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Democrats Stump In Michigan After Fiery Debate; Democrats Spar Over Auto Industry Bailout; Democrats Fight For Votes In Michigan; Sanders Fights For Voters In Michigan; Sanders' Campaign Manager Speaks; Republican Presidential Race; Democratic Presidential Race. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired March 07, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with the race for a white -- race for the White House here in the United States, the fight for votes in Michigan. Both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, they're campaigning in the state today after a fiery debate you saw here on CNN last night.

Clinton and Sanders faced off in Flint, Michigan. The water crisis was front and center. But Clinton also went after Sanders over the bailout of the auto industry here in the United States and that led to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I voted to save the auto industry. He voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh.

CLINTON: I think that is a pretty big difference.

SANDERS: Well, if you are talking about the Wall Street bailout, where some of your friends destroyed this economy.

CLINTON: You know --

SANDERS: Excuse me, I'm talking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Fiery exchange there. The Democrats hold primaries tomorrow in Michigan and Mississippi. Thirty-six delegates are at stake in Mississippi, 130 in Michigan.

Here's a look at where the delegate count stands -- the delegates' count stands right now. Clinton has 1,147, that includes 471 so- called super delegates. Those are elected leaders, party officials. Sanders has a total of 498 pledged delegates -- pledged and super delegates. By the way, he has only 22 super delegates in that total. The Michigan primary will be a test for the Sanders campaign. Can he win in a state with a more diverse population? For Clinton, it's a chance to rack up more delegates and to move closer to locking up the nomination.

Our Senior Washington Correspondents Jeff Zeleny and Joe Johns, they're covering the candidates for us today. Jeff, I'll start with you. What are you hearing from Clinton on the campaign trail today? What's her message?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Secretary Clinton is campaigning in Grand Rapids, Michigan today. Just at this hour, she was touring a manufacturing plant earlier, and she'll be making her way to Detroit later today.

Her message really is one that we heard at that debate last night, talking about how she has plans for the future. But she really is pointing out that she has real solutions. Her plans, last night at the debate, were certainly more detailed than Bernie Sanders' plans. He kept coming back to Wall Street, and her campaign believes that that is why he's a single-issue candidate.

But, Wolf, there is something playing on the radio here today in Michigan that picks up exactly where she left off last night and that is on the auto bailout. Let's take a listen to a bit of that new ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America's auto companies asked for help, and president Obama came through. Now, in Sunday's debate, we learn only one candidate for president supported him, Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, Wolf, that is potentially a very potent message here in the final 24 hours before the Michigan primary. A little bit of a fact check here. Senator Sanders voted for the auto bailout. One of the votes, at the very end of December of 2008, at the very end of the Bush administration, if you will.

But in January of 2009, when it was voted on again as part of the larger financial bailout, the part (ph) bailout, he voted against it in that sense. So, he supported Michigan, the auto bailout, but he ended up voting against it because he did not like the larger help to the financial sector there.

But, Wolf, I was struck by -- he seemed a little bit unprepared for that moment last night at the debate. So, I think in the final closing hours of this Michigan primary campaign, her auto bailout message is a good one for her -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And she reminded everyone that the Democratic senators who were then at the time, they were appealing to go ahead and vote for that legislation, even though there were other money --

ZELENY: Right. BLITZER: -- for big business corporations, for Wall Street or whatever. Without that money, the auto industry, whether Chrysler or General Motors, in the state of Michigan and elsewhere, perhaps could have collapsed.

ZELENY: Absolutely, Wolf. And that is, of course, the life blood of the Michigan economy. And that seems like such a long time ago. But we all remember very well when the White House was trying to get all the Democratic senators on board here. This was litigated in the Obama re-election campaign with Mitt Romney who, of course, is from Michigan as well. And he was not in favor of the bailout. He said it did not actually help create jobs in Michigan.

So, there are, you know, some antidotes and statistics on both sides of this here.

But the short hand of it, with Hillary Clinton saying that he did not help the auto industry, I do not think is a good closing message for Bernie Sanders going into a state where he really hopes to win. He really hopes to do well here coming off a big weekend of winning Nebraska, Kansas and Maine. He really would like to plant his flag here in Michigan where the economy is still central. We'll see if he can do that tomorrow -- Wolf.

[13:05:09] BLITZER: Yes, well, let's get Joe Johns into this as well. Joe, what are they saying, the Sanders campaign, about this whole issue of the auto bailout?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they're really trying to fix that problem that arose last night in the debate. And the Bernie Sanders' campaign is hitting it very hard. He was in Kalamazoo today. He called the characterization that he voted against the auto bailout dishonest distortion. So, very strong words there.

And trying to make clear what we are talking about here is the troubled asset relief fund, the $700 billion bill to bail out the banks and the automobile bailout was sort of folded into that bill. Very complicated stuff to try to describe. The people on the ground here in Michigan who know that if they didn't get the auto bailout, they might very well not have jobs, at this point. So, they're trying to correct the record on that issue calling it a dishonest distortion.

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders in Kalamazoo earlier today also talking just a little more about his requirement or his request for Hillary Clinton to release transcripts of her speeches to Wall Street. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I will release all of the transcripts of the speeches I gave behind closed doors or open doors to Wall Street. Here they are.

If there is a large turnout, we are going to win here in Michigan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, this is Dearborn, Michigan where I am right now, Wolf. Large crowd showing up here at the Ford Arts Center to see Bernie Sanders in just a little while. I can tell you, huge lines outside which has been characteristic of his entire campaign. The Bernie Sanders campaign asserting again that if they get large turnout in Michigan on Tuesday, they expect to do much better than the polls are indicating -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll know soon enough. Joe Johns, Jeff Zeleny, guys, thanks very much.

For more now on the Bernie Sanders' strategy, in Michigan and beyond, let's bring in Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver. He's joining us from Detroit. Jeff, thanks very much for joining us. Well, let me get your immediate --

JEFF WEAVER, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: -- explanation. This auto bailout issue, clearly in a state like Michigan which is so dependent on jobs in the auto industry, how's the senator -- Senator Sanders handling this on this day today?

WEAVER: Well, Wolf, let me just say this. You know, I think it was Jeff who mentioned that maybe he wasn't quite prepared for this attack. And let me tell you why, Wolf, because, you know, in this campaign, there's been some, you know, hard-hitting discussion of issues.

But at a certain level, there's been a modicum of honesty that has existed in the course of the debate. And I'm not going to use the L word here. But I have to say that the characterization of the Clinton campaign and the candidate herself, regretfully, on this issue of the auto rescue package -- I'm not going to call it a bailout. The auto rescue package because, look, the auto industry was being destroyed by the fact that people couldn't get credit and couldn't buy cars. But her characterization is just not honest, Wolf. And I think people have to really look at this.

Bernie Sanders, in fact, voted for the stand-alone auto rescue package. Is it true that he did not support the giant, mammoth bailout for Wall Street that Secretary Clinton did? That is absolutely true. And, as you know, those interests are now pouring money into her Super Pac. A Super Pac that she said she was going to use against Republicans, which she has now spent millions and millions of dollars against Senator Sanders.

Again, something that was said that was not true. She said she wasn't going negative. She has a hitman named David Brock who works for another Super Pac with which her campaign coordinates, another not true. Now, this guy, David Brock has bought -- you know, Peter Daou was just on your show. Peter Daou now works for David Brock, because his Web site is now -- was purchased by David Brock. Again, not honest.

So, I think, Wolf, at the end of the day, when people say, do I believe Sanders or do I believe Hillary Clinton? They're going to come down on the side of believing Bernie Sanders, because Bernie Sanders, for decades, have stood by the people of Michigan to fight these disastrous trade deals that Hillary Clinton supported.

You know, when she was in India, --

BLITZER: But let me --

WEAVER: -- she said outsourcing had benefitted the United States. I don't know any community in Michigan or anywhere in the United States that has benefitted from outsourcing.

BLITZER: -- let's just clarify the auto bailout issue. The president of the United States, the new president at the time, President Obama, the Democratic senators in Michigan, the Democratic leadership in Michigan, even though there was a ton of money in that so-called TARP Bill for Wall Street bailouts and other bailouts, without passing that legislation, the auto industry in Michigan and elsewhere in the United States could have crumbled. That was the point she was trying to make. Sometimes in the world of real politic in Washington you got to go with what is the best of all worlds as opposed to the perfect.

WEAVER: Well, look, Wolf, I spent a lot of time working in that U.S. House and the U.S. Senate with Bernie Sanders. So, let me tell you something, a lot of the time what's passed off as real politic is really selling out to special interests.

[13:10:09] And let me tell you something, Bernie Sanders strongly supported the auto rescue package. He voted for it. He would've supported it again and again and again. And the fact that, you know, some people chose to marry it with Wall Street money that was many, many, many, many times of what was actually going to go to the -- to the auto industry.

I understand why the senators of Michigan here were fighting for it. But let me tell you something, there were a lot of people in the Congress for whom that was really about Wall Street and not about the auto industry.

And, you know, I find it ironic that Hillary Clinton's policies have cost literally 10s and 10s and 10s of thousands of jobs. And you look at Flint, Michigan. Eleven automobile related factories closed in Flint, Michigan. Detroit has schools that are falling apart because the tax space has been decimated by the loss of industrial jobs, all because of the policies that Hillary Clinton supported consistently throughout her career. Korea, (INAUDIBLE), most favored nation status with China, and over and over again.

And, now, you know, as the vice president said a couple months ago, you know, Hillary Clinton is really a sort of a Johnny come lately on this issue of income of equality and protecting middle class and working class people. And I hope that she doesn't get away with it here in Michigan.

BLITZER: You --

WEAVER: I hope that people see through the fact that she has not been standing with working class and middle class people.

BLITZER: One final question, Jeff, before I let you go.

WEAVER: Sure.

BLITZER: You've seen these most recently polls showing she's decisively ahead leading into the Michigan primary tomorrow. Is that what your internal numbers are showing you as well? There's a Monmouth poll that just came out a little while ago, about an hour or so ago, 55 percent for Hillary Clinton, 42 percent in Michigan for Bernie Sanders.

WEAVER: Well, "USA Today," Wolf, just had a poll out that showed a five-point difference. So, we think that we're closing here in Michigan or we'll closing strongly just like we did in all the other states. You know, we were behind nine points in Minnesota. The week before, we won that by digits. We were even in Colorado before. We won that by double digits. We were up in two -- in Kansas before we won that by 30 points.

So, we finished strongly because when people come out, young people, working people, people who don't normally participate in a political process, in large numbers, they vote for Senator Sanders. Because they know he is the candidate who is speaking honestly, that is believable, that they know, when he's in the White House, he can be trusted.

BLITZER: Jeff Weaver is the campaign manager for the Bernie Sanders campaign. Jeff, thanks very much for joining us.

WEAVER: My pleasure, Wolf, as always.

BLITZER: We're also going to hear from Hillary Clinton's campaign later this hour. We'll get its response to what we just heard and more.

Also coming up, Ted Cruz picks up some wins and some delegates over the weekend. Should the Trump campaign be seriously worried about losing some momentum?

And a leading House Democrat outlines a plan for how to beat ISIS. He's standing by to join us live.

[13:12:53]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:41] BLITZER: Donald Trump right now wrapping up a campaign stop in Concord, North Carolina, before heading to Mississippi later today. Cruz and Trump both want -- both are winning two states. They have won two states over the weekend. Cruz cut into Trump's delegate lead a little. Trump now has 389 delegates, with Cruz at 302. Marco Rubio's in third place with 149 after winning Puerto Rico decisively yesterday.

Tomorrow's a big day for the Republicans with 150 delegates up for grabs. Fifty-nine of those are coming from Michigan. Donald Trump is leading in the latest Monmouth University Michigan poll. He's got 36 percent support among likely primary voters against Ted Cruz 23 percent. John Kasich, who's been campaigning hard in Michigan, is at a close third right now with 21 percent. Marco Rubio downed (ph) only 13 percent.

I want to bring in Chris Frates, who's at the Trump event in North Carolina right now.

So what was his bottom line message today, Chris?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, his bottom line message has not changed. But what was so interesting to watch, Wolf, was that Donald Trump training most of his fire and insults on Ted Cruz. And, of course, that's no surprise. Ted Cruz having a very good Super Saturday, picking up Maine and Kansas. In fact, Donald Trump even making fun of Ted Cruz for picking up Maine, saying, well, of course, he was born in Canada, that's almost a home state for him.

But continued to talk about the politicians and the -- and lying Ted Cruz, saying Ted Cruz is a politician and he's going to lie to you. In fact, I want to give you one line that sounded a little bit new from Donald Trump today. He says, "Ted Cruz comes in Bible high and then he lies to you." So continuing to hit this theme that Ted Cruz is dishonest, that he can't be trusted, that he's the guy who's for the people, kind of tapping into that anti-establishment fever that we're seeing among Trump supporters. Also saving a little bit of insult for Marco Rubio, as he does, calling him a featherweight -- calling him a lightweight saying he's a scoundrel and a choker. Of course, Rubio picking up a big win in Puerto Rico with 23 delegates there.

But as you say, Wolf, the delegate race here is on. Donald Trump leading 389 delegates. Ted Cruz, though, not far behind with 302. Really hitting his message of, he's the only viable alternative to Donald Trump. And when you listen to Donald Trump, I think he's starting to get that as he trained most of his fire on Ted Cruz today.

Wolf.

BLITZER: Chris, where is Trump turning his attention next?

FRATES: So, Donald Trump is here in North Carolina and that's also talking about Florida a lot here as well, Wolf, and that's no mistake. On March 15th, North Carolina votes. So does Florida. Florida with 99 votes at stake. One of the winner take all states along with Ohio. That is huge for Donald Trump. If he can win here in Florida and if he can win in Ohio as well, that is going to be very, very big for Donald Trump.

Now, of course, Marco Rubio trying to stop Donald Trump in his home state of Florida with a big win there. The establishment also hoping that he can hold on and put the brakes on the Trump train. But certainly he has Rubio and Cruz in his sights, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, if Trump wins in both Florida and Ohio on March 15th, it looks like he's going to be in pretty good shape indeed. All right, thanks very much for that, Chris Frates. [13:20:03] Don't forget, this Thursday, the Republican presidential

candidates face off in a CNN debate in Florida. It's moderated by our own Jake Tapper. It starts at 8:30 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Up next, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton didn't hold back in last night's debate. Did either of them, though, change Michigan voters' minds?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am very glad, Anderson, that Secretary Clinton has discovered religion on this issue, but it's a little bit too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:01] BLITZER: During last night's Democratic presidential debate, CNN gave residents of Flint, Michigan, a voice to share their concerns with the candidates. Questions about the state's crime and economic problems were front and center. The debate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders did turn tense during an exchange about guns. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Well, you were essentially saying, what people are saying is that if somebody who is crazy or a criminal or a horrible person goes around shooting people, manufacturer of that gun should be held liable. And if that is your position, then what you are saying essentially, if that is the case as I understand it, it's not what Secretary Clinton is talking about, I agree with what she said, but if that is the case, than essentially your position is, there should not be any guns in America, period.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is -- that is like the NRA's position. No.

SANDERS: Now, I understand -- can I -- can I -- can I finish, please?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's discuss all of this and a lot more with our panel. Joining us, Jennifer Granholm is the former Democratic governor of Michigan. She's a senior adviser for Correct The Record, that's a Hillary Clinton super PAC. Also with us, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp. Scottie Nell Hughes is a chief political correspondent for USA Radio Networks. She's a Trump supporter. And Larry Cohen is a senior adviser for Bernie Sanders' campaign. He's a former president of the Communication Workers of America.

To all of you, thank you very much.

Larry, when did Senator Sanders decide to sort of turn up the attack level on Hillary Clinton? LARRY COHEN, SENIOR ADVISER, BERNIE 2016: I wouldn't say so much that

he's turning up the attack level as pointing out differences in the two campaigns on key issues like trade.

BLITZER: Is he is going to -- is he going to continue that strategy to go after her because earlier Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager, he wouldn't use the "l" word, liar or lying, but he clearly implied that Hillary Clinton was distorting Bernie Sanders' position during our debate last night.

COHEN: Well, I think this campaign is going to make it clear that there are differences. There are differences about Wall Street. There are differences on trade. There are differences about how central it is to protect manufacturing jobs. And that matters in Michigan and it matters in other key industrial states.

BLITZER: Governor Granholm, do you think Bernie Sanders' performance last night is going to help him? He's behind in the polls in your home state of Michigan right now. But what do you think? What's going to be the practical, political outcome of that debate in Michigan?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Well, I think she really did an amazing job and surprised a lot of people when she raised the fact that Bernie Sanders, when push came to shove, when the hard vote happened, he voted against the auto industry. And what that meant was that he is much more passionate about being anti-Wall Street than he is passionate about saving manufacturers in the United States in terms of investing in manufacturing and the auto industry, which is the backbone of the manufacturing economy. That was a surprise to people.

BLITZER: Were you -- Larry, go ahead. Quickly respond to that.

COHEN: Yes. Senator Clinton, actually as Secretary Clinton, bragged about her work on the Korea trade agreement. A total disaster for auto workers in Michigan and across the country. Imports from Korea have gone way up. The trade deficit has soared. As secretary of state she was a key author of the Transpacific Partnership. We begged the campaign to help us on Fast Track (ph) to stop it. Got no help. To this day no help convincing the Democrats who voted for Fast Track can now oppose TPP. The question is, what are you doing with your actions, Secretary Clinton, not your words in a presidential campaign?

BLITZER: All right, Governor Granholm, go ahead.

GRANHOLM: Yes, I've got to respond to this. I mean, first of all, on TPP, you've got to admit, Larry, I mean she is a cabinet member working for a president. You don't see any cabinet members coming out against your own president. What she has said is that she would take these trade agreements individually, one by one, evaluate them. I mean it's why she voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement.

Similarly, you guys keep raising NAFTA. She was the wife of the president. I mean is she going to -- can you imagine Nancy Reagan coming out against a major policy of her husband? Look at what she has said about NAFTA. She has said that it did not live up to the promise. That it should be renegotiated. She has said she's going to put in place a trade prosecutor. She's going to triple enforcement. She has got a clear agenda with respect to trade --

BLITZER: All right.

GRANHOLM: And that means that she's going to create jobs in America in a global economy a not facilitate the off shoring.

BLITZER: All right, I want to -- I want to move on and bring in S.E. -- S.E. into this conversation. Listen to this. This is a Sanders' remark on mental health in the debate last night, S.E. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: You know, we are, if elected president, going to invest a lot of money into mental health. And when you watch these Republican debates, you know why we need to invest in mental health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You probably know a Clinton campaign staffer later suggested Bernie Sanders went too far. Did he? Was it just in good humor? Was it a jab that was appropriate or not?

[13:29:57] S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I was not offended by this. I thought it was, you know, at a Democratic debate presumably in front of Democratic viewers and voters. I thought it was actually pretty funny. And I think even the most ardent, conservative Republicans would have to watch what's going on.