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GOP Rivals Turn on Donald Trump in Explosive Debate; Marco Rubio Holds First Post Debate Rally; Former Mexican President Says He Won't Pay for Wall; Kansas Gunman Killed Three People, Wounded 14. Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired February 26, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:01] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
It was a Republican debate like no other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he builds the wall the way he built Trump Towers he'll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So cute. Such a cute sound bite.
RUBIO: There are people that borrowed $36,000 to go to Trump University.
TRUMP: Hold on. Let me tell you --
WOLF BLITZER, CNN DEBATE MODERATOR: Hold on. One at a time, Mr. Trump.
RUBIO: And they're suing him now. $36,000 to go to a university.
TRUMP: And by the way -- and by the way.
RUBIO: That's a fake school.
TRUMP: And by the way --
RUBIO: And you know what they got? They got to take a picture with a cardboard cutout of Donald Trump.
TRUMP: I've won most of the lawsuits.
BLITZER: All right.
RUBIO: If he hadn't inherited $200 million, you know where Donald Trump would be right now?
TRUMP: No, no, no. No, no, no.
RUBIO: Selling watches is Manhattan. TRUMP: I borrowed --
RUBIO: You lied about the Polish workers.
TRUMP: Yes, yes, yes.
RUBIO: You lied to the students of Trump University.
TRUMP: Thirty-eight years ago.
RUBIO: He lied 38 years ago. All right. I guess there's a statute of limitations on lies.
What is your plan? What is your plan on health care? You don't have a plan.
TRUMP: The biggest problem --
RUBIO: Every night he says five things. Everyone is dumb, he's going to make America great.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Rubio --
RUBIO: We're going to win, win, win. He's winning in the polls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Rubio, please. Please stop.
RUBIO: The lines around the table. Every night. Same thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK, as you saw, Rubio hitting Trump and hitting him hard last night in Houston. Today, Donald Trump is shrugging off those attacks, and he has the series of tweets, the latest of which I have in my hand. He said, "Lightweight choker Marco Rubio looks like a little boy on stage. Not presidential material."
Donald Trump tweeting so often this morning, he often misspells word -- misspells words, he I misspelled choker. He wrote "chalker." Earlier he wrote in a tweet, honor, misspelling it and likely that he misspelled that, too. But I just think he's tweeting so fast and furious, he is not really paying attention.
OK, so Rubio, he is already back out on the campaign trail after that fiery debate. You're looking at live pictures now.
Jason Carroll is there among the crowd. We'll check in with him in just a second. But first the big question. Will Rubio's new strategy hurt Trump ahead of Super Tuesday or is it too late?
CNN's Sunlen Serfaty live in Houston with that. Good morning.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Well, the dust still settling here in Houston after that fiery debate, and it really was this dynamic, that new aggressiveness from Marco Rubio, also from Ted Cruz, that really dominated and controlled so much of the debate. They went after Donald Trump on issue after issue. And specifically over immigration reform. This is where right off the bat we saw Marco Rubio make his first aggressive move, really trying to corner Donald Trump on his hiring practices.
Here is that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I hired tens of thousands of people over my lifetime. Tens of thousands.
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIO: Many from other countries --
TRUMP: Be quiet. Let me talk. I've hired tens of thousands of people.
RUBIO: If he builds the wall the way he built Trump Towers, he'll be using illegal immigration labor to do it.
TRUMP: So cute. Such a cute sound bite.
RUBIO: It's not a sound bite. It's a fact. Again, go online and Google it, Donald Trump, Polish workers, you'll see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY: Now both Rubio and Cruz also tried to push Donald Trump to get more specific on policy proposals, really tried to provoke him on this issue. It really set off Donald Trump. Here's one more contentious moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: What is your plan? What is your plan on health care? You don't have a plan. The biggest problem --
TRUMP: One minute -- the biggest problem he's got is he doesn't know.
RUBIO: What is your plan?
TRUMP: You know, I watched him melt down two weeks ago with Chris Christie. I got to tell you, the biggest problem he's got is he really doesn't know about the lines. You have many different plans. You'll have competition, you'll have so many different plans.
RUBIO: But now he's repeating himself.
TRUMP: No, no, no, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY: The fallout really continues today already, as you said, we've seen Donald Trump tweeting up a storm after last night's debate. Really labeling Marco Rubio in a tweet this morning, "Mr. Meltdown." Now Donald Trump will have a press conference later today. It'll be fascinating to watch this new rivalry unfold -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Fascinating is one word to describe it. Sunlen Serfaty, reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
The Marco momentum, though, is back. Rubio holding his first post CNN debate rally in Dallas this morning. Let's take a look at the stage right now. Rubio trying to keep up the energy after he landed hit after hit on Donald Trump last night.
Jason Carroll is there, looks like a big crowd.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, yes, and he is keeping up the energy with his supporters out here. This is one of the larger crowds that we've seen coming out for Marco Rubio. They are re-energized.
Some of the supporters telling me that the Marco Rubio that showed up on that stage last night is the man that they have been waiting for, for quite some time. Marco Rubio keeping with that new strategy of going after Trump, still going after him this morning on some of the morning talk shows, saying that this is a man who is not ready to be commander-in-chief. That a Trump presidency would lead to nothing but chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:05:02] RUBIO: Someone take over the conservative movement in the Republican Party who's a con artist. He's out there telling people that he's fighting -- he's going to -- you know, his target audience is working Americans, who are really struggling over the last few years in this economy, but he has spent a career sticking it to working Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: One of the Rubio supporters this morning telling me that she feels re-energized crowd out here. The question is, Carol, will this new momentum be enough to propel him to a victory on Super Tuesday, one of those Super Tuesday states, or perhaps even later, on March 15th, in his own state of Florida, where one poll shows Trump still beating him -- Carol.
COSTELLO: That's true. Jason Carroll, reporting live this morning from Dallas. Thank you.
So Donald Trump, con artist is Marco Rubio's newest label for the frontrunner. If that doesn't work, Rubio's campaign is prepping for a contested Republican convention.
Let's talk about all of this now with me, Jeffrey Lord, Trump supporter and former adviser to Ronald Reagan, and Tara Setmayer, former Republican communications director on Capitol Hill.
Welcome to both of you.
TARA SETMAYER, FORMER CAPITOL HILL GOP COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Jeffrey, I want to start with you.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, carol.
COSTELLO: Good morning, Jeffrey. This is how Mr. Trump responded when asked about Marco Rubio's attacks during last night's debate. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Marco Rubio started on his Web site selling watches as a pretend gimmick to say that they're watches that, you know, would have been yours had you would been selling, but they're just donations for him. It was a quick response during the national debate. What do you make of the move?
TRUMP: Look, the problem with Marco, he's a choke artist. He chokes. And he did it in front of Chris Christie. I've never seen anything like that. I was standing right next to him. I looked over and said, are you OK? I mean, he was -- it looked like he just came out of a swimming pool, he was soaking wet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So, Jeffrey, you worked for Ronald Reagan. Would Ronald Reagan say something like that?
LORD: Well, Ronald Reagan had a pretty good sense of humor about a lot of things.
But, look, Carol, here is the important thing. I mean, is Donald Trump Reagan-like in many respects? Sure, and I've talked about. But no two human souls are alike. In that sense, he's not Ronald Reagan.
But in understanding the basics of what is disturbing America in 2016 as Ronald Reagan did so very accurately in 1980, they are very much the same. And they're getting the same kind of support across the board from all classes, all -- I mean, Latinos, you know, men, women, all ages, all income levels. They are in that respect very similar.
COSTELLO: Really? Jeffrey, you think that Donald Trump is just like Ronald Reagan? Really?
LORD: Are you asking me?
COSTELLO: I am asking you? Because I don't think Ronald Reagan would have --
(CROSSTALK)
LORD: Yes. Yes. Yes.
COSTELLO: Would have used his sense of humor in that way.
LORD: Well, they're not -- they're not the same. Right. They're not the same personality, of course not, of course not. They're two totally different people. I mean, everyone on earth is, you know, a different, unique person. Hence, the whole point of America for freedom and liberty for individuals.
But so Donald Trump is a New Yorker, he's down to earth, and I can only tell you, I mean, look, he has now won -- came in a close second in Iowa, and he won New Hampshire and South Carolina, and Nevada, overwhelmingly. I mean at some point, we've got to stop and think, why are people responding to Donald Trump? It's not just because of his insults. I think that -- you know, when he says things like this, I think they see a blunt honesty, instead of a phoniness that a lot of politicians have.
You know, when Marco Rubio talks about these kinds of things, and being a con artist, I mean, this is the man from the Gang of Eight. I mean, there are a lot of people see this kind of thing, it's just political talk and this is what gets us into trouble in the first place.
COSTELLO: But I think, Tara, last night that Marco Rubio did more than just insult Donald Trump. He threw a lot of facts his way. Isn't that right?
SETMAYER: Well, that's the difference. That's the answer to your question, Carol. No, Donald Trump is not anything like Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan wasn't a hypocrite bully imposter of the conservative movement, which is what Donald Trump is. You know, Donald Trump has been misleading people all of this time with this rhetoric and insults and his showmanship and this reality show caricature.
He has tapped into anger with the American people that's true. But I don't know what his take in the Republicans this long to point out Donald Trump's record of hypocrisy on these issues. Marco Rubio was absolutely correct about pointing out that Trump used illegal immigrant labor to build the Trump Towers. That he's using illegal immigrant labor to build the project in Washington, D.C. That he skips small business owners and other folks during his four bankruptcies. You know, that he's a vexatious litigant who just sues everyone whenever they say something about him or point out his behavior, his record on things, he's going to sue them.
I mean, those are not attributes that Ronald Reagan ever had and the fact that people are now finally starting to hear what Donald Trump actually stands for in his own words and seeing it there, I don't know what took them so long. It should have been done six months ago.
COSTELLO: So, Jeffrey, how do you respond to that? Because what Tara said is true. I mean, the attacks on Trump view, there is a fraud case filed against it. Donald Trump does have -- does have bankruptcies in his past. He did hire people from outside the country.
(CROSSTALK)
LORD: Well, there --
SETMAYER: Over Americans. Over Americans.
COSTELLO: Over Americans.
[10:10:14] LORD: Look, they're part of the price of doing business. Now has he made mistakes in his business career? Sure. But how many businesses has Rubio owned? I mean, how many people has he employed? I mean, when you look at Marco Rubio, you're looking at a man who's never hired somebody for a job outside of a public official role, the public sector, the public trough, if you will, in his life. This is what he does.
COSTELLO: OK.
LORD: This is what he does.
COSTELLO: OK. So -- well, so Donald Trump is a businessman, right? So how is he going to stop other businessmen from making those wise business choices that he supposedly did, you know, to increase their -- how is he going to convince them not to do these things exactly?
LORD: Are you saying how can he keep an eye on other businessmen? Is that what you're saying?
COSTELLO: Yes, how can he say to other -- you know, I made a lot of money by hiring people from outside of the country.
LORD: I'll give you -- I'll give you --
COSTELLO: But now I want you to stop.
LORD: I'll give you -- I'll give you a quick example. Joseph B. Kennedy, the father of President Kennedy, was a notorious stock speculator. Franklin Roosevelt put him in charge of the SEC, Securities and Exchange administration. People said it was like putting a fox in to watch the hen house. Instead he turned out to be an excellent SEC administrator and got all kinds of praise for it precisely because he knew all the tricks of the trade.
Donald Trump knows what's going on here and he is, you know, ready to put a stop to this stuff.
SETMAYER: I don't know why anyone would believe that Donald Trump all of a sudden has had a come to Jesus moment and in the last 40 years, his business practices, his liberal leanings on things, the money that he's donated to liberal caucus, all of these actions, his actual record --
LORD: Just like Ronald Reagan did.
SETMAYER: He had a come to Jesus moment -- that wasn't -- Jeffrey, you and I both know that was over like a 30-year period of time. It wasn't a year and half and for political expediency, which is what Donald Trump has done right now. People are actually going to believe it now. He is going to change course and he's going to do everything against his own interests? Donald Trump has only been about Donald Trump his entire career. All
of a sudden, now we're supposed to believe he has a public servant heart? I mean, it's about time that people starts to see and he's exposed for the narcissist, self-serving person that he is. He's a hypocrite and an impostor for conservatives. And you as someone who's worked for Ronald Reagan should know better. Jeff, come on.
LORD: What's going on here -- what's going on is that the Republican establishment is in full panic mode. And I might add, having been around at the time, they didn't like Ronald Reagan either. And they -- I mean, he was supposed to be a war monger, an extremist, he was just an old man, he was just an actor, he had no business in the presidency.
We have been down this road before and we're going down this road again for exactly the same reason. The Republican establishment is in trouble. They deserve to be in trouble. And the American people in the Republican Party base have had it.
COSTELLO: All right, I have to -- I have to leave it there.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: But at least Ronald Reagan had a record in government that you could point to as success.
COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. Jeffrey Lord, Tara Setmayer, thanks to both of you.
LORD: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: You're welcome.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Vice President Joe Biden apologizing to Mexico for the rhetoric coming from some Republican presidential candidates. Should he have done that?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:17:00] COSTELLO: Vice President Joe Biden had some harsh words for Republican rhetoric in Mexico. He told Mexican officials some of the rhetoric is dangerous and that it doesn't reflect how most Americans feel.
The former Mexican president, though, Vicente Fox, was much more blunt when it came to Mr. Trump's wall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: I declare, I'm not going to pay for that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wall. He should pay for it. He's got the money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Fox's comments did not sway Trump at last night's debate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I will and the wall just got 10 feet taller. Believe me. It just got 10 feet taller. I saw him make that -- I saw him make the statement. I saw him use the word that he used. I can only tell you, if I would have used even half of that word, it would have been national scandal.
This guy used a filthy, disgusting word on television, and he should be ashamed of himself and he should apologize, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: With me now, CNN correspondent Rafael Romo and CNN Espanol anchor and senior correspondent, Juan Carlos Lopez.
Welcome to both of you. So, Rafael, is Vicente Fox likely to apologize for using that word?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I don't think so. It's not the first time he does it. He's done it before. I remember talking to him when he was campaigning for the Mexican presidency in the year 2000, and he used, shall we say, colorful language when he was campaigning. And that was part of the reason, in a very Donald Trump way, that many Mexicans preferred him over his -- over the other candidates because he spoke in such a way that people were able to relate to him. So I don't see Vicente Fox coming back and issuing an apology for what he said -- Carol.
COSTELLO: So, Juan Carlos, is some of the rhetoric that's going on in the United States hurting relations between Mexico and the United States?
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN ESPANOL ANCHOR: Yes and no. People are beginning -- we saw what was happening from Mexico. You saw it as something curious, people offended by what Donald Trump said, but government to government, relations are fine. You see there, Vice President Biden went and met with President Pena Nieto. They talked about this issue. But the relation is a lot more solid than whatever Donald Trump can say at a debate. I think at this moment, things between Mexico and the U.S. will probably be described by experts at a very good level.
COSTELLO: Do people in Mexico, Rafael, really believe that a wall will be built? I mean, do they think that's a real possibility?
ROMO: Well, the joke for a long time in Mexico is give me a 21-foot wall and I will give you a 22-foot ladder. So people laugh about statements like that. And I was in Mexico recently, and pinatas in the shape of Donald Trump are very, very popular. So he has become public enemy number one for Mexicans, but in a sort of like jokingly way. Not really.
[10:20:07] Mexican officials, former presidents, not only Vicente Fox, but his predecessor, President Felipe Calderon, have had very harsh things to say about Trump, but I don't think the Mexican people as a whole are listening to these messages as something coming from the United States as a whole, but only in the context of a very heated presidential contest, Carol.
COSTELLO: And Juan Carlos, talking about Hispanics within the United States, you know, that's a very powerful voting bloc, right? So Trump says Hispanics love him, yet according to a poll "Washington Post"- Univision poll, , 81 percent, 81 percent of Hispanics nationwide have an unfavorable view of Trump.
Are any of the other candidates on stage faring better? And is there anything Donald Trump can say to make Hispanics love him again?
LOPEZ: That's going to be really tough. It's interesting to see how he might turn it around. And we just have to look at recent history. Mitt Romney spoke about self-deportation. He never recovered with Hispanics and he did very poorly with Latinos in the election.
John McCain, who was and has been an advocate for immigration reform and for humane treatment of undocumented immigrants, he had a hard line during the primaries, he wasn't able to recover, even though he had a good track record with Latino voters. So an interesting thing was that last night, people seem to associate Latinos with immigration, that's not the only issue, but it gets a lot of people worked up.
And what Donald Trump has said so far is going to be very, very difficult to backtrack and to try to convince Latinos. He says he won the Latino vote in Nevada, he won the Latino in the Nevada caucuses, but the Latinos who participate in caucuses are a very small percentage of the overall Latino population.
COSTELLO: Yes. I think the number who voted for Trump in the Nevada caucuses numbered, what, 150 at the most? That's 150 Hispanic voters and that's about it.
You know, it's funny when you look at the exit polls from Nevada, even at the African-American votes, so few African-Americans participated in the caucuses. There was no count available. So it's a very interesting phenomenon in the state of Nevada.
Have to wrap it there. Rafael Romo, Juan Carlos Lopez, thanks to both of you.
Up next in the NEWSROOM, a workplace shooting in Kansas. This morning we're learning new details about the gunman and the hero cop who took him down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:26:55] COSTELLO: We are learning more about the gunman who opened fire on his coworkers in Kansas. He's been identified as 38-year-old Cedric Ford. The Harvey County sheriff says one of its deputies visited Ford at work hours before the shooting to serve an order of protection. Later that day, Ford opened fire in several locations killing three people and wounding 14. The sheriff says he chose his victims randomly.
Rosa Flores live in Hesston, Kansas, with more. Good morning, Rosa.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We are learning more disturbing and also heroic details about this rampage, but let me take you through this. It all starts, according to the sheriff, at 3:30 yesterday afternoon, with the sheriff's deputy serving a protective order to Mr. Ford at the plant that you see behind me. After that, he says that Ford became a bit upset.
Well, fast forward an hour and a half, and the first shot is fired about six miles from here. According to the sheriff, Ford shot an individual on the shoulder. And then moved forward to another intersection and shot someone on the leg, and then came here to this parking lot that you see behind me, and started shooting people in the parking lot. Shooting one person. Then going inside and also continuing that rampage.
Now here are some of the heroic details. We're told that there is a police officer who went into this building and started to try to control the situation and he did. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF T. WALTON, HARVEY COUNTY, KANSAS: That particular officer is a hero out of all of this. Understand there is probably 200 or 300 more people in that building while this is going on. This man was not going to stop shooting. The only reason he stopped shooting is because that officer stopped the shooter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Now that police officer is being called a hero. His name is not being released because this is an officer involved shooting, and needs to be investigated as such.
But, Carol, when it comes to motive, the sheriff here says that right now the preliminary motive that they have is that protective order that was served to Mr. Ford by a sheriff's deputy -- Carol .
COSTELLO: All right, Rosa Flores, reporting live from Kansas this morning. Thank you.
And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
It was an evening of insults and personal attacks during last night's GOP on CNN. Marco Rubio attacking Trump's character. Ted Cruz questioning the billionaire's conservative credentials. Trump fought back, launching brutal counter-punches of his own. Some highlights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome the Republican candidates for president of the United States.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Welcome to Texas.
RUBIO: When you're the only person on this stage that's ever been fined for hiring people to work on your projects illegally, you hired some workers from Poland.
TRUMP: No, no, I'm the only one on this stage that's hired people. You haven't hired anybody.
CRUZ: But let me say, Wolf, I really find it amazing that Donald believes that he is the one who discovered the issue of illegal immigration.
