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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Knife Found At O.J. Simpson's Property. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 04, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Unbelievable find.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, I'm standing right in front of the Los Angeles Police Department and Captain Andy Nyman is going to come out in about 15 minutes and try to clarify what is going on with these reports that a knife - unspecified size - was found at the manor of O.J. Simpson's, the well-photographed manor, the one that we know, the O.J. Simpson estate where he gave himself up after the low-speed chase.

As all things O.J. Simpson, Ashleigh, it could be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism because, as you know, sometimes there's wild red herrings and all of this. One of the reports is that a retired Los Angeles police officer turned in this knife. It would have to have been somewhat recently because they wouldn't be having this press conference now. But as you know, this television show that has sort of resurrected interest in O.J. Simpson has whipped up a lot of, let's say, speculation, new theories.

And the reason I talk about this healthy skepticism, Ashleigh, is, we need to make sure that all of this did happened the way they said it happened. We do not know right now how long this officer - if it was indeed an officer, had this knife. We don't know when he found it. Was it actually found on the property of O.J. Simpson? The former property. All these things will needs to be clarified in short order. And we're talking about a highly anticipated news conference. We've got a lot of media here now just waiting to see what, indeed, will come out of this after they talked about this knife. And as I said, in an era where there's a heightened interest in anything O.J., because of the TV show, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, and I should also mention, there have been numerous tabloid reports prior to today's announcement by the LAPD confirming that it has a knife and that that is a knife found at O.J. Simpson's former property which, if you can go back to the mid-'90s, was the Rockingham estate that became so famous in that criminal trial in which hundreds upon hundreds of pieces of evidence were paraded before the American public that was absolutely wrapped.

The images are below. If you can believe it, from 1995. We are coming up on 21 years since that conviction, 22 years since those famous murders.

And, Paul Vercammen, let me just get my audience up to speed in some of those remarkable milestones in that case. The murder was June 12, '94. The jury returned that not guilty verdict

that was jaw-dropping and you could have heard a pin drop. But for those who cheered, or didn't, the country was virtually split almost black and white after that not guilty verdict October 3, 1995.

In February, however, there was a second trial and many followed it just as closely as the criminal trial, but it was a civil trial. A wrongful death trial. And the result was clearly different than the criminal trial. He was found liable. Civil liability was granted in the case of those deaths. And, in fact, in February of '97, O.J. Simpson was ordered to pay $25 million in punitive damages to those two victims' families. They have said year after year for decades they are awaiting payment and interest from that judgment.

Then, of course, you will probably remember there was this remarkable arrest that came in 2007, in September. It had nothing to do with murder, but instead it had to do with kidnapping and robbery. And in '08, O.J. Simpson was, in fact, convicted in a criminal trial of kidnapping and robbery all related to sports paraphernalia in Vegas. And the man who defended him, who stood beside O.J. Simpson and sat beside him over the years of that particular litigation was Yale Galanter. And I am happy to say I'm able to speak with him right now.

Yale, you were one of the first people I thought of when this news broke today. I know there have been rumors about this knife being found, but today the LAPD confirms it. I wanted to get your reaction right away.

YALE GALANTER, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: Well, I think it's interesting that somebody has held it for this long and it's just surfacing when FX is showing this miniseries on O.J. Simpson. There were rumors that there were various items found when the home was demolished back in the late '90s. So from my point of view, I don't think this is nothing new and I think this will turn out to be a whole lot of nothing.

BANFIELD: So, a whole lot of nothing, and yet the LAPD would not respond as it has unless it was at least something. Wouldn't they have put out a statement, Yale, to say, look, everybody, back off, this is something unrelated. We're still where we were since the acquittal.

GALANTER: Ashleigh, I find it amazing that a construction worker gave something that could be involved in the crime of the century to an L.A. police officer, traffic cop, and that the traffic cop has sat on it for years and years and years and we're just finding out about it today. I mean, that makes no sense to me at all. Like a police officer wouldn't turn this over -

[12:05:22] BANFIELD: Well, there - there -

GALANTER: His supervisors, forensics, get it tested. I mean this story - there's a lot more to this story and I think as the days go on we'll find out a lot more about it.

BANFIELD: I'm - I'm with you about just the bizarre nature of this find and the fact that if these stories are true that have circulated in the tabloids for years now, that this was, in fact, turned over only, you know, recently, but has been in the possession of a police officer who perhaps wanted to keep it as a memento. It would be just another jaw-dropping headline in a jaw-dropping case.

That said, Yale, you're one of the only people that I can ask today about O.J. Simpson's demeanor, the person that he became in the last two decades plus since this remarkable case, and then, of course, since the case you defended him in, which, by the way, he may be watching us right now from the lockup in Nevada.

GALANTER: Yes, I mean, I - I mean if your question is, would O.J. be surprised by this? The - you know the answer is absolutely. If you want me to describe his demeanor while I was sitting next to him in Nevada for all that time, that's my pleasure to do. I - I mean I've spoken on it, you know, many, many times. I mean we thought, obviously, that the Nevada case was payback for his acquittal in California and I, you know, even with the events that followed afterwards, I will never change my mind on that.

BANFIELD: You'll never feel as though there was any insight that you got into that case that might have spoken against those verdicts?

GALANTER: I'm not sure I understand that question. I mean, you know, O.J. and I were very, very close. Not only during that trial, but since the year 2000 when I first defended him in Florida on the road rage case. And then there were many cases after that. I mean there was the cable TV incident. Then there was an incident where he was accused of pills. And then there was another incident where there was child protective services came to the house because Sydney, when she was younger, had called, which a lot of celebrity children do, and he was investigated and found out to be a really good father. So I can - I'm showing (ph) my pleasure to give you insight on any of that. I'm just not sure that this particular incident can or will be attached to that murder. I think this incident is highly suspect as I - as I sit here this morning.

BANFIELD: And then, you know, as an attorney - and we're going to talk about the forensics and what actually might be going on with that actual knife in just a moment because the forensics will be key here clearly even after 22 years. Yale, there - everybody knows in this country you only get one crack at that bat. There is a double jeopardy feature in criminal prosecution in murder that means even if O.J. Simpson walked out of a Nevada lockup and said, by the way, I did it, I did everything everyone thought I didn't do, it would not matter. You could not prosecute him for it. So, ultimately, this knife only is for talking purposes. There's really nothing that can come of this criminally speaking, is there?

GALANTER: Absolutely not. Double jeopardy is attached. And to use one of my favorite sayings, Ashleigh, that ship has sailed a long, long time ago. So all of the litigation, criminal liability civil liability, that's all in the history books. That will never change.

Now the - you know, as we've seen, because of the miniseries that FX is putting on, still a very popular topic. Young people want to know about the topic. And people really do want to know what really occurred. Did O.J. do it or didn't he? You know, was he wrongly prosecuted? It's still a topic of debate when you go to cocktail parties. You know, especially with this new miniseries, I'm out all the time and people are asking to me, well, what do you think? And, you know, nothing's obviously changed from a factual standpoint, but this is part of Americana. The O.J. Simpson murder trial, people want to know that there are really - they have this insatiable appetite for everything related to the O.J. Simon murder case in California. It really is still amazing to me.

BANFIELD: All right. You know what, Y ale, I have to fit a commercial break in, but after the break I want to ask you this question. I know that he was up for parole after eight years, I believe, and that conviction was '08, or it was nine years, which would mean it might be this year where he's up for parole. And here's what I want you to think through, and I'm going to ask you after the break, would anything happening now affect any kind of parole hearing in Nevada? I know it's not supposed to, but no one thought that that would be a conviction the way it was in Nevada either.

[12:10:26] Yale Galanter's going to stay with me. In the meantime, we're going to fit in a quick break because we're hoping that the LAPD is going to go live at any moment. Again, the biggest headline this morning, a knife discovered at the former estate of football star O.J. Simpson, unearthed in construction, potentially even years ago. The LAPD taking it seriously though today. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I'm Ashleigh Banfield. I want to welcome our viewers again around the country and all around the world, in fact, as this headline breaks today.

It is 22 years since headlines were on every cable station, every news channel and almost every single paper across this country that O.J. Simpson was the prime suspect in the murder of his ex-wife and her friend. And it was only 20 years plus ago that he was acquitted of those murders. And today a knife now is being discussed by the LAPD as having been found after construction at O.J. Simpson's former estate, Rockingham Estate in Brentwood, in the Brentwood area. The LAPD is heading to the live mikes right now out in front of their headquarters in Los Angeles. Let's listen in.

CAPT. ANDREW NEIMAN, LOS ANGELES POLICE: Well, good morning, everyone. I'm Captain Andrew Neiman, n-e-i-m-a-n, LAPD media relations. So I'm here this morning to give you a little more information about stories that have been going around regarding an alleged knife that may have been recovered. Possibly in connection to the O.J. Simpson case.

So this is what we know.

About within the last month, LAPD became aware of an item that was allegedly recovered by a citizen at the Rockingham property, possibly during the demolition of the site. We need to vet that. we still don't know if that's an accurate account of how this item came into our - our procession. The actual item is described as a knife. I'm not going to go into the description of the knife because that could be germane to determining whether or not this actual piece of evidence is, in fact, evidence or it's just a - a facsimile or made up story. So we need to look into that. And our robbery/homicide is going to look into that.

[12:14:58] So what I can tell you is that the story, as it's told to us by the person we received it from and the person that we received this knife from is a retired LAPD officer who retired back in the late '90s. He was a motor officer and, at the time, according to him, he was working an off-duty, which is - he was working a moving job which a lot of our officers do on an off-duty basis, as well as our retired officers. So I do not know whether he was retired at the time that he allegedly received this item from the person who claimed they found it on the property or whether he was still, in fact, an LAPD officer and then retired some time after that. So we are looking into that.

The bottom line is that with all cases that remain open, such as the O.J. Simpson and other murder cases and robbery cases, unless there's an actual arrest or conviction to prove that we have actually close the case, the cases remain open. That is the - where we are with the O.J. Simpson case. And I shouldn't say the O.J. Simpson case. This - this is the Nicole Brown case. This is a double homicide that is still open and ongoing.

So the investigators will continue to look at this. That item has been recovered by robbery homicide investigators. It is being treated as we would all evidence. So it has been submitted to our lab. They are going to study it and examine it for all forensics, including serology and DNA and hair samples. And that is ongoing as we speak.

So with that, I can take a couple of questions. I may not be able to answer all your questions. So let me - let me start right here first.

QUESTION: Captain, Mark Messer (ph), (INAUDIBLE).

NEIMAN: Yes.

QUESTION: Can you just give us your reaction. And we know the allegations at this point, but your reaction to (INAUDIBLE) the biggest murder trial in all of L.A.'s history. What's your reaction (INAUDIBLE)?

NEIMAN: Well, I was - I was really surprised. I would think that an LAPD officer, if this story is accurate as we're being told, would know that any time you are - you come into contact with evidence, that you should and shall submit that to investigators. So I don't know what the circumstances are, why that didn't happen or if that's entirely accurate or if this whole story is possibly bogus from the get-go involving a variety of people. So we are looking into that. But I was quite shocked.

QUESTION: Do you think (INAUDIBLE) -

NEIMAN: So in terms of charges, the officer is retired. So in terms of administrative charges with the department, we'll look into that. But at this point I don't believe there are any administrative charges that could be filed because he's no longer an employee of the department. In terms of criminal allegations, robbery/homicide and our investigators will look into if there are any potentiality of criminal charges related to this. So we're -

QUESTION: Can you please describe the knife? The condition it was in? How long the knife is? If you found anything on it? Possibly dried blood?

NEIMAN: Yes, I - I don't have that information and the investigators have asked that we not be very descriptive about the knife. So they haven't actually told me. So I don't accidentally tell you. And for obvious reasons. We need to, one, first of all, determine, is this - is this evidence and, if it's not evidence, how do we prove one way or another that it's not? And the only way we can do that is by being able to challenge the people involved as to what the - where it was recovered, how long was - where it was alleged to have been, et cetera.

QUESTION: Can you at least say whether or not though it was a machete or a kitchen knife or a pen knife?

NEIMAN: It's my understanding that it is a knife. That - so it's not - not a machete. So -

QUESTION: Captain Neiman, does double jeopardy apply here? I mean could O.J. be tried even if - or retried even if incriminating evidence like DNA evidence was found on the knife?

NEIMAN: So my understanding - I'm not an attorney, but it's my understanding, from being a police officer for nearly 30 years, that double jeopardy would be in place here. So we could not charge Mr. Simpson with the homicides that he's already been charged with because he's been acquitted.

QUESTION: How long will the investigations of the forensics take?

NEIMAN: It depends. It depends what kind of evidence they are able to glean from the item, but that - we are working on that. And, obviously, there's a lot of attention to this. So we are interested in finding out as quickly as possible so we can put this story to rest or confirm something.

QUESTION: Are you planning to reaching out to O.J.?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) can you describe how he got the knife or how he turned it over (INAUDIBLE)?

NEIMAN: So, as I'm told, the off duty or retired officer was working in the area of the Rockingham Estate and he claimed that an individual who claimed to be a construction worker provided him with this knife claiming that it was found on the property. So he held on to it until just recently when we discovered that he had it and we have now recovered it within the last month.

QUESTION: How long did the -

QUESTION: Have you guys (INAUDIBLE) reached out to O.J. at all? NEIMAN: Do we - that may be part of the investigation, but I don't

know.

[12:20:02] QUESTION: Are you planning to go back to the property to do any further investigation back at his estate?

NEIMAN: There will be plenty of additional investigation. I don't know where that will lead our investigators. Now that property, as many of you know, has been demolished and rebuild, so I don't know if they will be going back there, but certainly they will look into all options. Let me - let me go over here.

QUESTION: What year was the knife recovered?

NEIMAN: Yes, we're not going to provide the exact dates because, again, that could go to our investigators either proving or disproving the legitimacy of this item and where it came from and who was involved.

QUESTION: Where exactly on the property was it found?

NEIMAN: Don't - I don't know that.

QUESTION: Was that the only knife that's ever been recovered or have other knives been turned in by the public on this case?

NEIMAN: Yes. Yes, I don't have - I don't have that information. Sorry.

QUESTION: What's his explanation for holding it for so long?

NEIMAN: It's my understanding that he believed that it was - the case was closed, which, again, is a possibility that he had that misunderstanding. So, again, as I explained at the beginning, any chase the is not - where we don't have a conviction on all of the charges or we're not able to prove to our satisfaction that we have proved the facts of the case remains an open case and that is the case here.

QUESTION: This LAPD officer, he wouldn't know to turn it in?

NEIMAN: I don't know what - what his statement is. That's the information I have at this time. So I'm sure we will look into that further.

QUESTION: Are you releasing the name of the officer?

NEIMAN: We are not releasing his name at this time.

QUESTION: Have you (INAUDIBLE) -

QUESTION: Do you know the name of the person who found the knife initially?

NEIMAN: I - we don't. So we will be looking for that. So I would ask the public. So if you're seeing this story and you believe you're - you are that individual that provided this knife, we would love to have you contact our robbery/homicide division and we would get more information from you then.

QUESTION: Is there a possible obstruction of justice by not turning the knife in?

NEIMAN: Yes, I don't know that. We will certainly look into any potentiality of any criminal charges that may be involved here.

QUESTION: Is it true that he tried to turn in the knife at one point and investigators told him it was worthless -

NEIMAN: I - I don't know that.

Yes.

QUESTION: How much does DNA evidence degrade over time? Is it possibly that there's anything useful on it?

NEIMAN: Yes, I'm not a forensic expert, but it's my understanding that depending on where an item is kept and how it's stored and maintained, that it's possible to get DNA, you know - I mean look at what we do forensically with our natural history and, you know, discovery of items that are very old. So we're hopeful. If this is involved, our investigators will submit it to the labs that are very good at what they do and we'll see.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)?

NEIMAN: I don't know.

QUESTION: How long are you guys looking at until after the test you think you guys start to see any type of DNA analysis?

NEIMAN: Well, it depends on the - the type of testing and the - and the condition of the forensics that we - if we discover any forensics. So there's a lot of processes and, again, I'm not a scientist, so we have folks that are experts in that and they will do everything in their power to maintain that and produce anything that is produceable.

QUESTION: Apologies if you already mentioned this, but can you talk about how LAPD found out about this right now?

NEIMAN: So it was brought to our attention that this retired officer had an item that was believed to or alleged to have be possibly taken from or recovered from the Rockingham Estate back in the '90s and - and that's how - once we learned about that we followed up and recovered it from him.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

NEIMAN: Yes, I don't know how the contact was made, but we - we discovered it and our investigators immediately followed up on that.

QUESTION: Can you tell us what the report is of how the knife was found? Was it buried? Concealed in a wall? What (INAUDIBLE)?

NEIMAN: Yes, that - that I don't know. I don't know where it - where it was recovered or how it was reported to have been recovered.

QUESTION: Are any of the original cases active (INAUDIBLE)?

NEIMAN: Well, when a case is - is - remains open, it is handed off to a special team. Our open case team. And that is who has it at robbery/homicide. So they would not have been the original investigators on this case. And that happens in many cases that go on for years. We have, you know, a number of cases that are still open, you know, from decades ago where the officers and investigators are certainly retired by now.

So, last question.

QUESTION: Captain (INAUDIBLE) retired officer - retired back at the time he received the item?

NEIMAN: We're still trying - I'm - I don't have that information. We're trying to determine that, what his status was when the item was allegedly handed to him, whether he was, in fact, retired or retired shortly after that. All I can tell you is that he did retire in the - in the late '90s. So - and I'm not sure when this item was actually - came into his procession.

QUESTION: And he was working a moving shift?

NEIMAN: He was working - yes, a lot of our officers work. You see them around the community in Los Angeles and elsewhere. Typically they're on LAPD motor - or not LAPD motorcycles. They work on moving bikes that look like LAPD officers and they are in LAPD uniforms. That is by an agreement with the city and with the department that they work those jobs for traffic safety, for the safety of the public. So it's my understanding he was working one of those jobs as a motor officer for the movie (ph) job. So he would, in any case, be off duty, whether he was retired or work - still employed by LAPD but in an off duty capacity.

[12:25:18] QUESTION: What's his name?

NEIMAN: I - we're not providing his name at this time.

OK, thank you very much.

BANFIELD: And with that, Captain Andrew Neiman wraps up a very quick ad hoc news conference at the LAPD headquarters because the stories are swirling about this knife that was found at the O.J. Simpson estate.

Here's what he confirmed for us. That it's been about a month since the LAPD as had this knife in its possession. It came from a citizen, but there were two citizens involved in this find, one was a construction worker who was working on a demolition at O.J. Simpson's former Rockingham Estate in the Brentwood area of Los Angeles. That person apparently turned over that knife to an LAPD officer. Whether that officer was retired at that time or not is still in question. But that officer is retired now. Something else we don't know, how long ago did this happen? There have

been stories that it has been years, but the detective who gave that news conference said that is actually part of identifying whether this is actually a hoax or not.

So we know that the construction worker handed the knife over to this detective who was working an actual job, but not officially on the force at that moment. Then we know that this motor officer handed it over to the LAPD all within the last month.

And we also know this, as if we'd forgotten, this case, according to the LAPD, is not called the O.J. Simpson case. This is called the Nicole Brown Simpson Ron Goldman case. And it is still a double homicide investigation. It is still an open case. They leave these open until there's a conviction or something to lead that the case is proven. This one, according to the LAPD, is certainly far from that.

So currently robbery and homicide investigators are in possession of this knife. They have it. They're sending it to the lab for forensic analysis, which will include serology, DNA analysis and hair sampling as well. Not to suggest that there were hair samples connected to that knife, but this is all pro forma.

As far as this officer who may have had this knife for some time before turning it over to active officers, it is unclear as to whether he will be criminally charged in connection with this and it's also unclear whether there will be administrative charges against him because we don't know at this time whether he was still a part of the force. He is not currently now part of the force.

I want to bring in Tom Lange who was the lead detective in the O.J. Simpson murder case. He also wrote a book about the case called "evidence dismissed."

Detective Lange, I know you're retired now, but I'm sure that this case haunts you, as it does so many. What do you make of this news today of a knife being discovered and being is the possession of the LAPD?

TOM LANGE, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE IN O.J. SIMPSON CASE: Well, these things continue to happen from time to time. I think you have to try to keep this in perspective. This knife apparently was recovered some 18 years ago around the time where several other knives in and around the properties were recovered and turned over by people. The circumstances here, this initial recovery, are unclear. We don't know what happened. I mean it's - we're talking about something that happened 18 years ago. I mean where do you begin?

The LAPD has it. They'll check to see if the - what type of knife we have. They'll see if it's dimensionally consistent with the wounds on the victims, which is very important. Of course they'll check for any fiber evidence or prints on it, DNA, these types of things. Take the handle off, completely strip it down and see if there's anything at all of evidentiary value. If it is, then they'll go from there.

The reality, however, is, is that these things have been happening for some time. That there are many, many knives that have been turned over. And, again, we just don't know at this point, until they get into this and they do all of these various tests and then they take it from there.

[12:29:48] BANFIELD: Detective Lange, I do want to ask you this. I know that this is sort of - this has been a case that has been talked about, argued, fought over. It split the country for quite some time. I think it still splits factions of the country. And it was hard on the LAPD as well. You took a hammering in that courtroom, the officers accused of jury rigging evidence, planting evidence. The officers accused of racism