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Nevada Caucuses; Democrats Head to South Carolina. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired February 22, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is coming up next. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Pamela Brown starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with us on this Monday.

So will tomorrow help turn Donald Trump into something that doesn't often come out of Nevada? A sure bet. The silver state's Republican caucuses are tomorrow evening and Trump is now basking in the fact that every Republican who has won primaries in both New Hampshire and South Carolina has become the presidential nominee. But in this election year of Trump, runner-up doesn't necessarily mean down and out. Marco Rubio's strong finish in South Carolina may have just cinched him as a traditional candidate the Republican Party has been seeking. Especially now that Jeb Bush has dropped out of the race. Rubio spoke just moments ago, how he feels, saying he feels good not just about tomorrow but moving into March and the dozen primaries that happen on Super Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obviously I have ties to Las Vegas that run deep given my time growing up here. Obviously I haven't lived here in 25 years, the city has changed a lot. So we have a lot of friends here and a lot of family and - but I'm not sure that's going to be enough to simply be a determining factor in the - in the caucus. I think this is going to be like every other candidate that's coming in. We're going to have to compete hard. But I know this, I mean, I feel very confident about our campaign. But we're in a very unusual year. But we're going to continue to move forward and we look forward to continue to add delegates to our calendar. As we get into the winner take all states, I think we're going to be in a very strong position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston joins us now from Elko, Nevada, where a Trump rally is underway right now.

So what's happening there, Maeve?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rubio just wrapped up. There are actually Rubio, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump Jr. are all appearing within a one-block radius here today in Elko, which is one of the largest cities in rural Nevada. But it's really fascinating because it's sort of the wild west out here in Nevada. It's very hard to do polling here because it's difficult to figure out who's actually going to turn out.

But you heard Marco Rubio making a strong case in there that he's the most electable candidate in the race. Ted Cruz is also making that argument as he flies around Nevada today. Back in 2012, when Mitt Romney won here, actually only 7 percent of voters turned out to caucus. And that's why it's so difficult to figure out who's ahead. But I will tell you, that a lot of people here do seem enthusiastic about Trump.

BROWN: Well, you know, you're really getting the pulse of what people there in rural areas of Nevada feel and interesting to hear your perspective. Thank you so much, Maeve Reston, appreciate it.

And from 17 candidates to five, the Republican field is thinning, and many say that will mean a tougher contest for Trump as his opponents gain support. But on the night of his South Carolina victory, Donald Trump had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A number of the pundits said, well, if a couple of the other candidates dropped out, if you add their scores together, it's going to equal Trump. OK. Right. They're geniuses. They're geniuses. They don't understand that as people drop out, I'm going to get a lot of those votes also. You don't just - you don't just add them together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so with me now, the author of "God and Government: Why Christians Must Be Involved in the Political Process," conservative blogger Krystal Heath, who's leaning toward caucusing for Senator Ted Cruz tomorrow. Also here, Jeff DeWit, Arizona state treasurer, who is in Las Vegas to campaign for Trump.

Thank you both for coming on to share your perspectives.

Krystal, I'm going to start with you, because we just heard what Donald Trump said, that as candidates drop out, those voters will turn to him.

KRYSTAL HEATH, LEANING TOWARD SEN. TED CRUZ: Yes.

BROWN: I have a pretty good feeling you don't agree with that, but it does look like he is poised to have the most delegates. So why wouldn't that happen?

HEATH: Well, I think, you know, Donald Trump is very confident. He's brought a lot of energy to this race and a lot of people really like him. But when you look at the people that aren't supporting him or haven't supported him so far, especially with Jeb Bush, they polled the people that supported Jeb Bush and what actually would have happened is 2 percent of his supporters would have gone to Marco Rubio, 2 percent to Ted Cruz, 1 percent, I believe, it was to Kasich and 1 percent to Carson. And then I think, you know, if Carson were to drop out, he tends to have more of the evangelical vote, and that splits. That - we don't really know where that's going to go. Will some of it go to Trump? Sure, because he's very popular right now. But I think to say that all of that would go to Trump is just, you know, a little too grandiose for me to go along with.

BROWN: All right, so, Jeff, I want to bring you in because their - despite the fact that Trump has done so well the last several states, despite that there have been some in the establishment party, Republican Party, who say that Trump is going to jeopardize the Republican's majority in the Senate, that he's never going to be able to make it to the White House and they're very resistant to accepting Trump. Why do you think that is?

JEFF DEWIT, ARIZONA STATE TREASURER: Well, I definitely disagree with that. If you look at the crowds that are turning out, I'm in front of the South Point Resort where we're going to have a huge rally tonight, people are already waiting in line. And this event is - is nine hours away.

[14:05:10] What Donald Trump is doing for the Republican establishment - I'm sorry, for the Republican Party, not the establishment, for the Republican Party is phenomenal. He is bringing people in to vote, in many cases that have never voted before. We - I spoke to an 80-year- old woman that said this is going to be the first time she ever votes. She's coming out to vote for Donald Trump.

So what he is doing in igniting the Republican base, I believe he is the only candidate on the Republican side that will make it to the White House. He absolutely is igniting a fire in the American electorate that we haven't seen honestly since Ronald Reagan. And that's why he's the candidate we all need to get behind. He's the one that's going to - to bring us all together. Obviously the establishment's not happy about that. They've been making a lot of money off the backs of our grandchildren for a long time and he - he's going to upset the balance of power without any question.

But Donald Trump is what this country needs. Donald Trump is going to protect America. And that's why he's leading in the polls. He's winning across America. He's going to win here in Nevada. And it's really why, as you see other candidates drop out, his support keeps getting stronger.

BROWN: All right, so, Krystal, you hear that. I imagine you're not necessarily swayed by what Jeff said, but he does have a point. You say that you're leaning towards Cruz though. You say anyone but Trump.

HEATH: Yes.

BROWN: I will support anyone but Trump. Does that mean you could be swayed by Marco Rubio?

HEATH: Yes, I would support Marco Rubio. You know, I think that Donald Trump does bring a lot of excitement to this race, but I honestly have a lot of concerns about his past record and the way that he carries himself. I'm not sure that for me that it's someone that I want as president. I like Ted Cruz. I like Marco Rubio. And the reason why I really like Ted Cruz is because he's a consistent conservative. You know, he has the record that backs up what he says.

I think that Donald Trump is going to have a hard time converting some conservatives that say, you know, your record just isn't there. It's great, you talk the talk really well, but we haven't seen you walk the walk really at all. And so that's why I would be - you know, tomorrow I'm going to be caucusing for Ted Cruz, but I could be swayed to vote for Rubio as well because I think he has that good, conservative record.

BROWN: And they're sort of battling it out right now to be number two, Jeff. "The Washington Post" reports that New York mayor and former presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani has been speaking to Trump. What do you know about that? Is that a sign that more of the party is perhaps opening up to Trump as a nominee?

DEWIT: You know, I think people are coming around, you know. I disagree with the other guests in saying that Donald Trump hasn't been carrying himself well. If you look at Ted Cruz and how he's handled everything, as I said a few days ago, we need to change the word behind him from trusted to busted because he's been lying to voters in so many things that he said. In fact, the Cruz campaign just sent an e-mail out about 30 minutes ago that said this is down to a three- person race. His e-mail - in fundraising e-mail to his donors just said this is down to a three-person race. That is misinformation he's giving to the American public.

But clearly Kasich and Carson are still in this race. It is not a three-person race. And so I don't know if this is another time when he's try to tell everyone that Carson's out of the race on election day, trying to grab Carson voters. But how he's handled himself has been very poorly and gone against the core principles which he proclaims to be. And with Marco Rubio, he's obviously, you know, with both those guys, honestly, they're just first-term senators. They're inexperienced first-term senators that have done nothing else than be politicians or lawyers and that's what we have in the White House already that's - that's screwing it up.

BROWN: All right, Krystal, I'm going to let you respond to that but - but, Jeff, would you answer the question about Rudy Giuliani and his role in all of this and what you think that signals to you.

HEATH: I'm sorry, I couldn't - who's role in what now?

DEWIT: Well, again, it - I don't -

BROWN: Krystal, one second. Jeff, I just wanted you to answer the question I asked before about Rudy Giuliani and what his involvement now in Trump's campaign could signal.

DEWIT: Well, obviously, as more and more people are coming around and realizing that Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee, as he keeps winning states, I don't think that that's a sign that - a bad thing that the establishment's getting behind him. I think there's just a sense of, you know what, he is going to be the best person to move America forward and to move the Republican Party forward and to bring everyone together. He's a business guy. He has a great business background of bringing people together. Quite frankly, that's what we need to do things differently. And with Rudy Giuliani or anybody else, that's what we're seeing is people seeing now that Donald Trump's the guy that can get it done.

BROWN: OK. And, Krystal, I want you to be able to respond to what Jeff said because he basically said that Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are inexperienced first-term senators that just don't know what they're doing. Your response.

HEATH: Sure. I would disagree with that. I think Ted Cruz especially, you know, he's - he may be a first-term senator, that's true. But the whole point then of Trump supports is, well, Trump is outside of D.C. He doesn't have that, you know, inside D.C. experience. Well then you could say the same thing about Cruz. It's true, he's only been there for two years.

But you know what, he's argued in front of the Supreme Court. He's represented conservative values in Texas and in Washington, D.C. And I think now, especially with the passing of Justice Scalia, we need someone that understands our Constitution, that's supported our Constitution, that doesn't have this record that liberals can point at or that conservatives can point at and say, hey, this doesn't jive with what you're saying now. We need someone who's going to stand by our principles and stand by what the Republican Party represents and the good of conservativism.

[14:10:31] BROWN: All right, Krystal Heath, Jeff DeWit, thanks for that lively discussion. Really appreciate it.

And just a reminder for you, the five remaining Republican candidates will meet head to head in the next GOP debate this Thursday in Houston. Wolf Blitzer moderates the CNN GOP presidential debate beginning at 8:30 Thursday night only on CNN.

And up next on this Monday, the Democrats turning their focus to South Carolina. Can Bernie Sanders slow down Hillary Clinton's momentum as they head into their first big test in the south?

Plus, the Uber driver accused of going on a killing spree in Kalamazoo, Michigan, is making his first court appearance. We're going to have a live report.

And the fight is heating up between Apple and the FBI to unlock an iPhone of one of the san Bernardino killers. Both sides now sounding off publicly over this hot button issue. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:22] BROWN: With Nevada now in their rearview mirror, the two Democrats vying for president are looking ahead to their first big test in the south. Right now, Hillary Clinton has a 25-point lead over Senator Bernie Sanders heading into Saturday's primary in South Carolina. After defeating Sanders in Nevada, Clinton is counting on African-American voters to show up in a big way to help add another victory next to her name and to slow Sanders' momentum even more.

But Sanders is also courting black voters in South Carolina. And he made a surprise visit to a black church in west Columbia Sunday, along with former NAACP leader Ben Jealous who has endorsed him. Sanders and Clinton also appealed directly to black voters by appearing in separate interviews on B.E.T. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel very supported by the large majority of the African-American community. I feel trusted by them. I experience that every day. I realize, though, that there are questions that deserve answers, which is what I'm trying to provide. I am trying to lead a conversation that doesn't just address African-Americans, but also goes right at talking with, you know, white Americans about the perspective they need to have in hearing about the barriers that African-Americans face.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything the president does is wonderful. She loves the president. He loves her. All that stuff. And we know what that's about. That's trying to win support from the African-American community where the president is enormously popular.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So joining me now to discuss, CNN political commentator Van Jones and Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis.

Thank you both for coming on.

Chris, I want to start with you. You were also the former communications director for John Edwards. I want to mention that. Clinton is saying that she feels trusted by black voters. Sanders is hitting back now at Clinton by saying that she is cozying up to President Obama as a way of pandering to black voters. So who are more voters more likely to listen to, Chris, and are they both sort of guilty of pandering here in a sense?

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I don't look at it in terms of pandering if you're embracing the position of the president. I think that's kind of to be expected by most Democratic candidates running to succeed the president.

I think the bigger question, I think this is the real challenge for Senator Sanders is, after Nevada, you have the situation where he didn't get the momentum that he needed. I mean part of his challenge in South Carolina is not that his message can't resonate with African- Americans. It does. He does speak to the economic anxiety and frustration that a lot in the community feel.

But I think the bigger problem is, he's not as well-known as Secretary Clinton is. And when you're talking about a very condensed primary schedule where there's not a lot of time, it becomes a real obstacle for him. So I think that has been, if you will, the hangover that's coming out of this Nevada loss. Had he won there, he would have gotten I think a bigger look. Now he just gives the momentum more to Secretary Clinton.

BROWN: And, Van, on that note, Clinton claimed the support of 76 percent of black voters in Nevada. If Sanders is going to remain strong as this primary shifts to diverse southern states, what does he need to do?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, a couple things. He's got - has three opportunities here. Otherwise, it's going to be - go get - it's going to go down in history as like a major act of malpractice with regard to the black vote. You can't be a Democrat that can't compete for the black vote.

First of all he's got to stop giving that same canned speech. Everybody's heard it. African-Americans consume more news than any other ethnic group. They've heard it. He should be down there telling civil rights war stories. He's got incredible civil rights war stories that would captivate an audience. He can't just keep giving that same speech.

The other thing is that he has kind of given Hillary Clinton a pass on the ways that she has separated herself from the president. Hillary Clinton is not with the president on trade. She is opposing his TPP. The president's for it. She's against the president on foreign policy. She wants a Syria fly over zone. The president does not. She's against the president on health care. Hillary Clinton wants to get rid of the Cadillac tax. The president wants to keep it. He has given her a complete pass on all of that, which makes no sense.

And then the third this is, that he has not defined his relationship with the president. It would be very easy for him to say Hillary Clinton loves the president, she wants to defend his gains. I love the president, I want to extend his gains. Because he - but he never has aggressively defined his relationship. He's now had that relationship defined. You give the same speech everybody's heard. You give the - your opponent a pass on the Obama issue. And you let yourself be defined on Obama. You are not going to get black votes.

BROWN: All right, so Clinton, though, you know, she's really counting on black support to provide her campaign a fire wall. In fact, the Clinton camp has this new ad just rolled out. I want us to take a listen and then I'll talk to you on the other end of it.

[14:20:09] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says their names.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trayvon Martin, shot to death. Dontre Hamilton, unarmed. Sandra Bland did nothing wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And makes their mother's fight for justice her own. She speaks for a city poisoned by indifference.

CLINTON: We need action now. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And stands with the president against those who

would undo his achievements, just like she's always stood with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, as we see, Clinton is getting the support of African- American mothers who lost sons to gun violence. Among them, the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner and Jordan Davis. But one of Eric Garner's daughters is supporting Sanders. Chris, does this represent somewhat of a generational divide? Could this be what propels Bernie Sanders, the fact that he brings in those younger African-American voters in South Carolina?

KOFINIS: It's possible. I mean we've seen this divide at least happen, you know, in the - in the first three contests. You know, the young voters are clearly attracted to Senator Sanders more progressive, bold, you know, message. But, you know, Van, I think, is - really hit it on the head very well. I mean what we have here is a campaign, in particular the Sanders campaign, that is not evolving to the challenge that they're facing. Listen, campaigns, you're going to lose sometimes some contests. The choice you've got to make is what you're going to do following.

And you haven't seen, I think, the evolution since. And they really don't have a lot of time here to play around. They've got to come out in a very aggressive way and make it clear what their position is and speak to the issues that the African-American community and Democratic voters in South Carolina care about. It's not going to just happen organically because young people are going to come out and vote for you. You've got to make those distinctions and he hasn't. And it's kind of a puzzle to me why.

BROWN: And, Van, I want you to comment on this, this notion of a generational divide for Sanders and Clinton.

JONES: Well, first of all, that was a brilliant ad. I mean that ad - I mean I was going to be a - felt like - felt like I was going to - no, that ad is a beautiful ad. It's a powerful ad. It has Morgan Freeman's voice in it. I mean you don't get any better than that if you're trying to appeal to African-Americans. Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, he has Harry Belafonte, another beautiful voice that everyone would recognize instantly. I have not seen that ad. And so I just think you're seeing - Hillary Clinton has evolved her message. She's saying "we" a lot more. She got beat up for saying "I," "I," "I."

KOFINIS: That's right.

JONES: It's Bernie Sanders turn now to evolve. If he can't evolve, he doesn't deserve it. Now, it is true that younger people like Bernie, but in the south, the - it's older African-Americans who vote. It's older African-Americans who do the souls to the polls with the church buses and all that stuff is in the hands of those church grandmamas. And if you can't find a way to get to those church grandmamas, I'm telling you, those hip-hop kids, they love Killer Mike (ph), but they do not beat a pathway to the voter booth.

BROWN: Church grandmamas.

KOFINIS: And, Pamela, you know -

BROWN: Yes, quickly, Chris.

KOFINIS: You know, real quick. What I - what I would say is, you know, this is bigger than just South Carolina because you've got Super Tuesday literally days after. And for - for Senator Sanders to communicate, this is not just about South Carolina. It's your ability to make that message clear in those states where you're going to be competing basically nationally. They haven't done that. And if he doesn't, the outcome is going to be about as clear as what happened in Nevada.

BROWN: All right, well, we will see how it play also out. Chris Kofinis, Van Jones, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

And a reminder for you now, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders tomorrow night come face-to-face with the voters of South Carolina in the CNN Democratic town hall live from Columbia. The CNN event moderated by my colleague, Chris Cuomo. That starts tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. only on CNN.

And up next, minutes from now, we are expecting the man accused in that Kalamazoo shooting rampage to appear in court for an arrangement. We will bring that to you live when it happens.

Plus, after a huge win in South Carolina for Donald Trump, it's the question that many in the GOP are asking, is there any way to stop Trump? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:40] BROWN: The Uber driver accused of going on a deadly rampage is set to appear in court any minute now for the first time. Jason Brian Dalton was arraigned on six counts of murder, in addition to multiple assaults and firearms charges. Police arrested him early Sunday after they say he killed six people over seven hours at three different locations. It appears all of them were targeted randomly. Two other people were wounded. Prosecutors say that between these attacks, Dalton continued to pick up Uber passengers. Can you believe that? Two customers describe what it was like riding alongside a man they had no idea was wanted for murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT MELLEN, UBER PASSENGER: He got maybe a mile from my house. He got a telephone call. And after that telephone call, he started driving really erratically. We were kind of driving through medians, driving through lawn, speeding along and then finally, once he came to a stop, I jumped out of the car and ran away.

UBER CUSTOMER, ASKED SUSPECT IF HE WAS "THE SHOOTER": He didn't seem like the type - I mean our interaction with him was very basic. It was like a five-minute ride. And I said, you're not the shooter, are you? And he said, no. And I said, are you sure? And he kind of just said, no, I'm just tired, I've been driving for seven hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Unbelievable. Dalton was captured at a railroad crossing less than 20 minutes after dropping off that last man you heard from and his family at a hotel.

[14:30:01] CNN's Ryan Young is live in Kalamazoo with more on today's hearing.