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Justice Antonin Scalia to Lie in Repose at the Supreme Court; Republicans Square Off in CNN Two Hall; Democrats Go Down to the Wire in Nevada; Scalia's Casket Arrives at Supreme Court. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired February 19, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:01] PEREIRA: Hope he doesn't retire for some time.

CUOMO: I love it. The guy is so big but his biggest muscle is his heart.

PEREIRA: It's his heart. Absolutely. We love hearts. Time for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello who's live from the U.S. Supreme Court.

Hi, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. It's a nice way to end the show. You guys have a great day. Thank you.

NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Standing outside of the U.S. Supreme Court, a day of somber ceremony and heartfelt tributes. So many people already here waiting to pay their respects to Justice Antonin Scalia.

Just minutes from now a motorcade will leave this funeral home with the body of the justice inside heading from Fairfax, Virginia, here to the U.S. Supreme Court. As I said people already lining up on the sidewalk outside.

Justice Scalia will lie in repose inside the building's great hall on the very platform that once held the casket of Abraham Lincoln. There will be a private ceremony and then in the next hour the public will begin filing past the flag-draped coffin.

The president and first lady expected to pay their respects sometime this afternoon.

Justice Antonin Scalia, Nino to his friends and family, was known as a conservative stalwart on the court. Scalia was a line of legal matters to the Republican Party but he was also a master of words. One publication coining the term, "Scali-galese." And perhaps the funniest of the nine justices as he cracked jokes from the bench.

Today, thousands, as I said, expected to pay their respects.

Pamela Brown is out among the crowds this morning. Good morning, Pamela. PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol.

Already a few dozen members of the public are lining up waiting to pay their respects to Justice Scalia. We expect his casket to arrive here within the next 20 minutes or so.

The casket will be brought up the marble stairs behind me, by court police, and Justice Scalia's former clerks will act as honorary pallbearers.

The casket will be brought into the Great Hall and from there that's where the private ceremony will be with current justices, also former Justice Souter will be there. We've learned members of Justice Scalia's family, we know he has nine children, 36 grandchildren. So the family members will be in there as well as former clerks.

And after that private ceremony wraps up, that is when members of the public will be allowed in to pay their respects until 8:00 tonight. We expect President Obama to come later this afternoon with the first lady to pay respects.

As we know, Carol, the president will not be attending the funeral. The funeral mass tomorrow at the Basilica. Instead, that will be Vice President Biden.

The fact the president isn't going has raised some eyebrows but the White House says it felt like this was the appropriate way to pay respects to Justice Scalia. Vice President Biden had a personal relationship with the family and shares his Catholic faith.

Scalia's son Paul who's a priest we know will be leading that ceremony tomorrow at the Basilica, and despite the political fight going on right now, Carol, over Scalia's vacancy here at the high court, today and tomorrow will really be all about Justice Scalia and the public having a chance to mourn and pay respects -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Because he was a very well-respected justice, Pamela Brown. He had a very large family. You mentioned his son who is a priest. His name is Paul. Justice Scalia had nine children. He has 36 grandchildren.

We managed to dig up an old picture of Justice Scalia's family. And as you can see -- we'll put it up on the screen here in a bit. Just look like a traditional family, very faithful family because as you know Justice Scalia was a very observant Catholic.

I want to bring in senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin right now. He kind of wrote the book on the Supreme Court.

It will be very ceremonious today and it's interesting what will happen inside the Great Hall of the Supreme Court because the casket will be there. It will be set on a platform that held the casket of Abraham Lincoln. There will be a portrait of Antonin Scalia that was painted by a famous artist who painted the portraits of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

And what I find interesting about this portrait is it came from the Harvard School of Law, which is Justice Scalia's alma mater and it depicts the justice with his hand on a stack of books including the International Webster Dictionary and the Federalist Papers. Why is that? What's the symbolism?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, he was a great believer in what was called texturalism, which was words mean what they mean. We don't ask legislators what they meant when they pass a law. It's irrelevant what their intent was. All we look at are the words themselves, the text. And that was one of the most influential aspects of his tenure as chief justice.

But, Carol, if I could just call people's attention to something that's going to happen even before we get inside. You know, the Supreme Court rarely appears in public. There were of course no cameras in the courtroom, but when the casket is brought in, all the justices will line up on the steps. You know, or right directly behind us, and we'll see them all together.

[09:05:09] And the last time I saw them all together that way was 2005 for Chief Justice Rehnquist's funeral, and it's -- it is, to me, and I think to a lot of people, a very moving thing to see the justices line up. They do everything in seniority order. Everything at the Supreme Court is based on seniority. The chief justice is always first, regardless of how long he's been on the court.

COSTELLO: John Roberts will be first.

TOOBIN: John Roberts will be first. And it had been Antonin Scalia, the senior associate justice. So he will no longer be there. Anthony Kennedy, who was confirmed the year after Justice Scalia in 1987, will be next. Then Clarence Thomas, and then, you know, all the rest of the justices, and it is really the physical manifestation of the changing of the guard. And that's what we'll see.

COSTELLO: Ruth Bader Ginsburg was supposedly Justice Scalia's best bud, right? She'll be there, too, of course.

TOOBIN: Notwithstanding their profound disagreements about the law, she will be there. She is -- everybody moves up a step in seniority, and, you know, she is now right in the middle of the court in terms of seniority. And it's -- they were very close. They spent New Year's Eve together. Their families. Justice Ginsburg's late husband Marty Ginsburg was a famous gourmet chef. Antonin Scalia was a famous gourmet eater. So it was a very good combination.

They spent the day -- they spent New Year's eves together. Both Justice Ginsburg and Justice Scalia were big opera fans. That's something that they had in common. And they served together for decades. Not just on this court but on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. So these people all go way back.

COSTELLO: I know. I think that's beautiful because it shows you can have bitter disagreements about politics and other things and you can still remain friends and civil to one another and that should be celebrated on this day. TOOBIN: It is. And we're in the midst of a presidential campaign

that is not always so civil, and there was no disguising and no prettying up the substantive disagreements that Ruth Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia had, but they --

COSTELLO: And they were over big issues, too.

TOOBIN: They were big issues.

COSTELLO: Like abortion, affirmative action. Right?

TOOBIN: Gay rights. And -- but they kept it -- they kept it civil outside of court, and that's a good thing.

COSTELLO: OK. So stick around.

TOOBIN: I'll be here.

COSTELLO: And we're waiting --

TOOBIN: So just keep an eye, and we see the step.

COSTELLO: Yes.

TOOBIN: They're all going to line up right on the steps right there. And it's just worth --

COSTELLO: Yes.

TOOBIN: It's just worth keeping an eye on the justices as they come down the stairs.

COSTELLO: As far as we know Justice Scalia's body remains in Fairfax, Virginia, at a funeral home. It's slowly making its way here to the U.S. Supreme Court and soon we'll see that and also it'll be interesting to see who the pallbearers are, too, because it's traditionally, what, members of the Supreme Court's police force, right?

TOOBIN: It's up to the family. The family has decided that it is the Supreme Court's police force who will carry the casket in. The actual pallbearers. But again out -- on the steps of the court, the honorary pallbearers will Justice Scalia's law clerks and it's just a very large group by now. Because 30 years, four law clerks as year. Plus his clerks when he was on the D.C. Circuit. I mean, it's, you know, it's going to be well more than, you know, 100 people assuming they all come, and, you know, it just shows the very close personal relationship between the justice and his law clerks.

COSTELLO: Absolutely.

TOOBIN: And we'll see.

COSTELLO: So you stay right here as we watch things unfold.

I have to talk a little bit about politics because we are in a political season, as you well know. We're just hours away from the South Carolina GOP primary and that means the candidates are making their last pitch to voters. Later this hour, Jeb Bush and former first lady Barbara Bush hold a meet and greet in Spartanburg. Rival Marco Rubio already out on the campaign trail. These are live pictures actually from Columbia, South Carolina, where Rubio is holding his first of five events today.

And in round two of CNN's town halls with Anderson Cooper last night, Donald Trump's public spat with the Pope takes center stage as Bush and Kasich try to convince voters they're the better choice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to build a wall. I don't like fighting with the Pope.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm pro-Pope. OK? Put me down in the pro-Pope column.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I like your boots.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do, too.

(LAUGHTER)

BUSH: Because introverts set goals.

COOPER: Right, yes.

BUSH: And they grind.

COOPER: Yes.

BUSH: And they just like -- they just go at it. You know? Which is a pretty good thing to be when you're running for president, when you've been written off over and over and over again.

TRUMP: Iraq did not knock down the World Trade Center.

BUSH: And I remember exactly what she looked like to this day, 45 years ago, and I fell madly in love. Head over heels, lightning bolt in love. I lost -- I was skinnier back then.

KASICH: But if you're not going to do what I'm doing, then tell me what it is you're going to do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So many touching moments last night. All of this happening as a new CNN poll of polls shows Trump holding on to the top spot in the poll in that state.

CNN's Athena Jones live in Spartanburg, South Carolina, to tell us more. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's what the great thing about those town halls, the candidates have a moment to have an extended conversation, not just with the folks right here in South Carolina but all across the country. And last night we saw a more subdued Donald Trump at least when it comes to the dust-up over the Pope.

But last night was more a chance for these candidates not so much to make direct attacks against each other but to argue their case for why they would make the best nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): On night two of CNN's GOP town hall, Donald Trump toning down the rhetoric in his feud with the Pope, but turning up the heat on former president George W. Bush.

TRUMP: He started something that destroyed the Middle East. It started ISIS.

JONES: The billionaire questioning Bush's reasons for going to war in Iraq, but dancing around a previous claim that Bush's administration lied about their knowledge of weapons of mass destruction.

TRUMP: Well, a lot of people agree with what I said, and I'm not talking about lying. I'm not talking about not lying. Nobody really knows why we went into Iraq. I don't know what he did, I just know it was a terrible mistake.

COOPER: So was it a mistake for you to say in that debate that you thought he lied?

TRUMP: I'd have to see the exact wording, look, I don't know. I would probably say that something was going on. I don't know why he went in.

JONES: Trump dismissing an interview with Howard Stern in 2002 where he made comments supporting the war.

COOPER: He asked you, are you for invading Iraq? You said, yes, I guess so. You know I wish the first time it was done correctly. Is that accurate? Do you remember saying that?

TRUMP: No, but I mean, I could have said that. Nobody asked me, I wasn't a politician. It was probably the first time anybody asked me that question.

JONES: The frontrunner backtracking after calling Pope Francis disgraceful for questioning his faith. The Pope criticized Trump's continual comments to build a wall as not Christian.

TRUMP: And he also talked about having a wall is not Christian, and he's got an awfully big wall at the Vatican, I will tell you. But I think it was probably a little bit nicer statement than what was reported by you folks in the media. I have a lot of respect for the Pope. I think he's got a lot of personality.

JONES: His rivals Jeb Bush and John Kasich having mixed reactions to the Pope's remarks.

KASICH: Here's what I will say, we have a right to build a wall but I got to tell you, there are too many walls between us. We need bridges between us if we're going to fix the problems in Washington because all they do is have walls.

BUSH: But I don't question people's Christianity. I think that's a relationship they have with their lord and savior and themselves. So I just don't think it's appropriate to question Donald Trump's faith. He knows what his faith is, and he has, if he has a relationship with the Lord, fantastic. If he doesn't, it's none of my business.

JONES: Bush taking an apparent dig at Trump later while listing the good things about being a self-proclaimed introvert.

BUSH: Listening allows you to learn and then you have a chance to lead rather than, you know, being a big blow hard and just talking all the time. What are you going to learn when you're talking? Nothing.

JONES: With his mother, former first lady Barbara Bush, in the audience, Jeb gushed about this family.

BUSH: It's a blast being with George because I love him dearly. I realized pretty quickly in my life if I could be half the man my dad was that that would be a pretty good goal.

JONES: So did Kasich. The Ohio governor sharing how he grew in faith after losing his parents in a car accident.

KASICH: It's really where I found the Lord. Life is -- it's so rocky. It's so fragile. We have to build our homes, our lives, our homes, on solid granite, not on sand. And I have found that even though the pain still comes, there's where I have to go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: So we saw Kasich's sensitive, compassionate side on display last night. Meanwhile, Jeb Bush's most passionate remarks were about his family and just coming up in a few minutes from now he'll be appearing with his popular mother, the former first lady Barbara Bush at this restaurant here in Spartanburg, just the first of several stops to try to win over undecided voters here -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones reporting live from South Carolina this morning.

And as Republicans battle for South Carolina Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are looking west. The rivals entering the final stretch before the Nevada caucuses.

And the nail-biter in that state reflecting a tightening race nationwide. Our senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns joins us with that part of the story, the Democratic side.

Good morning, Joe. JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Definitely neck and neck. The question in the Nevada caucuses is always, who's going to show up? So it's all about getting supporters out to caucus right now. Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, pressing voters today ending up at a big rally this evening at the Clark County Government Center.

Bernie Sanders for his part starting out in Elko at a town hall today, expected to end up with a concert and a rally in Henderson, Nevada, outside of Las Vegas.

[09:15:00] So a super full day for both of these candidates. One day before the caucuses -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Talked about Nevada, but it's a whole different story in South Carolina right? Because Clinton has a big lead there.

JOHNS: Right, right, right, right. Latest poll of polls in South Carolina showing Hillary Clinton with 24 percent advantage in South Carolina, leading Bernie Sanders 56-32 percent.

Later today, by the way, we do expect Hillary Clinton to get the endorsement of Democratic South Carolina Congressman Jim Clyburn. He'd been holding off endorsing anybody, but now, it's our understanding he is headed over to the Clinton camp, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live from Washington this morning. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: the ceremony for Justice Scalia to begin soon. You're looking at the funeral home in Fairfax, Virginia. That's where the body of Justice Scalia is right now. Soon, a hearse will leave those doors and begin the journey to the U.S. Supreme Court, to the great hall where the public at 10:30 Eastern Time will be able to pay their respects to the late justice.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:03] COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello live from the U.S. Supreme Court, where you can see a ceremony is about to get underway, as we await the arrival of the casket of Justice Antonin Scalia. All of those people lining up are his former law clerks.

I want to bring in Jeffrey Toobin. He's the expert in all things Supreme Court.

And it just looks beautiful, right?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It is really. It a physical symbol of how close law clerks are to their -- to the judge they serve. Many of Supreme Court law clerks go on to prominent positions in the legal community. In that group among them are possible Supreme Court nominees themselves, people like Paul Clement, who clerked for Justice Scalia. He was President George W. Bush's solicitor general, and a prominent advocate before the Supreme Court.

He's in that groom. Jeffrey Sutton, another prominent judge on the sixth court of appeals is there. Paul Cappuccio, who is the general counsel to our parent company, Time Warner, is in that group. I don't see them there.

It is -- I think you have to say, as you can look, an overwhelmingly white, male group. Justice Scalia almost all of his clerks were white men, as you can see, in that group. And they are awaiting the arrival of the hearse, in a few minutes, I think.

COSTELLO: Yes, in a few minutes.

TOOBIN: If tradition holds. The justices themselves will appear on the stairway to pay their respects publicly.

COSTELLO: And just a word about how many law clerks there are. Keep in mind, Justice Scalia was, what, appointed in 1986 by President Reagan.

So, all of them representing a different era, right?

TOOBIN: Right. And many of them are now, you know, the law clerks tend to clerk for the Supreme Court two years out of law school, but -- so that means they're in their late 20s. Those people who are -- clerked 30 years ago are in their mid and late 50s.

So, this is an entire generation of prominent lawyers. Each justice has four law clerks. So, it's four every year times 30 years. That's 120 people. That's -- that's a lot of lawyers.

COSTELLO: I want to tell people what's going on go on in the U.S. hall of the Supreme Court. So, once the justice' casket arrives it will be placed on a wooden pedestal that once held the casket of Abraham Lincoln. There will be a prayer service inside. It will be a private ceremony. We'll get to listen in.

And Justice Scalia's son, one of his sons, is a priest. His name is Paul Scalia, and he'll say a prayer. We expect family members to be in attendance. Their backs probably to the camera to offer them some privacy and then I would suspect the, Scalia's fellow justices will also be in the room at the time of that private ceremony.

TOOBIN: That's right. They will line up in seniority order as the Supreme Court justices always do. Everything is done by seniority.

I -- this brings back a memory for me when I, in 2005, when Justice Scalia -- when Chief Justice Rehnquist died they had a similar ceremony. His casket lay in repose at, in the great hall of the Supreme Court and I happened to be there when Justice Scalia walked by.

And Justice Scalia was not just an opera fan. He was an operatic personality and I have such a vivid memory of Justice Scalia standing by Chief Justice Rehnquist casket weeping uncontrollably and unapologetically and publicly. And I thought it was -- just -- it was so moving and it was so real

and it was very characteristic of Justice Scalia's personality, which was, did not hold many secrets. You always knew what Justice Scalia was thinking.

COSTELLO: There are many, many Scaliaisms out there.

I want to bring in Ed Whelan. He's a former law clerk for Justice Scalia.

Ed, welcome.

ED WHELAN, FORMER LAW CLERK FOR JUSTICE SCALIA (via telephone): I'm deeply sorry not to be there.

COSTELLO: Oh, we're sorry you're not here in person, either, but just the sight of this must be moving to you?

WHELAN: Very much so.

COSTELLO: So, tell me what's going through your mind?

WHELAN: Well, I was up in -- pardon me. Doing it the last several days, I've been reflecting on the justice's life, his legacy what a great friend and mentor he was to me. How much he's meant to the law, just what a deep loss this is, and I just admire him so much.

COSTELLO: You sound so emotional, Ed. Was he more than just a boss to you?

WHELAN: Well, he was a hero of mine. Pardon my voice. He was a friend, as I said, he was a mentor, guided me throughout my life. He was a model. So, yes. It's a -- very sad time.

COSTELLO: Oh, Ed, I'm so happy that you're joining us.

[09:25:03] I just wish I could give you a hug right now.

Jeffrey, tell us -- the relationship between a clerk and a judge, because I would imagine that you're with that person for lengthy periods of time every day. And you put your total trust in one another.

TOOBIN: And keep in mind that the deliberations of the Supreme Court are intensely secret. This is a town full of leaks. The Supreme Court opinions never, ever leak before they are announced. You know, when we sit in the courtroom awaiting decisions, we do not know what the results are, but the law clerks all know for weeks, if not months, what the decisions are, and they help craft the opinions and most of the -- most of the justices have their law clerks write first drafts of the -- of the opinions.

And the combination of the high stakes and the secrecy, meaning the only people they can discuss these cases with are each other, leads to these intense emotional intellectual bonds. COSTELLO: Ed, I've been reading a lot about Justice Scalia over the

past couple of days, and such a colorful personality. One of his idols was Sir Thomas More, the patron saint of lawyers, supposedly and Justice Scalia often wore, I don't know if you ever saw the famous painting of Sir Thomas More. Always wore a distinctive hat and Justice Scalia wore that very same events to like inaugurations of presidents.

Tell us, Ed, why Justice Scalia admired Sir Thomas More so much?

WHELAN: Well, of course, Saint Thomas More was a brilliant jurist. He was deeply faithful to his faith. He paid his life for it.

I think Justice Scalia recognized Saint Thomas More as a model of integrity. He is the patron saint of lawyers. Thomas More, that is, of course. And Justice Scalia saw him as a model for all lawyers to try to follow, both in his -- in his fidelity to the law and in his fidelity to the faith.

COSTELLO: I want to go closer to the Supreme Court now. Pamela Brown is also covering this for us. Tell us some of the people you're seeing over there, Pam.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, a very somber scene here as the high court, as you see, members of the court police are standing here waiting for the casket to arrive, and behind them, many of Justice Scalia's former clerks are here. He had 120 clerks over his three decades here as a justice at the Supreme Court. Some of them are lined up outside, presumably some of his family members.

We know that Paul Scalia, Father Paul Scalia, who is a priest, will be leading the private ceremony today. He is expected to be in attendance. Some of his former clerks will be the honorary pallbearers, including Paul Clement, a former solicitor general.

And also, interesting, as we look at the former clerks lined up here, many people don't know this about Justice Scalia, but over the years, he liked to have at least one liberal clerk to help challenge his opinions, and so, presumably, some of those former clerks will be here as well.

We expect the casket to arrive here shortly. Traditionally, in the past with Chief Justice William Rehnquist, his memorial, the justices -- the current justices would line up on the steps. We're being told that that is not the plan for today.

The justices, the current ones, Retired Justice Souter will be inside for the private ceremony. That will be led, again, by Paul Scalia.

And we know the casket is arriving now. Back to you.

COSTELLO: All right. Yes, Pamela -- yes, Pamela, let's just watch this unfold.

(JUSTICE SCALIA'S CASKET ARRIVES)