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Democrats Hold Fiery Debate In Flint On Sunday Night; Ted Cruz Edges Closer To Donald Trump's Delegate Count; Nancy Reagan Dies At 94 From Heart Failure; Joint Military Drills Between U.S. And South Korea Started A Few Hours Ago Despite Threats From North Korea. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired March 07, 2016 - 0:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour: Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton clash over trade, jobs, guns and race, in one of the most broken cities in the U.S.
Joint military exercises, like this, between South Korea and the United States prompt nuclear threats from Kim Jong-Un.
And, a deadly day in the (inaudible) off the (inaudible) coast, as dozens of refugees drown; while many who have made the crossing are bottlenecked in a growing humanitarian crisis.
Hello, everybody; great to have you with us. I'd like to welcome our viewers all around the world. I'm John Vause; NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.
Two days ahead of the U.S. presidential primary in Michigan, Hillary Clinton Bernie Sanders squared off in a feisty debate in the city of Flint. They argued over free trade and jobs, gun control and Wall Street, but they did agree on one thing, the need for urgent action to end the water crisis in Flint. For two years now the city's tap water has been contaminated with high levels of lead from corroding pipes, leading to a rash of ill health and economic problems for residents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What is more important than the health and well-being of the people, particularly children? It is raining lead in Flint, and the state is derelict in not coming forward with the money that is required.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The governor of this state should understand that his dereliction of duty was irresponsible. He should resign.
CLINTON: I agree; the governor should resign or be recalled.
SANDERS: You are paying three times more for poisoned water than I'm paying in Burlington, Vermont for clean water. First thing you do is, you say people are not paying a water bill for poisoned water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Okay, not a lot of differences there between the candidates on that issue. Our Senior Political Analyst, Ron Brownstein, is with us here.
Okay, so this is interesting. because they were kind of, you know, there was no light really between them on the issue of Flint. Compare that to the Republican debate just a few days ago, in Detroit, not far from Flint, it was, what, 90 minutes before there was even a question on the water crisis in Flint.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, my overwhelming feeling watching this debate, really, after spending the last several days on the Republicans, was these candidates are running for presidents of different countries. I mean, the space between not only the policy positions but policy concerns, what they're talking about, Marco Rubio was almost utterly, the one question about (inaudible) he was dismissive. Saying hey, it's not a republican party. Both parties have complicity. Well, no secret,
right? I mean, big whoop.
VAUSE: And then he called for (inaudible, cross talk) the EPA.
BROWNSTEIN: And, look, this is a failure of government as complete and as comprehensive and really as horrific as we have seen in many years, at every level, particularly the state but also the EPA, the federal EPA, you know, failed to deal with the crisis adequately and the dismissive kind of -- it just simply hasn't come up - there are so many - you know -- and think about how much the discussion there was tonight about kind of a racial inequity in America or about criminal justice reform and then think about the republican debate and their concerns are about kind of ISIS and terrorist infiltration and immigration.
It really is two sides of the same coin, really. I think in both ways the party and country, above all in this election, are grappling with what is the American identity at a time when we are living through the most profound demographic age since the Melting Pot era of the 20th Century, but it is filtering into each party in a radically different way and that was, above all, I think, on display tonight.
VAUSE: Okay, well, this was a fiery debate, a lot fiery than we've seen in the past, at least by democrat standard.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
VAUSE: But it did -
BROWNSTEING: Substantive, but fiery.
VAUSE: Exactly, it went down to the old fault lines though. Senator Sanders going after Secretary Clinton on Wall Street and free trade. This was one of the exchanges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: You know, when a company decides to leave, like Nabisco is leaving, and they've gotten tax benefits from Chicago and Illinois to stay there, I'm going to claw back those benefits. They're going to have to pay them back if they're leaving a place that actually invested in them.
SANDERS: I'm very glad, Anderson, that Secretary Clinton has discovered religion on this issue -
[Applause]
SANDERS: -- but it is too late. Secretary Clinton supported virtually every one of these disastrous trade agreements written by corporate America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And to further (inaudible), and Hillary Clinton spent a lot of time defending big business and her husband, President Bill Clinton's -
BROWNSTEIN: (Inaudible, cross talk) 1990s.
VAUSE: -- record of the '90s.
BROWNSTEIN: You know what was really striking? I mean, first of all, there was a real urgency to this debate, for good reason. I mean, Michigan is Bernie Sanders' best, and maybe his last, chance to break this pattern and this narrative where he simply cannot compete in all the big, diverse states because he is losing roughly 85-percent of African-American voters, which is what has been his result in almost every state so far, and was the result in the poll, by the way, today in Michigan, NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll.
[00:05:02] So there was a real urgency on his part. It had a kind of Battle of the Bulge moment. But, you're right, I mean, so much of the debate not only on trade but also on the crime bill from 1994, the welfare reform bill of 1996, all things that I covered in great detail in the Bill Clinton Administration, and it's a reflection of how much the democratic coalition changed since his day. Bill Clinton was focused on swing voters and purple America. The democratic coalition is much more liberal since then, as many of those blue-collar whites anchor the conservative end of it have moved in to the Republican party and they are the voters, in many ways, fueling the Donald Trump phenomenon. So it was a striking moment. By the way, 24 years ago next week, Bill Clinton went to Michigan and defended free trade in a GM plant. Quite a contrast to Hillary Clinton tonight.
VAUSE: Times have changed. You talked about the differences in these parties but there is a number of cross-over areas and we saw that on display tonight. Corporate welfare, Bernie Sanders, a policy position which sounded a lot like Senator Ted Cruz from the Republican Party, who is a member of the Tea Party, and Anderson Cooper put that to Bernie Sanders?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN DEBATE MODERATOR: Senator Sanders, you are the only member of the Democratic caucus to vote -
SANDERS: Right.
COOPER: -- against it. You are agreeing with Senator Ted Cruz on this. Why is he right and democrats wrong?
SANDERS: Well, let me tell you: I didn't want to break the bad news -
[Laughter]
SANDERS: -- Democrats are not always right. Democrats have often supported corporate welfare. Democrats have supported disastrous trade agreements but on this issue, I do not believe in corporate welfare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Okay. Yes; this was one of those moments before, you know, Bernie Sanders seemed to be agitated and he essentially forced to defend why he didn't support the auto bailout, which was obviously -- is very popular in Michigan.
BROWNSTEIN: Right; and, you know, it looked as though there was going to be more opportunity for this kind of left, right convergence on these kind of the idea of corporate welfare. There have been some places where the left and right have come together, in some cases, around the trade deals. It really hasn't panned out to be as much of a legislative force in Washington.
But it was -- it was kind of a mixed bag for Bernie Sanders. On the one hand allowing him to make the case against Hillary Clinton on trade -- and by the way, in polling, the democratic coalition is now more supportive of free trade than the republican coalition, not necessarily in Michigan but overall it is striking that so many of the party leaders have retreated from it but he could do that. On the other hand, he was in a very exposed position on the auto bailout.
VAUSE: It's funny because the Republicans talking about a 45-percent trade tariff and the democrats talking about free trade. We talked about the differences these parties and the differences in these debates. That came up tonight as well and both candidates, on that stage, highlighted the differences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: We have our differences and we get into vigorous debate about issues, but compare the substance of this debate with what you saw on the republican stage last week.
[Cheers and Applause}
SANDERS: Now we are, if elected president, going to invest a lot of money into mental health; and when you watch these republican debates, you know why we need to invest in mental health.
[Laughter, Cheers and Applause}
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: We should add that Senator Sanders has received criticism on social media for bringing mental health into a punchline, but the bigger picture here is that you have climate change, education, healthcare, gun reform on the democrats and for the republicans' national security, immigration and ISIS if you can be the toughest guy on the stage.
BROWNSTEIN: Look, our politics has evolved two a point where we have two mirror image coalitions. You have a democratic coalition that's younger, more diverse. Over 45% of votes in 2012 came from minority voters, non-white voters, more urbanized, more secular. A republican coalition that is older, still 90-percent white, heavily nonurban, three-quarters of republican voters are white Christians, the same share as for American society over all in 1984. So what you are seeing in this election really are the priorities of two utterly divergent Americas and difficulty we are going to face when one of these sides wins in finding kind after unified agenda to move forward on. It really does feel as though they are running for president of two different countries.
VAUSE: It really does. Stay with us because we're going to talk the republicans now.
Republican voters in Puerto Rico have given Senator Marco Rubio his second primary win, that's all 23 delegates. Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory and while they can vote in the primary race they are not allowed to vote in the general election. Senator Rubio is now focused on his home state of Florida, which votes next week. 99 delegates are up for grabs there.
Meantime, Rubio's Republican rivals pick up additional delegates on Super Saturday. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz won two races each. Cruz took Maine and Kansas. Trump won Louisiana, as well as Kentucky. Let's look at the delegate count: and Trump is leading Cruz by 87, Marco Rubio has 149 delegates, including that win in Puerto Rico.
Okay, let's go back to Ron. Okay, so this was a really terrible weekend for Marco Rubio. Do you think his comments, taking on Donald Trump, trying to get into the gutter, if you like, with Donald Trump, did that hurt him?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I think it did hurt him. I think the bigger problem, as we talked about before, was this kind of betwixt and between. He's got a little bit of everything across the party, but not enough of anything. I think it was a fascinating weekend. It showed Donald Trump is not taking [00:10:01] that next leap. He's not moving into another gear. Having won the kind of states he's won already, normally you would be seeing both voters and elected officials consolidating, you'd see support moving in the 40's. Not happening. Not clear whether Ted Cruz is broad enough to take him on. Not clear whether Marco Rubio has deep enough support to take him on. And so, it kind of goes forward, I think, with an enormous amount of uncertainty about what happens next.
VAUSE: Very quickly, Ted Cruz - it sounds like it's Ted Cruz and Donald Trump --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
VAUSE: -- because he had a very good weekend. One commentator wrote this, that "the Republicans now face a choice between a narcissistic billionaire who keeps saying awful things, and a narcissistic Senator who keeps doing awful things." Is that where the GOP's at?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes; or what Melissa Graham sent me: would you rather be hung or shot? Look, I think the real question for Ted Cruz, his best states are largely behind him, the heavily evangelical states. He hasn't shown consistently the ability to win voters who are not evangelicals. He's gotten above 18-percent with them in only one state, his home state of Texas. Until he can do that, and the test is going to come real soon in Michigan, and then after that in Ohio, Illinois, Florida, can he broaden beyond that evangelical beachhead? If not, he simply is not going to get that close to Donald Trump in the end.
VAUSE: Ron, great to have you on. Always good to speak with you; thank you.
Okay, some sad news now; the former U.S. First Lady, Nancy Reagan, has died from heart failure. This happened Sunday. Now a close friend of the Reagan's said there would be no President Ronald Reagan without Nancy. Suzanne Malveaux has more on Mrs. Reagan's life, legacy and her famous devotion to the man show called Ronnie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT, voiceover: Ronnie and Nancy; it was truly an American love story.
NANCY REAGAN, FIRST LADY, UNITED STATES: I can't imagine marriage being any other way but the way that Ronnie's and mine was; and I guess that's unusual.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING SHOW": Little bit of a miracle too, right? Something in the gods brought you together.
REAGAN: Mm-hmm; fortunately.
MALVEAUX: A relationship not based on politics or power but simply admiration and affection.
REAGAN: Together we're going a long, long way.
MALVEAUX: Born Ann Francis Robins in New York City, she lived and grew up in Chicago; known by the nickname, Nancy. As an adult she headed West to Hollywood to become an actress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She signed with MGM; she became part of that family. MALVEAUX: At first Nancy Davis was busy, but in 1949 she found her name on a list of suspected communist sympathizers in danger of being black listed from the business. The person on the list turned out to be another actress with the same name but Nancy wanted reassurance. She turned to her friend for help, who set up a meeting with the president of the Screen Actors Guild; a dashing leading man named Ronald Reagan, and thus began one of Hollywood's and Washington's most enduring romances. in fact, one of her last screen appearances was playing opposite her future husband in a movie called "Hell Cats of the Navy."
Soon after, they wed. They raised a family, including their children, Patty and Ron, Jr. and her husband's two children, Maureen and Michael, from his previous marriage to Jane Wyman.
In 1966, Ronald Reagan began a second career, as full-time politician and elected governor of the nation's largest state, California. Nancy was always at his side and always gazing at him with that loving stare.
KEN DUBERSTEIN, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, REAGAN ADMINISTRATION: It was for real, that wasn't an actress. The adoration that they had for each other --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulate yourself.
REAGAN: I don't remember thinking anything except my gosh, here he is and he's president.
KING: My Ronnie?
REAGAN: My Ronnie.
MALVEAUX: After her husband's presidential inauguration, Nancy Reagan's signature was appearing in designer gowns, especially red ones. She also redecorated the White House, both moves drawing heavy criticism, but she had her own special grit, especially after an assassin's bullet struck her husband. She never left the hospital. Few knew then how close the president came to dying, just a couple of months into his first term.
REAGAN: Yes.
KING: Touch and go?
REAGAN: Yes, it was. I almost lost him.
MALVEAUX: She also battled breast cancer and survived. Through it all, she had many admirers and some critics too, chief among them, her husband's former Chief of Staff, Donald Regan, who wrote a blistering book about her, including the fact she sometimes consulted an astrologer.
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN: He's chosen to attack my wife and I don't look kindly upon that. MALVEAUX: She also used her influence to launch an anti-drug program
which was reduced it a simple phrase; when a young girl asked for advice and the First Lady said simply, just say no.
REAGAN: I didn't mean that was a whole answer, obviously; but it did serve a purpose.
[00:15:02] MALVEAUX: After she and her husband left Washington, she needed her stamina more than ever, after Ronald Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
REAGAN: It is sad to see somebody you love, and have been married for so long, and you can't share memories; that's the sad part.
MALVEAUX: Through it all, she never lost her optimism.
KING: Do you ever feel like fate treated you badly?
REAGAN: No. No; when you balance it all out, I've had a pretty fabulous life.
MALVEAUX: In 2004, President Ronald Reagan died. In one of her final public appearances, the celebration of the centennial Ronald Reagan's birth, she said -
REAGAN: I know that Ronnie would be thrilled, and is thrilled, to have all of you share in this 100th birthday. It doesn't seem possible, but that's what it is.
MALVEAUX: Nancy Reagan, a strong woman in her own right, remembered also for her steady, unflinching devotion to her husband, both in and out of the spotlight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Mrs. Reagan was 94 years old and during her life she was interviewed many times on the "Larry King Show" right here on CNN; and the legendary broadcaster, Larry King, joins us on the phone.
Larry, thank you for being with us. I know you're not feeling particularly well. You've got some bronchitis. So very much appreciate you joining us. I know that you were friends with Mrs. Reagan. Did she ever share
with you about what she thought about the current Republican race for the White House, what she thinks, or what she thought, rather, about the GOP and the state it's in?
KING: The last time we spoke, a couple months ago, she was, I guess to put it best, embarrassed. She said, do you believe this, you know, with a question mark, as if so say, I can't believe this. I didn't go into too much detail with her. She was rather frail at the end, but she was not happy with the way things were going. It was obvious to me, and Nancy never held back with me.
VAUSE: I know that many people may be surprised to learn of the influence that the First Lady had during her husband's administration, in particular on issues like foreign policy and negotiating with the Soviets.
KING: She had a great deal -- in fact, I don't think we've ever had the treaty with Gorbachev and nuclear arms treaty, I don't think we'd have had it without her. She pushed it. She was for it. A lot of people in the administration were not for it, but she was wholeheartedly for it and she was the strength behind Ronald Reagan. I mean, he was a person of his own right but they were a team and someone said the other day, when I think of a marriage, I think of Nancy and Ronald Reagan. They complemented each other. She was a strong advocate of everything Reagan.
VAUSE: And she seemed to be a very strong advocate, even after her husband passed away, she was fiercely loyal to him, pretty much up until the day she died.
KING: Yes; and then she became quite an advocate herself on behalf of Alzheimer's disease, fighting for all those helpless. She got involved very much in the gun bill. She supported the Brady Amendment. I was there the day she and Ron came back to the hospital that he was taken when he was shot. They came out and supported the Brady bill where everyone in America should have their -- should we know who buys what guns.
She was often against the right wing of her party on domestic issues. Then when the Alzheimer's thing occurred and her husband got it, she became a strong fighter, supporting for more funds for its fight. She was a hell of a lady. She was a good friend. She was a great friend to my wife. My wife was mother of the year a couple years ago at Cedar Sinai here and she presented her with that award. She was a good friend. we saw quite a bit of her.
She was very frail at the end. She was in a wheelchair, but that indomitable spirit was always there. It was sad to see the way I think she viewed the party at the end, the way things were going. But she lived a great life. She had -- couldn't argue with the Nancy Reagan life.
[00:20:02] VAUSE: Absolutely. Larry, it's quite the honor to ask you a question, or some questions for a change. You've asked me plenty over the years. So thank you very much for being with us and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
KING: Thank you. Good talking with you.
VAUSE: Cheers. Short break here; when we come back, North Korea making bold threats on nuclear action. We'll tell you what has the hermit kingdom on edge in a moment. Plus, more than two dozen refugees drown off the Turkish coast as European leaders getting ready to discuss how to try and stop the migrant crisis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Joint military drills between the United States and South Korea started a few hours ago despite North Korea threatening nuclear action. The hermit kingdom says it will launch an indiscriminate nuclear strike responding to what it considers aggression by its enemies. State media is quoting a national defense spokesman in North Korea saying a strike would show the country's military might. These drills are set to continue all wait until the end of April.
Paula Hancocks is live this hour in Seoul. So Paula, has there been any impact on these joint military operations after that threat made by the North Koreans?
[00:25:02] PAULA HANCOCKSS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, via satellite: No, not at this point, John, and I don't think we should expect any impact. The U.S. and South Korea consistently say the exercises are defensive in nature. Pyongyang always sees them as dress rehearsal for an invasion but Washington and Seoul deny that saying they happen every year; they are defensive and they actually take many months to set up and plan. So they are not reacting to any particular geopolitical incidents, if you like.
So certainly we don't expect the drills to change in any way. They are massive drills. There's about 300,000 South Korean soldiers. There's about 17,000 U.S. soldiers. They are very large. They're on land. They're in the air and at sea; and very comprehensive drills between these two allies and without fail, every single year, this does annoy Pyongyang. Obviously the rhetoric is even higher at the beginning of these drills this year because there has been so much tension over the past couple of months.
VAUSE: Well that then leads to the question about the threats of indiscriminate nuclear strikes. What sort of capability do the North Koreans have to make good on that threat?
HANCOCKS: We've heard this threat before, certain when tensions are particularly high. Back in 2013, for example, there were threats of nuclear war against Washington, against Seoul. The assumption is that obviously this is to be taken seriously as North Korea is threatening these kinds of things, but it's not considered possible at this point. The assumption is, and it depends on who you speak to, but some think tanks assume that North Korea has between 10 to 16 nuclear weapons.
One worst case scenario (Inaudible) North a website which covers North Korea closely, said that by 2020 they may have 100 nuclear weapons. But the fact is, having these nuclear weapons is one thing; having the capability to militarizing the warhead and putting the warhead onto a rocket and then firing them at another country is something very different. The assumption was, on February 7th, when they had that satellite launch, that they were testing the rockets, testing a missile; but, of course, they haven't tested reentry. So at this point it is assumed they are unable it carry-out that kind of threat, if, in fact, they wanted to.
But the wide assumption is this is mainly bluster. This is the rhetoric you would expect this time of year and Pyongyang is reacting to not only these drills but also the recent U.N. sanctions just last week. John?
VAUSE: Yes, terrifying nonetheless; Paula, thank you. Paula Hancocks is live this hour in Seoul. We will take a short break here. When we come back, another tragedy adding to Europe's overwhelming migrant crisis. The latest on the capsized boat where dozens of people drowned while looking for a safe haven.
Plus, a desperate situation in Greece, where tens of thousands of migrants remain stranded.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:31:29] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching "CNN NEWSROOM," live from Los Angeles; I'm John Vause. We will check the headlines: (HEADLINES)
Now to the growing migrant crisis. EU leaders will meet with Turkish officials Monday and talk about border controls and how to manage the influx of migrants into Europe. The summit comes after at least 25 more refugees were killed. A Turkish news agency reports their boat capsized off Turkey's western coast Sunday. At least 15 people were rescued. Meanwhile thousands of migrants and refugees remain stranded at the Greece/Macedonia border as several surrounding countries refuse to allow many of them to cross their borders. More than 131,000 people entered Europe in the first two months of this year. The U.N. refugee agency is warning the continent is facing an imminent humanitarian crisis.
Many in Europe believe Turkey is the key to slowing the recent surge of refugees and hours from now the EU will hold an emergency meeting with Turkish officials and there are reports that a deal might just be in the works. For more on that, Mark Yarnell from Refugees International joins us from Washington. Mark, the big push it seems is to try and get the Turkish government to try and stop the tens of thousands of migrants who are traveling mostly by boat from Turkey to Greece. How will that deal work?
MARK YARNELL, SENIOR ADVOCATE, REFUGEES INTERNATIONAL: Well what is particularly concerning about this deal is that it doesn't seem to aim at improving the conditions and support for refugees who are fleeing the war in Syria but it actually aims at encouraging mechanisms for Turkey to limit the flow of refugees from Turkey to Greece and then on through Europe. So it is really, I think, aimed more at prevention than support. As we are seeing, no matter what prevention measures are put in place, the war in Syria continues and people are still fleeing in hundreds of thousands to Europe's shores through Greece.
VAUSE: Part of that deal, I read somewhere, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Turkey would actually take back some of the migrants, the economic migrants from the non-Syrian migrants; is that your understanding?
YARNELL: Yes; and, look, to be clear, I think that for people who don't have the right to asylum, don't have valid refugee claims, then it is perfectly reasonable if someone arrives if Europe and they don't meet the necessary benchmarks to receive refugee status, then it's reasonable they would be returned to the place from which they left. But, at the moment, we have [00:35:02] about 90-percent of refugees arriving in Europe are from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. So the vast majority, I think, will have legitimate claim to refugee status. VAUSE: And you talked about the appalling conditions on the ground right now and, you know, what these people are actually going through. If you look at numbers, they do seem to be overwhelming. One report says another 100,000 refugees expected to arrive in Greece by the end of the month. Athens is warning of a humanitarian crisis. When you look at those numbers, that seems that is no exaggeration.
YARNELL: No; and that's the thing, as countries in Europe and along the Balkan route from Greece into Western Europe, as there's been measures to increase border patrols and limit movement the numbers have only increased, of people arriving in Europe. I think there's a real anxiety, especially there's many people whose families are separated. So there's the husband, for example, of a Syrian family in Germany and now the women and children are trying to get together and move through to unite with their family. And so, when there's news about increased restrictions, I think it only increases the motivation it is either now or never, even if conditions aren't safe and even if you have to work through smugglers and even if there is a chance of dying on that Mediterranean coast.
VAUSE: So is there one single factor which is driving this recent surge? I thought the winter period was thought to be the more quiet period. We're expecting these kind of numbers, or something like them, you know, over summer when the weather was better.
YARNELL: Yes; I, quite frankly, I think that just as the war in Syria continues and there is less and less hope for refugees who have already fled to return there, there is sort of a realization that there is a need to seek a better life elsewhere. I do think that as the restrictions are imposed, people think, you know, even if the seas are dangerous, either I can do it now or maybe if I wait it is too late.
Additionally, smugglers are very active in facilitating these pathways and when the demand is high, the rates go up and many people can't afford it. During winter months the rates go down; so people who may not have been able to travel and couldn't afford it during the summer, now they are paying these cheaper rates but it is more dangerous because seas are more dangerous.
VAUSE: Gosh, it's a cold and brutal calculation, isn't it, that same people make.
YARNELL: Exactly.
VAUSE: It's tough. Mark, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.
YARNELL: Thanks; thanks for covering this.
VAUSE: A short break here; when we come back, we head it China and new plans there to try and growing the slowing economy. We'll have the details on how investors are reacting in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:40:05] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. (HEADLINES) Although his plans were laid out this weekend in Beijing, as China's parliament kicked off is annual session in the capital, the country's top economic planner said the economy is not heading for a hard landing, outlining plans to create at least 50 million more jobs and to restructure some inefficient industries.
Let's go to Matt Rivers now, live in Beijing with more on the market reaction and also the annual meeting. Matt, as we look at the significance of China actually putting out a GDP growth forecast; they haven't done something like that for 20 years, so why are they doing it now?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is very significant, John, that you mention, first time in 20 yeasts; first time since 1995 and what the Chinese government is doing is giving itself a little bit of wiggle room after what we saw last year. Last year the growth rate was set at a very firm 7-percent, and it came in at 6.9-percent; so it didn't meet the expectation. That's something the government does not want to happen again.
This comes at a time when the broader economy is slowing down. Manufacturing numbers are down, export numbers of down. We actually went to a city in southern China last week, called Dong Guang (ps), it's right in the Pearl River Delta, which is kind of the manufacturing heartland of China, and that's a city that's seen thousands of factories shut down over the years as the economy starts to slows down. So by setting that range in growth, the government giving itself a little bit of wiggle room in the face of a broader economic slowdown. It is worth noting that 6.5-percent growth, John, something -- a figure a lot of countries would certainly love it see themselves.
VAUSE: Yes, but obviously 6.5-percent anywhere else in the world, or in the United States or Europe would be going gang busters, not so quite the case in China. Many analysts and investors are actually looking for the government of Beijing to be a bit more aggressive here and maybe increase the budget deficit to a higher percentage point; spend a little more, get the economy going; and that's raising speculation that maybe the economy is in bigger trouble than we've been led to believe.
RIVERS: Sure; and that's something that we have heard here in China. Many analysts suggesting that they would like to see more aggressive action by the Government, and that just comes along with a lot of other concerns that investors have here in China. You can look at the property market here; many analysts saying there might be a bit of a bubble that's been created lately because of an overcapacity issue. You could look at these bloated state-owned enterprises that need to go through some structural reforms and analyst are saying that is not happening quick enough. So there is a lot of things that are causing investors to worry here in China, not the least of which would be a slower growth rate, this 6.5 to 7-percent mark like the government just set.
VAUSE: Very quickly, what about the concerns of social unrest if they don't keep the economy growing at 8-percent and the unemployment ticks up? What are they saying about that from a political point of view?
RIVERS: Yes, absolutely; they just talked about -- we saw in state media over the last several weeks or so, that 1.8 million workers at some of the state-owned enterprises are set to be laid-off over the next -- or in the next year or so. That's what we will see as a result of the restructuring. So still a lot of growing pains ahead as the economy begins to transition.
VAUSE: Yes, I guess the question now is will they see it through will they go back to their old ways of spending on infrastructure, on projects they don't actually need, which they've been doing for the last ten years? Do they have the political will to continue on with the reforms? Matt, thank you.
Matt Rivers live for us there in Beijing.
And thank you for watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles; I'm John Vause. Please stay with us; "World Sport" is up next. I will be back with another hour of news from around the world. You're watching CNN, live from Los Angeles.
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