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Donald Trump Rejects Endorsement of David Duke; NYT: GOP's "Desperate Mission" To Stop Trump; Trump Wants To "Open Up" Libel Laws; Emails Shed Light On Unravelling Of Michigan Disaster. Aired 2- 3p ET
Aired February 28, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:00:13] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know anything about David Duke, OK? I don't know anything about what you are even talking about with white supremacy or supreme assist.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Happening right now in the NEWSROOM. Today, Donald Trump dodging questions about the KKK tweeting he disavows the David Duke endorsement.
NEWSROOM starts now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
The search for clarity over who supports Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump is intensifying this hour. We are talking about Donald Trump and the KKK. Trump tweeting an hour ago that he disavows the white supremacist David Duke. Trump saying quote "as I stated at the press conference on Friday regarding David Duke I disavow." He posted a clip of that press conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, how do you feel about the endorsement from David Duke?
TRUMP: I didn't even know he endorsed me. David Duke endorsed me? I disavow, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So this comes on the heels of his interview this morning with Jake Tapper on CNN "STATE OF THE UNION" where Donald Trump dodged questions at that point about Duke's support.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I don't know anything about David Duke, OK. I don't know anything about what you are even talking about with white supremacy or supremacists. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Did he endorse me or what's going on? Because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so, you are asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: But, I guess, the question from the anti-defamation league is even if you don't know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you say unequivocally, you condemn them and don't want their support?
TRUMP: Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don't know what group you are talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group I know nothing about. I have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them and certainly I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong.
TAPPER: The Ku Klux Klan.
TRUMP: There may be groups in there that are fine and it would be unfair. So give me a list of the groups and I will let you know.
TAPPER: OK. I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan.
TRUMP: Honestly, I don't know David Duke. I don't believe have never met him. I am pretty sure I didn't meet him. And I just don't know anything about him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, let's bring in CNN's Chris Frates who is following the Trump campaign today from Alabama.
So what more is being said beyond this tweet?
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He, Fred. I will tell you, what is interesting about the interview with our Jake Tapper was he said he doesn't know David Duke. And that may be true. But going back 16 years, back in 2000 when Donald Trump decided not to run for the reform party presidential nomination, he said in part quote "the reform party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke. This is not company I wish to keep." So clearly, Donald Trump did know about David duke. Did know about his affiliation with the Ku Klux Klan. Of course, it is important to remind our viewers that David Duke was a former grand wizard of the white supremacist group.
And on Friday we heard he answered a question similar to Jake Tapper's this morning saying David Duke endorsed me, OK, all right. I disavow. And what is so interesting is after his interview on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning, Trump did tweet moments ago saying "as I stated on Friday, regarding David Duke I disavow." And what is so interesting here, Fred, is that tweet came after his Republican opponents started to hit him for refusing to disavow on CNN. Ted Cruz tweeting earlier today saying quote "really sad. Donald Trump, you are better than this. We should all agree racism is wrong. KKK is abhorrent." And Marco Rubio also weighing in saying that there is no way the Republican Party should nominate for president someone who refuses to repudiate the white supremacist group.
And also worth pointing out the GOP spokesman saying quote "are you kidding, of course the GOP has and does denounce these groups and people. So we will see, Fred, in just about an hour or so when Donald Trump comes to the stage at a rally here in Madison, Alabama, whether he talks about this a little bit more, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Frates, thank you so much. We will check back with you.
Let's talk more about this. Joining me right now, Larry Sabato, the director of the center for politics at the University of Virginia and Republican strategist Brian Morgenstern. Good too to both of you.
So Larry, let me begin with you. How do you explain this? Especially the sequence of events. First he disavows on Friday and then in the interview today, he tries to distance himself from a decision of disavowing and even saying he didn't know enough about this group, KKK or David Duke. But then, with the latest tweet saying, I made myself clear on Friday. I disavow. So what's behind this?
[14:05:00] LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Fred, it is almost inexplicable. It would be funny if it weren't so serious. David Duke is one of the most odious figures in all of American history. The grand wizard of the KKK and a neo-Nazi. And the Republican Party did, in fact, condemn Duke when he ran for governor of Louisiana in 1991.
As far as Trump goes, it's impossible that he does not know who David Duke was. So your correspondent, Chris, just cited an example from 2000. And just a few days ago, he commented on Duke's apparent endorsement of Trump. So my suggestion to Mr. Trump is, this is an answer to a question you really ought to memorize. Memorize it and use it frequently.
WHITFIELD: And then Brian, what did Donald Trump stand to gain by this kind of back and forth and this attempt at clarity or, you know, not jumping in to the fray of being more specific about his point of view for a moment?
BRIAN MORGENSTERN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You hit the nail on the head. Why would he do this? To steal headlines from his opponents. To note, disavow a guy on Friday and pretend not to know him on Sunday and then disavow him again. If you are not trying to steal headlines the reason he's had a tough few days. Rubio has been laying into him and calling him as a con artist. But this is another con because this is what he does. When the press cycle is going fairly for him, he questions somebody's birth certificate or somebody's eligibility. Now he is going to pull this stunt. And this is what he does. He, you know, pulls the wool over people's eyes and the press is playing in to it.
WHITFIELD: So, you see it as a stunt? You are calling it a stunt.
MORGENSTERN: Exactly.
WHITFIELD: Just simply to get attention.
MORGENSTERN: He is not damn enough to risk to be able to say I don't know who David Duke is. Give me break. He is stealing the cycle back from his opponents who are pummeling him. That's why he did this.
WHITFIELD: How do you see it, Larry? Does that make sense?
SABATO: It could be a stunt. And of course, he is appearing now in Alabama. Not that most people in Alabama would have anything to do with David Duke. But I think it is pretty clear too that Trump sends subliminal messages to various groups that may not be acceptable publicly in American politics, but he will be happy to accept their votes.
WHITFIELD: And yes. Do you see this as perhaps Donald Trump's way of saying I want everyone's support by not classifying any vote or any particular group as unappetizing, Brian?
MORGENSTERN: I don't think so because he came out and said I disavow, you know. So I mean, it was providing --.
WHITFIELD: That became an afterthought today.
MORGENSTERN: Right. But that was after the equivocation which he knew would be the headline. So he then gets to have his cake and eat too. He gets to plead ignorance and fame stupidity and then come out and, you know, reclaim the mantle of morality like an hour later. It's a stunt to get attention and we are buying in to it. And it is so frustrating.
WHITFIELD: And then Larry, you know, let's still talk about Donald Trump here. He also talked today about how some of the GOP are taking to social media to say they won't support him if he wins. Here's what he said to Jake Tapper on "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, I signed a pledge. And the pledge is a two-way street. And if it is not that way, you are going to have a problem. They are going to have a big problem with me. We have a tremendous amounts of people. And you know, we have a lot of people. I'm representing people. I'm not representing myself. I'm representing a lot of anger out. And there is -- we're not angry people but angry at the way the country is being run and a lot of them are angry at the way the Republican Party is being run, Jake.
TAPPER: Yes. I want to ask you about that.
TRUMP: The Republican Party is not being run properly.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about that because Republicans in Washington, D.C. are starting to tell Republican senators that they don't have to go to the convention if they are the nominee. That they should think of running against you if you are the nominee. That combined with Marco Rubio doing the never Trump hashtag. Do you think Republicans are violating the pledge? TRUMP: Totally. I mean, if they want to play the game I can play it
much better than they can. And I have a lot more people than they do. And you know, totally, if they are doing that, that is a total violation of the pledge, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: And so, Larry, how do you see this possible hypocrisy of the pledge?
SABATO: I think Republicans are headed for a split whether Trump is the nominee or not. This has gone so deep for so long. If Trump is the nominee, there's no way on God's green earth that many rank and file Republicans are going to be able to vote for him or go to the convention or do the things they normally do. And if he's not the nominee, many of his followers are going to be so angry, they are going to sit out the election. So the Republican Party has a big, fat problem.
[14:10:11] WHITFIELD: All right, Larry Sabato. OK, Brian, real quick. Ten seconds.
MORGENSTERN: Yes. I was going to say, this is -- talking about inducement of the breach. I mean, there are a few like given assumptions that we should take advantage of the candidate. Are you fascist? No. Are you a communist? No. Are you white supremacist? No. But you know, these are simple ones. So he is goating the party in to controversy and it is what he does best.
WHITFIELD: All right, Brian Morgenstern, Larry Sabato, thanks so much, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Always good to see you.
Just two days away from Super Tuesday, we will have complete coverage all day right here on CNN.
Meantime, up next, Marco Rubio just responding to Trump's interview saying Mr. Trump knows exactly who David Duke is and he did not stop there. That's coming up next.
Also ahead, Hillary Clinton with a very big win in South Carolina. Could this be an indicator of what to expect on Super Tuesday?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:14:08] WHITFIELD: Republican Marco Rubio just finished up a campaign event in Purcellville, Virginia. The crowd there very fired up. Senator Rubio weighed in on Donald Trump's interview with Jake Tapper today and his refusal to denounce white groups.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He had an interview on CNN. And he was asked repeatedly on CNN to repudiate David Duke, who is a well-known white supremacist racist. And he said he doesn't know who David Duke is. But the fact is that in the early '90s or at some point, 10 or 15 years ago when Donald Trump was thinking about running for president in the reform party, one of the reasons why he said he wasn't going to run is because David Duke was part of the reform party. So he knows exactly who David duke is.
He was asked this morning two times, will you repudiate and condemn the Ku Klux Klan and he refused to do that, as well. We cannot be a party that nominates someone who refuses to condemn white supremacists and the Ku Klux Klan. We cannot be a party who does that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:15:13] WHITFIELD: Our Jason Carroll is following the Rubio campaign.
And so, Jason, what more was said? And I guess more specifically what about Marco Rubio supporters? What are they saying about everything that's unfolded?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you in terms of his supporters, they are telling us they are really -- whenever he goes after Donald Trump it's something that they support. They are supporting this new strategy of going after him and going after him hard, whether it be on the issue of David Duke, whether it be on the issue of just being a con man. So I'm sure out here today we are going to be hearing a little bit more when Rubio taking stage out here. Him criticizing Donald Trump about this non-endorsement or endorsement, if you will, of David Duke.
We are going to be hearing more about the con man, which is what Rubio is pushing. And the reason he is doing this is because he says, look, he says I'm not a man, I'm not a candidate who wanted to get to this point. I didn't want to get to the point of this personal attacks but he said I'm the underdog here and America and American voters are not picking up, in his words on who this man Donald Trump really is, calling him a con man, not just when it comes to his business practices, the allegations about Trump University, but about him bring the true conservative which he says Donald Trump is not.
So look for him to keep up that strategy as we are heading into Super Tuesday. Keeping up the pressure on Trump whether it be terms of releasing his taxes, whether it be on the issue of David Duke or Trump University. What you can expect today is more of the same -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And so, Jason, it is the language of the con man or that he is not a true conservative what kind of traction is that getting particularly among Rubio supporters?
CARROLL: It is getting traction among supporters simply because they realize going in to Super Tuesday that their man is the underdog. If you look at recent polling he's not leading in any of the Super Tuesday states. And in fact, when pressed on with Super Tuesday states he felt as though as he could win he sort of dodged that issue and said look what we are going to do is pick up delegates on Super Tuesday. He did predict that he would win his home state of Florida. But his supporters know that going forward, he has got to start placing better than second or third. He has to start winning states if he is going to have a shot at the nomination. So would they like to see policy issues discussed? Yes. But for now going after Trump is something that they fully support.
WHITFIELD: All right. Jason Carroll in Mid Lothian, Virginia, thank you so much where Marco Rubio will be appearing there.
All right. Coming up, Hillary Clinton with a very big win in South Carolina. Could this be an indicator of what to expect on Super Tuesday?
Plus, Bill Clinton on the trail in a heated exchange with a protester over Benghazi. We will have that for you after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:21:36] WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. Hillary Clinton is set to speak at any moment now from Nashville, Tennessee. Take a look right here live shot of the crowd gathering to hear what she has to say after the huge, sweeping win in South Carolina yesterday. Clinton cruised to an easy victory in Saturday's the South Carolina primary creaming the Vermont senator with 74 percent of the vote. And exit poll shows it was African-American voters who propelled her to victory. She got 84 percent of the black vote in South Carolina compared to just 16 percent for Sanders. In her victory speech, Clinton thanked voters and Sanders and made it clear that she was ready to expand her campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have now gone through four early states. I want to congratulate senator Sanders on running a great race and tomorrow this campaign goes national.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: That national campaign begins today in Nashville, Tennessee. Again, live shots right there whenever Hillary Clinton does emerge. Clinton will hold a rally at any moment. We will go there live and then talk about the status of the Democratic race with our political panel. Larry Sabato is the director of the center for politics of the University of Virginia and Maria Cardona, a Hillary Clinton supporter. Her firm currently does works for a pro-Clinton super PAC.
All right, good to see you. And you are also a super delegate, right?
MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I am.
WHITFIELD: You got that prestige, too.
All right. Let's move in with you, Larry. You know, Hillary Clinton, she has a lot of momentum now coming off the big win in South Carolina and then going in to super Tuesday. But she said, you know what, I'm not taking any of it for granted. She still has to earn every vote. So what does that mean in your view? How does she still try to convince people that, you know, she should be the one that gets the job?
SABATO: Yes. That's what she has to do. And that's what she has to say. But the truth is, after a very tough start in February, the Clinton campaign has gotten its groove. It is not just a big win in South Carolina. It is what is coming Tuesday. While Bernie Sanders may win a couple of contests, certainly Vermont and he has a chance in Massachusetts, Minnesota, maybe a couple of other states Hillary Clinton is going to sweep the rest. And frankly, I think that's all she wrote. Not that Sanders is dropping out. He is going to stay in and he try to get as many delegates as possible, to try to influence the platform but I really don't think there is any doubt left that Hillary Clinton will be the nominee.
WHITFIELD: And so, Maria, is the Clinton campaign feeling fairly confident even though, you know, she says that she got to earn every vote particularly after South Carolina. So is that any way an indicator of the potential outcome for the six southern states up for grabs on Super Tuesday?
CARDONA: Well, I do think they are feeling good. Obviously, whenever you win this way, it is a great feeling. But I do want to underscore that they are absolutely not taking anything for granted. She is working her heart out to appeal to every voter, to earn every vote. I think that Bernie Sanders has run a terrific campaign and has made the Democratic Party better. It has made Senator Clinton -- Secretary Clinton better. I think she has made Bernie Better. And as a Clinton supporter, I would say I don't want Bernie to drop out.
I think this is a debate and a conversation that needs to happen in the Democratic Party and the more it happens, the more enthusiasm there will be on our side. Especially when you compare it to the craziness going on the Republican side. I think people see that our two candidates are actually out there, focused on the issues, trying to bring solutions to the huge problems that America is facing right now.
[14:25:25] WHITFIELD: And it's not all smooth sailing for the Clinton campaign. Bill Clinton campaigned is very hard in South Carolina for his wife. Perhaps that's what helped propel her, you know, to that victory. The former president also had this rather testy exchange with a protester who interrupted his speech to ask about think Benghazi attack. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I heard you. Can I answer? Do you want -- are you going to let me answer? This is America. I get to answer back. You listen to me. I heard you. Wait a minute. I heard your speech. They heard your speech. You listen to me now. Do I have a right to answer? I'm not your commander in chief anymore but if I were I'd tell you to be more polite. Sit down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So Larry, the former president there inviting, you know, a continued exchange. I'm going to answer your question. But then in your view, what does this mean on the campaign trail? Does it -- is this an indicator of a prelude of other potential exchanges to come?
SABATO: Well, you never know with Bill Clinton. Look, in some countries, like the United Kingdom, it's traditional to engage with hecklers. I don't think it is really appropriate, certainly for a former president, to do that. I think he would be better off not. At least he didn't say that he would like to punch the guy in the face.
CARDONA: Exactly.
WHITFIELD: What should he have done in your view? Ignore him?
SABATO: That's what security personnel are for. They are supposed to usher these people out gently, not roughing them up but gently and you go on with your speech.
WHITFIELD: And Maria, do you think the former president handled it the best way, or is there any way this could, you know, come back on Hillary Clinton or is this a plus, you know, for her that he handled it this way? How do you see it?
CARDONA: Look. Well, I think there's no question the issue of Benghazi, especially in the general election, is going to continue to come up because Republicans won't let it go. I do think the president handled it as the best he could. I think he should have done one other thing, which is to take the heckler's address and send him a signed copy of the 11 hours of tape that Secretary Clinton had on the hill talking about Benghazi. And I think that would answer all of his questions and I think that it would underscore the reason why Bill Clinton believes, her campaign believes and the majority of America is going to believes that she is the best person to take on the role of commander in-chief.
WHITFIELD: All right. Maria Cardona, Larry Sabato, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
CARDONA: Thank you, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up next behind the scenes at a so- called desperate mission by leaders in the Republican Party to stop Donald Trump. The "New York Times" with an eye-opening report. Maggie Haberman is joining me live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:33] WHITFIELD: All right, thank you for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
The search for clarity over who supports Republican presidential frontrunner, Donald Trump is intensifying this hour. We are talking about Donald Trump and the KKK. Trump tweeting he disavows the white supremacist, David Duke.
Trump saying, quote, "As I stated at the press conference on Friday regarding David Duke, I disavow," end quote. He also posted a clip of that press conference. This comes on the heels of his interview this morning with Jake Tapper on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" where Trump dodged questions about Duke's support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to look at the group. I don't know what group you are talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I have to look.
If you would send me a list of groups I will do research on them and certainly I would disavow if I thought there was something wrong. There may be groups that are fine and it would be unfair. Give me a list of the groups and I will let you know.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": OK, I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here, but --
TRUMP: I don't know. Honestly, I don't know David Duke. I don't believe I have ever met him. I'm pretty sure I didn't meet him and I just don't know anything about him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Both Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz have criticized Trump for not denouncing the KKK. Meantime, a desperate mission is how the "New York Times" sums up the battle inside of the GOP to block Donald Trump from being the party's nominee.
"The Times" conducted interviews with party lawmakers, strategists, donors and writes in part, quote, "Should Mr. Trump clinch the presidential nomination, it would represent a route of historic proportions for the institutional Republican Party and could set off an internal rift.
Unseen in either party for a half century since white southerners abandoned the Democratic Party in mass during the civil rights movement," end quote.
Joining me right now on the phone is Maggie Haberman, CNN political analyst and "New York Times" correspondent. She wrote part of that "Times" piece, and Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, back with us.
So Maggie, let me begin with you. You even write that Carl Rove, who is a strategist for George W. Bush called a possible nomination a catastrophe. That it would doom the party and says it's not too late to stop him. How big of a concerted effort is there in the GOP to do this?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (via telephone): Well, I think as our piece says, this effort was not much of one for a long time. There's a series of missed opportunities, leadership, and indecision and paralysis among donors, operatives and candidates themselves who weren't sure how to take this man on. Thought that something would work itself out with consolidate (inaudible). He's had three in a row pretty convincing wins. What we now get is where he will be on the receiving end of the first sustained negative media in a real way we have seen in a while.
You have the pro-Rubio super PAC on air in a bunch of states, particularly in Florida with ads about Donald Trump, and that I think could be effective.
You have another group, America Future Fund on Friday began hearing ads featuring people who described themselves as victims of Trump University that they paid money and did not get what they were promised.
Those are the kinds of stories that I think are very problematic for Trump and I think he is doing what he can to get away from them including what the Chris Christie endorsement and sort of picking up smoke on other topics.
[14:35:08]But if you are just today beginning to see reaction within the GOP in a real rage to this actually happening, Mega Whitman, Hewlett-Packard CEO and former gubernatorial candidate in California herself who was a top Chris Christie supporter came out very angrily at Chris Christie for his endorse of Donald Trump on Friday --
WHITFIELD: Calling him an opportunist.
HABERMAN: -- first main stream party figure to back Trump. It gives a lot of permission for other Republicans to go his way. I think that became the moment where people started to realize this is very quickly slipping away.
WHITFIELD: And Larry, "Politico" observes the wall of resistance to Trump is crumbling citing congressional endorsements among other things. Did Christie's support legitimize Trump in any way, despite the fact that you have like Meg Whitman and others who say that Chris Christie revealed himself as an opportunist by now jumping on the Trump bandwagon?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA'S CENTER FOR POLITICS: The significance of the Chris Christie endorsement was that it enabled Trump to change the focus from a tough story for him, his performance in the debate last Thursday night to a positive story, the fact that Chris Christie came on board.
That's what mattered there. I don't think that Christie signifies that there is going to be an avalanche of Republican office holders endorsing Trump.
In fact, I am hearing quite the contrary. There are going to be many Republicans who are sharing the ballot with Trump if he is the nominee, who are not going to endorse him and who are going to run independent races.
WHITFIELD: Maggie, if the GOP is making a concerted effort to stop Donald Trump, doesn't that kind of send the message of the establishment trying to derail this person, Donald Trump and thereby helping him to win even more support?
HABERMAN: I mean, I think that we are in a bit of a phase where it is a little different at this point in terms of -- I think Trump supporters will look at it that way and they will be fired up.
But the bigger concern that Republicans have had is whether this is an excuse for Trump to leave the party and mount a third party candidacy of his own. The hour has become pretty late for him to be doing that.
The only way to do that third party candidacy, get on the line. That's the only thing I can see. I don't think -- I think Trump has -- because he's taking endorsements now from people who are, you know, figures, Chris Christie is a pretty establishment figure even if he is not an establishment figure.
I think that becomes a harder argument for Trump and that's the risk. That you diminish some of that appeal. This is always going to be a hard line to walk for Trump. Part of his appeal is really do anything and say anything candidate.
As you get more support, does that become more difficult to maintain in terms of the political system.
WHITFIELD: OK, real conflicting messages then. Larry, this morning, Donald Trump hinted at an independent run despite the fact there was a pledge signed. So, what happens if this pledge is ignored?
SABATO: Well, if Donald Trump runs as an independent, you could start saying President-Elect Hillary Clinton. If Donald Trump is the Republican nominee and some of the anti-Trump Republicans follow through on what they are saying privately.
That is they will try to get a, quote, "real Republican," main stream Republican candidate on the ballots of at least 40 states then you could also get used to saying President-Elect Hillary Clinton.
WHITFIELD: All right, Larry Sabato, Maggie Haberman, thanks so much to both of you. Appreciate it.
HABERMAN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump, says he is ready to change the country's libel laws if he becomes president. But how will that square with the first amendment? We'll discuss that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:43:01]
WHITFIELD: All right, Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump, says he is ready to change the country's libel laws if he were to become president because he wants to make it easier to sue news organizations. Trump hasn't shied away from criticizing news organizations especially those he has a problem with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The media, the most dishonest human beings on earth. I'm telling you. They are the most dishonest. These people are incompetent and bad people. I have a better vocabulary than those people. Are we in the academy awards? The "New York Times" is going out of business? It's the worst newspaper, a dead newspaper.
People don't even think about the "National Review.
The "Des Moines Register" is standing outside, too. We will open up the libel laws so when they write falsely we can sue the media and get the story corrected and get damages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, I want to bring in CNN's senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter and also with me is CNN and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson, and Dylan Byers, a CNN senior media and politics reporter. Good to see all of you.
Brian, how about you first? He said the media is bad. It's unfair, yet, it's the media that is helping him to put himself in just about everybody's living rooms.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Indeed.
WHITFIELD: Where is this going?
STELTER: There is the ultimate love-hate relationship here. You know, without television networks, websites and newspapers, Donald Trump would probably not be the frontrunner. He has used media in a masterful way in order to be more popular.
At the same time, though, he does express a lot of distaste and dislike for the media. His most recent complaint seemed to be the result of a "New York Times" story he didn't like about how Trump has relatively little influence in New York.
So there is the love-hate situation here and that's going to continue I think for a long time to come.
WHITFIELD: And then joey, if he were to be president, what does he mean he would be able to change the libel laws. Is it that simple?
[14:45:08]JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good afternoon, Fredricka. You know what, it is not that simple. I'm not sure what he means. Let's talk about why. Now clearly everyone has an interest in their reputation.
People work hard. He worked hard. As a result of that there is a first amendment, but there are limitations to the first amendment. Like what? You know already you can't yell fire in a theater, "bomb" on a plane. We get that.
However, in understanding that, we also need to understand the first amendment balances the right to free speech against the write to speak, produce and do things, which may not be actually true.
As it relates to public figures and people who are out there in the public like Donald Trump it is very hard to establish any type of defamation claims.
So the "New York Times" versus Sullivan, which is a Supreme Court case, 50 years ago, Fredricka, the standard was in order to defame a public official you have to show actual malice.
That is that you published something with knowledge it was false or reckless disregard as to it being true. So the reality is if you want to change that you have to go to the Supreme Court.
Now I suspect you could put someone on the Supreme Court that would be sensitive to the fact there maybe media overreaches, but we know presidents don't control Supreme Courts and what they do.
Finally, we also should note that defamation is governed by state law. As a result of that, people in different states sue in their state courts. What do you do? Go through the various state legislatures and ask them to amend their laws?
So it really is something when we are talking about defamation that really largely supersedes a president's authority. Presidents can do a lot of things. Can they do everything? They cannot.
STELTER: Yes, it is about first amendment. I'm glad you spelled it out, Joey. It might be bluster from Donald Trump, but because he is the presumptive nominee, we have to take it seriously I think.
WHITFIELD: Dylan, I want to ask you about that, while Joey said the White House does not supersede or control Supreme Court, but we've heard Donald Trump dance around the value of executive order. Is this a case in which he would threaten to use executive order to change, disrupt, or alter the first amendment?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: No. I think this is a case of something that Donald Trump has done many times throughout his campaign, which is make a largely empty promise that scares a lot of people and seems to set up this sort a nightmare scenario.
There's not a lot there. I reached out to the Trump campaign over the weekend. I asked, what are your specific -- what specifically would you like to do to change the laws? How would you deal with the fact that this is a matter that is handled by states and there is no federal law?
Would you institute a federal law and what specific stories or examples of libel in the media would be the sort -- what sort of news organizations would you sue and why?
WHITFIELD: Did you get specific answers?
BYERS: No, the only answer I got back from the Trump campaign spokesperson was Mr. Trump is asking for nothing but for people to tell the truth. I said no specific policy proposals, no, because there aren't any.
So much of what Trump does and so much of his rhetoric including beating up on the media is just about making sort of empty promises and going after the media.
It's red meat for his conservative base. Suggesting he there throw them in jail or take out litigation against them that helps his cause. I really don't think that there is anything going on there. Until he introduces specific policy proposals, I don't think there will be.
WHITFIELD: All right, Dylan Byers, Joey Jackson, Brian Stelter, good to see all of you. Thanks so much.
All right, coming up, in the wake of the water crisis in the city of Flint, Michigan, celebrities and activists holding a justice for Flint rally today. Our Sara Sidner is live in Flint. We will go there next.
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WHITFIELD: Newly released e-mails from the governor's office in Michigan show that officials advised the dangerous water in Flint be switched back to the original source a full year before they actually did.
Their failure to do so ended with the lead leaking in to the water and a full-blown water crisis. Governor Rick Schneider said he takes full responsibility for the mistakes made by his employees.
Joining us right now is CNN correspondent, Sara Sidner, who is in Flint, Michigan. So Sara, you have spoken to some of the residents of Flint, Michigan, and what are they saying about this?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are absolutely furious. This has lifted their level of fury another five rungs. They have looked at the some of these e-mails and what they see is that some of the top aides in the governor's office were discussing how unhealthy the water was coming from the Flint River in to their homes, in to their taps, in to their tubs.
And that they were talking about trying to fix the problem, but they didn't do anything for a full year. That sent the level of trust of government here really, really low.
There's anger because their children are testing for lead, because adults are testing for lead, but there are other things like rashes and breakouts because of some of the water.
Here's what one residents who have an 8-year-old daughter who tested positive for lead said about the crisis here.
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CHERYL FARMER, FLINT RESIDENT: I want to leave here. I don't know if I can ever trust them saying, OK, we got the dead out of the water. How can we trust them? I don't know if I can ever trust them again.
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SIDNER: One of the governor's legal counsel basically said, the Flint River water is absolutely downright scary. His mother lived here and he talked about poking a jab at the emergency manager that made the switch to the Flint River saying I could have told him and I'm sure others did that this was a problem that needed to be fixed asap so a lot of frustration here -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: It is outrageous. The Flint water crisis has caused a lot of uproar. Even tonight, celebrities, the group Blackout for Human Rights will be hosting a free event for the people of Michigan. What more do you know about this event?
SIDNER: It is been put on by Creed Director, Ryan Kugler (ph). He's been very clear. This is talking about what happened in Flint.
[14:55:07]He wants to bring that to light, shed the spotlight on what is happening here, but also raise money and give back to Flint. This is a free event.
There are 2,000 people, Flint residents, who have been given free access to a concert. (Inaudible) and also "Selma" director helped put this together and contributing to the cause.
They really want the world to see that they want to come together and help fix this, the community wants to do something, as well but see it as a state-sponsored human rights violation, frustrated with what they are seeing and those e-mails turned this up.
A lot of folks will come here, though, and this will be a concert for the people of Flint -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, Sara Sidner, thank you so much from Flint, Michigan.
The next hour of the NEWSROOM, a special guest, "Greys Anatomy" actor and human rights activist, Jessie Williams, will join me live to talk about this event and why he has chosen to be a part of it. Don't miss that.
Coming up, GOP frontrunner, Donald Trump clarifying comments he made to CNN's Jake Tapper this morning about white supremacist and the KKK. Could the issue hurt his campaign? We'll be right back after this.
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