Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

S.C. Governor Nikki Haley to Endorse Rubio; Apple Protests Judge's Order To Hack Killer's Phone; Ted Cruz Dares Donald Trump To Sue Him; Trump Sends Cruz "Cease and Desist" Letter Over Ad; Report Says Flint Paid High Water Bills In U.S, And For Poisoned Water; Clinton Leads With 65 Percent Among S.C.'s Black Voters. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 17, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:02] KELLYANNE CONWAY, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: But you can't really operationalize it and capitalize on it the way Mitt Romney tried, although he lost in Newt Gingrich by 12 points.

So, I do think it helps Marco Rubio at a time when he really needs it. I think it helped Ted Cruz a great deal today for Jim DeMint, another favorite son of South Carolina, former senator who retired, went out on his own to lead The Heritage Foundation, very well respected here. Going out today and giving a pretty robust interview saying, stop -- you know, saying Ted Cruz is a liar. I know him as a man of integrity. And that, the reason people are attacking Ted Cruz is because he attacks Washington.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: That's interesting. So, I mean, Danielle, do you think it is still any one's race? And obviously, the poll showed Donald Trump by far the front-runner, but there's so many people undecided.

PROF. DANIELLE VINSON, FURMAN UNIVERSITY: Yeah. I think, you know, it's still Trump is the favorite. But I think in that second race that's going on to see who might challenge him going forward, that is anyone's game right now.

BURNETT: And which is pretty incredible. And in terms of the Nikki Haley endorsement, I know your feeling was, perhaps, even more than pro Marco Rubio, this is a real blow for Jeb Bush.

VINSON: It's tough because, again, I don't know that Nikki Haley -- she doesn't have the time to do the direct mail and things like that. But, it does sort of shore Rubio back up a little bit, and it may block a little momentum that Bush was hoping to carry through the rest of this week.

BURNETT: And so, what do you think about these undecided and leaning voters? Because, I mean, I have to say, I'm adding together those two numbers to get to 51 percent of voters of the state are undecided or leaning?

CONWAY: It's a great way of looking at it, Erin. I mean, as a professional pollster, I can tell you, too often people look at who's voting for whom and not enough of what you just pointed out which is, who's still fluid, who's still out there, who's still flirting. And what is it that they need to learn more? I mean do they...

BURNETT: Right, right.

CONWAY: ... one work or they need to see one more candidate, one more add, probably not.

The question for most voters is usually two parts. Number one is, the threshold question is, should I bother to vote at all? Number two is for whom to vote. This year, there's such energy on the Republican side. We see record turnout so far in New Hampshire and Iowa.

BURNETT: And you expect that, you know, record as well.

CONWAY: Yeah, a lot of the statement here in South Carolina in our polling, we have to count for all the new registrants with account (ph) for the enthusiasm. But I think those folks are -- if you look at their second choice, that's a key number to see. Who's your second choice because maybe you got a little hesitation about your first choice, number one.

BURNETT: Yeah.

CONWAY: Number two, Donald Trump is in the lead here, but our polls show not as high as many people think. There is a bit of bunching up recently between the top three like there was in Iowa toward the end, number one.

Number two, Donald Trump has the highest number of people saying they would never vote for him. So he's got the top vote and he got the top, I'll never vote for you.

BURNETT: Is it possible that we could see an Iowa-like scenario, those final polls came out, and remember, the Des Moines register poll, the gold standard came out and said ...

CONWAY: Republican polls (inaudible) are pretty good.

BURNETT: ... so, do you really think that it is a lot tighter than some of these polls are showing?

CONWAY: Well, I do. And it could be, and things like Nikki Haley's endorsement upset the race in their own way, too. It's something that pollsters during the field last night, Erin, could have not accounted for, for example. So, you'd have to stay in the field to the end, you don't know ...

BURNETT: Right.

CONWAY: ... and in forums today, that will matter to people where they take (inaudible) these forums, whether they watch it live or they get it residually later on to the media.

The other thing is you have to know who the electorate is. And the Iowa polls were off by March because some polls assumed too much of the electorate would vote, basically every eligible voters are going to be corrupt (ph). BURNETT: Right, (inaudible) yes.

CONWAY: And then, 60 percent of the Des Moines register poll accounted for 60 percent evangelicals, you now have a 64 percent which helps somebody like Cruz.

BURNETT: That's right, so then what do voters want to know? I mean, to this point, what more do they want to know?

VINSON: I don't know, I don't know that it's -- that they want to know more specifically about the candidates. I think those undecided voters right now are trying to figure out who's got the best chance in the fall, especially if they're not ...

BURNETT: Electability.

VINSON: ... supporting Trump right now.

BURNETT: All right. Well, thank you both very much, Danielle, Kellyanne. We appreciate it here in South Carolina.

And next, Apple refusing to help the FBI hack into the phones of the San Bernardino terrorists, a judge just said the tech giant should go ahead and help. But they're defending privacy, even for a terrorist. Why?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:38:10] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Privacy versus protection. Apple has been ordered to hack into a user's iPhone to help the FBI with a terror investigation. The phone we're talking about is the phone of San Bernardino terrorist Syed Farook.

Now, authorities cannot figure out the password to his phone. And if they do it too many times, all the data will get wiped. That's the issue here.

The tech giant, Apple, is fighting back. In the process, what they're doing is bringing this massive sort of privacy versus fighting terrorism debate to the fore in the public arena.

Is Apple opposing a government order to help fight terrorism, or is it simply trying to protect the privacy of its users? Let's talk about it all. CNNMoney Tech Correspondent Laurie Segall all over this story, as the CNN Senior Media Correspondent and host of Reliable Sources, Brian Stelter.

Laurie, can we just talk about -- the issue here is that Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, wrote this long letter and talks about some of the slippery folks (ph), saying, "We can't just let you in. We don't have access. We have to build an entirely new operating system to allow the FBI to get into this phone. If we do, that will be available to hackers, the bad guys, around the world."

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN TECH CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And let me say this, on purpose, they don't have access. They don't want to have access because they don't want to have these kinds of conversations. It puts them in a tough position.

And the software that they would build to enable this to happen is what they -- they could be like a skeleton key. So imagine, you put a key under the mat, and you say, "OK, if law enforcement needs to get in, they can." But then, the hackers can come in, nation states can spy. And that's what Tim Cook is saying, and that's why he's trying to come out in a very aggressive way and try to educate people and say, "This is why this case will set a very unfortunate, an unfortunate precedent for the rest of tech companies, the rest of the industry.

HARLOW: Could that if they do open it, I mean, Brian, it's interesting because you've said, the framing of this story as it plays out in the public sphere is ...

[15:40:02] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

HARLOW: ... critical, I mean, Paul Callan told me last hour, this could go to the Supreme Court.

STELTER: Yeah. In many ways, I think what Apple is doing is very brave here because often times, these stories are framed from the government perspective, why is Apple putting security at risk. I think what Apple did with Tim Cook's letter overnight was to reframe it saying, "We are about your privacy as users, not just Americans but others as well."

I think we should keep in mind, this iPhone, this is marketing. Part of the marketing of the iPhone is how secure it is, how private it is, how your communications aren't being accessed by Apple. That's a marketing tool not just within the U.S. but outside the U.S.

And I know that Tim Cook's letter is not just to an American audience, it's also to a global audience reassuring people he is not going to give over data.

HARLOW: So one thing, Laurie, that I'm fascinated by is what other tech companies may or will or won't come to Apple, to backup Apple, like if you look at a Google or an Amazon, they're all competitors in a way, but they're also colleagues in the same space that they're fighting this privacy fight as well. Do you see them coming to support Apple or staying quiet?

SEGALL: Oh, I think they will absolutely. I mean, we're seeing it more and more that they'll come forward and maybe speak up.

Tim Cook has been a notable figure who's always kind of spoken up. But, you know, speaking to folks in Silicon Valley, you're hearing people saying, "You know what, I think we want to talk about it."

I've spoken to a couple of people who say, "We haven't been ready to speak about this," because -- but you have the government speaking about it. You have politicians on the campaign trail speaking about it.

HARLOW: Yeah. Donald Trump. SEGALL: Donald Trump. So, what we want to hear is we want Silicon

Valley to come forward and talk about this. It's -- you know, about a month ago, there was a meeting with top security officials in Silicon Valley. And I heard from someone who told me Tim Cook in the room gave this brilliant 10-minute speech on the effect of encryption and why we need it. I think a lot of times people want to hear that conversation out in public.

STELTER: And that's what they're calling for now.

SEGALL: And that's what they're doing now.

STELTER: To have the public conversation. Yeah.

HARLOW: And Brian, before I let you go quickly, you argued that the Snowden leaks play into all of this? How?

STELTER: Yeah, that it changed the relationship between these tech companies and the government, that they were embarrassed by some of the leaks, revealing how close and cozy the relationship sometimes is between the government and these tech companies.

HARLOW: Not this one.

STELTER: And no, that is clearly changing. Like I said, Apple now, is using it as a marketing tool to say, "Your communications are protected, they are private."

HARLOW: Yeah.

STELTER: You can tell how far we are from 9/11 at this point. The conversations in 2002 and 2003 about security and privacy are not the conversations we're having today.

HARLOW: All right. Thank you so much, Brian Stelter and Laurie Segall. Much more of this on cnnmoney.com, just go there.

Coming up next, back to politics, the gloves coming off on the campaign trail. Donald Trump sending a cease and desist letter to this man, Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz holding a news conference saying he's calling Trump's bluff.

We will take you live to South Carolina to get a response from a congressman who is backing Cruz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:44] BURNETT: So we may be in the South, but it is far from genteel here in South Carolina today. The state definitely earning its political reputation as a bear knuckles brawl state. They are not afraid to fight it out.

Case in point, the escalating accusations and attacks between Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and the front-runner Donald Trump. It is a three- way melee, for his part. Cruz, hitting back at Trump and Rubio for calling him a liar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio is behaving like Donald Trump with a smile.

At the debate, I made three points about Marco's record on immigration. Number one, that Marco, right now currently, supports granting citizenship to the 12 million people here illegally. That is a fact. And Marco's response was exactly the same as Donald's. It was to yell, "Liar, liar, liar."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: All right. I'm joined now by Ted Cruz supporter, South Carolina Congressman Jeff Duncan. All right, Congressman, thank you for being with me.

OK. So, it's nasty, the word liar is being thrown around more than usual in politics.

Nikki Haley coming out today, though, I know a lot of people had expected her to stay out of this because she waited so long jumping in on behalf of Marco Rubio, with the majority of voters leaning towards someone or undecided. How big of a blow is that?

REP. JEFF DUNCAN, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, we'll see what kind of effect that has on Saturday. I would say this, you know, the longest serving governor in Iowa endorsed Rubio as well and we saw how that worked out.

I think we're very similar to where we were in Iowa, the polls with the ground games in place, where the governors involved. And so, we'll see what happens on Saturday.

BURNETT: You know, it is nasty on all sides. One of the things said today was from Donald Trump, who came out about Lindsey Graham who, of course, a senator who was running for president and said he was one of the dumbest human beings he's ever met. Said, he was a disgrace.

Obviously, Lindsey Graham was polling at close to zero, whereas Donald Trump points out for president. But consider the popular senator.

DUNCAN: Oh, yeah, I mean, he's our senator and he does a great job. And, you know, there are differences people in South Carolina have with Lindsey Graham. But, you know, he's definitely not dumb. He's one of the smartest politicians I know. He's been a great leader in the Senate. And I thought that was sort of, you know, bad on Trump's part to say that.

BURNETT: So, here we are looking at the latest polls here and different polls and different things, one of them our poll, 38 percent for Donald Trump, 22 for Ted Cruz. Other polls have their -- gone a little bit closer. But even so, that is a distant second if that ends up being what happens.

DUNCAN: Right.

BURNETT: Is that what you're feeling that it's a solid second for Ted Cruz, or do you still think he could pull out a win?

DUNCAN: I think we're right where we were in Iowa as I've said earlier. I don't necessarily trust polls. I think Ted Cruz has a tremendous ground game. And they're making phone calls, knocking doors today. I think he's building a momentum.

We had a great rally over in Seneca earlier where people waited over an hour, he was late, an over an hour late because of a press conference. And people hung around. They wanted to hear him and wanted to hear his positions. We had a great rally last night. So I think that Cruz is building a momentum. I don't know how solid Trump's votes are. Rubio seems to have a pretty good ground game here in South Carolina as well. So we'll see what plays out.

BURNETT: In that press conference, of course, Ted Cruz basically said, "Bring it on, Donald Trump, if you're going to threaten to sue me, go ahead and do it, go ahead and sue me." You know, he has been called a liar not just by Donald Trump but also by Marco Rubio.

[15:50:05] DUNCAN: Right.

BURNETT: How big of a concern is that for you? You know him. You chose to -- you know, you're here as a surrogate for him.

DUNCAN: Yeah.

BURNETT: When people say, "He's a nasty guy," as Donald Trump says. That he's a dishonest person, as Marco Rubio and Donald Trump have said, what's your impression?

DUNCAN: I've never seen that side of Ted Cruz. In fact, I've seen a man of integrity, a man who does what he says he's going to do.

The reason he's not well liked in Washington is, because he told the voters of Texas, he was going to go up and work to defund ObamaCare, stand up for life and try to roll back the spending and no executive amnesty. No amnesty in general. And he has done exactly what he said he would do.

The man is far from being a liar. This is dirty politics. You know, everything that he has said about Trump or Rubio has been verified by their past statements, whether on video or written record. And so, I think he runs a very clean campaign and he's been able to back everything up so far.

BURNETT: All right. Congressman Duncan, thank you very much, nice to see you.

DUNCAN: Nice to see you. Thanks for having me. And welcome to Greenville, too.

BURNETT: Here in lovely Greenville.

DUNCAN: Yeah.

BURNETT: Beautiful place and we are very excited for this town hall tonight.

Tonight, I will be here for a very special edition of OutFront as we get you ready for the big Republican town hall right here on CNN at 7:00 Eastern. I will see you then.

Next, an unbelievable development in the water crisis out of Flint, Michigan, as you know, the water there poisoned with lead, yet families there are paying some of the highest water bills in the entire nation.

How can that be? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:36] HARLOW: The horror stories out of Flint continue and continue. What a nightmare for the residents there.

Lead leaching into pipes, young children poisoned for life from that lead.

It is a problem, almost too great to comprehend and now a new study also adds insult to injury in this plagued Michigan City.

According to a report released by a public interest group, Food & Water Watch, that's the group, they describe themselves as a group that stands up to corporations that put profits before people.

Here's what they found. Look at those numbers. That the residents in Flint paid the highest water rates in America last year. Households on average in Flint paying $864 last year for their water, even as their water was tainted with lead. And by the way, they're still paying their water bills, three times more than the people in Detroit.

Let me bring in Ben Jealous, he joins us now. He's former president of the NAACP, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, also a supporter of Bernie Sanders.

Thank you for being here. We'll get to politics in a minute. I just want your reaction to these figures. I mean, I was in Flint, I interviewed the governor of Michigan. I spoke to these residents.

One mom telling me, "I have to take my kids everyday to church to shower." They can't even shower in this water, she's too scared, and yet they're paying these exorbitant water bills.

BEN JEALOUS, FORMER PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Yeah, look, it's completely insane for people to be paying so much who are getting frankly so little.

At the same time, when you talk to folks in Flint, one of the things that they also talk about is because this water that's going through their pipes now is so corrosive. You've seen more and more leaks spring up, and so you get folks who

are even paying $300 per month now because there are so much water that is just leaking from their system.

So, you know, clearly, you know, there are things that need to be done on the ground. The most important is to pull out those 15,000 or so lead lines.

HARLOW: Right.

JEALOUS: You know, pull them out, fix the problem permanently. You know, the government of Michigan has said that they're going to need about $55 million for that.

And quite frankly, if the city doesn't have it and the state doesn't have it, then Congress needs to act now to actually get those lines pulled and make sure people have safe water.

HARLOW: And just to be very clear on that actually, some news just came out this afternoon that it looks like the City of Flint is going to start doing that as soon as potentially next week, pulling those pipes up.

So, we'll be watching, certainly, CNN has the Democratic debate there in Flint on March 6th as well.

And we've heard candidates talking about it a lot across the board. John Kasich just said that we need to take a tough look at all the water rules and regulations. He called for quicker reporting, requirements, et cetera.

Before I let you go, I want to talk about your endorsement and I want to talk about the candidates on the ...

JEALOUS: Sure.

HARLOW: ... Democratic side because you've said that black Americans are doing far worse under President Obama's administration.

But take a look at this latest CNN/ORC poll from South Carolina ...

JEALOUS: Hold on for a second. Yeah, hold on for a second. That was ...

HARLOW: Sure.

JEALOUS: ... actually a headline that was corrected when it came out.

What I'd said on television was that President Obama was -- under his administration, blacks were a full point worse as far as I think it was employment at the time. That got ...

HARLOW: Got it.

JEALOUS: ... frankly misquoted by The Washington Times.

HARLOW: Got it.

JEALOUS: And, circulated. It was ultimately corrected. But I never said ...

HARLOW: Then that is -- that is my fault, I apologize. I apologize.

JEALOUS: Yeah. Sure.

HARLOW: I'm glad you corrected us. I do want your take on this before I let you go in the minute I have, the latest CNN/ORC poll shows Bernie Sanders, 65 percent to 28 percent. You've got Hillary Clinton, 65 percent to Bernie Sanders, 28 percent, in South Carolina among Democratic primary goers. How do you turn that around?

JEALOUS: You know, look, there have been polls that have also shown that the gap is just 20 points.

HARLOW: OK.

JEALOUS: People are working very hard on the ground and, quite frankly, those polls tend to not count a lot of working people who, for instance, don't have land lines at home. You get a more -- you get a richer set of voters.

And so, you know, we'll see what happens. If people are organizing and you see folks switching at everyday.

HARLOW: You definitely do. It's going to be an exciting one to watch as every state has been. Ben Jealous, please join us again. I wish we had more time.

JEALOUS: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you for coming on. All right, that'll do it for us this hour.

[16:01:00] Thanks so much for joining me and Erin. The Lead with Jake Tapper begins right now.