Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Black Voters Suggest Racism in Scalia Fight; Pope Francis Suggests Trump "Not a Christian"; Clinton: Maybe U.S. Not Ready for Female President. Aired 2:30-2p ET
Aired February 18, 2016 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR & FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: You don't know what I said, Ben.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: You don't know me, because you think I'm new to politics --
(CROSSTALK)
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK, let me finish what I was going to say. When you had --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: -- with Ted Cruz, no one played the race card, right? No one said, oh, that's a race card. Of course not. This is what happens in politics, when people get their feelings hurt, they try to claim things.
And what this is, you have people that are trying to incite and use this hot-button issue to inspire African-American voters to come out and vote because President Obama President Obama is not on the ticket. It is the easiest card to play in politics. Throw up the race card. Everyone gets fired up about it --
(CROSSTALK)
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Ben, let me jump in there.
FERGUSON: -- and then they go to the polls.
HARLOW: Let me jump in there.
FERGUSON: Sure.
HARLOW: Don't we want everyone to vote? Isn't that what is at the foundation of our country?
FERGUSON: But not --
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: Not if you're on the Republican side of the aisle, they're the folks that are --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: No, no, if you're trying --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: It's not suppression. First of all, it's not suppression --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Let me hear from Ben --
(CROSSTALK)
-- for someone to show their I.D. when voting. And that's what you're referring to. But this is again --
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: It's suppression when you cut down early voting days and absentee ballots.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: Yes, it is, Ben.
FERGUSON: Are you saying Republicans have an advantage to go vote in early voting that Democrats wouldn't have? That's absurd. You're saying white people have an advantage --
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: Are you telling me that you haven't seen the data behind who votes in early voting days, Ben.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: No, you come on.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: Look at the facts.
FERGUSON: Are you saying --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: All right, we're going to move on.
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: I need one voice at a time because you both have important points but no one can hear them when you talk over each other.
Ben, to you.
Here's one point. It's the bigger picture. Phrases like "it's time to take our country back" or "the silent majority."
FERGUSON: Yes.
HARLOW: Some will point to those, Ben, and say that is part of --
FERGUSON: Yes.
HARLOW: -- the bigger issue here. Do you see merit in that?
FERGUSON: Yeah. No, I don't. I think it's accusing issues to then try to turn into a racial issue. I have seen Republicans run against other Republicans saying when the Tea Party, it's time to take our country back. It's conservative against conservative, Hispanic against Hispanic, a white against a white. This is cherry-picking on purpose, trying to ignite a race war in this campaign to inspire minority voters. I think it's the cheapest form of politics out there. I think all of these things that have been said have been said in other contexts and no one claimed the race card. When Democrats were trying to stop Alito, when Schumer was saying we're going to filibuster, no one claims it was race, because they knew it wasn't race. But now it's convenient to then say let's call the race card. It gets everybody excited. The Jesses and the Al Sharptons come out and start screaming racism --
RYE: Wow, wow.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: -- and they think that's getting voters out there --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Let me point out one thing, Ben, a lot of quotes are from average folk in South Carolina. They're not from political pundits. So your point, I hear, saying --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: No, and this --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: -- this is how these people feel.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Right, and people -- look, they knew there was going to be a reaction. The same way Hillary Clinton is throwing down this new card that she did. It's the same exact play, saying, well, women, you must support women, and women need not be afraid to back another woman. Remember what they said, what was it, a week and a half ago, if a woman doesn't support a woman, there's a special place in hell for you. The same card, just with a different context. One is a sex card, now a race card. It's a way to motivate voters and it does work on some.
HARLOW: Angela, every president gets a lot of heat. George W. Bush, President Clinton. A white southerner was impeached. Why is it race this time?
RYE: For all of the reasons I said at the beginning of this segment, Poppy, for all of the reasons that Ben said were not racial, because the Tea Party was talking from new conservative wing of the party, ultraconservative wing of the party to the establishment. I don't agree with any of that. This is dog whistle politics. These are terms familiar to many of us. It means something very different. I'm not heard this refuted. There's racism in and through the GOP side of this race. We are seeing race used as a --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: That's the race card.
RYE: I'm not finished.
We're seeing race used on the Democratic side of this. This is a bi- party challenge and problem. Both parties have to deal with this. While I'm so glad that Marco Rubio acknowledged that racism exists, the fact he's willing to say there's no political solution to it, last night during your town hall, is a problem. I hope he at least understands there are policy solutions. We have race issues in this country. If we didn't, there wouldn't be white folks who are polled saying they wish things could go back --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Poppy.
(CROSSTALK)
RYE: I'm not finished.
Wishing they could go back to 1950s when things were better. That was before desegregation. If racism wasn't an issue in this country, we wouldn't hear people saying things like race relations have worsened under President Obama and it's his fault.
HARLOW: I've got to leave it there.
RYE: He's not a race baiter. That's not him.
HARLOW: I have to leave it there.
Angela, Ben --
(CROSSTALK)
HARLOW: Ben, I have to leave it there. Ben, I have to leave it there.
You will both be back, I promise. Thank you very much.
FERGUSON: Thanks, Poppy.
[14:34:58] HARLOW: Next, more on our breaking news. Donald Trump in a war of words with this man, the pope. Why the pope suggested Trump is not a Christian. You'll hear from him.
Also, Ted Cruz sings. Sings to his wife, Heidi. He admits he doesn't have a very good voice, but he sang last night on that stage. Ben Carson reveals what he does to relax and Marco Rubio admits if he's ever been to a rave. More personal moments next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erin Burnett live in Columbia, South Carolina.
Donald Trump, something happened today you thought would never happen, and that is an altercation with Pope Francis. Going so far as to suggest Trump is not a Christian. Pretty stunning. The pope was taking questions from reporters on a flight to Rome after a visit to the U.S./Mexican border, responding to Trump's plan to build a wall along that border and the accusations the pope is political.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:40:22] POPE FRANCIS (through translation): A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be located, and not building bridges, is not a Christian. This is not in the Gospel.
As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not a Christian if he has said things like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: I want to bring in our CNN political contributor, David Chalian.
We were talking at the beginning of the hour, no one could believe this morning this is what we would be talking about. But it is a pretty incredible thing that the pope would actually wade in, not just on U.S. presidential politics, but to call an individual not a Christian.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Listen, this proof has proven to be remarkably political.
(CROSSTALK)
CHALIAN: No doubt. He's gotten involved, from climate change to the economy to ISIS. No matter what the political issue of the day is, this pope has not shied away from getting involved. So shouldn't surprise any of us he would wade in to a U.S. presidential race. What I think is fascinating, Erin, watch how Donald Trump's opponents
are reacting to this. They sort of step away from it. They're not looking to get into sort of disagreement between Donald Trump and the pope. Most saying, listen, Donald Trump's faith is between him and God and his immigration plans are a separate thing and I don't think they're looking to pile on with the pope and try to egg on Trump either.
BURNETT: A pretty shocking thing in one sense, though, and it appears, from a lot of the conversation, that a lot of people don't really agree with the pope saying who is or who is not a Christian.
CHALIAN: That is a tricky terrain, no doubt, religion and politics.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, these things are obviously not the norm of what we expect to see two days before the South Carolina primary. But I don't think it surprises anyone, if you've followed along, how this pope has handled his papacy that he would go there. This issue of immigration has been important to him. Trump says he put immigration front and center in this campaign. So I can't imagine he'd be too surprised this would come up.
BURNETT: It's fascinating. When you first saw the pope, saying Donald Trump isn't a Christian, you say, that can't be right, let me look at what he said. You read it and say, yes, indeed, that is what he said.
OK. When we get ready for this town hall tonight, of course, Donald Trump is going to be here. One of the things that stood out to me last night was those personal moments. You never get enough of that. But we see so much of the scripted or the hateful, we rarely see the personal. We did a little bit last night. Let me just play a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you do to relax?
DR. BEN CARSON, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & RETIRED NEUROSURGEON: Play pool.
COOPER: Play pool.
CARSON: I love to play pool.
COOPER: Are you competitive when you play pool?
CARSON: I like to win.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Your wife mentioned that you occasionally, when you call her on the phone, you sing to her, you sing musicals, is that true?
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, embarrassingly enough, yes.
(SINGING)
COOPER: You like EDM.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R), FLORIDA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do.
COOPER: Electronic dance music.
RUBIO: Yes. Maybe people thought it was something else.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Have you ever been to a rave?
RUBIO: Well, no, no. I've never been to a rave, no.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Well, I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: One of my favorite moments of the whole thing was when Marco Rubio said EDM. People probably thought it was something else, right. And he said what do you mean, I've never been to a rave. It was funny, a sense humor.
CHALIAN: These personal questions have been fantastic. We saw it on the Democratic side too with our town halls there. It's an opportunity in a more intimate setting for voters to learn a little something different. I've never heard Ted Cruz sing. I've never heard him sing a few bars of a song before.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: You may never want to again.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CHALIAN: Exactly.
BURNETT: As you're coming up and talking about what are the questions going to be tonight, you're in a tough spot. The team coming in tonight, you don't want them to be ready for their personal question. Do you ask the same question? Do you try to come up with something different?
CHALIAN: I think this realm of town hall is endless. There are endless opportunities to sort of peel the layers of the onion back of who these people are that are seeking the presidency. There are tons of questions you can get at that with. You don't have to ask the same questions.
[14:44:42] BURNETT: Thank you, partier, David Chalian, our political director.
What are they going to ask? He is the guy who knows.
Coming up, Hillary Clinton says in a new interview that maybe the United States isn't ready for a woman president. It was in an interview where they took this picture of her, which is stunning in many ways. Why she said that, next.
Plus, my next guest says she dreads the moment that America elects a female president, but not for the reasons you might expect. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Is the United States, this country really ready for a female president? That is a question being asked on the campaign trail now. The person it is coming from, that may surprise you. It comes from the only woman still in the race to be the next commander-in-chief. In a fascinating, very revealing interview with "Vogue," Hillary Clinton says, quote, "People are very convinced they want to vote for the right person, and then you get little hints maybe they're not as comfortable with a woman being in an executive position."
In just two days, we'll know from voters in Nevada how they feel. Will they support Clinton? Take a look at this CNN/ORC poll. Just four months ago, she had a strong lead, a 16-point lead over Sanders. To date, they are neck and neck, statistically, a dead heat.
CNN political correspondent, Brianna Keilar, in Las Vegas; also Alisa Rosenberg, a culture columnist for "The Washington Post" and a supporter of Clinton.
Bri, let me begin with you. Nevada, a very different electorate, much more diverse than Iowa and New Hampshire. We saw how the polls changed in the past few months. What's Clinton doing on the trail to get those minority votes?
[14:50:29] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a more diverse state, mainly, Poppy, due to a sizable Hispanic majority which Hillary Clinton does pretty well with. From the get- go, coming out here last spring, for her first campaign event in Nevada, she focused very much on immigration. We're seeing that today with a new ad she's out with airing here in Nevada, where she's talking about the fear of deportations. Here's part of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My parents, they have a letter of deportation. I'm scared for them because they might be deported.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Come here. Come here.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: I'm going to do everything I can so you don't have to be scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: That was an event that happened here in Nevada last weekend.
But you also see Bernie Sanders, Poppy, trying to cut into Hillary Clinton's support with Hispanic voters, talking about how he in favor of a pathway to citizenship, like the one that Hillary Clinton supports, but he's also really getting some very favorable reaction here from white voters. And that's also going to be very key during the caucuses. Not to mention the caucuses are pretty unpredictable. So it really is a nail-biter here in Nevada.
HARLOW: Alisa, you had this fascinating piece entitled, "I Dread What Will Happen When America Finally Elects a Woman President." This, coming from you, an opinion piece. You are a Clinton supporter. Take me beyond the headline here.
ALISA ROSENBERG, CULTURE COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Sure. I mean, I think that there's this stereotype, or a stereotypical joke almost of people who worry about women and leadership, you know, what will happen when they have their periods, what will happen if they have -- you know, something bad happen in their families. What I'm scared of is when the first woman becomes president, I think we'll have this enormous sexist backlash. It will be lovely to believe when we hit that historic milestone that America will enter a new era, that voting for the first woman president will indicate a kind of, you know, true war of the sexes and maybe we can move forward. Unfortunately, we're coming off eight years that demonstrates just how naive that optimism really is.
It was incredibly easy for Americans to feel self-congratulatory about electing Barack Obama, but I think the last eight years have proved that his election brought so many of America's lingering racial fissures to the surface in a really blunt way. I think, to a certain extent, that's a productive thing for the country to go through. But you know, having grown up dreaming of the day when a woman would be president of the United States, I now see that as a period in our history to sort of be got through and to be endured rather than necessarily something that's going to feel cleansing.
HARLOW: You note at the end of the piece, well, if it's her, then at least she'll be able to deal with it, you say, and another woman won't have to go through it, if that's the case.
But, Brianna, the fact she has endured all these attacks sort of embodies this "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" thing going on. Do you think that that helps her?
KEILAR: Yes, and guess what one of her campaign songs is, it's Kelly Clarkson's "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes You Stronger." So I think that's part of the sentiment she feels. I think, for Hillary Clinton and those around her, they look back to 2008, where I think they were really sort of surprised by what they thought was sexism that they saw leveled at her. I think this time you don't see that quite as much. I think more the sentiment that's prevailing is they feel that Bernie Sanders, for instance, now in this primary battle a little more un- vetted and is being given more of a pass than she is. And that's the criticism more than you're hearing coming from her campaign.
HARLOW: Fascinating to see what's happening with young female voters who aren't necessarily backing her, who are saying we'll see a female president in our lifetime, doesn't have to be this one.
I wish we had more time.
Alisa, we'll have you back on. I promise.
Bri, thank you.
Alisa, thank you very much.
ROSENBERG: Thank you.
[14:54:43] HARLOW: I point you to her piece as well on all of this.
Coming up, another bizarre twist on the campaign trail over this picture. Does it look real? Real or Photoshopped? What do you think? It's Rubio apparently shaking hands with the president. The problem is Rubio says, "That's not me." Next, the Photoshop controversy that is erupting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Richard Horn (ph) is quite the Renaissance man, musician, woodworker, magician.
RICHARD HORN (ph), NEUROSCIENTIST DIAGNOSED WITH PARKINSON'S DISEASE I can literally turn them into one.
GUPTA: A neuroscientist by trade, he's also a professor emeritus of physiology at Thomas Jefferson University.
HORN (ph): I am a passionate man in many ways.
GUPTA: When Richard was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease in 2010, he thought he would have to give up what he loved.
HORN (ph): It was devastating because I saw all the beauty and magic and music being taken away from me.
GUPTA (voice-over): Parkinson's disease is a progressive motor system disorder that can cause a gradual loss of movement. Symptoms are mild at first. Sometimes it's a hand tremor. But eventually balance and coordination can also start to deteriorate. Treatments can slow the progression but, as things stand now, there is no cure.
(MUSIC)
GUPTA (voice-over): Richard refuses to let the disease stop him.
(MUSIC)
GUPTA: The 70-year-old still plays piano several times a week.
HORN (ph): It improves my coordination pretty dramatically.
Everybody gets four cards.
GUPTA: And performs magic.
