Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Speaks at Campaign Event; Justice Thomas Asks Questions at Court Session; Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton Speak at Campaign Events. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 29, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:00:01] DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... running our country. I haven't seen anything like that before.

So we cannot have choke artists running our country. Because this guy is a choke artist. We cannot have choke artists running our country. Our country is in trouble. Our country is in trouble.

Now, Ted Cruz, on the other hand -- is Ted Cruz is smarter? You know, he's a smarter person than Rubio. But he's so strident -- I mean folks, it's not going to work OK. It's not going to work.

You know, he thinks he's good. We call him "the lying Ted". He'll tell, you know, he'll listen to me say something. He'll get up someplace else and he will say the exact opposite of what I said.

For instance, I'm very strong on the second amendment. He says, "Donald Trump is totally opposed to the second amendment" to people that have been with me know for years. I mean, you know what I've been saying.

I am and I have been from the beginning against ObamaCare. We're going to repeal it and we're going to replace it.

Ted Cruz goes on television and he goes, Donald Trump loves ObamaCare. I love ObamaCare. I've-- every single speech I say repealed by -- I think if anybody's been a lot of people come to this because we have a lot of fun.

But every single speech, I talked about repealing, replacing. And he'll just lie. So I call him lying. And it was interesting because Little Marco said the other day, he said, "You're a liar", to Ted. He wasn't referring to me. He said you're a liar. That's a lie.

So, first time I've ever heard a politician and I deal with a lot of politicians, and believe me, they are liars in many cases. There are some good ones but not too many.

But Marco said to Ted, you're a liar. And I said, you know, now that a politician says it, you have two politicians just saying it, they're screaming at each other. Then they got together and they said, oh we have to be tough. The last debate, did you see them shaking hands, behind my back

shaking hands. They high-fiving each other inside before the thing. I said, you know what, they're double-teaming.

And yet every single poll drudge, every single poll has Trump winning the debate. Pretty amazing. Right? Pretty amazing.

And most people other than you, you know, some people -- some of the pundits are totally, you know, forget it. I tell you that we're going to write a book about some of the pundits, I think.

The problem is who is going to buy a book like that because nobody cares about them.

The press is amazingly dishonest OK. The press is a real problem in this country. And one of the things that is very important to me and it only make -- no, no, I tell you what. I'm dealing with some real sleazebags up here believe me. I think the press is worse OK. I'm telling you, they're worse ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I think he means us. I think he means us. Being that we're part of the press.

That is a very opportune moment. It's not that we just jumped in on the press the. The opportune moment is the screen on your left. He's been railing on Marco Rubio, he's calling him "Little Marco" more than once and it just turns out that Marco Rubio's rally in Atlanta is about to start as well.

So I can only imagine the role that Marco Rubio has been on lately, going after Donald Trump. Getting in the mud, folks. This has changed markedly over the last week.

Marco Rubio went from being a politician that uses the same lines frequently, even sometimes during the same debate, and during the same answer, to a guy who is off the cuff going for broke using every line in the book. Some people said it sounded like they were both going for high school president in the way they've been campaigning.

But I tell you one thing, it's unbelievable television to see these two spinning the lines they're spinning. And so any moment now we're expected to hear from Marco Rubio in Atlanta.

He's at the Intercontinental Buckhead. I don't know how many people that will hold. I don't know how enthusiastic they are. I can just tell you what I've been seeing.

Just want to ask our control room if we're going to go live into Marco Rubio rally or we're just going to wait for a bit till he's a-- yeah, he's not at the stage yet.

It's hard for me to see. But I don't see well anyway. But when does hit the stage and take that microphone, I promise you, you're going to hear what he has to say. All right. So in the meantime, I want to bring in Jeff DeWit. He's the

Arizona State Treasurer. He is also a Donald Trump supporter.

Mr. DeWit thank you so much for joining me today. It's great to have you.

JEFF DEWIT, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

BANFIELD: So much to talk about. I don't even know where to begin.

Let's begin with this. Donald Trump even just said it and I think you could hear it to your right well when we were listening in live. Forty-nine percent, the recent CNN/ORC poll comes out with a resounding 49 percent of the Republican vote is going to go to Donald Trump.

If those people who are asked represent the rest of this party. If you add up all the numbers below Donald Trump, 16 percent, 15 percent, 10 percent, and 6 percent, it does not equal 49 percent.

You have to admit that is a remarkable number until you see another poll, Jeff. And that poll is a little weird. And it's worrisome if you're a Donald Trump supporter.

If he wins the nomination those supporters were asked would you definitely vote, would you probably vote? And 13 percent said they probably wouldn't and 35 percent said they definitely wouldn't.

[12:35:12] Now, if you add those numbers up, it's kind of a 52 percent for him and 48 percent against him. And that has to be worrisome to you, Jeff.

DEWIT: Well, the -- going to the first poll, that is the vindication and validation this is a movement happening in America. And I think one of the things to bring into this is when you look at the last state to vote, look at the Nevada numbers, more people in Nevada voted for Donald Trump than was the entire Republican turnout four years earlier for Mitt Romney.

So this is a new movement. So many more people are getting in the game, are getting off their couch and coming to vote. I don't think turnout is going to be a problem at all.

And especially when, you know, the primaries are always tough. The candidates beat each other up. You know, I'm an elected official, I went through a tough primary of my own a few years back. And they're always tough.

When it comes down party versus party, everybody that, you know, the wounds get licked and everybody comes out and everybody does their job. And I think we will see the highest turnout of any general election in history this coming year because that's what Donald Trump brings is huge turnout and passion for most supporters.

BANFIELD: You know what, you are right Jeff DeWit. You are right. He brings out a lot of enthusiasm. People are very excited, I know the Former Governor Jan Brewer just came out and endorsed him as well. But he is also bringing out people who are angry and frustrated about him.

Let me just quote if I can for you from Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska. He says, "I am frustrated and saddened as you are about what's happening in our country but I cannot support Donald Trump. Please understand I'm not an establishment Republican and I will never support Hillary Clinton. I'm a movement conservative who is elected over the objections of the GOP establishment. My current answer for who I would support in a hypothetical match-up between Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton is: Neither of them."

You must be concerned about people like Senator Sasse who says things like that about your candidate.

DEWIT: I'm not concerned at all and I don't think anybody with the campaign is concerned. So, you know, as you pointed out, I'm an elected official. I am not an establishment person either. I ran against two establishment candidates in my own state. And I saw with my own eyes in my race the passion, the passion amongst the conservative grassroots for me and other candidates like myself who are here to take our country back. And to make the right decisions.

Everybody is so frustrated with the direction of our country and with the $19 trillion in debt and that keeps on growing that everybody wants to do something different. And Donald Trump is the answer. He's what we've been looking for to make America great again, to quote a phrase. And to take our country back.

I guarantee you, this will be the highest turnout you will ever see in a modern election, in any election, and that is because of Donald Trump. As long as his name is on the ticket.

And as he pointed out in a speech a few minutes ago, we could win New York. Republicans can win now states that we never thought were possible to win and we haven't won in a long time. And he's going to completely rewrite the political map.

So it's wonderful what he's doing for the party. He's absolutely rebuilding the Republican Party and bringing it back. You know, as I pointed out, with bigger numbers than we saw in 2012.

BANFIELD: Jeff DeWit ...

DEWIT: The people turned up for him.

BANFIELD: ... thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. I'm only going to jump in now because Marco Rubio is taking to the stage live. We want to give equal time to these politicians.

You're seeing Republican Governor Nikki Haley of South Carolina introducing Marco Rubio at this rally in Atlanta, Georgia.

We definitely want to catch Marco Rubio, but before he jumps on that microphone I want to get a quick comment from Margaret Hoover and John Avlon our political commentators.

This comment about New York that Donald Trump could win New York. Margaret Hoover, we just had Errol Louis here who said, look his

network New York funded a poll with the New Yorkers in the city and that was closer to 86 percent Hillary Clinton, 14 percent Donald Trump. You can't ignore that.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, there's no way -- I mean just take of national polls, real clear politics, poll of polls all of them, by at least two percent Hillary Clinton beats Donald Trump. But not today.

If you want a Republican to match up against Donald Trump the real clear politics average has Marco Rubio beating him.

But these notions, this is totally untethered to reality that Donald Trump is going to remake the political map in favor of a Republican future that will go on into the 21st is totally devoid of the facts.

Divorced from the changing demographics in this country, divorced from the reality of what not just mainstream Republicans think or tea party Republicans think. But the frankly majority of Republicans who still have not consolidated behind one candidate.

So, you know, Donald Trump is on a high right now but none of the polling takes into account the last 72 hours which has been a change tactic, not just from Marco Rubio but on behalf of all the outside money, the GOP establishment, the entire sport of anti-Trump forces are only now beginning to focus on Donald Trump.

BANFIELD: Can I just tell you a bit that the Republican Governor Nikki Haley just said in introducing Marco Rubio. I'm not so sure she's introducing him. I think she's actually speaking for him. She said that he lost his voice.

[12:40:16] This is something that happens on a campaign all the time. If you knew how grueling, exhausting, and horrifying this is on your larynx.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This happened to Bill Clinton in 1992. You know, he lost his voice in the closing days of that campaign and it can happen.

And Rubio has really been hitting his stride trying to be a happy warrior and really fling a lot of insults at Donald Trump and yet you heard that Donald earlier kind of responding to them.

What significant about when a candidate like Rubio gets in the mud, it's important that he punch back. And there's been a lack of that which has enable Donald Trump thrice. But, you know, it's like wrestling a pig. You know, the pig enjoys it, you get dirty. And that's the danger of strategy like Marco Rubio is going to play.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you the difference between getting down in the mud and then sinking down to the level that so many people have accused of Donald Trump of being at?

This isn't just about doing, you know, insults and lots of thing. This is using language that's uncomfortable for some people.

Some people can't describe some of this language to their children at the dinner table and this is daytime television.

Is there a difference between mud slinging in a traditional campaign and this stuff that I see on wrestle mania?

AVLON: Yeah. I mean I think it's a matter of innuendo and a wrestling approach to politics that's all about playing the villain. And, you know, attacking the other guy in terms that are crass and crude and not simply, you know, the old time politics of suggestion and innuendo which is as old as time itself. But this is about being crude and trying to appeal to the ugliest aspects of our democracy. And that's what Donald Trump perfected. He's dragged down the entire debate as a result.

BANFIELD: So Hillary Rodham Clinton is also speaking. I swear I'm playing hopscotch and gymnastics, mental gymnastics and graphic gymnastics on television, too.

This is the live shot that we're waiting where you can see the banner on the left-hand side of the screen fighting for us. That's one of our slogan.

And so a quick break and when we come back we're expecting for Hillary Rodham Clinton to be jumping up.

I'm guessing that balcony where that fellow is up there, it's so nicely drape in the American bunting. I love American bunting. I have it all around my house. I love it.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:46:39] BANFIELD: Let's move on. All right, so we are watching two live locations rights now. If you're just joining us, wow, it's been an hour of a nonstop politics, folks. The hour opened up with Donald Trump flinging the insults at who he calls as little Marco.

Now, little Marco, if that's what he calls him, is on the right-hand side of your screen. And he's got Nikki Haley who is a big deal. A Republican governor, introducing him at a rally where his voice is faltering and I think she's helping him out right now. But the minute he takes to the mike, if he's going to do that, there was some suggestion he might even though his voice is faltering.

We're going to jump in there with you. On the left-hand side of your screen is Boston where Hillary Rodham Clinton is at the Old South Meeting House and expected to be speaking shortly as well on the heels of sweet numbers that have just come out from a CNN/ORC polls which show that she's the Democrat's choice for nominee by a margin of 55 to 38 over Bernie Sanders.

So she's got to be happy about that. How she frames that to her supporters at that Old South Meeting House in Boston. You will find out shortly. But something else happened today. And this show is called Legal View and we couldn't be more thrilled when we get a headline like this.

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has made a huge headline because for the first time in more than 10 years he spoke from the bench. More than spoke, he actually murmured something a couple of years ago. But he actually asked questions. Until today, this reading at Justice Antonin Scalia's funeral was the first time that the public has heard his deep and resonant voice, really an earnest in a very, very long time.

I want to bring in CNN's Senior Legal Analyst, Jeffrey Toobin to talk about the significance of this.

It not only came as a surprise Jeff Toobin, can you hear me OK?

JEFF TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I can.

BANFIELD: Jeff, this not only came as a surprise to all of us, this wasn't just a little question or a comment. This was a series of questions. And it comes on the heels of a big void. You know, he was seated to the side of Antonin Scalia for so long and Antonin Scalia filled that void with so many questions. People wondered if this would make the difference. When Antonin Scalia goes, will Clarence Thomas fill that in, do you think that what's happened?

TOOBIN: Well, certainly the timing does appear to confirm that it has something to do with Justice Scalia's absence. It is very surprising that he asked questions. The case was not a particularly earth shaking case. It involved whether people convicted of domestic violence could have weapons taken away from them in limited circumstances.

The kind of questions he asked were exactly the kind of questions the other justices ask all the time. So there was nothing extraordinary about the questions themselves except for who asked them. And, you know, 10 years is a very long time not to ask questions.

And the fact that he just started asking them at this point does seem related to Justice Scalia's death.

BANFIELD: Jeff, there have been a number of reasons that Clarence Thomas has either jokingly given over the years for his reticence to speak from the bench. And they've made perfect sense. He has said, we got a lifetime to go back in chambers and argue with each other. He's also said the lawyers only have 30 minutes to present their side of the case and they should argue. That's part of the process. And then he's also added that he doesn't like to badger people.

[12:50:10] Did you take those to mean that he would always be that way or did you take those to be, back off, I have my reasons?

TOOBIN: Well, I think he's also given other reasons that he is uncomfortable with public speaking. Haven't spoken a language called Gullah as a child, I mean he's given many different reasons for why he doesn't ask questions. I always thought he would ask questions again just because I thought it would be very frustrating to sit there day after day, year after year, and not ask questions when all of your colleagues is asking questions.

Also, you know, it's come to define his tenure as a Supreme Court justice and that's really unfair to him. He's been a significant conservative voice on the court. Some of his opinions have launched conservative ideas that have later become majority opinions.

So it's not that his silence on the bench is the most significant thing about him. But it is true that if you ask members of the public about his tenure what almost everyone says is that he doesn't ask questions. So I think it's good that he got this monkey off his back and started to be evaluated like the rest of them.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you just some strategic questions about the change and how things work. The seat that Justice Scalia occupied for so long is currently draped in black and I think that's the tradition for 30 days. You wrote the book called The Nine so you know a whole lot more about this than I do.

TOOBIN: Right, 30 days.

BANFIELD: But they -- so after 30 days, the justices actually physically shift, don't they? They physically take a new position to reflect their seniority. But does it make any difference whatsoever?

TOOBIN: They do. The chief justices always in the middle seat, but then the senior most justice, associate justice, longest tenured is to the right of the chief justice. That had been Justice Scalia. It will now be Anthony Kennedy. The second most senior justice is to the chief justice's left, and that will be Clarence Thomas. Then they go back to the other side.

So every justice will switch seats except for the chief because the senior associate justice left. And it really is very disconcerting to those of us who follow the court and watch the oral arguments you're used to seeing the justices in certain places.

And often many years go by without a retirement or a departure from the court. So it will be quite startling when I go in the court for the first time, I'm going to go on Wednesday, that's a big abortion rights case, and to see the vacancy where Justice Scalia has been for so many years and then soon thereafter everybody in a new seat.

BANFIELD: And then soon thereafter possibly, I don't know how soon, someone else.

OK, Jeff, thank you for that. We still have a lot of reporting. One of my greatest frustrations and I know Jeff agrees with me is Jeff gets to go in and sit and watch that. But you at home only get to see that photograph, that photograph that photo-op because there's no cameras at the Supreme Court. Very frustrating, I'm a big advocate for it. I know there are reasons against by Thomas, let me still talk and I'm done. Marco Rubio is speaking now. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Marco, Marco, Marco ...

MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.

CROWD: Marco, Marco, Marco ...

RUBIO: Thank you. That was something else, whoa. I have a little bit of my voice back. I got my voice back just a little bit.

If you ever need to be pumped up, if you ever need to be lifted up, you call Nikki Haley and she'll gets you going unreal. Well, she covered a lot. And so I just want to right to the point with you.

First I want to thank the governor of South Carolina for being with us today. She is a phenomenal leader.

If you want to know what the Republican Party should be about, if you want to know what the Conservative movement should be about, if you want to know what the party of Lincoln and Reagan should always be about, you should look at Nikki Haley. That is what our party is about.

And that's an important question for us right now. It's an important question for us as Conservatives, as Republican, and as Americans. You have a choice to make tomorrow. And you have a choice to make in November. In November you will get to choose what kind of country America is going to be in the 21th century.

Tomorrow you're going the get to choose what kind of party are we going to be in the 21st century.

In the process of politics and of government and of leadership, there are two ways to motivate people. History teaches us that.

[12:55:03] One way is to appeal to anger and fear. To go to the darkest parts of people's lives and convince them that they not only have a right to be angry but they have a right to be fearful and it is time to go out there and blame it on someone else, that's it's go out there and take the attack on someone else. It's a powerful motivator.

And I want you to know lessons of history. There has never been a great movement in human history that has been led by anger and by fear. Never.

There have been movements that have taken power through anger and fear. There have been movements sort of motivated people to anger and fear. But there has never been a great cause in the history of all mankind led by anger and by fear.

In fact, history teaches us that any movement who at its core is motivated by anger and by fear, by appealing to your anger, to your fear, to your worries as a movement that is destined not just to fail but to do great harm.

History also teaches us that the great movements in human history, whether they're spiritual movements or political movements, are led by hope and dreams are led by the belief that things can be better. That doesn't mean you ignore your problems. For you do not have to be oblivious to our challenges to be optimistic about your opportunities. You do not have to ignore people's frustrations in order to understand their dreams.

And we have to choose tomorrow. And we have to choose in this election, what will it mean to be a Conservative in the 21st century? And what will it mean to be a Republican? Are we going to be the party that did what Reagan did 36 years ago, that says to people, yes, times are difficult. Yes, the world is bad. Yes, there are things going wrong in your life. But if we do what needs to be done it can be morning in America again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, I'm going to skip out of Atlanta for a moment if I can. I want to take you to Boston where Hillary Clinton is just taken live to the mike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, America never stopped being great. We need to make America whole again.

And way we will do that is to break down all the barriers, the barriers that stand in the way of America living up to its potential and every single American living up to his or hers. That's what my campaign is about.

You know, when I came to college here at Wellesley College back in the day, I fell in love with Wellesley and I fell in love with Boston.

And when I left you for a little while to go to law school somewhere else, and when I graduated and I joined the children's defense fund, back I came.

And I had the most extraordinary experience because, for me, knocking down barriers that stand in the way of our youngest citizens has to be our first and highest priority.

So when I went to New Bedford, Massachusetts, I see my friend Mark Pacheco there, I was looking for kids who weren't in school because they had disabilities.

Remember, back then there was no law which said, you had to educate a child with disabilities. And so when you knocked on doors like I did and like hundreds and hundreds of people like me across America were doing, we were trying to gather the evidence to present to the congress to say, this isn't right in America. And I met children. I'll never forget being on the back small porch under a grape harbor in a little house in New Bedford with a girl, a teenage girl in a wheelchair. She wanted more than anything to go to school. But in those days there was no accommodation for her.

And thanks to the work we did right here in Massachusetts, that changed and the United States became the first country in the world to say, every child deserves an education and children with disabilities are no exception.

And then when I became a young lawyer working again for the children's defense fund I went to South Carolina, again to gather information and evidence, to bring a lawsuit against that state because they were housing juveniles with adults in adult prisons. And we were successful, but it should never have happened in the first place.

[13:00:09] And then I went to Alabama. I went undercover that time.