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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Clinton, Civil Rights Leaders Meet In Harlem; Bill Clinton Campaigns For His Wife In South Carolina; Rubio Hoping For South Carolina Comeback; Interview With Rep. Darrell Issa of California; Trump Says He'll Sue Cruz If No Apology; Rubio Accuses Cruz Of Lying; Justice Scalia To Lie In Repose Friday With Funeral On Saturday; Obama Vows To Nominate Scalia's Successor; Scalia's Death Sets Off Epic Political Fight Over Replacement. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 16, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:07] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN GUEST HOST: The overwhelming support from minority communities. What Clinton supporters call her firewall, supporter to that her campaign says will give her the edge over Bernie Sanders in the next two state battles ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My campaign is really about breaking every barrier. Because I believe absolutely that America can't live up to its potential, unless every single person has the chance to live up to theirs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Todd Rutherford joins me now from Columbia, South Carolina. He is the minority leader in the South Carolina State House and a supporter of Hillary Clinton. Thanks for joining us, Todd.

S.C. STATE REP. J. TODD RUTHERFORD (I), MINORITY LEADER: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, you heard your colleague Cezar Mcknight, as a Sanders supporter say just a few moments ago that Bernie Sanders' message of inclusion of spreading the wealth, so to speak, is appealing to African-American voters, and peeling some support away from Hillary Clinton.

Is Hillary Clinton -- are you concerned that she's losing some of that firewall that her supporters will refer to often?

RUTHERFORD: Honestly, I'm concerned that Bernie Sanders' message is getting through to the wrong people. That as he talks about the things that he plans on doing that he's simply in reality cannot do. He's doing a disservice and an injustice to the people here in South Carolina. A lot of whom have limited means, and a lot of whom are in college. And believe that he's going to be able to pay for their college. That he's going to be able to do all the things he talks about. And he's doing a disservice to the people here that are listening to him and believing in that message. Unfortunately for Bernie Sanders, his entree into African-American politics and those things that are concerning the African-Americans is about 40 days old at this point.

Hillary Clinton has been doing it for about 40 years. The Clinton brand and Clinton family has been around in South Carolina since she got out of Law school.

There are a number of people here that have personal relationships here with the Clintons. That's when they carry over to finish line here in South Carolina. And we believe nationally as well.

SCIUTTO: There are though, to be fair, critics within the African- American community who going back to Hillary Clinton's husband presidency talk about, for instance, the tougher crime laws, the end of well welfare reform, the end of welfare as we knew it at the time and say that in terms of record though, the Clintons haven't shown the support that they should have to the African-American community. After getting, you know, their so many of their votes in two successive presidential elections.

RUTHERFORD: Those critics are the same people that will point out -- that will criticize just about anything. I've been in the House now for 18 years. And I look back over my voting record and there are clearly some things that I would change. The '94 crime bill was also supported by Bernie Sanders. He later then again ran as an independent touting his vote for the '94 crime bill.

So again, there are things that looking back on them, a lot of people would change. But as you look throughout somebody's entire history, Bernie Sanders was never that guy that people ran to and said we need help with civil rights.

We need help, can you come down to South Carolina and help us out. Can you come to Arkansas, can you go to Alabama. Hillary Clinton has done all of those things and help out African-Americans throughout her entire career.

We welcome Bernie Sanders to the party, but he is clearly a Johnny come lately to the issue of African-American and their plight.

SCIUTTO: So, we have Hillary Clinton meeting with civil rights leaders in New York today. One of the series of meetings, she'll have a speech on racism later in the day.

What do you believe she needs to say to keep African-American voters from leaving her for Bernie Sanders? What do they need to hear from her?

RUTHERFORD: Well, what is clear to me is that by virtue of the fact that the Clintons have been involved for so long, that she's going to knock it out of the park. That she's going to talk about those things that are not just about law enforcement and how African-American men and Black people are treated by at the hands of the police. But she's going to talk about things like empowerment, economic empowerment, jobs things that African-Americans care about when they get home, they sit around the dinner table. It's not all about law enforcement; it's about moving forward to a future of prosperity, being included in the prosperity that white Americans enjoyed for so long.

I believe those are the topics she's going to talk about and she is well-versed in the issues and I believe she's going to deliver this afternoon.

SCIUTTO: Todd Rutherford, thank you. Good to have you on today.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, Marco Rubio, hoping for a big comeback in South Carolina after a big disappointment in New Hampshire.

Will calling Ted Cruz a liar help his cause? We'll talk about that and much more with a key Rubio supporter, Congressman Darrell Issa. That's what after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:47] SCIUTTO: If you ask Donald Trump about his opponent Ted Cruz, he paints an ugly picture.

In press conference yesterday, in one breath, Trump described Cruz as unstable, twice accused him of fraud, twice accused him of lying, twice and questioned his Christian faith, that last one, just once. Trump has other plans in case his words don't hurt Cruz by themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to bring a lawsuit because in my opinion, based on what I've learned over the last two, three days, from very top lawyers, he doesn't even have the right to serve as president or even run as president. He was born in Canada. So I will bring that lawsuit if he doesn't apologize.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The apology that Trump is demanding, that would be for what Trump says are lies that Cruz is telling about Trump's positions. I'm joined now by CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. She is in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina, today. Trump, again, threatening this lawsuit. I'm just curious Sunlen, is the Cruz campaign taking that threat seriously?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well publicly, Jim, they're not right now they're very much wanting to move this into the category of non-serious, file it away in the non-serious category, casting this.

They call this yesterday erratic and unpredictable behavior by Trump. And really trying to turn that argument into something that speaks to Trump's electability saying that this proves he doesn't have the temperament to be commander in chief. [12:40:11] And Cruz, himself, his response has largely been to mock Donald Trump over these threats of a lawsuit. Yesterday telling voters that he heard that Donald Trump lost it during that press conference you just referenced and really then to pivot and double down exactly on these allegations that Donald Trump is taking issue with over his record. Trump says he's misrepresenting his record on all sorts of things, litany of issues that Cruz has been arguing against here in South Carolina over abortion, over same-sex marriage largely depict Donald Trump as a phony conservative. That is such a key part of Ted Cruz's closing message, very clear. He is going to stay laser focused on that. Even though, of course, it is disputed. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Thank you so much Serfati covering the campaign. The liar accusations in the GOP race, certainly, not isolated to Trump versus Cruz.

Ted Cruz is fighting a two-front war with Marco Rubio, also accusing Cruz of lying about his record. Today, Rubio lashed out once again at Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, he's lying. And I think it's disturbing. I said that at the debate, he's now literally just making things up.

I don't expect he's going to apologize, it's part of their campaign strategy to not tell the truth, and it's troubling, it really is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I'm joined now by Republican Congressman Darrell Issa of California. He is supporting Marco Rubio for president. Congressman Issa thanks for joining us today.

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R) CALIFORNIA: Thanks for correcting on the name, that's becoming a little sensitive these days.

SCIUTTO: My name gets mispronounced all the time, so, sincere apologies.

ISSA: No doubt. The -- Go ahead.

On this issue of lying, and this is a charge that's being sent back and forth from a number of the candidates right now, but Ted Cruz accuses Marco Rubio of lying. And one of those issues is his record on immigration. And when you look at the record though, to be fair, Rubio ran in 2010 against a path to citizenship, then he supported, in 2013, exactly that, as part of an immigration reform plan, he now says in effect he doesn't believe that anymore. Why is that not a fair criticism from Ted Cruz to Marco Rubio on his record specifically on immigration?

ISSA: Well first of all, if you go to Marco Rubio's website, we make it as a campaign a policy that when Senator Rubio says something, we post it. So people can see the video or see the text in its original form because that's the right way to do it. It's very clear that candidates do have a responsibility to correct the record both for themselves and their opponent.

And that's all Senator Rubio is doing is making it clear that senator Cruz has offered specific amendments that make it very clear that if he ever were to get to yes on anything, it would include some of the same exact things that he's always accusing Senator Rubio of.

But to answer your question, Senator Rubio worked on a bipartisan effort to get a bill over to the House to see if we couldn't get an enforcement bill that stayed, some people here developed a guess worker program and eliminated once and for all this limbo that has existed since 1986 when President Reagan passed a good bill that never got properly enforced.

That's where we are, that's where Senator Rubio tried to be. But what we found was that there wasn't a will in the houses to send back a good piece of legislation. There were also wasn't a will amongst senate democrats to actually make the compromises necessary to have real enforcement first, so that we could get to campaign, I'm sorry, I had to apologize, to get to immigration reform in a way that would be meaningful that would end this problem once and for all.

SCIUTTO: So you're saying, he still supports the idea of a path to citizenship, but deal with the border war first and then take care of that? And then

ISSA: You know, ever since Senator Rubio entered, and I first met him, he has said, enforcement first, deal with criminal aliens, deal with the ejection of a whole class of people that shouldn't be here, develop a proper guest worker program, those who qualify for it and have committed no other crimes, other than being in the U.S. might be looked at, but enforcement first.

That's the way he's been all along. You know, Senator Rubio, like myself, supports the fact that we have a front door that allows 1.2 million people to immigrate legally here every year.

It's about reforming the front door and closing the back door. And he's been consistent since I met him when he entered the senate and began working with him on our investigation as to Obama administration, fast and furious, Benghazi, all of these investigations.

He's been a rock solid consistent speaker of what he wants to achieve. And that's enforcement followed by dealing with those already here, if in fact they would qualify for a guest worker program or some other forum.

[12:45:07] SCIUTTO: Does Marco Rubio need a strong finish in South Carolina? Really need it, perhaps even a strong second place following the debate stumble in advance of New Hampshire and the disappointing finishes there after Iowa?

ISSA: Marco Rubio made it clear that he made a mistake. He got caught in a trap by the relentless attack of the career prosecutor who has now left the race. And he's owned up to it in a way that politicians normally won't.

He also has been answering yours and thousands of other people's questions consistently and spontaneously. You ask him a question, he answers it. He also said, and I think this is the important thing, he will not again repeat a lie even when he's under relentless attack. He learned from it, he won't do it again.

Let's understand, Marco Rubio has had good, solid answers to people's questions that aren't written in somebody's talking points, but in fact, he has researched in national defense, foreign affairs, and all the areas that are so important to Americans today.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because most polls and of course polls can change, but they showed Donald Trump with a very big lead in South Carolina. If he wins with such a lead, do you think his momentum will be stoppable by candidates such as Rubio?

ISSA: Well first of all, the more people get to know Donald Trump the more they get to realize that he's got democratic talking points, and he has a long history including his having Hillary Clinton at his wedding. This is somebody who in that debate the other night, shamefully wanted to accuse George W. Bush of causing 9/11.

That's a talking point that I saw when i first entered congress. It was appalling then, it's appalling for anyone to do now, it certainly is appalling for somebody who says he's a conservative Republican. You know, I know there's a lot of talks of lawsuits and apologies, the real apology that's owed right now is to former President George W. Bush by Donald Trump.

He made a statement that only the most extreme Democrats would ever make. And he owes an apology to a president who came in with a domestic agenda was caught up in an attack, not of our bringing, and he responded as best he could and he responded patriotically for those full eight years. And I think we have to raise the decorum in many ways, but not the least of which is do not start using somebody else's talking points, particularly if you want to be the Republican nominee.

So can Donald Trump go on for a while because he has billions of dollars, yes. Is he shrinking in the eyes of his strongest supporters, yes.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Darrell Issa, thanks for joining us today.

ISSA: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, breaking news on plans to honor the late Supreme Court justice, Antonin Scalia, and we also expect to hear from President Obama a bit later about his plans to replace the court's conservative.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:52:01] SCIUTTO: Back now to our lead story, the first word on the final arrangements for the late Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia. A source close to the family tells CNN that Scalia will lie in repose at the court on Friday, and his funeral will take place on Saturday at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

Later today, President Obama's due to hold a news conference and you can bet that Scalia's passing and the political firestorm that has resulted will certainly come up.

President has already vowed to pick a successor to the longest serving member of the court. And senate Republicans have almost unanimously vowed not to confirm or even consider election year nominations. Some cite the purported senate known as the Thurmond rule but the top senate Democrat today warned the Republican majority they risk their own legacy if they leave a high court vacancy for more than a year.

Harry Reid writes in the Washington post, and I quote, "It is easy to get caught up in the partisan swirl of an election year, but i would urge my Republican colleagues to remember that the consequences of blocking any nominee regardless of merits would hang over their heads for the rest of their careers".

The Presidential news conference I mentioned starts at 4:35 p.m. Eastern you will of course see it live right here on CNN.

In the meantime, I want to bring in CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju. So you have, not just from Harry Reid this argument that Senator Mitch McConnell might have painted himself into a corner here with this immediate statement, we're not going to consider, any truth to that (inaudible)?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly that's what Democrats hoping. The leverage point is going to be the Republicans who are up for re-election. And you see different levels of reaction from those members. People who sided with McConnell like Ron Johnson of Wisconsin in a very tough race, but then on the other then on the other side we have Mark Kirk from Illinois also in a very tough way for Republican who could lose his seat.

And he said we shouldn't be even bothered discussing this and debating this right now. That's more than make tribute to the late justice Scalia but it really underscores the fact that pressure's going to build on these guys. And when there's a name of a nominee that's going to change the debate even further.

As you know, Jim, Chuck Grassley, just now earlier today this morning, the judiciary committee chairman did not rule out having a confirmation hearing on that nominee so they're will probably a lot of pressure from Democrats to at least hold a hearing.

SCIUTTO: Interesting from Grassley. A name we all know from George W. Bush's administration, this is an interesting one on the other side of this argument says President Obama has a duty to nominate Scalia's successor and that the senate has a duty to consider that nominee we're talking about Alberto Gonzalez have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALBERTO GONZALEZ, DEAN BELMONT, UNIVERSITY SDHOOL OF LAW: I know there's a big debate going on right now about whether or not Obama should nominate someone from my perspective having worked in the White House and then at the Department of Justice. I mean, there's just no question in my mind that as President of the United States, you have an obligation to fill a vacancy and so I suspect that President Obama is going to do his job and after he does his job and nominating a hopefully a qualified individual the senate will do its job eventually on its own calendar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: He's got a GOP former GOP attorney general making that argument there. Does that have weight? Is that going to move someone?

RAJU: It will give Democrats more ammunition to go after the GOP over, but you know, Republicans will say that look, it is -- this is an ill legitimate choice in an election here.

SCIUTTO: He's got a GOP former GOP attorney general making that argument there. Does that have weight? Is that going to move someone?

RAJU: It will give Democrats more ammunition to go after the GOP over, but you know, Republicans will say that look, it is -- this is an ill legitimate choice in an election year. They don't want it -- a lot of them don't want to the have hearings because that would legitimize this nominee. It would give momentum potentially behind a nominee particularly one who is well-qualified. But if there are cracks in the Republican armor so to speak, then it's going to be a lot harder to maintain that opposition, but, even so, there are some squeaky wheels and people like Alberto Gonzalez, it's going to be very hard to get the 60 votes necessary to overcome a filibuster 14 Republicans would have to defect to get that.

SCIUTTO: And let's be clear here, Republicans aren't the only ones in a similar situation who have said listen, let's wait until the next election. Even some of the voices we're hearing now, Chuck Schumer 2007 (inaudible) they said the same thing, so do they have a leg to stand on?

RAJU: Yeah, the thing about judicial fights is that both parties have taken the opposite position when they're in the minority happens all the time. Chuck Schumer argued the opposite thing they're arguing now Mitch McConnell who made some similar arguments back in 2008. So, you're going to see both sides use it

against each other just to muddy the waters.

SCIUTTO: As to their positions of all.

RAJU: Like Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: There you go. So word's been used before. Manu Raju thanks very much for joining us. [13:01:2016] SCIUTTO: And thank you for watching. It's been great t

to been great to be Ashleigh show today. We'll be here all week. Wolf starts right now after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)