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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Republicans and Trump; Super Tuesday Breakdown; Rubio Wins First State. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired March 02, 2016 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May also be motivated against a Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz, or whoever they end up with. I think the motivation to participate in this election is going to be very high.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Michael Eric Dyson (ph), Eric Edward Espinosa (ph), thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, guys, so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.
BOLDUAN: And thank you all so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."
BERMAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.
It was super to be sure, especially if your last name was Trump or Clinton. But Tuesday is now history. And if there's a knockout blow to be struck in either party's fight to the nomination, it is still to come, folks, and possibly later this month.
The Republican frontrunner is still that, and more, in fact, after winning seven of 11 state GOP primaries and caucuses, making up the biggest single day of nomination season. Ted Cruz handily captured his must-win home state, Texas, along with Oklahoma, the primary and the caucuses in Alaska. And Marco Rubio finally has a wen in his column, the Minnesota caucuses.
On the Democratic side, the frontrunner, also winning seven states yesterday. In fact, six of Hillary Clinton's victories came in the same states that Donald Trump won as well. For his part, Bernie Sanders won his home state of Vermont. He also took Oklahoma, the primary there, and Minnesota. And guess what else? The Colorado caucuses.
So here's where they stand in the only race that counts. Trump commands 315 Republican delegate from all the states that have weighed in to date. Cruz, 205. Rubio, 106. Among the Democrats, Clinton, 1,055 delegates, but almost half of them are so-called super delegates, not pledged in the primaries or the caucuses. And Sanders, 418.
And even before the polls closed in some states, Clinton addressed her supporters with an eye to November. Trump speaking to reporters with an eye to November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know we've got work to do. But that work - that work is not to make America great again. America never stopped being great. We - we have to make America whole. We have to fill in. Fill in what's been hollowed out.
CROWD: USA. USA. USA.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that's frankly going to be an easy race. You see the polls. I beat Hillary in many polls. I know one thing, I don't think Marco's going to be able to beat her. I don't think, in all fairness, I think Ted's going to have a very hard time. But Ted, at least, has a shot because at least he's won a little bit.
So I just tell you this, we are going to be a much finer party, a much - we're going to be a unified party. I mean to be honest with you. And we are going to be a much bigger party. And you can see that happening. We're going to be a much bigger party. Our party is expanding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So much to chew on. What does it all mean? Joining me with their thoughts are progressive activist and CNN political commentator Van Jones, also CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany, and conservative activist and radio host and CNN political commentator Ben Ferguson.
Ben, I'm going to begin with you. A lot of headlines saying GOP in triage, GOP desperate to figure out where it's going, who it is. What will they do? Who won't they support? Who will they support? And then there's this question about the two paths left for the GOP elites, and that is, number one, accept this man as the head of your ticket, or mount an all-out historic rebellion. What's it going to be?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think of that even as rebellion. I think what this is, is this is a race where you have an awful lot of people showing up to vote. This is a huge engagement within the Republican Party right now and conservatives and new voters coming out. The reality is, if you're Marco Rubio this morning, how can you convince people that coming in third place consistently is somehow going to get you to first place?
I do think this is a two-man race right now. I think even Donald Trump, who admitted that last night saying, look, Ted Cruz had a good night. Many people thought Ted Cruz was not going to win states. In fact, people were saying that it was going to be a Trump sweep. It wasn't a Trump sweep at all. It is very close in the delegate count moving forward. And I think you're going to see us being vigorous moving forward.
I also think Ted Cruz plays very well in states that are coming up. And there's going to be proportional delegates that are going to come out of those states and he's in a good position right now for a two- man race.
BANFIELD: So, Kayleigh, if anybody is freaking out, that doesn't mean necessarily that there is this catastrophic meltdown going on, but if anyone is freaking out and they think they need to strategize and quick to get rid of your guy, they have about two weeks to do it because by some very quick math, you've got Florida and Ohio coming up in one week. That's 99 and 66 delegates apiece. And then in two weeks you've got Arizona with 58. And if you do that all together, that makes 223 delegates. That's a lot in two weeks. And if your guy is able to vacuum up a lot of those delegates, they won't have any choice after that.
[12:05:28] KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Ashleigh, there's no doubt about it, which is why Politico reported yesterday that Marco Rubio, his campaign staff had meetings with fundraisers saying, guys, stay in here, we've got Florida coming up. And this was before results even came out. They knew that they were going to lose yesterday and they did lose commanding. I agree with Ben, this is a two-man race. It's Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Ted Cruz has a narrow path, but I do think Donald Trump has the only path.
BANFIELD: There might be a - there might be a third man in there in the way of this super PAC called Our Principles PAC. They had a phone call yesterday, Kayleigh. There were about 50 GOP donors and power brokers on that call and the call was all about what do we do to take this man down? And you've got to be honest, Donald Trump has not faced a barrage yet of heavy spending and negative advertising.
MCENANY: And he'll face it in Florida. There's no doubt. And I think he'll weather those attacks. But I think the key to this super PAC you pointed out is it's GOP donors and fundraisers. These are the establishment guys. Those are the ones who don't like Trump. It's not voters at large. It said - the CNN poll from Friday showed that just 25 percent of voters wouldn't support Trump if he were the nominee. The same number wouldn't support Cruz or Rubio if they were the nominee. So this is not a voter issue. This is an establishment issue. It's the political class that won't rally around Trump.
FERGUSON: I - see, I disagree. Yes, I don't - I don't think it's an establishment issue. I think it is an issue simply of, there is a ton of opposition research on Donald Trump that has not been used because people have been gun shy to use it. That changed I think about a week ago and that's what we're seeing now. And I think that it's time for Donald Trump to deal with this.
A great example goes back to the simple issue of his taxes. When is he going to release his tax returns and what's in there that he's going to hide? I think you're going to hear a lot of that because people are worried that if you don't vet him now -
BANFIELD: Let me get - let me get Van into this. Let me get Van into this.
And, Van, I'm sure you were watching yesterday as a whole bunch of people rolled out of their various offices on Capitol Hill and had to say something about Donald Trump. Paul Ryan effectively saying you got to clean up your language if you're going to be a part of this party. And then Mitch McConnell effectively saying the same thing and going further to say, hey, anybody on Capitol Hill who's going to run a down ballot race from Donald Trump, you are on your own. If you need to - if you need to run him down to run yourself up, so be it. Those are my words, but effectively that was the message.
And then you had John Cornyn saying the same thing. Most people would say that if you're running down the guy at the top of your ticket, it's - it's a boon to someone like Hillary Clinton. But - but Donald Trump benefits when politicians hate him. So it's a weird irony you have to accept.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Two things. First of all, if from a game theory point of views, he has forked the Republicans and he's forked the public. If you attack him, he grows. If you leave him alone, he grows. If you call him a racist, he grows. If you ignore his racism and hope that he get - he stays on the same thing and he grows. He has forked folks and that's I think something that people have to get their heads wrapped around.
The other thing I think is very important to - to get your head wrapped around, Paul Ryan is not a liberal. Paul Ryan is not a rhino. If Paul Ryan comes out and he speaks - this is the guy that's going to be holding the gavel at that convention. If he feels that he has to say something, that's very, very significant. You can brush away a lot of these other folks, but I thought that Paul Ryan did something extraordinarily. He did - he modeled what you would want to see from the frontrunner. He modeled passion against the clan. A domestic terrorist organization.
I think why people are so concerned about Trump, it's not, is he a racist, is he not a racist. It's, why would he not be passionate in denouncing, oh, I disavow. No, denounce a terrorist organization like the Klan. He did didn't. Paul Ryan did. That shows you that there's something going on even though among hardcore conservatives that's disturbing them about Trump, at least on this issue.
BANFIELD: So I want to just get this out there and that is that there are those saying there is a concerted effort, guys, for folks in the establishment to get John Kasich to drop out -
FERGUSON: Yes.
BANFIELD: Because if he does -
MCENANY: There's no doubt. There's -
BANFIELD: Then that will help to put some of those votes towards someone else and maybe run the clock towards to the convention.
FERGUSON: No, that - BANFIELD: And if that happens, let me just ask this -
FERGUSON: Yes.
BANFIELD: Because it's crazy talk. If you have to go to a brokered convention, and let's say those Republicans that hate Donald Trump have to field, say, an independent or a third party candidate, what does that say to the voters of America? I kind of know how you're going to respond to this, but what does it say to the voters, the Republican voters, who said, I am a Republican and he is who I want.
FERGUSON: Well, it would be a massive fight. I do think the one thing that people are underestimating here is the fact that there is massive engagement right now. That is not a bad thing and people keep acting like, if we get close to the convention, this is going to destroy the Republican Party. I don't think it's going to destroy the Republican Party. I think you have so many people coming to the table, you're having a massive fight right now, you're having high voter turnout right now, but we're far away from that.
[12:10:13] If you have Ben Carson who drops out, and there's talk that people are going to say, hey, drop out and run for Senate. You can run for that open seat. That may be one scenario. Kasich is another one. You're going to see pressure on them because as long as they're in the race, and Rubio, Donald Trump will definitely be the nominee. The longer that this is a solid race with multiple candidates, Donald Trump will win this. They have to get out, otherwise it's going to be - it's going to be trouble.
MCENANY: Can I quickly -
BANFIELD: OK, And (INAUDIBLE) find out if he can be a unifier, especially after he said if -
MCENANY: Sure.
BANFIELD: I plan to get along. But if Paul Ryan doesn't get along with me, you know, it's going to be (INAUDIBLE).
FERGUSON: Yes. You know -
MCENANY: Ashleigh, may I quickly -
BANFIELD: It's going to be trouble. It's going to be a problem.
MCENANY: May I quickly respond to one thing Van said.
BANFIELD: Real quickly, I'm out of time.
MCENANY: OK. You referred to Trump's racism and I just want to point out, Trump is not a racist. For 69 years he's walked on this earth, he is not a racist. He's employed minorities. He's supported Democrat candidates who have advocated for minority causes.
JONES: Well, thank you very much for employing us. Thank you very much for employing us. MCENANY: He's dismissed the KKK four times. He is not a racist. That's a serious accusation and we shouldn't throw that word around loosely.
BANFIELD: So I'll tell you what, that conversation - Van, I'm going to play your (ph) in conversation coming up.
JONES: Black kids are getting beat up at his rallies. And he's not denounced it. Black kids are being beat up at his rallies.
BANFIELD: Sorry, hold on one second. Van, I want to get to that but I'm out of time for this segment but we are going to talk about that very topic, about racism, about Trump supporters -
JONES: He asked a woman, are you a Mexican? Are you a Mexican? He's - he asked, are you -
BANFIELD: We're going to talk about that in a moment.
JONES: OK.
BANFIELD: And I'm also going to play your extraordinary conversation with Jeffrey Lord later on in the program as well. So we are going to cover that, I promise you, Van Jones. But, you know, we could go on and on for six hours and never get off the one segment.
MCENANY: Right.
BANFIELD: Kayleigh , Ben and Van, I love you all. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, guys.
FERGUSON: Thanks.
MCENANY: Thank you, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: You know, in most of the election we learned way more about a race from the exit polls than we do from the actual results. And Super Tuesday, no exception to this. Coming up next, fascinating insights into what motivated voters on both sides. And what those numbers say about what could happen next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:15:50] BANFIELD: Exit polls from Super Tuesday are telling a brand new story and it could be a window into the future of the GOP race. Want to take a close look because it shows an angry Republican electorate that came out in droves, record numbers on Super Tuesday. I want to break it down now with CNN Money's chief business correspondent Christine Romans.
You've just been crunching these numbers in the most fascinating way.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BANFIELD: And it does tell a lot about who these Trump voters are and why so many people are getting off their duff for the first time and coming out. ROMANS: Look, it's the mad as hell electorate, GOP electorate that is
mad as hell. And these - these - all these numbers, these exit polls, it' a bunch of numbers but they really show you feelings and opinions and world views of all of these voters.
So this is what we found. Let's look at Tennessee for the GOP, for example. People who are angry with the government, really angry with the government, they broke for Donald Trump. Look at by how much. Almost two to one to Donald Trump. Look at Arkansas. The Republican primary in Arkansas. Voters who are angry with the federal government.
BANFIELD: It's almost the same number.
ROMANS: Same story.
BANFIELD: Yes.
ROMANS: Same Story. We saw this again and again.
Let's go up to Massachusetts, because we know down south they were very, very angry with their government and their party, frankly. And the way up to Massachusetts, of those who are not from the - they want not from the political establishment, look at that, Donald Trump is their guy. And they went for - moderates and conservatives both in Massachusetts went for Donald -
BANFIELD: That's always been high, but not that high.
ROMANS: That is really high.
BANFIELD: Wow.
ROMANS: And that was higher there than some other states.
Let's talk about when you decided to vote. Now, this was something that shows I think a little bit of a crack - a crack in the domination that was Donald Trump last night. People who were late deciders broke for Rubio. We saw that again and again. In the last few days if you decided, chances are you broke for Rubio. But look at this one. This is in Virginia. Virginia's a very important state, by the way. It will be a battleground. Trump is still the second one, you know, if they broke late -
BANFIELD: And look at the spread.
ROMANS: Look at the spread.
BANFIELD: And do you attribute that, like you're some magical seer, but I mean Rubio got in the mud and started flinging the insults and getting down and dirty and using bad words.
ROMANS: There was a change - there was a change in Rubio in the last few days.
BANFIELD: Yes.
ROMANS: And that - the late deciders, we've seen that in some of the other races, but the late deciders really favored him.
Now, what about share my values? If you ask voters, is the most important thing to you that they share your values, who do they go for? Well, when you look over here for example in Oklahoma, --
BANFIELD: Wow.
ROMANS: Which Ted Cruz won, by the way, Ted Cruz was the one. So there were a few little categories where Donald Trump was trumped by either Cruz or Rubio, but mostly it was just utter domination for him in this race. Across ideologies, across income, across age, it was just - it was just the Trump game last night.
BANFIELD: The same dynamic, though, is not playing out in the Democratic race between Clinton and Sanders.
ROMANS: It isn't. And what's so interesting there, they're almost like a mirror image of each other when you look at Clinton and Sanders. OK, so let's look at Texas. When you look at Latino voters, Hillary Clinton did very, very well. With white voters, Donald Trump - I'm sorry, Bernie Sanders did very, very well. When you look at age, though, that's where you just see this spectrum. The older the voter, the more likely to vote for Hillary Clinton. The younger the voter, the more likely to vote for Bernie Sanders.
But when we asked these voters in these exit polls about Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, would you be satisfied if the other one - say they're a supporter of Hillary Clinton, would you be satisfied if Bernie Sanders were the guy? Yes, they'd be pretty satisfied. So the Democrats, at least, it seemed like they were comfortable with the other candidate. They just really broke differently on age and race. But in the Republicans, I mean it's a Donald Trump domination and those voters are angry with the establishment, angry with their party and angry with the federal government.
BANFIELD: Well, I suppose you could suggest that the Democrats aren't as angry because they've got a Democrat in the White House right now.
ROMANS: That's true.
BANFIELD: So they don't have that kind of anger that Republicans would. And if you had said that 12 years or eight years ago, that might have been the exact same story but an opposite kind of way, right?
ROMANS: Potentially.
BANFIELD: Democrats would have been the angry ones and the Republicans might not.
Christine Romans, thank you.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
BANFIELD: You free every day for this? This is just so fascinating.
ROMANS: I love me some exit polls. Love it.
BANFIELD: It - love me some exit polls. Christine, thank you for that. Appreciate it.
Listen, no matter how you slice it, it really looks like time could be running out for Senator Marco Rubio because despite going after frontrunner Donald Trump, as Christine was just talking about, over these last few days and those late deciders coming into his column, his lone victory on Super Tuesday was just Minnesota. And now Rubio is looking ahead to his home state of Florida. By my count, 99 delegates. He is hoping to cash in on that winner take all state, delegate rich state.
[12:20:18] Meantime, as he continues to pitch himself as the viable alternative to Trump, he had to field this question from Jake Tapper when he was asked point blank about the future of his candidacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm just wondering if there's a certain amount of denial that you're in about this race?
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, Jake. No. If you look again, we're in the winner take all phase of this. You know this is about delegate count. This is not a traditional race. Usually in a race like this, you'd have a frontrunner and at this point people would be saying, you need to drop out and rally around the frontrunner for the sake of the party. They're saying the opposite now. There will never come a time in this race where our supporters are asking us to get out and rally around Donald Trump. What people are saying is, fight as hard as you can to save the party of Lincoln and Reagan from a con artist who refuses to criticize the KKK. If we nominate Donald Trump as our nominee for the Republican Party, it will be the end of the modern Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining us now on the phone to discuss this is James Frank, who is a Texas state representative and a Rubio supporter.
Oh, Representative Frank, thank you so much for being with us today especially on the, you know, the morning after. A lot of people are talking about it being the morning after. A very uncomfortable time for some candidates. That question though, representative, though, was so telling. Are you in denial? Because a lot of people would say, Minnesota, that's it? Trump's the runaway. That can be nothing but denial. But he's still sticking with no.
JAMES FRANK (R), TEXAS STATE HOUSE (via telephone): No. Well, thank - thank you - thank you for having me.
I do think part of the story, you know, the story going into yesterday was that Trump was going to run the table, win 11 states, win 10. In fact, he lost in four states and certainly a significant part of that was the performance of Ted Cruz, and frankly I'm quite proud of Texas where 72 percent of the people said they don't want Trump. But I think, you know, ultimately, over half the electorate is voting for one of the most conservative senators in the country. So if Trump continues to be the story that nobody's talking about, the fact that he grossly underperformed last night, because he didn't win, but I've got to give him credit for that.
BANFIELD: So, Representative Frank, let's talk Florida. Look, Florida is, by all accounts folks are saying if he doesn't pull in his home state, he's done. I don't know if he feels that way, but the most recent numbers I've got for you, just to talk about where he stands right now in his home state, are the Quinnipiac poll. Trump at 44, Rubio at 28. That is difficult to stomach. How - what's his strategy for Florida? How is he going to get past that stretch?
FRANK: Well, I think - and we can talk a lot about past strategy, but for whatever reason, nobody's laid a glove on Trump's task until last week and then both camps understood the importance of actually talking about his history. And I really think his past doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The past statements given he's had -
BANFIELD: Is that his strategy then? Is that what - Representative Frank, are you telling me that the strategy is to do what he's been doing over the last six, seven days, which is gloves off, get dirty, get ugly, and call that guy out? Is that the strategy for Florida?
FRANK: Well, I think - I think - I think - and I certainly can't speak for the - I mean I can't speak for the strategy of the campaign. I am a - I'm a big supporter and fan of his, but I certainly think it is important to talk about the background of Donald Trump. That is - it's an important thing for the America people. I - you know, everybody understands, everybody understands that the American people are mad. The question is whether or not Donald Trump is the right answer for that anger. Or whether you want to go with someone who has not been part of the establishment, has not been - you know, the - really is, what is the answer? And I think most of the country, really most of the Republican Party, doesn't believe it's Donald Trump.
BANFIELD: Representative Frank, it's great of you to be with us today. I do thank you.
FRANK: All right, thank you.
BANFIELD: You be well.
Coming up next, brand-new clue in one of the biggest aviation mysteries of all time. Recognize that map? I'm sure you do. A U.S. official says airplane debris found on the coast of Mozambique is very likely from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:28:43] BANFIELD: We just learned today that that piece of wreckage from a Boeing 777 - sound familiar - washed ashore over the weekend just off the coast of Mozambique. And it is likely from MH370, although there's no confirmation of this. The newly discovered debris is - is on its way right now to Malaysia where experts can do some further examination, try and make some confirmations here. But if you know any of the geography of a Boeing 777, this is a piece of horizontal stabilizer skin. Take a peek at your map right there. This is the search area in red. The debris was found way over to the left, Mozambique. And also you'll see in the middle there, the debris on Reunion Island was found in July and it was indeed confirmed to have been from that missing plane.
More on the geographical pattern and the moment, but first the forensics with CNN contributor Larry Kobilinsky. He's a forensic scientist at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
OK, Larry Kobilinsky, when the Reunion Island material washed up, we were able to talk to you about the forensics of the material that is actually stuck on that piece of plane.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
BANFIELD: What do they do with it and what can they find out?
[12:29:54] KOBILINSKY: Well, that's a good question. What we did was not only look at the biological life, the marine life, the barnacles and other marine creatures, but also look at the object itself through metallurgy that was basically gross - a gross microsp (ph) - gross looking at the item visually.