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Will Michael Bloomberg Run?; Supreme Fight; Republican Fight Turns Nasty. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 16, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, MUSICIAN: But if you just focus on the work and you don't let those people sidetrack you, someday, when you get where you're going, you will look around and you will know that it was you and the people who love you who put you there. And that will be the greatest feeling in the world. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Her words. And it cuts to --

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: She was speaking directly to me. I live that. I wrote that speech for her.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Renee, what did you think?

RENEE BARGH, "EXTRA WEEKEND": I thought this was the most classy way she could have addressed those lyrics and the issue that she has with Kanye.

And I think she's made it pretty clear she did not give approval to Kanye to do those lyrics, so he's looking pretty bad. I'm shocked that he's done this, because they were in such a good place. And I think it's pretty apparent that it's Taylor Swift's world and we're all just living in it, so I think this is a really, really bad move for him and this is going to be a big war. It's on.

BALDWIN: OK. It is on. It is on.

And I'm feeling bigger picture, you think about Beyonce at the Super Bowl and the formation video. You know where I'm going?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And then with this, and then even looking ahead to Chris Rock at the Oscars, which we have sat and talked about. I feel like something's happening.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: I mean, look at this "New Yorker" cover. When you look at "The New Yorker," right, which many people think is sort of staid and stodgy. I think we have a copy of it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: It has civil rights leaders and black leaders up. And that's where were in this country. You see Malcolm X on the cover and James Baldwin, and you know, that's where we are in this country to talk about social justice and issues that will affect the country.

Right now, we have got the Supreme Court, right? We have got the election coming up. We have this, what's happening with African- Americans in this country, really, really social and racial injustice in this country.

Things are changing. Now, whether this is going to last, you know, whether this is going to be a formation so to speak for a long time, we're going to have to see. We will have to see. But at this point, it appears to be a turning point.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Gerrick, do you think it will last?

GERRICK KENNEDY, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": I mean, you know, we have the Oscars coming up in about a couple of weeks. And you have the weekend -- he's the only black person nominated. So the conversation is just going to keep going. I think moments like what Beyonce did at the Super Bowl, what Kendrick did at the Grammys, I think this is what keeps the conversation going forward.

And I agree with Don. I definitely hope it will last.

BALDWIN: OK. Final talk. We have to talk about Adele, who is phenomenal, phenomenal. She's a phenomenal, phenomenal woman. But this happened. Yes, don't adjust your volume, that really happened.

Adele tweeted -- I know, I know. She tweeted, "The piano mikes fell on to the piano strings. That's what the guitar was and made it sound out of tune. 'Bleep' happens. Because of it, though, I'm treating myself to an In-N-Out. So, maybe it was worth it"

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: She's a consummate professional, because S. does happen and you keep it pushing.

(CROSSTALK)

CHRIS WITHERSPOON, CNN ANALYST: We will see her again do this song, I'm sure, many more times.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: I thought she nailed it anyway.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Renee, what did you think?

BARGH: I mean, my heart broke for her, because you could tell at the very beginning that she was having issues. You could see it in her eyes.

And she is flawless. And we all knows she is always flawless, so to have that moment, it was heartbreaking to watch. But I'm glad she got to have her In-N-Out, because as an Aussie and somebody that is not from this country, it really is one of the best things to come out of this place.

BALDWIN: She deserved it and then some.

Renee, Gerrick, and Don and Chris, thank you, all.

LEMON: Animal style, I love it.

BALDWIN: Animal, baby. I love you.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: And we continue on. Roll the animation.

All right, let's continue. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

By the way, we are watching, waiting for Hillary Clinton to take the mike in Harlem. Live pictures there. She will be giving a speech on civil rights. We will take it live. But let's begin now before we see the former secretary of state. Let's talk Republicans. This is getting extraordinarily personal and downright dirty very quickly.

Donald Trump just speaking at a rally in South Carolina, again hitting at his rivals, even calling up a veteran and sheriff's deputy who just helped kick out a heckler. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it wasn't for Mr. Trump right here, I don't think any us would have the voice that we have. This is the only man that's going to really bring America back. He understands what it means for me and my people out here who have been to war. Please, everything you talk about, Mr. Trump, I can promise you right now, my department, departments around me, we need you.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All of this after calling Ted Cruz a basket case and a liar, oh, and, by the way, threatening to sue him if he doesn't retract his lies. [15:05:04]

Ted Cruz hitting back, telling Trump he has lost it. Then there is Marco Rubio joining the Ted Cruz is a liar chorus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's lying. And I think it's disturbing. I said that at the debate. He's now literally just making things up. I don't expect he's going to apologize. It's part of the campaign strategy to not tell the truth. And it's troubling. It really is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As for Jeb Bush, perhaps his patience appears to be wearing thin, telling Donald Trump he sounds like Michael Moore.

All of this, and there are still four whole days until that South Carolina primary.

Let me bring in A.B. Stoddard, the associate editor of The Hill and former U.S. senator Norm Coleman. He's Jeb Bush supporter.

So, to both you, welcome. Thanks for joining me.

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, "THE HILL": Thanks, Brooke.

NORM COLEMAN (R), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Senator, first to you. You were at that South Carolina debate this past weekend, called Trump out of control. Tell me why you thought he was.

COLEMAN: Well, he certainly brought things to a new level in these debates, not necessarily elevated.

But when -- not just Jeb Bush said he sounded like -- I think Rush Limbaugh said the same thing. When you accuse former President Bush of knowing, knowingly kind of getting us into 9/11, ignoring what the CIA said, which is simply not true, simply not true, it was kind of -- what did they say, jump the shark, is that what the Fonz used to say?

I think Trump pushed it over the edge now. Ultimately, we will see what the voters say about that, but when you have Limbaugh and Jeb Bush saying that sounded like Michael Moore, not a Republican candidate for president, I think you're kind of pushing it past the edge.

BALDWIN: Still, after the debate, A.B., Trump is soaring in the polls.

STODDARD: Right.

Well, Trump supporters don't care if he accuses the former president of lying and starting a war intentionally, if he threatens to sue every day of the week, even if he's never going to do it, if he says maybe he's going to run third-party again. All of this drama that he's doing is sort of part of his bit before he gets -- before people get to the polls.

He needs to stay in the news, stay on top of the headlines. We should expect nothing less in the days to come before the primary on Saturday. His supporters, remember this, do not care how outrageous he is, how insulting he is. They don't care if he comes to the debates without any policy prescriptions. They don't care about policy purity.

They don't care about religious purity. They're with him for a different reason. When Ted Cruz attacks him about his flip-flops on policy positions, it doesn't bother the average supporter of Donald Trump. They're with him for another reason entirely.

BALDWIN: A whole other piece of this is what he said about the RNC. Let me just quote part of his massive statement that was released this time yesterday.

Mr. Trump said: "One of the ways I can fight back is to bring a lawsuit against him," him being Ted Cruz, "relative to fact that he was born in Canada and therefore cannot be president. If he doesn't take down his false ads and retract his lies, I will do so immediately."

Additionally" -- this is the key line -- "the RNC should intervene and if they don't, they're in default of their pledge to me."

A.B., to me, that sounds like he's opening the door there for an independent run.

STODDARD: Absolutely. He's threatening to bring suit against Ted Cruz for his eligibility to run for president, as someone born in Canada, and he's threatening to run third-party because he thinks the RNC has violated his pledge to him.

The RNC, as you know, handles debate prep and planning, but it certainly does not step in when candidates run ads or say things against each other the other construes is a lie. And everyone is calling everyone a liar right now. The RNC is not stepping in between Rubio and Cruz or Cruz and Trump or anyone else, and Trump knows that.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Senator.

COLEMAN: I was going to say, this is politics, it's not badminton.

So, folks -- it happens. And on the Democrat side, you got Bill Clinton talking Bernie Sanders supporters, calling them Tea Party folks. But in tend, Donald Trump has -- he's got 30 percent, 35 percent of the Republican base, not more than that.

At a certain point in time, it's going to be Trump and somebody else. If it's Trump and somebody else, and he can't get kind of past that number, and we will see if -- this Saturday, we will see if, in fact, he loses some of that support for kind of I think really going past the edge in terms of, you know, calling Bush -- Bush lied, people died.

I think some Republicans will respond to that, but A.B. is right, he's got supporters, but they're not a majority of the voters in a Republican primary and they're certainly, of course, a small slice of the American public. He's the only person who has got higher negatives -- running for president got higher negatives than Hillary Clinton.

And so in the end, he may be opening the door to do something else. I hope that's not the case. But he's not a reflection of the broad swathe of the Republican Party.

BALDWIN: On that somebody else, potentially, obviously, you're hoping that somebody else is Jeb Bush, and a source close to the campaign tells CNN that they do expect first lady Barbara Bush to be back out.

We saw her, you know, hugely popular in -- when we were in New Hampshire. And so they will bring her back out in South Carolina.

[15:10:00]

I'm just wondering, do you think perhaps some of this, I don't know, maybe strength in the Jeb Bush campaign is attributed to bringing out his brother and his mom?

COLEMAN: On a personal level, I think it's impacted him. I have watched him. He's gotten better. He had a slow start. There's no question about that.

But I think he's found his stride. Certainly with his brother yesterday, after his brother, President Bush, spoke, he was energized, he was fired up. And so in the end, he's not denying, listen, this is -- he's had a great mom. He had a great dad who was one of the greatest presidents ever. He had a brother who was a great president.

In the end, he's kind of recognizing that. But, again, ask people to judge him on who he is. He's the guy with the plan. President Bush said something the other day, which is if you want someone to mirror your anger, you can support Donald Trump. But if you want someone to solve the problems that are causing you to be angry, then Jeb Bush is the man.

He's the guy with the plan. He's the guy who has kind of laid out how we can defeat ISIS. And he's the guy with the experience in governing in a way that was enormously successful as a good conservative Republican governor. In the end, if being -- if his mother is on the campaign trail, if President -- if 43 is on the campaign trail, in the end, he's fired up. I think it's good for him, and I think it's good for the Republican Party.

BALDWIN: Staying on Jeb Bush, A.B., I have a question, and I hope you don't find this totally out of left field. But it's something a number of people have noticed. Politics is about optics. It's also about aesthetics. If you look

lately at Jeb Bush, there's something missing, his glasses. Have you noticed this?

STODDARD: Yes, I did see in a few interviews that something was different and it took me a while to realize he had taken his glasses off.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What do you think is happening there?

STODDARD: I don't know what this is.

I do agree with the senator that he actually looks much more energetic and comfortable and confident. Obviously, he's having much better debate performances. But someone must have told him to lose the glasses. I don't know what that is. Maybe he looks more excited without his glasses.

Look, I think what's interesting about the -- Jeb Bush, you know, finally feeling comfortable as a Bush, as we got into the third contest here, is that, really, the people who are looking for a commander in chief with a plan want an experienced candidate. Then just seem to be dwindling.

I think the senator's also right. The people who support Donald Trump are not conservative and they're not really Republican. They're kind of populists. They're coming into the system for the first time. That's the problem for the Republican establishment should he beat the establishment figures and become the Republican nominee. He's not truly a Republican.

Republican voters have a choice to make. Are they looking for a commander in chief with a plan who has experience? Are they looking for someone to channel their anger and break up the whole town? And that's what you see in the Trump support, and we don't know where it's going.

BALDWIN: Yes. All right, Senator Coleman, A.B. Stoddard, thank you so much. We will talk again.

COLEMAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Again, that South Carolina primary all of four days away.

But before then, let me tell you about something you have to tune in for. Six, all six Republican candidates will be going face-to-face with the voters of South Carolina in CNN's Republican presidential town halls. This is the two-day event. You see here on your screen Wednesday and Thursday, both nights, 8:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Coming up, new questions today about why there is no autopsy on Justice Antonin Scalia, this as we're getting new details from the owner of the ranch where he passed away, telling us what was actually found over his head. We have that. Also, he's richer than Donald Trump, has CEO experience, ran America's

largest city. So as the Republicans fight it out and Trump threatens potentially this independent run, what is Michael Bloomberg thinking right about now? Is he closer to jumping in? We will discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:26]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The public will have a chance this Friday to pay their respects to Justice Antonin Scalia, who will be lying in repose at the U.S. Supreme Court. His funeral will be held Saturday, one week to the day after he died from natural causes.

Today, Justice Scalia's bench chair is draped in black, of course, in tribute. And just who will fill his suit really is the reason there is such tremendous anticipation for what president will do, what he will say when he speaks about an hour from now.

He's holding a news conference then that will likely reveal his next steps in this U.S. Supreme Court showdown he is currently having with Senate Republicans, those Republicans vowing not to confirm any individual who the president names, saying the choice should then instead go to whoever succeeds President Obama in the White House.

And that conflict may now turn arguably the best legal job in the land into the worst career move for whoever the president nominates. By all accounts, if that individual, if that gets to that stage, that nominee would undergo a grueling process with a high risk of actually never getting confirmed.

So, let me bring in Democratic strategist Keith Boykin, a former White House aide in the Clinton administration, and David Harsanyi. He's the senior editor at "The Federalist."

Keith, let me turn to you first.

Knowing the political climate in which we are existing at the moment, do you think whoever would want this job, it will be excruciating. It will be a fight, and my question would be, who would want to go through that?

KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: That's a good question.

I don't know. But when you're nominated for the highest position in the judiciary in America, that's an honor that's unmistakable. And I don't think it's a reason why someone would necessarily turn that down, unless you had something else in play.

BALDWIN: But eyes wide open going into that.

BOYKIN: You have to have your eyes wide open. There is never a guarantee, but this process is more politicized than any process I have seen since the Robert Bork nomination. And I think what's different now is that there's no precedent in modern political history for one party even denying the opportunity for the candidate of the president of the United States to be -- have a vote on the nomination. It's unprecedented.

BALDWIN: On that note, from Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans, David, do you think that perhaps the Republicans should not have played that hand so early, so to speak, not said they will not confirm?

DAVID HARSANYI, "THE FEDERALIST": I think, tactically, it makes sense, because whoever's nominated, there's a high probability that there's just going to be identity politics involved and this grueling interview process and the press.

[15:20:02]

This way, they have already told you they're not going to look at any candidates. Now, if Obama comes back with like a Madisonian or some sort of originalist, I'm sure they could change their minds. But this way, they have headed that off at the past. And I think they make the debate about Obama rather than the candidate that he produces. And I think that that's probably smart for them.

BALDWIN: You want to respond to that?

BOYKIN: Yes, I don't think so, because, right now, it's very esoteric and ambiguous.

But until you have a real name, a nominee, a face and a candidate, then things change. And the question is, are you going to deny this person, this woman or man, an opportunity to be to get a fair hearing for the United States Supreme Court?

I think that's a harder fight for the Republicans to win. And, actually, I think it will actually turn out more Democrats and disappoint a lot of independents who otherwise might be indifferent. It kind of repudiates the whole notion that there's a false equivalence or that there's no difference between the two parties, because clearly there's a difference.

BALDWIN: What about that point, that it could backfire on these Republicans, this intransigence, David?

HARSANYI: It could if they make a ham-fisted argument about it.

But if they truly believe that the Obama administration or that Obama himself has had contempt for the Constitution, as they say, that he's been abusing his executive power, then they have an argument with him.

And I think this obstructionism argument, how moderate voters and everyone are going to turn against Republicans, hasn't worked out that way. They have had a wave election when I was hearing this last time. I think that some moderates will be turned away, but I think people on both sides will probably be galvanized -- galvanized about it. I'm sorry. BALDWIN: Galvanized, right, right, right.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I got you. I got you.

There's been a theory thrown out there, all right, well, perhaps the president would nominate someone who could be the so-called sacrificial lamb, right? This person wouldn't necessarily be the one who would ultimately be confirmed by the Senate, but could be someone who perhaps is more left-leaning, would galvanize the base, would help a Hillary or a Bernie in terms of making an argument against Republicans and wanting that next four years.

Or does the president keep -- go for a more centrist pick, consensus pick?

BOYKIN: I think the president picks best person for the job, whether that person is someone who is a sacrificial lamb or not.

I think you don't go into the process thinking that there's a good chance this may not work out. Yes, we know that's the political calculus that everyone in Washington is making, but you have to understand this is a process that is constitutionally designated. He has an obligation to pick the right person, the best person, and not just what is the most politically expedient choice.

I think ultimately that will be the candidate who will have the best chance of winning the nomination.

BALDWIN: David, let me throw this at you and this is the final question.

If you're a "West Wing" fan -- this is something else that is being discussed, the so-called "West Wing" theory, where you let Ruth Bader Ginsburg retire, so she retires, let the Republicans choose one, and have the Democrats have a liberal-leaning justice.

Is that just sort of silly and something that would happen on a television episode, but never in a million years happen in real life?

(CROSSTALK)

HARSANYI: Well, nothing in history or the recent history suggests that anyone's going to go for that.

But more than that, I'm sure that the left wing would be mad about that as well. They win elections for reasons. They want progressives in that court. And they want to re -- you know, this is a huge seat. They're going to reframe the argument. They're going to change the ideological complexion of that court.

There's simply no reason for them to go for something like that. But it sounds pretty good to me. I like it.

BALDWIN: OK. Real-life West Wing would not dig the actual "West Wing" proposal.

Keith and David, thank you both so much on that. We will be watching to see what happens.

And, again, the president speaking, holding a news conference within the next hour. And we are expecting him to talk about the vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court. We will take it live here on CNN.

Meantime, if Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump become the eventual nominees, some analysts say that that could just be the window former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg needs to enter this race. Really? Would he do this? Why would he do this? Let's explore coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:35]

BALDWIN: As the race for president really on both sides of the aisle grows increasingly divisive and just nasty in some cases, there are pundits who are saying the turmoil could really open the door, open for this opportunity for an independent candidate not only to jump into the race, but to win.

And that is the focus of the "New York" magazine articled entitled "Why Michael Bloomberg Could Run for President and Win." You read this piece and essentially it argues that if Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders win their party's nominations, it could have a winning path for the billionaire and former New York City mayor.

Let's bring in Bernard Whitman to talk about this, who knows Mayor Bloomberg well, having worked with him as a pollster in 2009.

Welcome back.

BERNARD WHITMAN, POLLSTER: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: How long does he really have to decide?

WHITMAN: I think in the next few weeks he has got to make a decision. There are a number of deadlines that loom, in particular May 9 in Texas, when he has to actually take some significant steps, and before that, he'd have to gather signatures and so forth. So he has a few weeks, but the time is drawing nigh to make a decision.

BALDWIN: By then, we may not know which -- whether it's a Bernie Sanders situation or a Hillary Clinton situation. He has to be weighing that as part of his decision.

WHITMAN: Here's what we do know.

Each passing day on the Republican side, it gets more and more apparent that the voters would actually welcome a real adult in the room. You have the two front-runners yelling at each other, screaming at each other, calling each other liars, one threatening to sue. It is literally a reality TV race gone presidential.