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Interview with Economist Ben Stein; MH-370 Flight Debris Found Off Africa?; Clinton Wins Big on Super Tuesday But Bernie Sanders Moves On; Donald's Small Hands; Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 02, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:02] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And says he's the one to get the economy moving something Trump says the Obama administration has harmed by making bad deals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our nation is in serious trouble. We're being killed on trade, absolutely destroyed. China is just taking advantage of us. I have nothing against China. I have great respect for China. But their leaders are too smart for our leaders. Our leaders don't have a clue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ben Stein is an economist and a former speechwriter for Richard Nixon.

Hi, Ben.

He's working with the Nixon Presidential Library to celebrate Nixon's historic 1972 trip to China, a trip that normalized relations with that communist country.

Ben, welcome. I'm glad you're here.

BEN STEIN, ECONOMIST: Honored to be here. Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: You know, it's rather ironic that you're celebrating relations between the U.S. and China and the GOP frontrunner says China is killing America.

STEIN: No --

COSTELLO: Is it killing our economy?

STEIN: No, he's completely wrong. China is doing us a great favor by selling us high quality goods at low prices and starting a trade war is exactly the wrong thing to do. There's no such thing as a winner in a trade war. And for Mr. Trump to be saying he's going to start one is just plain foolish. It doesn't make any sense at all. He's not going to get U.S. jobs back. He's just going to make U.S. good more -- U.S. goods will not be able to be exported to China. Chinese made goods will be more expensive in America. Trade wars don't work.

COSTELLO: But he says China is devaluing our currency and that's harming our monetary system and our economy. Is it?

STEIN: Well, that's just not true. I mean, he can say he can flap his wings and fly. He can say anything. But China is devaluing their own currency in order to export more to the U.S. In some ways that's not playing by the rules, but it just means that Chinese goods get ever cheaper in the U.S. market. And while not many Americans are competing with Chinese for jobs, every American benefits for being able to buy Chinese good at a bargain price. And then we are really blessed by them because they sell us their good quality goods at a bargain price. Then they take -- they trade surplus and invest in U.S. treasury and bonds.

COSTELLO: Yes, but --

STEIN: So we really win every way you look at it.

COSTELLO: But here's the thing. "The New York Times" is reporting that trade with China has cost Americans far more jobs than anticipated. And by that they mean manufacturing jobs which have dried up over the course of 10 or 20 years.

STEIN: Well, this is a very -- almost very impossible statistic to arrive at in any meaningful way. But it was inevitable that in a free trade world, the U.S. is a high wage manufacturing country. It's going to lose some jobs. And it's very unfortunate for those people. I'm 100 percent in favor of the government paying for retraining those people, make them all into lawyers and psychiatrists. But it is not -- it just is not true that China is hurting us in any kind of meaningful way, and it's not true we're going to get jobs back by talking tough to them.

China is a proud, powerful country. We can't talk down to them. We can't condescend to them. They are a very big power and, as I say, they are doing us a favor.

COSTELLO: Do you know what Donald Trump would say to you if he were listening? He would say, Ben Stein?

STEIN: He'll probably say -- yes, what would he say? What would he say?

COSTELLO: No, I leave that to you. What would he say?

STEIN: He would probably say you're not a billionaire like I am so you don't know anything. But the fact is, I know -- I know a billionaire named Warren Buffett who's a great -- richer than Donald Trump, a great, great, great deal richer, and he thinks free trade is a great thing. And most people who know anything about economics agree that free trade is a good thing. And again, bad for individual workers and that's a serious matter. They should be retrained to get into different occupation where they won't be competing with Chinese workers.

But, generally speaking, trade with China is a very big thing for the U.S. Plus, let's remember, it has lifted about 600 million Chinese out of dire poverty and they are fellow human beings just like us. It's good to see them lifted out of poverty.

COSTELLO: I'm thinking that out-of-work Americans probably aren't feeling much sympathy right now.

STEIN: Well, you know --

COSTELLO: And not because they don't care, but because they're hurting, too.

STEIN: Very few of them are out of work because China. There is the ability to link U.S. joblessness with Chinese manufacturing prowess. It's extremely modest. It really cannot be done in any kind of meaningful way. We're doing well to be having free trade with China.

COSTELLO: You know, I just wondered, who are you supporting this time around? Obviously it's not Donald Trump. But who is it?

STEIN: Well, I don't know. I went to law school with the Clintons so I've always had a kind of fondness for her. She was always a very nice young woman and we're all young in those days, and -- so I kind of like her. I admire the fact that Bernie Sanders has a single-payer national health plan. When I worked for Mr. Nixon as a speechwriter, I wrote the message that sent up Mr. Nixon's proposal for single-payer health plan.

But I would like to see -- being a Republican, I've never voted for a Democrat, but Mr. Trump I think is dangerously misinformed. I like him but he's dangerously misinformed.

[10:35:05] COSTELLO: What about the other candidates? Marco Rubio? Ted --

STEIN: I love Marco Rubio but I think he's really hanging in Albatross around Mr. Trump neck. He does deserve to be there. Mr. Trump definitely did disavow the Ku Klux Klan. And to say otherwise is simply not true. I like Ted Cruz very much. I don't think he knows very much about economics but I like him very, very much. I would like to -- if I can just snap my finger at anyone that would be Marco Rubio but I think he's been a little bit disingenuous lately.

COSTELLO: Speaking about disingenuousness, I wanted to ask you about Chris Christie because a lot of Republicans think he just sold out and got behind Donald Trump so maybe he can get a Cabinet position. There is a picture of Chris Christie that's gone viral from last night. He's standing behind Donald Trump and he has this terrible look on his face and people, of course, are reading all sorts of things into that. Do you read anything into Chris Christie's face?

STEIN: No, I don't. Chris Christie is a -- was and is a very, very capable governor, a very intelligent guy, extremely competent lawyer. I think he made a mistake getting on the Trump bandwagon and I just hope that bandwagon does not drag the whole party out to sea and sink us like the Goldwater bandwagon did when I was a young man. I don't want to see that happen again to the Republican Party but I'm afraid that's what's coming down the road.

COSTELLO: Ben Stein, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it.

STEIN: My great pleasure. Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, we're following breaking news on the African coast where a piece of debris has been found. Could it be from that missing Malaysia Airlines flight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:03] COSTELLO: A bit of breaking news in the search for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. A piece of debris likely belonging to that missing plane has been found off the coast of Mozambique. This debris is from a Boeing 777. An aviation source telling us there is no other record of this type of plane missing. That particular part except for Flight 370.

Remember, last year, the first confirmed debris from the missing flight was found on Reunion island.

CNN's Richard Quest is with me now. Of course he's written a book about the flight called "The Banishing of Flight MH-370."

Welcome, Richard. So the significance of this is find?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: The significance is it confirms much of what we've already known. If you look at the map again, this piece, which is believed to be from the horizontal stabilizer, it's exactly on the opposite side of the Indian Ocean from Australia. And look where the first piece, the flaperon was found, and then you just go around Madagascar to the eastern coast of Africa.

And what is very interesting is this is what the experts -- the oceanographers always said. This is where you were going to find. If you didn't find it immediately after the plane went missing in 2014, over the two years, it has drifted. But we don't know where this piece came ashore. It might have come ashore months ago and only just been discovered. That's the unknown here.

COSTELLO: Because you know what my next question is. Does this make it easier for them to find this plane and all of the people who went down with this plane?

QUEST: I'm sorry to say, but no. They will be able to reverse drift it and it will take them roughly back to the area where this happened off Australia. But it won't tell them any more than the flaperon tells them. It won't tell them what happened at 19 minutes past 1:00 on the 8th of March 2014. Nor will it tell them really how the plane went into the water. Did it dive in?

It's unlikely to tell them this far gone but they will be forensically dissecting it to make sure that they see everything. And interestingly, what we have to hope here is that there isn't anything like the fiasco that we saw with the flaperon where first you have Malaysia saying it's confirmed, then you have the French saying, high probability than the Spanish on holiday. So nobody can get to it. One hopes that this is the flaperon that was found off Reunion. This time let's hope they quickly, definitively, decisively determine it is or isn't from the plane.

COSTELLO: That would be different.

Richard Quest, thanks so much.

COSTELLO: And don't forget to watch CNN this Friday night, a special on the missing Malaysian Flight 370 airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Bernie Sanders takes on his favorite target in his victory speech, billionaires, calling out Donald Trump as he promises a political revolution.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:47:54] COSTELLO: Super Tuesday may have been Hillary Clinton's night but Bernie Sanders isn't ready to give up the fight, even taking on the Republican frontrunner in his Vermont victory speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When we bring our people together, what we do not allow the Donald Trumps of the world to divide us up.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: When we bring our people together and when we have the courage to stand up to the billionaire class and tell them they can't have it all.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: While Sanders believes billionaires may be holding the country back it may be African-American voters who block his race to the White House. Sanders was absolutely trounced by Clinton in southern states where she took at least 80 percent of the African- American from Texas all the way up to Virginia.

So let's talk about this and more. I'm joined by CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston and CNN political commentator and Morehouse College professor Marc Lamont Hill.

Welcome to both of you. Welcome Marks.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: So I will call you by your last names. I'll start with you, Preston. Can Bernie Sanders win the nomination? Is there any way possible for that to happen?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: You know, Carol, it's certainly very difficult, but just like there's a path on the Republican side to try to stop Donald Trump even though he has the wind behind his back, there is a path on the Democratic side for Bernie Sanders. A couple of things we need to keep in mind. One is the way the Democratic process is set up is that Hillary Clinton will not officially clinch the nomination until late May into -- excuse me, late May, perhaps sometime in April.

Also, what if something were to happen to Hillary Clinton. There's obviously a lot of talk about the investigation into her e-mails and what have you. And if Bernie Sanders were to get out now, would that preclude him from potentially being picked as the nominee if she had to leave the race?

So in many ways it's smart for Bernie Sanders to stay in the race right now. The big pressure on Bernie Sanders, though, is to not make it personal about Hillary Clinton and just continue to talk about the issues.

[10:50:03] COSTELLO: Well, Marc Lamont Hill, some Democrats say they're glad Bernie Sanders is staying in the race because, you know, it makes Hillary Clinton lean more left, number one, and it gives her something to fight for.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I mean, Hillary Clinton needs a good battle-tested primary. That's always been the argument. And I think that's still the case. But this is about getting issues on the table for Bernie Sanders. I think at this point Bernie Sanders knows it's an uphill climb but he still believes that if you vote for him, he can absolutely win. And that's true. I don't think we should kind of constraint our imagination and assume that Hillary Clinton has to be the winner.

But this is about calling out Wall Street. This is about forcing people to re-imagine the education system, re-imagine criminal justice, and any kind of battle between Hillary and Bernie makes that happen. Unlike the Republican side where it's become deeply personal, the Democratic side is still largely issue-base and I do think that that is an incredibly important dialogue to have.

COSTELLO: Although Hillary Clinton supporters have moved on to the general election already, they already say, you know, it's going to be -- it's going to be, you know, Trump versus Clinton. Earlier on "NEW DAY," the former secretary of state, Madeleine Albright, appeared. She's a Clinton supporter. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that Hillary will have the turnout when she's the nominee. The Democrats will be energized in order to make sure that we have as commander-in- chief and president somebody who actually knows what she is doing, who is ready on day one and, believe me, the international situation is going to get even more complicated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: All right. And she's talking about the enthusiasm factor, Mark Preston, because Bernie Sanders supporters, even though he's losing they're much more enthusiastic about him than Hillary Clinton supporters are about her.

PRESTON: Certainly when it comes to younger voters, absolutely we're seeing that. Here is the problem for Democrats. If you were to look at our most recent CNN/ORC poll, it showed the Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders would both defeat Donald Trump in a general election match-up. The problem with that is that we are in the month of March right now. We are not in the month of November.

We've also seen Donald Trump being able to rally an incredible amount of support to his candidacy, even though his detractors will say, well, 65 percent of Republicans aren't backing him. However, when we get to November 65 percent of Republicans are probably going to back him. So what Democrats have to be very careful about is to not take Trump support for granted because there is something within his message as some people find it as vulgar as it is in many ways. There is something there that is connecting with voters and there is a strain of anger right now in the American electorate that wants to see some change here in Washington, Carol.

COSTELLO: And, you know, Marc Lamont Hill, when Hillary is giving her victory speech last night, she talked about, you know, love and kindness. And there are some that are not so sure that that's like the right language to use if you're going to beat a Donald Trump.

HILL: Well, I think right now she wants to look presidential. She wants to look above the fray. The Democrats are talking about who has the biggest hands in such and as a result she doesn't want to be involved in this. She wants to look like she's bigger than all of this. It's a very presidential turn she is attempting to make which is to some extent, it's also ignoring Bernie Sanders' candidacy but it's also trying to move her into general election mode.

I think when it comes down to head-to-head, Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump, you'll see the gloves come off. The Clintons are no strangers to bare knuckle politics. They're willing to do that. But again let's not presume that Hillary has to win. Anything can happen. There's a lot of field in front of us. Bernie Sanders still has a chance. We don't want to buy into the inevitably narrative. If Marco Rubio can go on and think he can be president, certainly Bernie Sanders can be.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Fair enough. Marc Lamont Hill, Mark Preston, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, look at my hands. Talking about our hands. Donald Trump turns a small insult into a big spectacle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:57:55] COSTELLO: So when did the Republican race for the White House gets so nasty? We can't quite put our finger on it but it may be when one candidate accused the other of having tiny hands.

Here's more from CNN's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You've got to hand it to Donald Trump. He sure used his hands a lot.

TRUMP: He said bend like a pretzel. They are such liars. The worst.

MOOS: But these magnificently expressive hands are what rival Marco Rubio had the nerve to call small.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And you know what they say about man with small hands. You can't trust them.

MOOS: Well, trust Trump to pick up the gauntlet.

TRUMP: I've always had people say, Donald, you have the most beautiful hands.

MOOS (on camera): We tried to maintain a hands-off attitude about this story but when the Donald jumped in, so did we.

TRUMP: He said I have small hands. They are not small, are they? I've never heard -- I've never heard that one before.

MOOS (voice-over): Oh, yes, he did, says the editor of "Vanity Fair," who once described Trump as a short fingered Vulgarian.

JOHN OLIVER, HOST, "LAST WEEK TONIGHT": And ever since the editor Graydon Carter says he receives envelopes from Trump always with a photo on which he circles his hand to highlight the length of his fingers. Usually with a note reading, "See? Not so short."

MOOS: Actually quite short, the editor wrote back to Trump. Others have piled on. A Web site called shortfingers.com post what seem to be real and Photoshopped photos emphasizing Trump's hands.

The New Republic said his tiny fingers resembled cocktail weenies while the Web site Gawkers suggested Trump endorser Chris Christie's hands are even smaller than the Donald.

One commenter suggested Russian leader Vladimir Putin also has short fingers, as if all tough guys have a small hand complex to make up for. Bur Trump supporters are more interested in shape than size. Specifically the V for victory. And maybe your hands might seem smaller if they got this much exercise.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" starts now.