Return to Transcripts main page
ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
GOP Candidates Crisscross South Carolina Day Before Primary; Clinton, Sanders in Tight Race Hours Before Caucuses; Trump Was For Iraq War Before He Opposed It; Thousands Pay Tribute to Justice Scalia. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired February 19, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:12] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, the final countdown. Two major states voting tomorrow. This is Donald Trump gives up a fight with the Pope and takes on Apple instead.
And the Democrats get nasty in Nevada. Clinton booed for slamming Sanders. And Sanders says Clinton is cozying up to President Obama only for the black vote.
Plus, was Donald Trump for the Iraq war before he was against it? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Jim Sciutto in tonight for Erin Burnett. And OUTFRONT tonight, a fight to the finish. We are less than 12 hours away from the polls opening in South Carolina and the stakes couldn't be higher. For many of the candidates, this state is make or break territory. And if Trump wins, history is on his side. Every Republican candidate who has won both New Hampshire and South Carolina has gone on to win the nomination. The GOP candidates are crisscrossing the palmetto state to make their final pitches to voters. The things have got nasty in the state known for its southern hospitality with all of the candidates on the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've watched my brother do something extraordinary, which was to lead us through a difficult time and yes, Mr. Trump, he did keep us safe after 9/11. You're just dead wrong.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the Republican Party had any guts, they would have terminated Cruz from that election because honestly he cheated like a dog. You know, he holds up the Bible and then he cheats.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's easy to say let's make America great again. You can even print that on a baseball cap, but the question to ask is do you understand what made America great in the first place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: And tonight Donald Trump is going after a new target, Apple, calling on his supporters to boycott the company until it complies with a court order to unlock the iPhone of one of the San Bernardino shooters. Right now, you're looking at live pictures of a Donald Trump rally in North Charleston. It is his last campaign event before voters go to the polls.
Sara Murray is with the Trump campaign. So, Sara, you look at the polls. It's a big lead for Donald Trump. Do they feel they've got this one in the bag?
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think they are feeling confident. Look, it is Donald Trump's tough talk and brash style that took him to the top of the GOP field and he is sticking with that strategy tonight not only taking on his GOP rivals, but also taking one of the country's leading tech companies.
MURRAY (voice-over): After a blistering week in the palmetto state --
TRUMP: Ted Cruz is the biggest liar I've ever seen.
MURRAY: Donald Trump is using the final hours before Saturday's primary to go for the jugular.
TRUMP: I'll tell you what was good. Even Marco Rubio said he's a liar. And when a politician says another politician is a liar, I never heard that before, I felt so good.
MURRAY: All was Ted Cruz spiked his own two front war.
CRUZ: Here in South Carolina these next 21 hours are going to decide a great deal.
MURRAY: Cruz trying to gain on Trump and fend off Marco Rubio as he cast the Florida senator as a shape shifter on immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marco Rubio burned us once. He shouldn't get the chance to sell us out again.
MURRAY: While the top tier goes to battle, others are looking to land their closing arguments with a softer touch.
Both John Kasich and Jeb Bush fighting to ensure their campaigns survive beyond South Carolina.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I mean, people thought we would get, you know, like maybe two or three votes. And I think we're going to do better than that.
MURRAY: As Bush bet on his family ties to give him a boost. BARBARA BUSH, FORMER FIRST LADY: Jeb has been a great son, great
father, great husband, married well, and is one of my four favorite sons.
MURRAY: Meanwhile, there's no sign Trump plans to water down his bombastic style. Just a day after going to battle with the Pope, tonight Trump is calling for a boycott on Apple products until the tech company agrees to unlock an iPhone that belonged to one of the San Bernardino killers.
TRUMP: First of all, Apple ought to give the security for that phone. OK? What I think you ought to do is boycott Apple until such time as they give that security number. How do you like that? I just thought of it. Boycott Apple.
MURRAY: Now Trump doubled down on that Apple boycott as soon as he took the stage here in North Charleston, but you heard him say earlier that it was a sort of hastily called boycott and we're seeing that on the ground here. A number of his volunteers are still using iPads to sell Donald Trump merchandise here at this event -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: A good spot there Sara Murray, the iPhones and iPads still out in force.
OUTFRONT now, Pastor Mark Burns, he is supporting Donald Trump for president and CNN political commentator and the host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Ben Ferguson.
Ben, looking at this battle with Apple. Yesterday it was the Pope. Now it's Apple.
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Yes, it's Apple.
SCIUTTO: Is that a smart fight for Donald Trump to pick today, particularly before South Carolina?
[19:05:20] FERGUSON: Look, it's a populist move. It's a very smart move to say that Apple should look into the cell phone of a terrorist but then you go look at the details. And it's pretty obvious that Donald Trump has not looked at these details. He has got at his own staff out there using iPhones, tweeting from iPhones, selling products on an iPhone. And this is one of those things that goes back the issue of, he loves to talk about honesty. He loves to talk about other people being liars. He loves to talk about Ted Cruz being dishonest.
How dishonest is it for a candidate to say boycott Apple while all of his employees are using the same products to boycott and selling Donald Trump's merchandise on the campaign trail using that exact technology? I mean, if Ted Cruz was doing it, he'd be saying he's a hypocrite and a liar tonight. I would say, look at yourself on this one. Yet many people are not going to care or supporters are going to say, what's the idea that matters more than the reality. It's kind of, you know, do what I say, not what I do, yet again from Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: Pastor Burns, I have to give you a chance to respond to that. You're a supporter of Donald Trump. Fair criticism?
PASTOR MARK BURNS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, you know, I love Ben and I love his commentary. But the fact is, listen, Donald Trump is taking a strong stance on the fact is, he is making sure that America is safe and that's his strong stance and I'm going to stand behind him. I mean, the whole purpose of this is, Donald Trump is running on the campaign that we have a weak government with a weak military. The borders are weak. And he is simply, saying listen, I'll take on one of the largest American companies head on because I'm not one of the politicians that just says one thing and do another, but I'm going to make sure America is safe again. And I'm going to make sure that Apple does what it is supposed to do so that we can eliminate terrorism here in America.
SCIUTTO: Ben, before you respond --
FERGUSON: Pastor, with all due respect --
SCIUTTO: I do want to talk about the other battle of course, that being with Pope Francis. And we noticed today, Pastor Burns if I can ask you, that the Pope said he was not singling out Donald Trump specifically. He was not attacking him personally here. I wonder if you accept that word from the Pope, particularly after the criticism where he said because of Trump's positions on immigration, for instance the wall, that he's not a Christian.
BURNS: Sure. Well, you know, obviously, we don't want to get into a feud with the Pope. We admire and we honor and respect the man and the position that he holds within the Catholic faith. And so, you know, we'll take whatever the Pope gives, but you know, you can't be fooled and we can't be ignorant of the fact that the Pope carries weight. And I think he also calculates every word that he says because of the way that he knows that he carries to over 1.2, 1.5 billion followers in the world.
And so, you know, we'll take whatever we can get. Again, Mr. Trump said yesterday and a couple of days ago that he respects the man. And, you know, we don't want to get into battle with the Pope, but the fact remains, you know, the Vatican, whether it has a physical wall or he has a barrier that says the Pope is going to be safe wherever he is, and so, if he has a barrier or a protection, I think we as the United States should have one the same. And so, that's really what it's all about.
SCIUTTO: Ben, let me ask you because, listen, the other Republican candidates, they certainly haven't shied away from criticizing each other or the Republican frontrunner Donald Trump, but on this issue with Donald Trump picking -- well, not picking this fight but perhaps keeping up something of a feud with the Pope, none of them have criticized his comments. Have a listen to what the other candidates said following Donald Trump's comments yesterday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Vatican City controls who comes in, when they come in, and how they come in as a nation-state or a city-state. And as a result, the United States has the right to do that as well.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that's a relationship they have with their lord and savior and themselves. So, I just don't think it is appropriate to question Donald Trump's faith.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Listen, that's between Donald and the Pope. I'm not going to get in the middle of that. I'll leave it to the two of them to work it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Ben, are you surprised on this issue that Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio did not go after Donald Trump on his critical comments about the Pope?
FERGUSON: No. I think it was a very smart move for them. Why would you want to get in the mud with the Pope and Donald Trump over an issue of war they're talking about one another or not or was it direct or not direct? And also, go back to the issue of the wall. And I think the other thing that was smart about this was there was some people that say, if Donald Trump is going to get into the fight with the Pope -- and even though he is saying now he's not wanting to get into a fight with the Pope, he absolutely got in a fight with the Pope. The question is, some people are saying, is this a temperament of someone that if they can't even get along with Pope, is there anyone that he can be able to get along with?
Because he does say, he is the master of the deal. He's the art of the deal. This goes back again though to the core issue that we're talking about at the beginning of the show. Donald Trump doesn't always do what he says that he's going to do. He says, I'm not in a battle with the Pope. He was in a battle with the Pope. He said, I was -- remember today he said, you know, I was the one that was against the war in Iraq. We found out today in an audio recording he was in favor of the war in Iraq and said we should have invaded apparently during the gulf war. And he says boycott Apple. And then yet his own employees are selling make America great again hats on Apple products while they swap people's credit card numbers.
[19:10:42] SCIUTTO: Pastor Burns, I want to give you a chance to respond -- I want to give you a chance to respond specifically on the Iraq war charge.
BURNS: The fact remains millions and millions of Americans are supporting Donald Trump. Number one, it's because he's not the establishment.
FERGUSON: I'm not disputing that.
BURNS: They want somebody who is going to simply say and do exactly what they're going to say and they're going to do. They're going to make sure that our voters --
FERGUSON: He does the opposite -- look at the war in Iraq --
BURNS: He's going to make sure that jobs are state here in America.
He's doing that right now by attacking Apple right now saying, Apple, listen, listen, you need to --
FERGUSON: Pastor, I have to ask you a question seriously. Pastor?
BURNS: -- to make sure we unlock the key so that we can find the terrorist.
FERGUSON: Pastor? Pastor?
SCIUTTO: Ben, Ben Ferguson, I'm sorry. Ben and Pastor Burns, we're going to have to leave it there. Right there, you see the passion. And we're going to see voters getting right in the middle of this tomorrow in South Carolina. Thanks to have you both on tonight.
OUTFRONT next, Bernie Sanders on why Hillary Clinton is cozying up to President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She loves the president. He loves her and all that stuff. And we know what that's about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Plus. Joe Biden hints on what kind of Supreme Court nominee the President will pick.
And an invitation to move to this island if Donald Trump wins the election and you want to, quote, "get the hell out of the U.S."
[19:15:59] SCIUTTO: Tonight, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in a tight race for Nevada. We are just hours away from voters starting to caucus in a state that was once considered a safe bet for Clinton. On the line, whether this will be a quick race to the democratic nomination or a long drawn out primary fight. Both candidates are canvassing the state today hoping to secure the votes needed to propel them to a key victory.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT tonight with "America's Choice."
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's shaping up as the Vegas prize fight of politics. On the eve of the Nevada caucuses, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in a deadlocked democratic race. They're drawing cheers and jeers, like when Clinton suggested Sanders is a democrat come lately.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maybe it's that Senator Sanders wasn't really a Democrat until he decided to run for president. He doesn't even know what the, you know, last two democratic presidents did.
And I'm, you know, well, it's true. It's true. You know it's true.
ZELENY: Flying across Nevada today, Sanders says, he's counting on one win at a time.
SANDERS: I hope we have a very large, very, very large voter turnout tomorrow.
ZELENY: The candidates are trying to break through the distractions of Las Vegas.
CLINTON: Now, you get there. You have to get there at 11:00 a.m. You can't sleep in. Sleep in, you know, the next day.
ZELENY: Working to get out the vote for Saturday's caucuses, particularly targeting Latino voters.
(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
ZELENY: In South Carolina today, Clinton picked up the endorsement of Congressman James Clyburn. An influential seal of approval for next week's primary there.
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: The future of the Democratic Party and the United States of America will be best served with the experiences and know-how of Hillary Clinton as our 45th president.
ZELENY: Eight years ago, Clyburn declined to endorse, a decision that enraged Bill Clinton. Clyburn recounted the anger in his 2014 memoir. He said the former president called him in the middle of the night saying, "If you bastards want a fight, you'll damn well will get one." The endorsement could complicate Sanders' attempt to win over black voters. In a new interview with BET, he suggested Hillary Clinton was embracing Obama for one reason.
SANDERS: Everything the President does is wonderful. She loves the President, he loves her and all that stuff. And we know what that's all about. That's going to win support from the African-American community where the President is enormously popular. But you know what? I have enormous respect for the President. He's a friend. We have worked together. I think he has done a great job in many respects. But you know what? Like any other human being he is wrong on certain issues.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ZELENY: Now the Clinton campaign says it is absurd to suggest that she is embracing President Obama simply to win over black voters. They says she is doing it because she is a true Democrat. And she is embracing a democratic president as any candidate would. Of course, Jim, that is an implicit slight against Bernie Sanders suggesting that he is not a true Democrat. He's been an Independent and has even calls himself a democratic socialist. So, a rally just wrapped up here in Sparks, Nevada, just a few moments ago. He has one more rally tonight before those caucuses begin tomorrow and then Jim, it is on to South Carolina as this democratic race continues -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny with the Sanders' campaign.
And OUTFRONT, CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill now. He interviewed Sanders for the BET Special. We also have former Governor of Michigan Jennifer Granholm. She is also the senior advisor for "Correct the Record," a pro-Hillary Clinton Super PAC. And Jonathan Tasini, he is a Bernie Sanders supporter.
Marc, if I could begin with you. So, you interviewed Sanders. What were your thoughts when you heard him accused Clinton of cozying up to President Obama purely to pander to African-Americans?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'd say wow. The gloves are officially if they weren't already. The first time I spoke and interviewed with Bernie Sanders a few years ago and he sort of said, if I run for president, if I make this run, I will have no critique of Hillary Clinton that could hurt her or hurt anyone else in the general election. So, I was a bit surprised that at this point he would make a critique that even if it's accurate, somewhat creates a rift in the party itself. I mean, that's a pretty powerful claim.
[19:20:14] SCIUTTO: Governor Granholm, this is coming from both sides, what's your response when you hear Sanders accuse Clinton of backing Obama just to get black votes?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, SENIOR ADVISOR, CORRECT THE RECORD, A PRO-CLINTON SUPER PAC: I would say on behalf of her and all Democrats that is so utterly insulting. You know, when President Obama created 15-and-a- half million jobs. Seventeen million more people have access to health care. He saved the auto industry. He's got this incredible climate plan. I mean, to suggest that it is for political reasons only -- she served with him. We want to extend what the Obama presidency is about as Democrats and to suggest that it's only because of some political strategy is ridiculous.
SCIUTTO: Jonathan, now you look at the numbers. Sanders is struggling with the black vote. Look at South Carolina. Hillary Clinton leading among black voters 65 to 28. More than two-to-one margin there. Today, Congressman James Clyburn said he certainly hopes his endorsement helps Clinton in Nevada. How can Sanders win the nomination without making substantial gains from where he is now among black voters?
JONATHAN TASINI, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: Well, Jim, I think he's already made substantial gains. And I think the story in Nevada and South Carolina is the same thing that -- it's like deja vu all over again to quote, (INAUDIBLE) Spring training. Everything that has happened along the way, Bernie was 40 points behind an Iowa and essentially won the popular vote though, even though he tied in delegates. He crushed the Clinton campaign in New Hampshire. He has now close the gap and I think we're going to win tomorrow in a state that was considered a Hillary Clinton state.
I think that's going to carry over into South Carolina. And then it's been true about all people. Young people, women, Latinos, and African-Americans, as people hear more about Bernie Sanders and what he's for and what he wants to do, they flock to him. So, I'll give you a very two quick examples. Bernie Sanders wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Something that Hillary Clinton opposes. That is something that is very popular among African-Americans. Bernie Sanders wants to expand Social Security by lifting the cap on the richest people. Hillary Clinton opposes that. That would be very popular, particularly among seniors. African-Americans and all seniors. So, I think that --
SCIUTTO: Let's open it up a bit. Because I want to give the Governor Granholm a chance to respond. Because Jonathan does have a point there when you look at the numbers. Just a couple of months ago, Clinton she was doing well in Nevada, very well. Though we should mention polls in Nevada, you know, listen, they aren't always 100 percent reliable. Her campaign manager was the Nevada state director for Clinton's campaign in 2008. That's when she beat Obama in Nevada. What happened? How do you answer Jonathan's point and just even looking at the numbers how she's lost those significant leads?
GRANHOLM: Well, and clearly, the Sanders campaign has significant investments in the past 30 days in Nevada. But as the Clinton director of Nevada said, "Thirty days of investments is hard to compare with 30 years of working on behalf of people." Everybody know this, we're going to be tight, tomorrow is going to be a very tight race. But as you look ahead, obviously she's doing well in South Carolina. All of those march states, 56 percent of the delegates will be awarded then. But let me just see this. One other thing that is really important in these two states coming up in particular.
This week, Hillary Clinton came up with a plan to target investment in communities that have been challenged, especially in the area of job creation. Why are people so upset? Because of the loss of middle class jobs. Well, we of course want to make sure we reign in Wall Street. We also want to create jobs on Main Street, in America. And that's what she is doing. And the focus of those people who are concerned about that in those states, especially communities of color, which have a really high unemployment rate, that's important.
SCIUTTO: Well, Governor Granholm, I want to give Jonathan a chance --
SCIUTTO: -- because when you look at CNN's latest poll out of Nevada --
TASINI: Yes. SCIUTTO: This Jonathan I think will be key to what you want to say. The only issue Sanders comes out close to beating Clinton on is the economy.
TASINI: Well, it's nice that Hillary Clinton has woken up and thought about middle class jobs. She shouldn't have supported all of those terrible trade agreements, including NAFTA which Bill Clinton passed which destroyed millions of middle class just particularly jobs that African-Americans has. Now Hillary Clinton wakes up and says, oh, let's have middle class jobs because it is pandering to people. She was never --
GRANHOLM: Oh, my goodness!
TASINI: If you really want to have a middle class base, you would have oppose all those bad trade agreements that she supported. And I just want to say, one quick thing that Marc brought up in his interview --
SCIUTTO: Final though there Jonathan because I want to go to Marc.
TASINI: Yes. Which was Marc said, Bernie said, look, sometimes I don't agree with President Obama. And particularly Bernie has opposed -- President Obama support for the Transpacific Partnership which Hillary Clinton called the gold standard of trade agreements until she flip-flopped when it became --
GRANHOLM: OK. She is opposed to that. She voted against --
TASINI: No! No!
SCIUTTO: OK. Jonathan and Governor Granholm --
TASINI: She only changed her position when the polls changed.
[19:25:20] SCIUTTO: Jonathan and Governor Granholm, we have to leave that dispute there because I do want to go back to Marc. This is a key endorsement today from Congressman Clyburn, but when you look at the history Marc, you know this better than anyone. They've had a rocky relationship. Clyburn did not endorse anyone in 2008. You remember Bill Clinton have that angry phone call? He accused him of tipping the skills towards Obama? Today he said his head and his heart are now with Clinton. What's changed?
HILL: Well, I think he made a principled choice in '08. And I think he's making a principled choice in '16. I have no reason to believe that Mr. Clyburn was operating out of anything other than principle in '08. I think he didn't want to be on the wrong side of history by going against Obama. I think in 2016, he doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the Clintons. Not just for political reasons but because I think quite honestly he feels like she's the best option. Whether other people agree or disagree is a different issue but I think he's making a pragmatic choice. I think in '08, he was simply attempting not to violate a friendship he had with the Clintons, but also not being on the wrong side of history by not -- by endorsing the opponent of President Obama. But I think it's going to play out very strongly for Secretary Clinton who has in a stronghold in the black community. Clyburn endorsement does more for them.
SCIUTTO: Jonathan, Governor Granholm and Marc, I want to thank you. And I want to remind our viewers that Marc's special with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will air this Sunday morning at 10:00 on B.E.T. and Centric.
And coming up next on OUTFRONT, a cornerstone of Donald Trump's campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq. Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: But was he actually for the war before he was against it?
And Justice Scalia's funeral is tomorrow. President Obama says, he is not attending. Is he missing an opportunity to bring the parties together?
[19:30:52] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, it is Donald Trump versus Donald Trump. The Republican presidential candidate apparently for the Iraq war before he was against the war. Will Trump's own words on what was perhaps the most crucial U.S. foreign policy decision in the last decade damage his candidacy?
Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, everybody.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a common refrain for Donald Trump.
TRUMP: Going into Iraq may have been the worst decision anybody has made -- any president has made in the history of this country. That's how bad it is, OK?
FOREMAN: Yet it seems the GOP frontrunner wasn't always opposed to the war in Iraq. Trump is now left to explain his 2002 comments to Howard Stern obtained by the website "BuzzFeed".
HOWARD STERN: Are you for invading Iraq?
TRUMP: Yes, I guess so. You know, I wish it was -- I wish the first time it was done correctly.
FOREMAN: Trump was asked about his comments during Thursday night CNN's town hall.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you remember saying that?
TRUMP: No, but I mean, I could have said that. Nobody asked me. I wasn't a politician.
FOREMAN: And again this morning.
HOST: You said you were for the invasion.
TRUMP: You can see I was not exactly strongly in favor.
FOREMAN: Trump is explaining his evolution to South Carolina voters today.
TRUMP: The first guy to ask me about Iraq was Howard Stern. I said, well, I don't -- yes, I guess so. So, then I started looking at it, before the war started, I was against that war. I was against that war.
FOREMAN: To prove his opposition, Trump points to comments he made in 2004 to "Esquire Magazine", where he said, "Look at the war in Iraq and the mess that we're in. I would have never handled it that way."
But that statement came more than a year after the war began. The issue has been a regular topic in the GOP primary fight.
TRUMP: And your brother and your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama because it was such a disaster those last three months that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what? As it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure. He kept us safe.
FOREMAN: Trump using George W. Bush's legacy to constantly hit rival Jeb Bush.
TRUMP: I'll be honest. The last thing we need is another Bush. That I can tell you. That I can tell you.
FOREMAN: And even getting into a war of words with the former president himself.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: There seems to be a lot of name- calling going on, but I want to remind you what our good dad told me one time. Labels are for soup cans. The presidency is a serious job that requires sound judgment.
TRUMP: If Bush is insulted, I don't care if he is insulted. What difference -- it was a horrible mistake. We should have never been there.
FOREMAN: So far, each time Donald Trump has tripped on his own words, his supporters have stuck by him. What remains to be seen is will they keep doing that here in Nevada and in South Carolina, the Super Tuesday states and all those other states with voters waiting down the campaign trail? Jim?
SCIUTTO: Thanks, Tom Foreman.
OUTFRONT now, the national co-chair for Donald Trump's campaign, Sam Clovis, and the editor of "The Weekly Standard", Bill Kristol.
So, Sam, Donald Trump from the beginning has insisted throughout this campaign he was a vocal critic of going to war in Iraq in 2003, but now we have this interview. He's saying the opposite here. Did Trump, Sam Clovis, just get caught in a lie?
SAM CLOVIS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I don't think it was a lie. I think it was perhaps he didn't remember saying it. If you listen to the clip, it was a lack of conviction.
I will tell you, a lot of people have changed their minds about the war in Iraq over time. I certainly did. I spent two years on the ground in the Middle East collecting combat pay. After my son's fifth deployment, this latest episode of unpleasantness, I changed my mind on the war too and I thought it was a huge mistake.
I'm as conservative as anybody going to be talking here tonight. I thought it was a huge mistake after reflection.
SCIUTTO: Bill Kristol, is that -- is that a fair defense?
BILL KRISTOL, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: I respect Sam and I respect him for saying he changed his mind.
But Donald Trump has never said he changed his mind. He's made a huge deal of the fact that he was vocally against the war beforehand.
[19:35:00] You can't produce any evidence of being vocally against the war beforehand. In 2004, he said it was a mess. I said it was a mess.
I was for the war and I remain a defender of the war. I was very critical of Rumsfeld of not sending enough troops and so forth.
So, on several issues on the war in Iraq, on the individual mandate in Obamacare, on Planned Parenthood, Donald Trump says one thing. He gets a little grief. He says the opposite thing. He never acknowledges that he's changed his mind or learned anything.
SCIUTTO: Sam, on this strain here, last night, Donald Trump also praised George H.W. Bush for how he handled the First Gulf War in 1991. Listen to what he said, but then also to what he said to Howard Stern in 2002.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Senior Bush did the right thing. He knocked the heck out of them and then he pulled back. He didn't get into the quagmire. That was OK to do. STERN: Are you for invading Iraq?
TRUMP: Yes, I guess so. I wish the first time it was done direct correctly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Sam, that sounds like another reversal.
CLOVIS: I don't think so. I have a great deal of respect for Bill. In fact, I'm quite honored to be on the program with him tonight because I've been a fan of his father and Bill for quite sometime. I don't agree with Bill all the time, but I think -- you know, I have a respect for his thoughts.
I think this is an issue of a civilian. This is a person who is maybe a celebrity, but he's not a politician. I think a person has the opportunity to over time change their minds. I think, on reflection, you look back and say what should have been done at that time.
I was an advocate -- to be honest with you, Bill, I was an advocate of the first time we should have gone further. I've kind of gone through that catharsis of thought we should have gone further in the first one and I felt like we shouldn't have been there in the second one. I've had just that opposite view.
I think people are entitled to change. If you don't remember what you said, you don't remember what you said. I think the voters of America are going to make a determination on this as we go forward in this process. If this is to stir controversy, if this is to poke, I think that might be successful, but the issue still comes down to what the voters are going to do tomorrow and on Super Tuesday and the rest of the primaries.
SCIUTTO: Bill, as you know, you mentioned this in the new issue of the weekly standard, you take Donald Trump to task for going even further with his criticism of the Iraq war, saying that George W. Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction being in Iraq. I'm going to quote from your editorial here because the language was quite strong.
You said, "Once upon a time we had leaders who would have expressed their outrage another such a slander. They would have explained to the American people who you extraordinarily irresponsible his slander was, and would have done their best to discredit a man who could behave so irresponsibly. We apparently no longer live in such a time."
That is a strong criticism, to me.
KRISTOL: Look, if Donald Trump sounded like Sam and was as thoughtful as Sam and expressed his views looking backward on foreign policy, and looking forward, that would be fine with me.
But this is a guy who says at a national debate that George Bush's team lied, knowingly lied, to get us into Iraq. It's totally irresponsible. It's a slander. If he has any evidence for that, he doesn't, means it's not true.
Bush was wrong about weapons of mass destruction. A lot have us were wrong, a lot of Democrats, a lot of Republicans, a lot of governments around the world.
But Donald Trump is just so cavalier in the way he throws something like that. And this is the president of the United States he's impugning. What are the implications of that if you are the front- running candidate for the Republican nomination for the presidency this time, are you willing to say that about a guy who was president just ten years ago, that a president of the United States knowingly lied to get us into war?
It's something -- Barack Obama has never said. Hillary Clinton doesn't say that. Bernie Sanders doesn't say that.
So, that's my problem with Donald Trump. It's not that he says one thing one day, and you know, changes his mind five years later. That's fine, of course. Or that he can't remember every comment he ever gave in an interview. That's fine, or that he wasn't a politician, which is absolutely true .
It's he's so cavalier in the way that he says things that are irresponsible to say.
SCIUTTO: Bill Kristol, Sam Clovis, thank you for a very calm discussion, a very real division in the party right now. It's great to have you on.
OUTFRONT next, an unusual sight. Justice Scalia's clerks standing vigil by his side. Only the second time in more than six decades, a sitting justice of the Supreme Court has passed away.
Plus, the very political fight playing out in court right now. Should gun-makers be held responsible for mass shootings?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not anymore than you would hold a hammer company responsible for somebody beat someone over the head with a hammer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:43:34] SCIUTTO: Tonight, thousands are paying their final respects to Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. You are looking at live pictures there as colleagues, friends, admirers file past his casket as he lies in repose inside the Supreme Court's great hall.
It's been a day of mourning, of paying great tribute and of tradition. Scalia's casket arrived at 9:30 this morning, carried up the marble steps, where it was met by his Supreme Court colleagues, including his fellow Justice Ginsburg, though distant in ideology, they were very close friends. And earlier this afternoon, President Obama arrived to offer his
condolences since he will not be attending tomorrow's funeral.
Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, he is OUTFRONT tonight.
Jeffrey, you've spent a lot of time in that court. This was a historic day, a somber day to watch. And I know you were able to go yourself.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I was. And the thing I don't think people recognize about the Supreme Court is how small and intimate an institution it is. This is not the federal government. This is nine people at a time with a handful of law clerks, a handful of support staff.
And when one justice leaves and especially when a justice dies, you can just feel the sadness in the building. And this is, of course, a big national controversy, but this is also a very personal event. And you sense that, or I did, in the courthouse today.
SCIUTTO: I believe those are his clerks who stand watch as it were by his casket there.
[19:45:00] Another one of those traditions that we talk about.
Now, so quickly this turns to politics in talking about the potential replacement. We heard from the vice president speaking to MSNBC about the kind of president that -- or rather the kind of candidate the president might choose as he considers it this weekend. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think we ought to be able to find a consensus candidate that meets that criteria because the Senate does have a right to have a say in who -- in what the philosophy of what the nominee is, but they only get to dispose. The president proposes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, the White House says the president is going to be working on the shortlist this weekend. Who do you see on that short list?
TOOBIN: Judges who have been confirmed overwhelmingly, judges like Sri Srinivasan on the D.C. circuit, Judge Jane Kelly on the eight circuit, Paul Watford on the ninth circuit. These are Obama judges who Republicans have supported during their confirmation fights.
Frankly, I don't think any of them are going to be confirmed. The question is, can the president put the Republicans on the defensive with the choice? But the Republicans are never going to confirm anyone the president nominates other the next ten months. But this person may be lined up for a Democratic appointment if a Democrat wins. SCIUTTO: The toughest job offer you'll ever get too, which ever
candidate gets it.
TOOBIN: You bet.
SCIUTTO: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks for following this for us.
TOOBIN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: OUTFRONT next, it's an issue that Clinton and Sanders are deeply divided on. Should gun-makers be held responsible for mass shootings? Our special report on a case that could set a major precedent.
Plus, on a much lighter note, the Canadian island that is ready to take in Americans if Donald Trump wins the election.
[19:50:23] SCIUTTO: Should gun manufacturers be held responsible for the victims of gun violence? The families of the children who lost their lives in the Sandy Hook shooting believe so. And they are taking gun makers to court.
This is, of course, a divisive issue on the campaign trail for both GOP candidates and the Democrats, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murder and that murderer kills somebody with the gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible? Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So far as I know, the gun industry and gun sellers are the only business in America that is totally free of liability for their behavior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This case goes to court on Monday.
Deborah Feyerick is OUTFRONT.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It lasted less than five minutes. When the shooting at Sandy Hook elementary finally stopped, 20 children and six educators lay dead.
One was David Wheeler's 7-year-old son Benny. His other son who was 9 was also there.
DAVID WHEELER, SUING GUN MANUFACTURER: He spent that entire time hiding in a box of t-shirts in a supply closet, and he heard every round. And one of his first questions to me was, "How many people were there, dad? How many were there?" And I said it was one guy.
FEYERICK: One hundred and fifty-four rounds fired from an AR-15 high- powered semiautomatic assault rifle. A weapon originally created and designed by the U.S. military to be fully automatic and used in combat.
JACKIE BARDEN, SUING GUN MANUFACTURER: Each of the kids had 3 to 8 bullets in them. And you just think, there's something wrong.
FEYERICK: Jackie Barden's 6-year-old son Daniel was also killed. Both parents are part of a potentially precedent-setting lawsuit alleging Remington, its distributors and sellers, have a legal obligation to safely market such a dangerous product.
Instead, the lawsuit says gun-makers do the opposite using adrenaline- fueled ads and targeted product placement in video games like "Call of Duty", which the Sandy Hook gunman played repeatedly before the rampage.
WHEELER: I would like to see them stop looking at violence-prone young men as their ideal customer.
BARDEN: It's their target.
FEYERICK: The lawsuit focuses on a 2005 law passed by Congress that protects gun manufacturers from liability if essentially a firearm is misused in a crime to kill people.
Remington declined CNN's request for comment, citing pending litigation.
However, in papers to dismiss the suit, their lawyers argue the 2005 law, quote, "provides complete immunity to the Remington defendant."
Since 2012, the AR-15 has been used in seven of America's deadly shootings which together claimed 79 lives. They include the Aurora movie theater and most recently, San Bernardino's ISIS-inspired rampage.
(on camera): Do you think if the gunmen had used a different kind of firearm that maybe, just maybe your children could have survived?
BARDEN: But he chose that because he wanted to.
WHEELER: Right. He had other firearms on his person and in his car and he didn't use them. He didn't take them because he knew what he was doing. And he knew what he wanted to do.
FEYERICK: Jim, Remington is trying to have this case dismissed. If they fail, that gun manufacturer could face trial in connection with the deaths of 26 people murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Such a powerful story. Coming up next, the Canadian island for Americans who are opposed to
[19:58:07] SCIUTTO: For Americans threatening to the leave the U.S. under a Donald Trump presidency, there is an island for you.
Here's Jeanne Moos with tonight's "I.D.E.A."
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Donald Trump deals with protesters.
TRUMP: Get them out.
MOOS: He doesn't mean out of the country. But for those who want to voluntarily leave --
ROB CALABRESE, CAPE BRETON RADIO DEEJAY: Hi, Americans. Donald Trump may become the president of your country. If that happens and you decide to get the hell out of here, might I suggest moving to Cape Breton Island.
MOOS: First of all, where is Cape Breton?
It's in Nova Scotia, along Canada's Eastern Coast. Boy, is it beautiful?
CALABRESE: And nobody has a handgun.
MOOS: Cape Breton radio deejay, Rob Calabrese is no Donald Trump fan. His "If Trump Wins" web site started as a joke. Come on up to Cape Breton.
CALABRESE: Where women can get abortions. Muslim people can roam freely. And the only walls are holding up the roofs of our extremely affordable houses.
MOOS: There are answers to questions like, how do I immigrate to Canada? They will often --
CALABRESE: They want to know if they can bring their cats to Canada.
MOOS: The web site has been flooded with hundreds and hundreds of inquiries.
Would you consider moving to Canada if Donald Trump were elected president?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm thinking Berlin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would do it in a heartbeat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I'm an American. I'm going to stay here no
matter who is president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm moving to Europe if he's elected president.
MOOS: But in Cape Breton, they need people.
CALABRESE: Absolutely. We have an unsustainable population decline.
MOOS: Housing is a bargain. We saw a three-bedroom waterside houses selling for $200,000, even $25,000.
Sure, Rob has gotten some angry e-mails from Trump supporters.
CALABRESE: Why would anyone want to move to Canada? Especially some isolated known for nothing place like Cape Breton.
MOOS: Well, it's known for something now. Cape Breton's motto, "Your heart will never leave."
TRUMP: Get him the hell out of here, will you, please?
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
MOOS: -- New York.
SCIUTTO: Thanks for joining us tonight. I'm Jim Sciutto.
"AC360" starts right now.