Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Harry Reid Endorses Hillary Clinton; Is Sanders Prepared To Be Commander In Chief?; Sanders' Campaign Reacts To Reid Endorsing Clinton; Trump Hits Campaign Trail; Cruz Campaign; Super Tuesday Race. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 24, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment getting ready for a very big deal, the big CNN Republican debate that takes place tomorrow night. But right now, it's 10:00 a.m. in Las Vegas, it's 1:00 p.m. here in New York and 7:00 p.m. in Damascus, Syria. Wherever you are watching from around the world, thank you so much for joining us.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: And we do want to start with just that, breaking news. Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has just picked up -- picked up a very big endorsement. In an exclusive interview with CNN, the top Democrat in the Senate, Senator Harry Reid, is throwing his weight behind Clinton.

CNN's Senior Political Reporter Manu Raju just spoke with the senator. He joins us now from Capitol Hill. Manu, this is a very big thing.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It is. Harry Reid becomes the highest ranking Democratic official to get behind Hillary Clinton. It's a sign that the party leadership hopes that the party can start to consolidate behind her as she struggles to fend off that insurgent candidacy from Bernie Sanders.

Now, Bernie Sanders, of course, is a senator, but he doesn't have any senator support at this time. Forty senators have publicly expressed their support behind Hillary Clinton. Harry Reid becoming the latest and most significant. I had a chance to just sit down with him just now and he laid out his thinking about he's decided to put his weight behind secretary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think the middle-class would be better served by Hillary. I think that my work with her over the years has been something that I have looked upon with awe. When she was the first lady, she started the trend toward doing something about health care. She understood the issue well. She was the front of health care during that administration. I also think that she's the woman to be the first president of the United States that's a female.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Hillary Clinton also won his home state of Nevada just last Saturday and there was suspicion that Harry Reid was trying to tilt the scales in her favor by working behind the scenes to help her. I asked him specifically about that. He denied having a role trying to help her. He said that people actually thought he was trying to help Bernie Sanders at the time.

Also, Kate, it was interesting. I talked to him a couple weeks ago. He was pretty critical of Hillary Clinton's campaign in Nevada a couple -- about what they were saying, sort of dismissing Nevada or down playing Nevada. He says that's sort of water under the bridge, a spokesman spoke out of turn but it's really a sign that the party hopes that right now they can start to move beyond this increasingly divisive primary contest.

BOLDUAN: This is not only the highest ranking Democratic official to make an endorsement to Hillary Clinton. We're talking about a man who has also worked for years with Senator Bernie Sanders in that very chamber. Did Harry Reid talk to Sanders? Tell me more about your conversation.

RAJU: Yes, he did. You know, they spoke -- that's the first thing that Harry said. He said, I called Bernie Sanders. I explained to him my decision why. I said, well, how did Bernie Sanders react to that? He said he wouldn't get into it. He said, you've got to talk to Bernie Sanders about it.

But he refused to criticize Senator Sanders. I asked him, was he ready to be commander and chief? Even as other Senate Democrats have questioned whether or not Bernie Sanders is prepared to be commander in chief. Harry Reid would not touch that. He said, I'm only here to talk about Hillary Clinton.

Similarly, he also told me a couple weeks ago that he thinks this contest could potentially go to the Democratic convention. I asked him, again, do you think this contest could go to the Democratic convention? He said, well, I just don't know. So, clearly, he's not quite sure what to make of the Sanders' candidacy, whether or not he could continue to hang on there. But at the very least, he hopes that the party could get behind Hillary.

BOLDUAN: Manu, great interview and an important part of this conversation note only going into the South Carolina primary this weekend but this is an important endorsement, important voice coming from Harry Reid, the top Democrat in the Senate, endorsing Hillary Clinton today, to Manu Raju in that exclusive interview. Manu, thank you so very much.

As Manu raised -- as Manu raised just there in his interview, he ask -- he said he asked Harry Reid what Bernie Sanders' reaction was and Harry Reid said he would not say.

Well, let's find out from the Sanders' campaign on what did they make of this pickup, of this endorsement. Joining us now, let's find out. Let's bring in Symone Sanders, the National Press Secretary for the Sanders' campaign.

Symone, thank you so much for joining us. So, we heard right there from Manu that Harry Reid called Bernie Sanders before this all, obviously, became public. What was Senator Sanders' reaction to finding out that Hillary Clinton got Harry Reid's endorsement?

SYMONE SANDERS, NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY, BERNIE 2016: Senator Sanders has a great amount of respect for Senator Reid. He has worked with him in the Senate for years. And he praised him on the -- on the forum stage just the other night.

[13:05:03] So, you know, Senator Reid has made his decision but Senator Sanders, he still has a lot of respect for Senator Reid. You know, they have a great working relationship, and he considers him a friend.

BOLDUAN: A disappointment though?

SYMONE SANDERS: Pardon me?

BOLDUAN: A disappointment not getting Reid's endorsement if he considers him a friend?

SYMONE SANDERS: I mean, you know, Senator Sanders is -- he is concerned with the endorsement of the American people. So, while we would have loved Senator Reid's endorsement, what I think matters most in this contest, especially in this --

BOLDUAN: Looks like we are having technical difficulties. Do we have Symone back, guys?

SYMONE SANDERS: What matters most -- it's a little windy out here so you can imagine what's going on. What matters most in this election -- what matters most in this election is the endorsement of the American people. And so, while Senator Sanders would love have the endorsement support of Senator Reid, we are still going forward in this nominating contest.

But does -- what is important is the fact that we've substantially closed the gap in Nevada this past weekend. And we are looking forward. And we're looking forward to South Carolina and March one states and all the way through to the convention to close those gaps in other places and win the support of the American people. That's the endorsement we are most concerned about.

BOLDUAN: And thank you for rolling with these technical punches, Symone, I really appreciate it. I want to get to talk about South Carolina and Super Tuesday but one more thing about what we just heard in that exclusive interview with Harry Reid. He told Manu that he thought Hillary Clinton would be the best. He would do better for the middle class, at one point saying that his work with her -- in his work with her, he looked upon it with awe. What do you say to that?

SYMONE SANDERS: Well, again, with enormous respect for Senator Reid, but Senator Sanders has been spent his entire life standing up for hard-working American people of this country. There is not a better friend to union in this race than Senator Sanders. There is not another candidate in this race that will stand up to the billionaire class in America that will stand up to Wall Street and that will advocate the hard-working American people. The senator's policies and platforms that he has put forth is a winning policy and platform for the American people.

So, again, we are going to continue to make this case to voters across the country. We're in South Carolina right now. We are -- we look forward to this Saturday, March one state. And we think that his message is strong and his platform, again, is a winning platform for hard-working Americans in this country.

BOLDUAN: Symone, thanks so much. Stick around with me, actually. We're going to try to rework this connection. I want to continue this conversation. A lot more for us to discuss, especially the contest this Saturday and beyond. So, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back with Symone Sanders, a spokesperson for the Bernie Sanders' campaign on this breaking news that Harry Reid has endorsed Hillary Clinton for president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Let's bring back in Symone Sanders, the National Press Secretary for the Bernie Sanders campaign. She's joining me now on the phone. Symone, thank you, again, for dealing with the -- these challenges of technology of live television. I appreciate it. Let's talk about the contest going forward now. If you look at Bernie Sanders' travel schedule in the -- in the next couple days, it really looks very Super Tuesday and beyond focused. But you have this contest in South Carolina this Saturday which has a lot of folks wondering, is Bernie Sanders writing off South Carolina?

SYMONE SANDERS (via telephone): Well, no, Bernie Sanders is not writing off South Carolina. Look, the first stop we made after Nevada was South Carolina. The senator held a press conference here today talking about the issues of the -- of poverty. And we had Representative Bamberg with us, Representative Joe O'Neil. Representative Bamberg's district is one of the poorest districts in South Carolina. The senator highlighted the need to invest in areas such as Bamberg and Bamberg County and Barnwell County.

So, no, we're not writing off South Carolina. Look, got 200 paid staffers on the ground in South Carolina. We have 10 offices. We have made over a million voter attempts, that includes doors knocked and phone calls made. We haven't met the substantial resources here. We just sent another radio ad to South Carolina yesterday. We're on television.

But we do have Super Tuesday coming up. But we are invested in South Carolina for sure, but we're also invested in making sure that we get in touch with those other very important states. So, we'll be back to South Carolina on Friday, but the senator is also going out there and making his case to folks today in Tulsa, in Kansas City, tomorrow in Chicago, because we believe that, you know, we're in this for the long hall. This is a fight that's going to go all the way through to the convention. BOLDUAN: Yes. Sanders said today in the press conference, he said,

we're going to win some, we're going to lose some. I mean, that's about as honest as you can be and that's about as much as -- as much fortune telling that you can -- that you can look into the future. But what is -- Hillary Clinton -- the fact of the matter is Hillary Clinton is polling very well in South Carolina. What is a win for you guys in South Carolina?

SYMONE SANDERS: Well, look, I'm not going jinx us but I will say that we are committed to closing the gap here in South Carolina. And I think we've done -- we've demonstrated we can do that. Look, when this started, the senator was polling in single digits. We have now closed those gaps and I think we are going to see them close even just a little bit more on Saturday.

But this is a long nominating contest. I think South Carolina is just the beginning. We have March one contests. We have March 5th, March 8th, March 15th and we go through to the end of March all the way to April. This is not a nominating contest that's going to be decided, you know, by these first four states and then Super Tuesday. This is something that is going to go well into -- well into April, May, June, I think all the way through to the convention. We're fighting for the long haul. This is going to be about delegates.

Again, we win some, we lose some. But we think our message is a message that resonates with hardworking American people across this country. We have seen gaps close in Nevada. We came from where Secretary Clinton had a 40-plus point lead over Senator Sanders to coming within, I think, it was six points last weekend. So, this is a winnable contest and we're in it to win it.

[13:15:02] BOLDUAN: Symone Sanders, we really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. We will see you on the trail. Symone Sanders, the national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders campaign.

Let's turn now to the race for the Republican presidential nomination. Donald Trump riding high on the campaign trail today after a very big win in the Nevada caucuses. He won just under 46 percent of the vote, more than Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz combined. Trump just wrapped up an event at Regent University in Virginia Beach, speaking to voters in that Super Tuesday state. He promised to tackle issues central to his campaign, including illegal immigration. Listen a bit to Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So we're going to be very strong on the borders. We're going to be very, very strong on trade. We're going to be very strong on protecting our Second Amendment. We're going to get rid of Common Core, which is basically education through Washington, which is a disaster, by the way, and you understand that. And we're going to get rid of Obamacare. Obamacare is -- turned out to be a total disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: Donald Trump is hoping to harness the momentum from his Nevada win as the race now heads straight into Super Tuesday. Eleven states vote on that super day, which has the other campaigns scrambling to find a path to stop Trump's march for the Republican nomination.

Let's go to Phil Mattingly right now, who's following the Trump campaign in Virginia Beach today.

What was -- what more did voters hear from Donald Trump today? What was his big message?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, he's relentlessly on message. It's strength. Over and over again strength and repeating that list that you just played there. It's what's working and he's not going to diverge from it. To a number of voters that I spoke with over the last hour, hour and a half, that's what they continue to reference, Donald Trump represents strength, whether it's on national security, whether it's on domestic issues, whether it's trade, as he talks about pretty regularly.

And I think the most interesting thing, Kate, is, as we've seen in the past, three contests, that is a message that is working. And as we head into Super Tuesday where 25 percent of the available delegates in the Republican primary are up for grabs, Donald Trump is riding a wave of momentum and that message is clearly resonating, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Resonating. And since it's been working for them to this point, is there any suggestion that the Trump campaign is going to be shifting strategy as they head into Super Tuesday? The only thing that could come to mind is, when is he going to -- is he going to take on Marco Rubio more directly, because that's who placed second behind him in Nevada?

MATTINGLY: The Trump campaign's very comfortable with where they are right now. I think they're very comfortable when they look at the map. Kate, over the next couple of days, Donald Trump will be making a swing through the deep south. And I think one of the most interesting elements of the lead-up to Super Tuesday, or the SEC primary as we've been calling it for a long time is, that's where Ted Cruz really set up his firewall. He's organized in these early -- or in these southern states. He's got a good staff work. He's got good data operations down there. And yet Donald Trump is up by double digits in most of those states, Kate.

So I don't think the campaign thinks that they have a lot of changes to make. There's more of, let's sit back and watch Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio try and joust with one another because neither seems willing to really take Donald Trump on face to face so long as the other one is out there, Kate.

BOLDUAN: We've got the big CNN debate coming tomorrow and that will be the next stage for them to see where this battle heads, because it has gotten nasty. CNN's Phil Mattingly. Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.

As Phil was mentioning Senator Ted Cruz, he did finish third in the Nevada caucuses, but that surely did not stop the senator from calling this a two-man race between him and Donald Trump. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And the up deniable reality that the first four states have shown is that the only campaign that has beaten Donald Trump and the only campaign that can beat Donald Trump is this campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about Ted Cruz's strategy. Let's bring in Ken Cuccinelli, the former attorney general of Virginia, also ran for governor there, and he's also a Ted Cruz supporter.

It's great to see you. Thanks so much, Ken.

KEN CUCCINELLI, PRESIDENT, SENATE CONSERVATIONS FUND: Good to be with you.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

So Cruz's advisors, they say that he has simply reached a boiling point with Trump. Basically that the gloves are now going to come off. I mean it's already gotten nasty between these guys. What does that look like? What do you think that's going to look like?

CUCCINELLI: Well, from our side, it looks like hammering him on issues. You know, it's great to talk about building the border wall. He gets credit for raising the immigration issue. But Ted Cruz's solution actually addresses illegal immigration better. Tripling the border patrolled addresses the 50 percent of people who come here illegally by overstaying their visas. They don't come across the border illegally. It addresses the fact that instead of Obamacare, Donald Trump wants to expand Medicaid by over 30 million people. We're already bankrupt and he hasn't offered any other solution, nor suggested how he'd pay for that. Ted has proposed a free market solution to replace Obamacare. And that kind of difference of ideas, we are going to keep making that contrast.

Coming from the Trump side, it's very personal, mostly over Twitter, and very ad hominem focused types of attacks. It is not taking issue with Ted's substantive positions, with his vision for America that, by the way, matches his 30-year history as a conservative. That consistency bears out well.

[13:20:03] And let me tell you one thing that's really risen to the top. Nobody argues, no supporters for any other candidates have argued with me that Ted Cruz is the best prepared candidate we've ever had to pick Supreme Court justices. Having clerked for Rehnquist, having won awards that Democrats voted to give him as solicitor general of Texas for doing such a good job defending the Constitution, and, of course, what he's done in the Senate. He is better prepared than any Republican candidate ever to pick good justices and the Supreme Court hangs in the balance. That's been a big deal to swing a number of voters.

BOLDUAN: Ken, let me ask you, you know Virginia quite well. Can Ted Cruz win Virginia on Super Tuesday?

CUCCINELLI: Yes. I mean we're going to win somewhere between one and 11 states next Tuesday. I -- you know --

BOLDUAN: Ah, that -- thank you for putting -- putting it out there.

CUCCINELLI: Absolutely. Right -- right in -- right in the target.

BOLDUAN: You're really step -- you're --

CUCCINELLI: But, in Virginia, we've had -- we've had phone banks running for some time with hundreds of people participating. We haven't had a presidential primary with this kind of interest in a long time.

BOLDUAN: What do you think the chances are he can win Virginia, though?

CUCCINELLI: One in two. So --

BOLDUAN: You've got to play along.

CUCCINELLI: Yes. Well, you know, look, this is a two person race. You have to win races. We're going to play to win in Virginia --

BOLDUAN: How is it a two-person race when he placed third behind Marco Rubio in Nevada?

CUCCINELLI: Look, this is about coming in first or not. And Ted is one in three. We'd rather be 4-0. Trump is 3-1. Everyone else is 0-4. You have to win states. And when pressed, Marco can only say, well, "I'm hoping I'll win Florida." Well, if you're hoping you'll win your home state halfway through March when over half the delegate are already selected, that's just too late. It's just too late.

We are going to take this on an issue basis to Donald Trump because on an issue basis Ted's consistent conservative principles and his willingness to actually fight the leadership of Washington, not just talk about it but actually do it, really stands him in good stead. It's a tremendous contrast to Donald Trump and, frankly, to Marco Rubio.

BOLDUAN: There's been a lot of chatter today about -- especially among some big Cruz surrogate in Iowa saying that he needs to stop talking about taking on Marco Rubio. He's got to focus all on Donald Trump. Do you think there has been a problem here? Has he focused too much on Marco Rubio, not enough on Donald Trump?

CUCCINELLI: No. You know, this -- it is a multi-candidate field. There's five people still vying for this. But as an effect matter, the only ones who've won a race are Trump and Cruz. And so I think you'll see, as you noted from the campaign, a greater focus on the issue difference between Ted Cruz as a conservative and Donald Trump, who's not a conservative, on the campaign trail. We'll continue to make the contrast on things like immigration and taking on the establishment versus joining the establishment with Marco Rubio in Washington. But, you know, we're in this to win and to win next Tuesday in somewhere between one and 11 states. We've got to beat not just Marco Rubio, we've got to beat Donald Trump. And we've -- we're the only campaign that's done that. We're the only conservatives that have done it.

BOLDUAN: Ken Cuccinelli -- Ken Cuccinelli sticking his neck out there, giving a crazy prediction about Super Tuesday chances.

CUCCINELLI: That's right.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Ken, appreciate it.

Let's talk more about this. What more to expect from Senator Ted Cruz and the other candidates on Super Tuesday. Well, even tomorrow for the CNN debate and beyond. Let's bring in right now Angela Rye, she's a political strategist and former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Excuse me. You get me choked up, Doug. Doug Heye, a former communications director --

DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Not the first time.

BOLDUAN: For the RNC.

So, Doug, Trump didn't just win last night, he won big. Despite what we hear from Ken Cuccinelli and the Cruz campaign about how well they're doing, we know that the Republican establishment wants to stop Donald Trump and stop him very soon, but no one, to this point, has figured out how. What is your prescription?

HEYE: Yes, you know, you and I have talked about this since July. In July I wrote for "The Wall Street Journal," if you want to beat Donald Trump, you have to take him seriously as a candidate. And we've seen various machinations of Republicans not willing to do so. At first it was, well, Donald Trump's not serious. Then it was, well, you can't attack Trump because it won't work. And now the third solution is, well, we can't attack Trump because it's too late.

The answer is none of those. Donald Trump, as Ken Cuccinelli pointed out, has some serious policy weaknesses. And I -- Ken and I might disagree on who might be our nominee ultimately, but he has serious policy weaknesses and Republicans have to go after them. I don't think that our Republican voters are dumb voters who don't care about policy. Yes, strength internationally and with Congress is important, but we have a lot of issues out there which speak to exactly why so many voters are so upset and so angry. And if we don't go after that, Donald Trump not only is our nominee, but deserves to be our nominee.

BOLDUAN: Angela, let me turn really quickly to the Democrats because of the breaking news that we had at the top of the hour from Manu Raju that Senator Harry Reid, the top Democrat in the Senate, is endorsing Hillary Clinton. Not endorsing the man that he has served so many years with, Bernie Sanders, in that chamber. What do you make of that? What does that endorsement mean?

[13:25:05] ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: I don't know that it makes much of a difference now. I was actually talking to Doug about this earlier. And the fact that this endorsement is coming after the Nevada caucuses when there's of course been a ton of reports on Hillary Clinton's influence on the unions on the ground in Nevada, so it seemed like there was a de facto endorsement happening anyway and that he definitely had his thumb on the scale, tipping it for Hillary Clinton, of course, not saying that he didn't win in her own right, but saying that he was active and supportive in Nevada. It seems like this endorsement is just a day late and a dollar short and I'm curious as to why it's happening now as opposed to before the Nevada Democratic caucuses.

BOLDUAN: I mean, Doug, in another life, you also served on Capitol Hill. You were a deputy chief of staff for Eric Cantor and others. You know how it works. Is it a big deal that harry Reid endorsed Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders, someone who served in Congress for more than 20 years?

HEYE: I think a week ago it would have been a massive deal --

RYE: Right.

HEYE: And might have even increased Hillary Clinton's lead and she did an impressive job in Nevada. But right now, if you're looking up profiles in courage, Harry Reid endorsing Hillary Clinton after the Nevada caucuses is no profile in courage.

BOLDUAN: Doug -- Doug, let's look forward to Super Tuesday and beyond. What -- give -- if you can, sum up -- and use your magic ball, what is the path to success for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio on Super Tuesday? What can they call a win?

HEYE: Well, the -- you know, Ken Cuccinelli said between one and 11, right? It has to start with a one --

BOLDUAN: You better give me more than that.

HEYE: It has to start with a one. Exactly. Well, it has to start with a one, and that's Texas. The most recent polling in Texas suggests that it's neck and neck with Trump and not too far behind is Marco Rubio. If Ted Cruz can't win in Texas, his campaign's over. Marco Rubio could do well in Arkansas certainly where Governor Asa Hutchison has endorsed him. I'd also look at some of the suburban areas outside of Atlanta, for instance, outside of Richmond, northern Virginia. If Rubio can do well in those situations, he'll move himself forward. And, ultimately, it's about winning. But if you come in second instead of third, as Rubio did both in South Carolina and Nevada, you move forward. This is March Madness in the NCAAs. It's about advancing forward.

BOLDUAN: Advancing forward is also a question on the Democratic side, Angela. I'm going to get your take. On the Democratic side, what do you think the Super Tuesday map looks like come Wednesday post Super Tuesday?

RYE: Well, first I think that we have to acknowledge the fact that there are more than 1,000 delegates up for grabs for the Democrats in these -- in these contests. They're very, very important. Of course, Doug has hit on Texas, but I'd also flag Alabama. There's also Georgia. They have to pay attention and Bernie Sanders has to demonstrate his ability to not only get support but galvanize black voters in some of these states.

We, of course, know South Carolina has not yet come up for the Democrats where 50 -- more than 50 percent of the voters are African- American. Bernie Sanders has been speaking somewhat the language of an African-American political agenda, but he hasn't gone far enough. In fact, there are Congressional Black Caucus members that said when he was in the House they never worked with him. So he's got to demonstrate that he didn't just walk -- march with Dr. King, but that he also has a policy agenda that he can push and it sounds a lot more attractive than the mass incarceration buzz words and black youth unemployment.

BOLDUAN: And all in a couple days left before those voters head to the polls in South Carolina.

RYE: That's right.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you guys. Angela, Doug, thank you so much.

HEYE: Thank you.

RYE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: And a big reminder, before all of that is the final debate before Super Tuesday. That takes place tomorrow night right here on CNN. Our Wolf Blitzer is going to be moderating as the five Republican rivals face off in Houston, Texas. Tune in, 8:30 Eastern tomorrow night on both CNN and CNN international.

Still ahead for us, though, President Obama's battle with Republicans in Congress over the future of Guantanamo Bay and the U.S. Supreme Court. We're going to take you live to the White House for more. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)