed to turn around the problem with access ...
GRIFFIN: O'Rourke holds town hall meetings like this every month, and he was hearing more and more VA horror stories including Nick D'Amicos. He had heard enough from Washington.
O'ROURKE: OK. That's unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable.
GRIFFIN: So he came up with his own local plan that if it works could save the VA nationwide. El Paso's VA clinic will focus solely on treating combat and military service-related health issues.
O'ROURKE: That could be a traumatic amputation, a loss of a limb. It could be Military sexual trauma, traumatic brain injury or posttraumatic stress disorder. All other conditions from diabetes, to cold, to flu, getting their teeth fixed. There are confident and excellent doctors who are able to take care of them.
GRIFFIN: It's just getting started, but vets here seem to think the plan's working. Congressman in part credits a new interim VA director in El Paso, Gail Graham.
GAIL GRAHAM, ACTING DIRECTOR, EL PASO VA HEALTHCARE: And certainly we're trying every day to make improvements to increase our collaboration with the community to get the right provider into place in the facility.
GRIFFIN: It's more than O'Rourke can say for the politicians back in Washington from both sides of the aisle, whom he say, have mostly moved on from a crisis that hasn't gone away.
O'ROURKE: If Congress had been doing its job, it would have taken action much sooner than now. The same goes for the president and his predecessors. I don't know from his public comments that he fully appreciates the severity of the crisis, especially in mental health.
GRIFFIN: the new VA treatment plan comes too late for Bonnie D'Amico. What keeps her going is the hope her son's tragic end will be a beginning of a better VA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Senior Investigative correspondent Drew Griffin joins me now. You've been covering this from the beginning, and always powerful to hear the stories. This solution in El Paso sounds like it has potential, have the V.A. focussed on combat related both psychological and physical injuries? Does this have a potential to be applied more nationally?
GRIFFIN: You know it's really sizing down what the VA does to try to expand and get these times in better. Will it work in El Paso is the question. Beto O'Rourke right now is only focussing on that.
Jim, like many other critics of the VA, he is concerned that all the VA has been doing is tinkering with the edges of an organization that needs a massive restructuring. We have been asking the VA now in Washington, D.C. for two weeks for a comment on this story, and we have yet to receive comment on what's happening in El Paso. I think that is telling as to whether or not this spreads nationwide.
SCIUTTO: So, just very quickly before I let you go, who's failing here? Is it the VA itself? Is it oversight from the Hill?
GRIFFIN: I think the VA internally cannot handle the job that it's supposed to be doing because of all the bureaucracy wrapped around this mega organization that is so stuck. I think it needs pressure from the outside, particularly from the White House.
[13:00:09] SCIUTTO: Drew, good to have you on the story and thanks to all of you for watching today. Wolf starts right now.