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Trump Defends Torture During GOP Debate; Interview with Russell Simmons; Democratic Debate in Flint, Michigan; Anti-Trump Ads Hit Airwaves in Florida. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 04, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So, Ron, let's talk about specific policy, namely the use of torture. Right? You heard what Donald Trump said. He also said that he's a leader, and he could convince our military leaders and, you know, the soldiers and the Marines and the sailors out there to violate the Geneva Conventions because people listen to him. He's a leader.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, the important thing, Carol, is, see, he did not use the word convince. He used the word order. And I think that really is what gets to what a lot of critics have questioned from the beginning about Donald Trump, whether he kind of understands the difference between leadership in a public setting and in a private sector, you know, where you are the head of the company and there -- you know, you basically tell people what to do.

There is a also the pesky matter of the law. I mean, 78 senators voted for and President Obama did sign last year legislation reinforcing the ban on torture. So, I mean, there is -- you know, on many of these issues, if you're going to build a wall with, you know, Mexico, how would you pay for it unless Mexico is going to pay for it up front? You're going to need a law. If you're going to deport 12 million people, you would need an appropriation.

Could Donald Trump build the consensus to do any of the things that he is promising? It's a big question. But to go to Ben's point from before, it isn't over, but I think the strategy is fundamentally changed. I don't think any of these candidates are envisioning anymore that they're going to beat Donald Trump in the sense of arriving in Cleveland with more delegates. The strategy is shifting toward simply preventing him from accumulating a majority of delegates and then hoping that the convention sorts it out and turns in another direction.

COSTELLO: Ben, do you think that's possible or is it even too late for that?

FERGUSON: No. I do think it's possible. And I think that's what you saw last night is a lot of lack of momentum, I think. The stopping of the momentum of Trump. And I also think part of what you're now seeing with the voters especially (INAUDIBLE), are his ideas real? You know, Donald Trump started using this word called flexibility. It's a code word for basically flip-flopping. He's saying we need to be flexible on military. We need to be flexible on our immigration policies. We need to be flexible on how I'm going to pay for different projects, and that's one of the things he keeps saying. So I think when people start to see this -- and let's look at what his comments are on terrorists.

I think there's an appetite for people to say, we've been too weak over the last seven years on terrorists, and release them from Gitmo and then go back and fight against America and killing innocent people, but when you say you're going to target entire family of a terrorist because they were a terrorist, that is against the law. It will never be accepted by the world. It will never be accepted by Congress. And that is a point that has to be made very clearly by the other candidates in this field. Rubio and Cruz to say you may like the idea of being tough on terrorism, as we do.

We may want to argue of the water boarding, but literally, you cannot go and just indiscriminately destroy an entire family and blow their home up because they had a child that was connected to terrorism. They may not have been terrorists. They may not have even known what the child was doing or the husband, et cetera. Some of the family members know. Some of them even support them. But that is a policy decision that has to be declared by the other candidates as insane and unrealistic.

And I think that's why they're looking at this brokered convention, saying, even as Mitt Romney said, and I think he was a bad messenger, but he said look, we've got to have, wherever these three candidates can win, you need to vote for them. I don't think it was the best messenger for that, but I think that's pretty obvious. What a lot of people are looking at right now is hey, if no one gets out, pick the candidate that can win where you're voting to stop Donald Trump. I wouldn't recommend it personally.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the other thing. Yes.

FERGUSON: But that they can do what they want.

COSTELLO: Here's the other thing. I just want to go back to this military policy that Donald Trump has, Ron. So he says, you know, he's going to order these soldiers in the field to violate the law, not thinking of how they feel. I mean, we already have a problem with PTSD with our men and women coming back from the field, and he really wants to put them in that position?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, it's part of the reason -- it didn't get enough attention, but, you know, two days ago 95 former Republican National Security and domestic security officials and leading foreign policy thinkers wrote a letter saying that not only did they think that Donald Trump was unqualified to be president, they would not support him if he was the Republican nominee. And this included Michael Chertoff, Fran Townsend, senior domestic, you know, anti- terrorism officials in the Bush administration. Philip Zelikow, the executive director of the 9/11 Commission. Robert Kagan, kind of leading neo-conservative foreign policy thinker.

I mean, these are major pillars of conservative thinking on foreign policy over the last several decades. And it does get to this kind of broader issue. Republicans are at this incredibly difficult crossroads. Donald Trump is unquestionably stronger than any of the other -- any of the other candidates. He has a bigger, broader coalition. But he is a plurality leader at this point. He did not grow to the extent we expected on Super Tuesday. He won only a little more than one-third of the vote. He is in a position to definitely accumulate more delegates than any of the other rivals, but it does not appear that there is a majority of the party that is coalescing in a way that is saying yes, this is our guy.

So on the one hand, you either deny the nomination of the person who has the most delegates or you go ahead with a nominee who bitterly divides the party and either way, you've got kind of a recipe for civil war.

[10:35:05] COSTELLO: OK. I got to leave it there. Thanks to both of you.

FERGUSON: Carol, only two states --

COSTELLO: Quickly now, Ben.

FERGUSON: Thanks. No, I just said there's only two states --

COSTELLO: All right. I'm sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: -- on Super Tuesday. He is a vulnerable candidate.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Thanks to you both. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons outspoken about the Flint water crisis, and now he's ready to support a 2016 candidate. I'll ask him who it is, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This weekend Flint, Michigan, takes center stage when it hosts a CNN Democratic debate.

Ashley Banfield is in Flint ahead of Sunday night's debate with more.

Hi, Ashleigh.

[10:40:04] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, LEGAL VIEW: Hi. Welcome to the very quiet library here at the University of Michigan in Flint, Carol, and I say quiet -- well, let me tell you why, because there's a sign saying quiet but I'm pretty sure things aren't going to be quite as quiet on Sunday night when the debate is held here.

The Democrats are going to gather here for the debate. I think you can see pretty clearly behind me the roiling Flint River, the source of so much suffering in this city and the source of the reason why I guess the Democrats will be coming here for this debate. There's a big congressional delegation coming even before the Sunday debate, Carol. They're coming today. They're holding something called a speak-out where they're listening to families and the trouble that these families have been going through.

Look at the list on your screen. It's a pretty high level list including the minority leader Nancy Pelosi, and then, of course, Jim Clyburn who is the -- he is the assistant Democratic leader. A host of others who will be coming not only to hear from the people but also to hear from the housing -- Department of Health and Human Services about the federal response to this.

So that's all getting underway now. And in about an hour and a half there should be some information coming from that -- that congressional delegation. But then I think the photo-op that you're going to see is the construction project that is sure to attract a lot of cameras at the top of noon because that is when the first of some of those horrifyingly damaged lead pipes in the city's system are set to be removed.

I don't know if it's just going to be a photo-op or if it's really the beginning of something that's going to make a difference for the people of Flint, Michigan, who by the way, Carol, you and I use this on occasion for convenience, but the people here use them not only to drink but to bathe their kids, to bathe themselves, and to cook as well. It is a nightmare if you live in Flint.

COSTELLO: All right. Ashley Banfield, thanks for the update. I appreciate it.

One man who's been very active in Flint is Russell Simmons. RushCard, the prepaid debit card company he has founded, has donated 150,000 bottles of water to help the people in Flint. Simmons then personally took a trip to the city to hand out water himself.

Russell Simmons joins me now. Welcome.

RUSSELL SIMMONS, FOUNDER OF RUSHCARD: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Do you think that this Democratic delegation heading to Flint will make a difference?

SIMMONS: Well, I think bringing awareness to the problem is very important, and I think in my trip to Flint I got to visit some of the inhabitants, and I was shocked to find mothers who had two children who were suffering from lead poisoning. One child hadn't spoken for -- in fact, he was 3, and he hadn't spoken at all, and the other child was experiencing seizures in one household, and other mothers had children who had lead poisons. Other mothers had not tested their children but it's very likely that their children, too, were poisoned.

Imagine if this happened in Beverly Hills and the governor knew for two years that people were being poisoned. That governor would be under arrest. Certainly the attorney general would have investigated him. And -- he would have been out of office and under arrest. And here we are in a state where the attorney general has taken no action and where the governor is still in office.

COSTELLO: You know --

SIMMONS: I'm less interested in getting the governor than I am making a change for the people of Flint. I would think that would be evacuated if it was anywhere where people were wealthy and had any kind of influence. And so this is a horrific incident. And we need to act on it.

COSTELLO: Last night during the Republican debate, the moderators asked the candidates about the situation in Flint. And in particular, the governor of the state of Michigan and if he was at fault or if he displayed any criminal behavior. This is how Senator Marco Rubio responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The politicizing of it I think is unfair because I don't think that someone woke up one morning and said, let's figure out how to poison the water system to hurt someone. But accountability is important. I will say, I give the governor credit. He took responsibility for what happened and he's talked about people being held accountable and the need to change this, Governor Snyder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Your thoughts, Mr. Simmons?

SIMMONS: I think that that is grossly inaccurate. He was aware. He allowed it to happen. To save money, he was offered solutions over a year and a half ago. He didn't want to spend the money and he would never have done it to any of the people who might have voted for him. Earlier I referred to this as environmental racism, but it's really a class issue as much as it is a race issue. Some of the nonblack voters might have voted for him, but they were still poor and didn't vote at the same rate as others.

[10:45:02] This had everything to do with politics. It had everything to do with underserved communities being underrepresented. And I can't believe that they would separate this governor and his actions from anything but criminal.

COSTELLO: Would you like to see --

SIMMONS: It's criminal what he did.

COSTELLO: Would you like to see some of the Republican candidates running for president in Flint?

SIMMONS: Well, you know, it was Senator Clinton who suggested they have that debate there. Her aides traveled there the day that I traveled there and came to the rally that I helped her promote. So I think the Democrats are more sensitive to the plight of underserved communities, and they have been, and what the Republicans are saying is those people don't matter, and they're saying it consistently by not even -- by blocking the aid that should go to the people who needed it the most. They would never do that to an affluent community who had influence in

their careers, and the governor is guilty, was aware, and it is political. And so it is not only political. Again, it's criminal, what he did.

COSTELLO: We've been --

SIMMONS: So that's just -- it's fact and anybody who investigates it knows it's fact.

COSTELLO: I just want to ask you before you have to go, we've been monitoring your Twitter account. Are you endorsing someone for president?

SIMMONS: Yes, I have just decided to endorse my longtime friend, Senator Clinton. I think that Bernie Sanders is overpromising. He's insensitive to the plight of black people, and what good is it if you don't take lobbyist money or you don't acknowledge the number one threat to America and to the world is the factory farming lobby, because it is poisoning the planet quickly, and it is poisoning its inhabitants.

So the shift has to be made away from the animal product, away from the beef industry, specifically, but all the animal products into a plant-based diet or there will be no planet, and in the next 50 years we won't even have an ocean. And when the oceans die, we die. So we must change the rate of which we consume animals and we cannot have a lobbyist take advantage of all our natural resources in order to poison the planet and its people.

I asked him about it. And he was -- he brushed it off even though he knows that your earthquake and certainly all of these storms are a result of factory farming. We now have all the proof in the world that in fact that climate change is manmade and we have to do something to derail it.

COSTELLO: So let me say --

SIMMONS: That to me, aside from his insensitivity to black voters, caused me to support Hillary Clinton --

COSTELLO: Do you really think that Bernie Sanders isn't --

SIMMONS: -- who I think can win.

COSTELLO: Do you really think Bernie Sanders is insensitive --

SIMMONS: I'm sorry.

COSTELLO: Do you really think Bernie Sanders is insensitive to the needs of the black community?

SIMMONS: Specific -- yes. He's insensitive in a number of ways and I would get into it if we had time, but I think Senator Clinton has been sensitive, supportive of a progressive agenda. She's realistic in what she can get done. She's able to beat the Republican candidate, and I think that Bernie Sanders would not be able to, or could lose. And I don't want to take that chance.

COSTELLO: All right. Russell Simmons, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Marco Rubio betting big on Florida but he's got one big problem, that would be Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:38] COSTELLO: All right. CPAC is meeting right now. You see the RNC chairman on stage right now, Reince Priebus. He just said that the RNC would back whoever the nominee would be. Let's listen.

REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I just want to calibrate everyone and remind you what's going on. We have candidates that are competing to be the nominee of the Republican Party who want to join the Republican Party at our convention in Cleveland, and when they join the Republican Party, obviously, they take in what we've been able to build at the RNC. We don't take sides, regardless of what you may think or read. There is no sides that we take at the Republican Party. We build a lot of the things that you may think are kind of boring like ground game, data, engagement --

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to jump away, but RNC chairman Reince Priebus saying the RNC would back whoever the nominee is. And I would assume whoever the nominee means if it's Donald Trump, the RNC will back him.

The Florida primary right around the corner and that means the candidates are setting their sights on the Sunshine State. That contest of course is winner-take-all. For Senator Marco Rubio, the stakes are high. Florida is his home state. But a win for Donald Trump would give Rubio -- would give Trump, rather, a boost of momentum that would be hard to stop.

CNN's Kyung Lah has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're doing really well in Florida.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trump's target, Florida. A crown jewel for the GOP frontrunner. Less than two weeks until the state's winner-take-all primary, the anti-Trump movement is spending monstrous amounts of money, targeting the billionaire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Former students say Trump University was a scam.

LAH: Flooding Florida this week a slew of coordinated attack ads from multiple political action committees, pouncing on his failed businesses like Trump University. To this $1.5 million ad buy an alleged business tactics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump entrusted convicts to help him run his company.

LAH: And there's more. This ad, part of $1.75 million in ads paid for the main group attacking Trump, the American Future Fund.

STUART ROY, AMERICAN FUTURE FUND SPOKESMAN: There is no doubt that we -- again, we're on a compressed time frame, and that it's very urgent that we focus now, and to be in politics you have to be optimistic. And we are optimistic that it's going to work.

[10:55:01] LAH (on camera): You think people in Florida are going to buy that, the anti-Trump movement?

GIL DEZER, DEZER DEVELOPMENT: I don't see the negative noise is going to fall -- it might fall on to just deaf ears. People here who are Trump fans are really Trump fans.

LAH (voice-over): That's why Gil Dezer believes the ad campaign will fail in Florida. Dezer is admittedly biased, business partners and friends with Trump for years. Dezer developed these high rises that carry the billionaire's name.

DEZER: OK. So this project is called the Trump Grand. Trump Towers, Trump Towers One, Two, and Three.

LAH: Towers that went up during the 2008 housing meltdown.

(On camera): Were you panicking during this time?

DEZER: You know, there was a few sleepless nights.

LAH (voice-over): Dezer credits the Trump brand for bringing in international investors and saving his Miami area property.

Not every Florida investment led to a windfall but for decades, the state's skyline has grown with tens of millions of successful Trump brands. According to Federal Election Commission filings, Trump made $15.5 million at his Mar-a-Lago Resort. $50 million at Trump National Doral.

Marco Rubio may be Florida's senator with the Republican establishment and the endorsement of the state's largest newspaper.

RUBIO: We have states awaiting for me in the next few days. But then we're coming to Florida.

LAH: But Trump's business partners say Trump is Florida's investor. Decades long work that supporters believe is more potent than any attack campaign and may pay off in two weeks.

(On camera): Do people in Florida really see Donald Trump as a local man, as somebody who's going to make a difference?

DEZER: I think he's a Florida guy as much as he's a New York guy. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Kyung Lah, reporting.

That's it for me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)