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Can Trump Be Stopped;? Interview With Wisconsin Senator Tammy Baldwin; Is Ben Carson Dropping Out? Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired March 02, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:02]
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let me begin with you.
Dr. Carson, what's the scoop?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like he is not going to continue in this race.
That's the word that we got this morning. Dr. Ben Carson released a statement to his supporters, essentially saying that, laying out that he doesn't see a pathway forward.
I can read you here what he had to say. He said: "I do not see a political path forward, in light of last evening Super Tuesday primary results. I appreciate the support, financial and otherwise, from all corners of America. Gratefully, my campaign decisions are not constrained by finances, rather by what is in the best interests of the American people."
He will talk more about this apparently on Friday at this conservative gathering here in Washington, D.C., but this comes, really, after he has seen what was once a promising political career, if you think back to October of 2015. He was leading Donald Trump in some of these polls, had a head of steam in Iowa.
And then his campaign really faced a lot of scrutiny, primarily around his biography, a lot of the reporting that we did questioning his origin story about that tough background and upbringing he had in Detroit. And then his campaign was always in turmoil. Even in these last days, in talking to people surrounding this campaign, there was kind of a disagreement about what he should do.
He was very much hopeful that the Lord would answer his prayers and that he could continue in this race. He was looking at the CNN poll that we released recently that had him at 10 percent and something of a growth in polls. And he saw that again as an answer to his prayers. But then other people were saying, listen, March 1 would be D-Day.
I understand that this morning they had a meeting in Baltimore, where it was finally decided that he would no longer continue in this campaign.
B. BALDWIN: OK. OK. So that is the Dr. Ben Carson news.
Let me bring in both David Chalian -- he here is.
I needed you David Chalian. There we are the four-box. Now I'm happy. I feel complete.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: There you go.
B. BALDWIN: David Chalian and Dana Bash.
Chalian, to you on this Mitt Romney speech tomorrow. I understand we are getting a little bit more information. We know he's not throwing his hat in the ring. We know it's not an endorsement, so what is it?
CHALIAN: Listen, I think -- if you have spoken to people who are close to Romney over the last several months, you have heard that he has a desire the play some sort of role here as sort of the adult supervision in this chaotic Republican field.
And so I think you are going to hear someone who clearly has been tweeting and talking about his opposition to Donald Trump, asking for his tax returns, all -- as you were saying.
But he now wants to make clear that the Trump refusal to denounce the KKK on Jake's show on Sunday really got under his skin. And I think he wants -- according to Jim Acosta's new reporting that just came in, I think he clearly wants to prop up Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, John Kasich as sort of counterexamples to the way, the direction the party should move in.
Again, he's not looking to jump in this race; he's not looking to formally make an endorsement. But I think he is looking to help guide the party as sort of elder statesman.
B. BALDWIN: But if he is guiding the party, and, Dana, here's my question on David Chalian's point about particularly speaking out against Donald Trump -- isn't there a possibility that that would backfire?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
B. BALDWIN: Yes, right?
BASH: Of course, a huge possibility.
I have been speaking to a lot of so-called establishment Republicans, people who are apoplectic about Donald Trump being their party's nominee, who in one breath say that, in the next breath say, I'm not sure there is anything we can do, whether it has been having a private discussion that I have had with them having a Mitt Romney. Pick your former nominee, a John McCain, a former president, George W. Bush, some kind of, as David said, party elder coming out and saying, hey, guys, wake up.
But the reason -- one of the reasons why there has been a lot of kind of pooh-poohing that idea is exactly your point, Brooke. The people who don't want anybody expect Donald Trump, his core supporters, and even those he's bringing into the fold, they think Mitt Romney is the problem. And they don't want -- and people like Mitt Romney -- and they are not going to listen.
But I think it's pretty clear the goal of Mitt Romney tomorrow is to bring together all the people who are not in that camp, who are the more traditional Republicans to say, let's get to it, guys.
B. BALDWIN: Yes, yes, yes. And given all the points you are making, David, you made an excellent point earlier today, in that the headline today would be, given the seven-state win from Donald Trump last night, headline, front-runner coalescing behind this one candidate, but, instead, it's, you know, the Republican Party vs. Trump still.
CHALIAN: Yes.
And, listen, this is Donald Trump's next hurdle, next battle. First, he had the hurdle of proving that it wasn't just a popularity contest in the polls, but that he could get voters. Check that off the list. He has proven that. Voters are coming out. Then it was that when others would fall out of the field and the field narrows, that somehow that would hurt him.
[15:05:10]
No, that's not the case. He's been emboldened by that. He can win some of their votes.
His new hurdle now is to take the establishment elite leadership world of the Republican Party and somehow get them on board with the notion that he is going to be the nominee. And if it were any other person in any other year and all the data were exactly the same and we were at this point on the morning after -- there would be a unity press conference.
BASH: Absolutely. Yes.
CHALIAN: Every party member would be up there, balloons would be falling, and they would be onto the general election.
B. BALDWIN: No balloons yet, David Chalian.
HENDERSON: Yes.
And you saw him last night, Donald Trump, at his press conference, no balloons falling there either, where he called him a unifier, he called himself diplomatic at one point. You can tell that he is trying to signal to the establishment and to voters who think he might concerned that he would remain being a divisive figure that he wants to take the reins of the party.
B. BALDWIN: Thank you for getting me there. Here's some sound from Mr. Trump just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to get along great with Congress, OK? Paul Ryan, I don't know him well, but I'm sure I am going to get along
great with him. And if I don't, he is going to have to pay a big price, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
B. BALDWIN: We're going to talk about Chris Christie's face in an entirely separate segment, OK, so let's not even go there. I know what you're thinking.
On that, I think what really stood out to me, Nia, is when Trump said Paul Ryan would pay a price if he didn't support him.
HENDERSON: Yes, it's sort of old Trump and new Trump right there.
On the one hand, I will get along with everybody. But if they don't get along with me, then too bad, so sad for them. They are going to pay a price. It's two, three, four, five different versions of Donald Trump.
And in some ways, that's why he is so appealing to so many different types of people and so hard to beat.
BASH: But I also think it was Trump trying to kind of pull off what his goal clearly was during last night's press conference, which is what he said at the beginning. I'm unifier. Look at me. It's a press conference. It's not a rally. I am presidential. I have a member of the establishment standing behind me.
But he can't help himself because he is who he is. And who can blame him? He had a lot of success with that.
B. BALDWIN: What about -- Chalian, just being semi-superficial, the look of the whole thing, all the flags? What did you think?
CHALIAN: I thought, hey, this is somebody who has looked at White House optics and knows how to put an event together that looks like a presidential-style event.
BASH: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
CHALIAN: Listen, I will give the Trump campaign a ton of credit on this kind of -- on their optics. I think they have held events that are just really, really expertly put-together, whether it's at the airplane hangars with the big Trump plane behind them, how they build crowds.
I think the optics of campaigning in addition to all the victories they have been able to bank have been really, really well done.
BASH: And let me just add, Brooke, it is not superficial. It is stagecraft. Perception is reality in life, but especially in politics. And ever since Ronald Reagan, the late great Michael Deaver, who began kind of doing that for Ronald Reagan, that has been a key, key, key part of political campaigning.
And he has never been a politician, but he sure is a good marketer. And it's the perfect combination.
B. BALDWIN: Oh, you all are good.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: I think the others in the race can learn from them.
Remember, in 2008, the candidate that won marketer of the year from "Ad Age" was Barack Obama. There is a reason why marketing and presentation is so important to presidential politics.
BASH: Exactly.
B. BALDWIN: OK. Nia-Malika Henderson, David Chalian, Dana Bash, you are all excellent, as always. Thank you very much.
HENDERSON: Thanks, Brooke.
B. BALDWIN: And just like her Republican counterpart, Hillary Clinton is riding high from her big Super Tuesday wins. But the nomination, it is far from locked in.
Clinton did win big across the South last night, taking seven states total. Sanders won four states, adding to his delegate count and keeping him in the game for now.
CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar and my dear friend is with me now.
Hello.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello there.
B. BALDWIN: So, with Sanders, he has got money. He says he's hanging in there until July. Do you think he will? What's in it for him? Why do that?
KEILAR: His aides swear that he is in it. But the truth is this. And I think this is really tough for Bernie Sanders supporters to hear because they are so fervently in his corner. He is all but done in this.
You look at the math. Right? So, he is 190 delegates ahead -- or -- sorry -- she is. When you add those superdelegates, those pledged delegates, it's more than 600.
(CROSSTALK)
But let's delegates, schmelegates this. Let's say that you are playing a football game. You into halftime and you are 35 points behind. It's possible that you could make that up, right?
B. BALDWIN: Sure. KEILAR: But you have to be a completely different team in the second
half if you are going to do that. And chances are you are going to lose the game. That's basically it.
And it's not even as easy to come back in politics as it is in, say, football or some other sport. This is really rough for Bernie Sanders, but you listen to his aides and they say, no, he is in this.
[15:10:05]
And if she hasn't hit that threshold of more than 2,000-some-odd delegates that she needs to by the time she hits the convention, he feels like he has a really good rationale to stay in. What does that look like? We don't know.
I think at this point, they are sort of looking at that and they don't really want to make that decision until they get to some of these other contests into March 15.
B. BALDWIN: OK. We will keep how the football team that is Bernie Sanders does.
Clinton keeps talking about the need for kindness. She slams Trump by saying -- quote -- "America never stopped being great." Is this foreshadowing to general election?
KEILAR: Completely.
This is what she unveiled this right after South Carolina, all of this talk about love and kindness that I think really stood out to a lot of people. Love and kindness is like the new hope and change. OK, this is her hope and change, right? This is her message.
And if an election is about choices, she is trying to provide a very clear one to people who may not like Donald Trump's causticness, as her campaign would see it. So she is banking on the fact that that's a majority of Americans. We will see if she is right.
B. BALDWIN: Brianna Keilar, thank you.
KEILAR: You bet.
B. BALDWIN: One of Donald Trump's biggest supporters will join me, as well as a conservative strategist who is asking CPAC to disinvite Trump this weekend. It shows exactly how big the divide is between Trump and the Republican Party.
Plus, it seems impossible that somehow Chris Christie's face -- love the spotlight, thank you -- is getting more attention than Trump's hands. Why the New Jersey governor is being asked to resign for jumping on the Trump train.
You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:15:28]
B. BALDWIN: And we're back. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Donald Trump won seven Super Tuesday states and is even better positioned than ever to win the party's nomination with only. Yes, we're counting, 138 days until the Republican convention, rumors about it being brokered could become more than merely talk.
We just learned that Mitt Romney will -- quote -- "address the state of the presidential race" tomorrow in a big speech at the University of Utah. Hmm.
This as Donald Trump himself just spoke out against a divided party from the campaign's celebration at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, I am a unifier. I know a lot of people are going to find that a little hard to believe, but, believe me, I'm a unifier. Once we get all of this finished, I'm going to go after one person. That's Hillary Clinton.
I am a unifier. I would love to see the Republican Party and everybody get together and unify. And when we unify, there is nobody, nobody that's going to beat us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
B. BALDWIN: Joining me now, Liz Mair. She's the former online communications director for the RNC. She now runs an anti-Trump super PAC called Make America Awesome. America is already great. And Mark Burns is with us. He's the pastor at Harvest Praise and Worship Center in South Carolina. He's a Donald Trump supporter.
Welcome to both of you.
LIZ MAIR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you for having me.
MARK BURNS, PASTOR, HARVEST PRAISE AND WORSHIP CENTER: Glad to be here.
B. BALDWIN: You got it. Good deal.
So, Liz, to you first. The annual Conservative Political Action Conference is this weekend. I know you started a petition to disinvite Trump. Before I even get to that, can we share this picture. Let's share the photo of you in this surgical mask that you wore yesterday where you wrote the hashtag #neverTrump.
MAIR: Right.
B. BALDWIN: Why did do you that?
MAIR: Well, first of all, the surgical mask is because I have actually been recovering from pneumonia. So going out to vote where a lot of people were going to be, and we have at love sick people in Northern Virginia right now, it was very important for me to wear the surgical mask.
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: Fortunately, CNN studios are a little bit of a safer environment, so I don't have to.
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: As far as the never Trump, the reality is that I'm one of a huge, huge number of people who are economically conservative, more socially or culturally conservative, more concerned about national defense, foreign policy, national security in this country who simply will never be able to vote for Donald Trump, because the reality is that on virtually every single issue position, he has exactly the same position as Hillary Clinton, or indeed on some of them he is to the left of her, such as health care.
The only difference between him and Hillary Clinton is that he is a little less keen on Mexicans and Muslims and maybe possibly Asians to a certain degree. That is the only difference. And if you're somebody --
B. BALDWIN: Wow.
MAIR: -- who favors limited government, lower taxes, less regulation, less government interference in the private market, you oppose things like partial-birth abortion, you oppose efforts to restrict Second Amendment rights, and you want a robust American foreign policy that continues to treat Israel as our ally, as opposed to treating it as being on a par with a bunch of Palestinian terrorists, you don't have a choice.
You have to oppose Donald Trump, because Donald Trump is where Hillary Clinton is on all of those issues, if not worse.
B. BALDWIN: Wow. That is Liz's perspective.
Pastor, Trump is your man. Care to jump in and disagree?
BURNS: Well, absolutely I disagree.
Listen, Donald Trump has struck a chord. First of all, excuse my voice. This is being on the -- supporting the Trump campaign as much as I can across the country, screaming to the public that Trump is -- has captured the heart of Americans.
He has captured the hearts of the -- of those who have refused to be politically correct even more. And, really, as I said, across this country, he is saying the things publicly that millions of Americans have been whispering privately.
And so this is why he again has done well yesterday in Super Tuesday, and we expect him to be the nominee. The key at this point is for the GOP to really stop bashing Donald Trump, making him out to be somebody who he's not, and really rally behind someone that's going to defeat Hillary Clinton.
Again, Donald Trump, obviously, he's not the -- your established politician. But that's why he's doing so great. Again, he is saying publicly what millions of Americans have been saying and whispering privately, even with the African-American community.
[15:20:03]
It is amazing how even right now how the liberal media is doing a wonderful job in making Donald Trump out to be this racist bigot. And he is, of course, none of those things.
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: It's not the liberal media. It's not the liberal media. It's Donald Trump's own statements.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: One voice, please.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNS: -- really saying, listen, we are at a place where we definitely need jobs.
We need -- listen to me -- 90 percent -- excuse me -- 9.5 of blacks have been unemployed in the last quarter of 2015, according to -- compared to the 4.5 unemployment rate for whites. We need someone that's going to come in and create jobs.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: OK, Pastor, let me let Liz jump in.
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: And there is absolutely nothing in Donald Trump's record to suggest he will do that.
In fact, he has said on the record in a debate that he believes that Americans, not just people on the minimum wage, but Americans in general, our wages are too high, we get paid too much, we should get paid more like what people get paid in China, so that we can be competitive.
This is a guy who, when he was in charge of casinos, that's what he said. And you can't argue with his own words.
BURNS: Donald Trump has said over and over again --
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: This is a guy who, when he has been in charge of casinos, has repeatedly, has repeatedly slashed worker benefits, forced people into Obamacare.
(CROSSTALK)
BURNS: The middle class has been dealt a bad hand.
MAIR: It doesn't matter. He is the one who has been dealing them a bad hand.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Only, my goodness. I need my whistle today. I need my whistle. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Please, sir.
MAIR: Donald Trump is the one who has been screwing over American workers for decades now.
He is not going to create jobs. He is not going to improve their lot. And anybody who is buying what he is selling is either being actively paid off by him, selling their soul, or is simply being conned, the way that all of the people who bought into his massive Trump University scam were being conned.
And, by the way, we're going to learn more about that when he actually has to take the witness stand in an upcoming trial and talk about exactly how he made bank, while other people got poorer and blew their life savings supposedly to learn his secrets, got conned out of their money, and ended up shortchanged.
This is not a man that anybody in their right mind wants as president. I don't know what you did, Pastor, to sell your soul to this guy. I'm going to heaven with a clean conscience.
(LAUGHTER)
MAIR: I stand for my principles. You can be wherever you want to be, but the reality is, Donald Trump, by his own words, is not a conservative.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Let him respond to that selling his soul comment.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Pastor, please. Pastor, go ahead.
BURNS: Let me just say just, first of all, Liz, I'm grateful, Liz, you are not God. I'm grateful you didn't die on the cross for my sins. I'm grateful that you are not the final judge of what's going on in my heart.
It's sickening and -- saddened that there are people like you who are saying, oh, my lord, you have sold your soul, you have sold your --
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: Well, it's sickening and saddening to me.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Let him finish. Let him finish.
BURNS: Who are you, Liz, to judge and to decide how I should be feeling, not just as a black man, but as an American? Who are you to decide?
I'm a father of six beautiful children. I think security is important to America. I am also an African-American who lives in the South and has seen real racism. And I understand what real racism look like.
I pastor a multicultural church. And I know what real racism looks like, having dealt with it. My wife is a Caucasian woman, having lived with it for 12, 13 years of what -- real racism.
And for you to come here and to say who have I sold my soul to, to support somebody who -- listen, I shouldn't be criticized for supporting someone that I believe is lined up to the political values that I hold dear as an American, and as millions of Americans have joined Donald Trump in doing the very same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: This is why I want to make sure both of you --
(CROSSTALK)
MAIR: -- abortion through the final term.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Both of you, thank you so much.
(CROSSTALK)
B. BALDWIN: Welcome to the state of the presidential race.
Liz, thank you. Liz Mair, I appreciate it.
MAIR: Thank you.
B. BALDWIN: Pastor Burns, thank you.
Listen, I want to hear from everyone, because everybody's voices are so important. We are electing a president.
Thank you both so much.
MAIR: Thank you. B. BALDWIN: Next for the Dems, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton is
laser-focused on the general election, ahead after huge wins last night in Super Tuesday. But has the threat from Bernie Sanders truly subsided? We will talk live to a U.S. senator backing Hillary Clinton.
Also ahead: Mitt Romney scheduled this surprise speech tomorrow at a critical moment for his party. What is on the former presidential nominee's mind?
That is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:29:22]
B. BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
An unusual memo from Hillary Clinton's campaign is sending ripples across the trail today. Bottom line, they are saying there is no hope for Bernie Sanders.
This is a part of it -- quote -- "With a pledged delegate lead of more than 180 and our momentum on our side, we anticipate building on this lead even further, making it increasingly difficult and eventually mathematically impossible for Senator Sanders to catch up."
Let me bring in Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin.
Senator, great to have you on.
SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D), WISCONSIN: It's great to join you.
B. BALDWIN: We know you have endorsed Hillary Clinton.
T. BALDWIN: Yes.
B. BALDWIN: And let me ask you say -- let me ask you just straight up, is it time for your Senate colleague Bernie Sanders to just drop out of this race?
T. BALDWIN: You know, the primaries on both sides still aren't over.
But I thought that Hillary had a huge, huge step forward last night with the victories in multiple states
