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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Barbara Bush Campaigns with Jeb; Lawsuit Filed Concerning Cruz Eligibility; Harper Lee Remembered. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 19, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:34:16] JIM SCIUTTO: Jeb and Barbara Bush campaigning together again in South Carolina. This in Greenville, South Carolina, it is their second stop of the day. Let's have a listen in.

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JEB BUSH (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When Russia invades a host country, rather than talking about Russia being a regional power and allowing him to do it, we should have more severe sanctions. We should push back. We should have a brigade in the Baltic's, a brigade in Eastern Europe.

We should make sure NATO is a viable treaty organization to know that we can resist this kind of aggression that exists with Russia.

Similarly, with China, we have to do the exact same thing. This has not being a war-mongering nation the way I talk. The president talks about us being we can't be the world's policemen, that if you don't embrace his sophisticated nuance view, that somehow you're part of a cabal and cahoots with the death to America crowd.

[12:35:05] My friends, it's the exact opposite. Our weakness allows others to take advantage of us, to create insecurity. We have to get back to the notion, and I hope it is a bipartisan notion of peace through strength.

That's what Ronald Reagan did. That's what my father did. That's what my brother did. And I assure you, I will do it as well as president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: You've been listening to Jeb Bush there campaigning in Greenville, South Carolina. A strong message about U.S. Foreign Policy. Standing up, he says, to China to Russia, reducing these cuts in military spending.

CNN's Athena Jones joins me now from the site of this morning event.

So, another pairing of Jeb and his mother, Barbara Bush, I wonder in terms of crowd excitement. Are they coming there more to see Jeb or to see Barbara?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question Jim. I can tell you the event that wrapped up not long ago here, Spartanburg, you know, it's Greenville and Spartanburg. Greenville and Spartanburg aren't far apart.

There was a lot of excitement in the crowd. Huge reception to Barbara Bush, a lot of laughter as spoke. She spoke for a few minutes where she talked about how Jeb is one of her four favorite sons.

She talked about him being honest and kind. And the crowd really ate it up. I got a chance to speak with people before the event began. Several said they were already decided on Bush. They were long-time fans of the Bush family. Others say that they were undecided, but leaning towards Bush.

But during the speeches has even -- we saw someone pass a book about Barbara Bush over to her so that she could sign it. So, it was a very excited crowd here to receive both of them.

And it's interesting because you can see Jeb Bush really feed on that excitement. You hear him there in Greenville making much the same argument he made here, it's a commander in chief argument. The argument, that he has the steady hand and the temperament and the executive experience to be a leader and to be the commander in chief.

You hear that from, for instance, the retired admirable -- Admiral, who introduced him and Senator Lindsey Graham. Saying it's the voters obligation to pick someone to be commander in chief that is worthy of the post, worthy of the potential loss of lives in the military for instance.

So that has been central to his argument here and it looks as though, at least, a lot of folks are coming out because they like the Bush family and are willing to give Jeb a listen, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Athena Jones, thanks very much with the Jeb Bush campaign. Its crunch time for the GOP field which is just hours for the first in the South primary. All six are canvassing the state today. This comes after of the trio of White House couples, delivered their closing arguments during our CNN Town Hall last night.

Last night, that was John Kasich, Jeb Bush, and Donald Trump speaking about the most important topics on the minds of voters today, among them, the war in Iraq, the second amendment, and Supreme Court appointments.

Joining us now is now to discuss is Jeff DeWitt. He's the Arizona state treasurer. He's a Trump supporter, also with us in South Carolina's State Representative and Kasich supporter, Gary Clary.

Jeff, if I could begin with you. I want to know what your reaction was to Trump's response, when he was asked about his statements regarding George W. Bush and the war in Iraq. Very strong assignments as you know, saying that George W. Bush lied about WMD there, what's your response to that argument?

JEFF DEWITT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: It's clear now that was a mistake, are a lot of people that formally supported are now against it. And, you know, there's an argument we made that we went in for the wrong reasons. That, you know, we shouldn't have been in the first place. I mean, when we look at all the problems going through Europe and the mass immigration and all that, that wouldn't be there if we hadn't had gone in and screwed up Iraq.

So yeah, I think it's pretty clear that we shouldn't have gone in now. And we have to make better decisions for the country.

SCIUTTO: Jeff, let me ask you this, did you believe that Donald Trump has flip-flopped on this issue? Because he said he was against the war we've now and our viewers have heard, many viewers have heard this audio of him in a 2002 interview with Howard Stern saying that he supported the war at the time. How do you explain that discrepancy?

DEWITT: Well, that was September of 2002. And keep in mind, that was the first time he'd ever been asked, and he was kind of a, I don't know, I guess so. He hadn't really examined the issue.

When we went into Iraq in March of '03, he was on record there, in March of '03 as adamantly opposed to it. And a lot happened in the seven months that we came out. There's was all, you know, the hearings about whether we should go or shouldn't go.

So, he had then the access to the information. That was very, very early on. It was exactly a year after September 11th, and obviously as we know, there was still a lot of passion in this country that we wanted to do something to make sure that would never happen again.

And so, I think everyone, a year after September 11th was saying, well yeah, if that's the way to stop it, then let's go do something. But in the seven months from that comment, until we went to Iraq, when, at that the exact time we went to Iraq, he was saying no, no, no, this is not a good idea. A lot of information came out. That goes in the way, way back machine before there was a lot of information out there.

[12:40:06] SCIUTTO: OK. Gary, let me talk to you about John Kasich. It is a fair amount of pressure on the candidate you support to perform in South Carolina. To prove that will he has the staying power to at least compete for this position as, might not like the term, establishment, but alternative to Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.

What is the bar for success in South Carolina for John Kasich?

GARY CLARY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA STATE HOUSE: Well, you know, Jim, I think Governor Kasich has proved his viability in New Hampshire and he continues to rise in the polls here. And I don't think that there are any expectations for him. I think that he is a proven candidate. He's a proven leader. He has experience in Congresses. He's had established a great record as the governor of Ohio. And, you know, quite frankly, I think that the pressure is on others, rather than Governor Kasich, because he's so ...

SCIUTTO: Well, let's be fair, Gary, you have to show, I mean, you can have a record, but you have to show that voters buy that that record makes him a viable candidate.

CLARY: Well, I think that the voters are going to show that.

Yesterday, we had an event here in Clemson area that I represent, and there was -- people were spilling out of the auditorium, in that great moment with the young man that just kind of bared his soul yesterday showed the great compassion that Governor Kasich has. And I think that that is really beginning to resonate with the people in South Carolina and throughout this country.

SCIUTTO: Gary Clary, Jeff DeWitt, thanks for talking us through this race. We're just about 24 hours away to South Carolina.

Coming up at an Illinois attorney challenging Senator Ted Cruz in court saying that Cruz is not constitutionally eligible to be president because he's not a natural-born citizen. Does he have a legal case? That's right after this.

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[12:46:02] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Senator Ted Cruz is trying to get some last minute votes in South Carolina, but he's ado facing the birther issue that has hung over his campaign now for some time, a lawsuit now being heard in a Chicago court.

The case, brought forward by a voter who is challenging Cruz's placement on the Illinois primary ballot. And he argues that Cruz is not a natural born citizen.

Joining us now is CNN's Correspondent Ryan Young, he's been following today's court proceedings. Also with us is CNN Legal Analyst, Joey Jackson and Paul Callan.

Right, Ryan from the ground there, what's the latest on this case from where you are?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And Jim, what a story you have. A pharmacist who works the overnights just outside of Chicago who decided to bring this suit and he said that he doesn't believe Ted Cruz should be on the ballot here.

In fact, he's pointing to the fact that he's not a natural born citizen. He was standing in court today. Of course, it was his decision to make here today.

But what he wanted to point out is he thinks that Ted Cruz and the campaign are putting on their track shoes to try to avoid this issue. In fact he believes that Ted Cruz needs to do some simple things to get this issue taken care of.

But what he doesn't to want happen is Ted Cruz to win the nomination and something to happen and someone else gets chosen to be the republican nominee, in fact, he believes and he said in a statement, He believes Ted Cruz that he should sue him. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE JOYCE, FILED LAWSUIT: I will waive all common law defenses, except one, truth.

A common law truth is a defense to a defamation suit. I will use only the defense of truth. I will waive all other defenses. Ted Cruz, if you are serious about this, sue me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Now, Lawrence Joyce is a Ben Carson supporter. And he was talking about the fact of whether or not this could spread across the country right after he was talking to us.

He said someone already from Alabama and New York has contacted him to have discussions about what may happen next. He even admitted to the fact that he doesn't have the money to go forward with this kind of lawsuit. So he's hoping that if this starts catching steam, that someone will come forward and help him push this case forward.

On March 1st is the next day there'll be a court date. He couldn't do it sooner because he had to work the overnight shift. The man is very passionate about the idea that he believes that Ted Cruz is not a natural-born citizen. Another twist and turn in this campaign.

SCIUTTO: And Ryan, to be clear, Mr. Joyce does not say that Donald Trump is backing him on this case.

YOUNG: Oh no. He said he's definitely backing Ben Carson. He sad Ted Cruz was his second choice in this election, but he does not like the idea that he has not gone forward to become a natural born citizen.

In fact, he talked about the articles of the constitution; in fact he was reading through some of the ideas on this country and believed that Ted Cruz has not done some of the things he needs to do necessarily to be on the ballot. Now, there's a kind of questions about whether or not he should be able to bring this suit that will be -- we'll find that out of course, March 1st.

SCIUTTO: All right Ryan Young and the courthouse. So, Paul and Joey, of course Mr. Joyce is not the only one who brought up the idea of a lawsuit against Ted Cruz. There's this other candidate, Donald Trump, who's talking about this. I mean, just from a just from a legal perspective. And perhaps Paul I can start with you, is there a case here?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think there is. I mean, the court has never precisely decided the issue of whether someone in Cruz's position can run for president. That is someone who was born abroad, but the child of an American citizen.

However, through the years, it's been litigated in the lower courts and a number of other situations that is the definition of natural born citizen.

And it goes back to the time the constitution was adopted. The founding fathers used that phrase because the British crown had used the phrase. And in British law, British common law, which much of U.S. Law derives from, the son or daughter of a citizen of the crown who happened to be born in one of the far flung parts of the empire, was a citizen of the British Isles who were of England.

So that precedent started right at the time of the constitution. And has pretty much been followed up until the present time. So, I think Cruz wins. Trump loses, at least on that question.

[12:50:12] SCIUTTO: OK. And so Joey, on this issue of this particular case, it's in Illinois. Let's say, if he wins there, it only affects the Illinois ballot. This is not the equivalent of what Donald Trump is threatening which is exposing the national case.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, that's absolutely right. And so it's limited to whether or not he would be on the ballot there. But you know, make no mistake about it. It's an issue that has heat and as much as there are various other jurisdictions, you know, where lawsuits are being filed of course as a Texas Lawsuit.

And in terms of what have Cruz's representatives are going to do, Jim, remember, there's three issues real here, they have to win the public relations battle, and in doing that, they'll say, this is all politics. Look at the fact is that Ted Cruz is rising, and as a result of that, we're talking about a non-issue. Why are we talking about it? Because he's going to be successful.

Number two, I think in Illinois's at least, and in other jurisdictions, depending on who files, Jim, they've going to look to get it dismissed on procedural grounds. That is, is the person suing, do you even have any standing? Are you so aggrieved and so affected by this that the court will even recognize you as a party to bring forward the action?

And finally, on the legal question, natural born citizen, what does it mean? Does it mean that you had to be born in the jurisdiction of the United States or does it mean you.net have to file for naturalization? And on that issue, it seems pretty clear whether it's gone to the Supreme Court or not, he appears to be a citizen.

CALLAN: And Jim, I wanted to add one thing quickly on it also, that you don't hear talk about. And that is what I would call the collateral affect of the suit. You know, natural born citizen has been defined a certain way up until the president. And that is if you're the son or daughter of an American citizen, even if you're born abroad, you're an American citizen.

Well, Natural born citizens using that definition have served on juries, and they have done a number of other things in different contexts. Well, what happens now? If the court's come and say well they're not really natural born citizens, is that going to upset jury verdict. And is it going to upset laws that were passed by people who were elected who were not natural born citizens.

There are lots of collateral affects of such a ruling. And I think in the end the court won't go down that road.

SCIUTTO: Good political implications too. No question this year, Joey Jackson, Paul Callan always good to have your legal wisdom on our show. CALLAN: All right Jim. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: While her debut novel became an American classic, Harper Lee, the author of, "To Kill A Mocking Bird has died. We'll going to look back at her incredible literary life after this break.

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[12:56:53] SCIUTTO: Official confirmation is coming into CNN from the small Southern Alabama town of Monroeville, their most famous resident, Pulitzer prize winning author, Harper Lee died at age 89. If you don't know her name or face you'd certainly you know the book she published 56 years ago, "To Kill A Mockingbird."

Here is CNN's Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATTICUS FINCH: You never really understand a person until you see a thing from his point of view.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN, ANCHOR: Life lesson delivered by the fictional Alabama lawyer Atticus Finch in the 1962 film, "To Kill A Mockingbird."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She kissed a black man.

COOPER: The movie lives the racial injustice of the 1930s through the eyes of Finch's daughter, Scout. His characters were first brought to life by famed author, Harper Lee in a novel that became a classic for all generations.

Nelle Harper Lee was born April 28, 1926 in the small down of Monroeville, Alabama. Lee's father who was a lawyer and served as inspiration for her book's civil rights hero.

Following in her father's footsteps, she studied Law at the University of Alabama and became editor of the school's humorous and literary magazine. But by age 23, she's abandoned law and moved to New York to become a writer. There, Lee reunited with her childhood friend and fellow writer, Truman Capote assisting him in the research that led to his breakthrough novel, "In Cold Blood."

Their unique friendship played out in the big screen in the award winning movie "Capote".

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're the only one I know with the qualifications that go to research assistance and a personal body guard.

COOPER: Lee's first novel "To Kill A Mockingbird" received a Pulitzer prize. In 2007, President George W. Bush presented Lee with a medal of freedom.

FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: All of us are filled with admiration, for a Great American and lovely lady named Harper Lee. COOPER: But for most of her life, she stayed out of the spotlight. And

one of the few interviews Lee ever granted, she offered a glimpse into her thoughts saying, "I want to do the best I can with the talent God gave me. All I want to be is the Jane Austin of South Alabama.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the most widely anticipated books ...

COOPER: In 2015, the literary world was stunned by the announcement that a second Harper Lee manuscript titled "Go Set A Watchman" would be published, Completed in 1957, "Watchman" was actually written before "To Kill A Mockingbird" and featured Scout and Atticus some 20 years later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the why the publishing event of the decade ...

COOPER: That excitement lit up the small town where Harper Lee grew up and lived in her twilight years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To have another book, we are charmed.

COOPER: But many were disappointed in the portrayal of the characters they knew and loved.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple of the tweets really echoing the devastation of fans out there.

"The idea of Atticus Finch being racist is like Spielberg doing a sequel in which E.T. punches Elliott in the face and steals his lunch money".

COOPER: "Watchman" was still a best-seller, the fastest selling book in Harper Collins publishing history. Through all the fun fare Harper Lee remained quiet, rarely seen or heard from, but forever remembered from inspiring the world through her written words.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:00:12] SCIUTTO: Harper Lee dead at 89. Thanks to all of you for watching. It's been a pleasure this week. Wolf starts right now.