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Clinton and Sanders Debate in Miami; Iran Launches Missiles with Warning for Israel; Republican Candidates Regroup After Super Tuesday Two; U.S. Strikes Suspected ISIS Chemical Sites; North Korea Claims Having Miniaturized Nuclear Warheads; Macedonia Shuts Border with Greece to Migrants; Africa Rape Victims Receive Justice After 15 Years; Historic First Win in Man versus Machine "Go" Match. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired March 10, 2016 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:10] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles.
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour one day after the biggest upset of his campaign, U.S. presidential candidate Bernie Sanders tries to keep the pressure on rival Hillary Clinton.
VAUSE: Iran launches two new missiles with the words "Israel must be wiped out" written on the side in Hebrew.
SESAY: But as the high stakes battle of man versus machine, what it teaches us about the future of artificial intelligence.
VAUSE: It's really smart. Hello, everybody. Thank you for joining us. I'm John Vause.
SESAY: And I am Isha Sesay. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.
We begin in Miami, Florida, with possibly the most contentious debate yet between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. The U.S. Democratic presidential candidates clashed on health care and campaign finance.
VAUSE: Although the last debate was pretty contentious as well, Sanders kept up his attacks on Clinton's ties to Wall Street. Clinton again accused Sanders of voting against the auto industry bailout and then there was this exchange about immigration and whether the U.S. should deport undocumented children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My priorities are to deport violent criminals, terrorists and anyone who threatens our safety. So I do not have the same policy as the current administration does.
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION DEBATE MODERATOR: Can you promise tonight that you won't deport children while already here?
CLINTON: I will not deport children. I would not deport children. I do not want to deport family members either, Jorge. SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I will not
deport children from the United States of America.
RAMOS: And can you promise not to deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record?
SANDERS: I can make that promise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well, Rosalind Gold is a senior policy director with the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials and Cindy Montanez is a former California state legislator.
Ladies, welcome, good to have you with us again. You heard that clip. Both candidates taking the position that they would not deport children.
Did -- bear in mind they took the same position at that point on the issue of immigration. Did either of them, you know, make a greater impact when it came to talking about immigration in your opinion? I mean, did they stand out from each other?
CINDY MONTANEZ, FORMER CALIFORNIA STATE LEGISLATOR: I think what we're seeing is Secretary of State Hillary Clinton clearly has had a long relationship with the Hispanic community and has had -- and continues to have very strong support. But I think more than anything it gave Bernie Sanders the opportunity to start connecting in a very real and personal way with a huge part of the U.S. voting population and an increasing part of the U.S. population, which is the Latino votes.
And so I think today he came out very strong as did Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and saying we want to be put together comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship, which is something that Hispanics throughout the country support. And I think that they both did a good job in reaching out and identifying those key issues that have impacted the Latino community.
VAUSE: And, Rosalind, I think this is one of those issues where there is daylight, literally daylight between the Republicans and the Democrats. On the Democrat side, you know, there's not much between Clinton and Sanders on this. On Republican side, they're talking about nasty deportation of 11 million, building a wall, and getting Mexico to pay for it.
ROSALIND GOLD, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF LATINO ELECTED AND APPOINTED OFFICIALS: Well, I think this is an important issue for the Latino community. And it's a very personal one. It's not the only issue that Latinos care about. But Latinos, no matter what their immigration status is, whether they're native born or immigrant, they may have family members, they have friends, people in their neighborhoods who are immigrants and as important as the policies is the tone of the dialogue.
SESAY: Yes. GOLD: Latinos do not want to see family members and neighbors
disrespected and have offensive comments made and insulting comments. So it's not just the policies, it's the tone that the candidates are taking towards immigrants and their contributions to our country.
VAUSE: OK. There's been a bit of tough -- a few tough moments for Bernie Sanders. Most people thought that Hillary Clinton got the tougher questions but one tough moment for Bernie Sanders was old, about 30 years ago, when he was praising Fidel Castro as well as Daniel Ortega in the 1980s. He dodged the question and then Clinton attacked. Let's look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA ELENA SALINAS, UNIVISION DEBATE MODERATOR: In retrospect, have you ever regretted the characterizations of Daniel Ortega and Fidel Castro that you made in 1985?
SANDERS: The key issue here was whether the United States should go around overthrowing small Latin American countries. I think that that was a mistake.
SALINAS: You didn't answer the question.
CLINTON: I just want to add one thing to the question you were asking Senator Sanders. I think in that same interview he praised what he called the "revolution of values in Cuba" and talked about how people were working for the common good, not for themselves. I just couldn't disagree more.
[01:05:03] You know, if the values are that you oppress people, you disappear people, you imprison people, even kill people for expressing their opinions, for expressing freedom of speech, that is not the kind of revolution of values that I ever want to see anywhere.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Cindy, Hillary Clinton going after Bernie Sanders off the back of those comments, clearly believing they're points to be scored. But will his comments -- will they cost him points in the Latino community?
MONTANEZ: There's a possibility that it will cost him some points with older Hispanic voters that have very strong opinions about oppressive regimes from their native countries. However, with a lot of the younger voters, these are comments that were made 30 years ago, Bernie Sanders continues to have a lot of very strong support from younger voters that were frankly not alive 30 years ago and may not feel that personal connection to some of those regimes.
So -- but I think overall, you know, the messages that he has on immigration, on free public university, college education, the economy and jobs, those are the ones that I think that are going to speak more to the Latino community as a whole.
VAUSE: OK. Let's get to a tough question for Hillary Clinton. For the first time in one of these debates I think the issue of Benghazi was brought up. Jorge Ramos, the moderator, was booed by the crowd when he asked this, and he also asked Secretary Clinton about the federal investigation into the e-mail scandal and, you know, a possible indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAMOS: If you get indicted would you drop out?
CLINTON: Oh, for goodness, that is not going to happen. I'm not even answering that question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: She was pretty tough.
SESAY: She was.
GOLD: Well, I think that she definitely wanted to demonstrate that this is so trivial, that this is a nonissue and for Latinos there really are more serious issues.
VAUSE: For Democrats in general, though.
GOLD: Exactly.
VAUSE: This doesn't resonate.
GOLD: And so issues such as affordable housing, good jobs, the economic state of their communities, access to education. These are the issues that Latinos and Latino Democrats really care about and that's what they want to hear about in these dialogues.
MONTANEZ: Yes. And I just want to say, I mean, the Democrat -- both Democratic presidential candidates have done a good job in trying to stick to the issues that Americans care about, which is jobs, the economy, public education, climate change, all of these things that are the most pressing issues impacting our country and clearly it's become a political issue because she's not the first secretary of state that has done this.
VAUSE: Sure. But Benghazi and e-mails is an issue or are issues, rather, which Republicans care about.
MONTANEZ: Right. It will be a definite issue for the general election.
VAUSE: Yes. Exactly. In the general election.
SESAY: And we've got to let you guys go, but just very quickly and off the top of your head, who won the debate in your view?
MONTANEZ: I think they both did a great job. I would say Bernie Sanders continues to make himself very relevant and continues to stay in the game. And that I think what he needed to do tonight.
GOLD: I think they both increased their relationship and built their relationship with the Latino community. And I think neither of them can assume that the Latino vote is on their side. The Latino vote is still up for grabs and they're both going to have to work very hard to get it.
VAUSE: And we'll leave it at that. Thanks, guys.
SESAY: It is such a pleasure. Thank you so much.
MONTANEZ: Thank you.
GOLD: Thank you.
VAUSE: Well, the Republican candidates will face off again this week in another debate right here on CNN. The last time they debated it was a full-on lock them down insult fest.
SESAY: Yes, it was. Marco Rubio says he's not proud of those attacks and his poll numbers have dropped since going negative.
CNN politics reporter Sara Murray has more on the race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was watching the news in one of the rooms, and every single advertisement was about me. And it was during my tournament. I'm turning my tournament. I go from tournament to horrible land. Every -- the most vicious.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (voice-over): In the face of an onslaught of attacks, Donald Trump is triumphing, notching three more victories Tuesday night and nudging the party to rally behind him.
TRUMP: The bottom line is we have something going that's so good. We should grab each other and we should unify the party and nobody is going to beat us, OK.
MURRAY: The billionaire businessman celebrating with a surreal election night event, responding to a drum beat of criticism about his failed ventures with an evening designed to showcase Trump branded products.
TRUMP: And we have Trump Steaks. And by the way, if you want to take one, we'll charge you about what? 50 bucks a steak, Donald.
MURRAY: According to news reports, Sharper Image no longer sells Trump Steaks.
TRUMP: You'll absolutely love Trump Steaks.
MURRAY: And Busch Brothers provides steaks to Trump hotels and golf clubs. So it's unclear where the slab of meat Trump touted came from.
Now that the fight for the nomination is looking more like a two-man race, Ted Cruz isn't letting up.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't have any steaks to sell you. I don't have any wine. I don't have any cleaning products.
[01:10:03] MURRAY: The Texas senator emerging with a victory in Idaho Tuesday and today getting another boost with an endorsement from former presidential hopeful Carly Fiorina.
CRUZ: Carly's being with us today is just one more manifestation of what we have been seeing playing out over the last several weeks, which is Republicans uniting, coming together behind our campaign.
MURRAY: But for Marco Rubio, a brutal night. Another winless evening and even steeper odds as he pins all his hopes on Florida.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You believed in me once. I am asking you to believe again. We can win this election and we will. I need your help next Tuesday because we are not just going to win the Florida primary. We are going to win Florida in November.
MURRAY: And today John Kasich is still holding on. Outperforming Rubio last night and fighting for victory in his home state of Ohio next Tuesday.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And with those states that have not yet selected a delegate, basically the three, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and I, are dead even going into the last half of this whole match. So don't be thinking it's over yet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Well, you can watch the next Republican debate Friday morning 9:30 Hong Kong time, it is only here on CNN.
VAUSE: OK. We move on now. Iran's semi-official Fars News Agency reports Tehran launched missiles on Wednesday marked with a threatening message directed towards Israel.
SESAY: CNN's Elise Labott has details and reaction from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER (voice-over): For the second day in a row, Iran test-fired two missiles it says were designed to hit Israel, with the words "Israel must be wiped out" stamped on one of them in Hebrew.
There were similar launches on Tuesday. And the White House says it is expecting more. It's a bold show by hardliners that Iran will push ahead with its missile program despite the threat of new sanctions. The U.S. says these missile tests don't violate last year's nuclear deal. But in Israel today the vice president put Iran on notice.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to reiterate, which I know people still doubt here, if, in fact, they break the deal, we will act.
LABOTT: Iran's supreme leader continues to thwart U.S. hopes that the landmark nuclear deal will usher in better relations with Iran. Since the deal was reached, Iran has fired rockets near U.S. warships and in January seized 10 U.S. sailors who had drifted into Iranian waters, holding them for 15 hours and releasing embarrassing video of their capture.
Just last month, chants of "Death to America" were still the mantra at celebrations of the 1979 Iranian Revolution. The chief U.S. negotiator of the nuclear deal says after decades of hatred for the U.S. don't expect Iran to change overnight.
WENDY SHERMAN, ALBRIGHT STONEBRIDGE GROUP: Those who are calling for a rapid normalization of activities and relationship with Iran, I believe are wrong. We have a very long way to go.
LABOTT (on camera): The U.S. says it sees no signs that the gains of reformists in the parliament elections will moderate Iran's behavior.
Wednesday is the anniversary of the disappearance of former FBI agent, Robert Levinson, who disappeared nine years ago on Iran's Kish Island. The U.S. again calling on Iran to make good on its promise to determine what happened to him and end this long ordeal for his family.
Elise Labott, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Bob Baer is a CNN intelligence and security analyst, author of the book "The Devil We Know: Dealing With the New Iranian Superpower." He joins us now from Newport Beach in California.
So, Bob, taking the message here to Israel, but what is the message to the United States and also to Saudi Arabia with this missile?
BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think the message is that Iran feels its ascendant in the Middle East. It seems to be winning in Syria, back in the Bashar al-Assad regime. It's winning in Iraq. The Saudis have been stymied in Yemen and even in Lebanon they've got the upper hand and I think we're just looking -- seeing a very aggressive Iran ready to confront the United States or anybody else. They've pretty much gotten what they wanted.
VAUSE: Is there also a message here, too, for the Iranian population? They held those elections and we're told that, you know, a bunch of reformists and moderates were elected to parliament.
BAER: Exactly, John. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard core is -- you know, belongs to the supreme leader, Khomeini. They're all powerful. They can pretty much ignore the Majlis and the president as well.
I don't see a whole lot of changes in Iran. You know, it's getting more moderate, slightly but it's still the same aggressive Iran and I think now that they're exporting oil and they're starting to get -- you know, they're taking ground and they're demonstrating this.
[01:15:04] VAUSE: Yes, the United States, Washington is considering a response. It's talking of imposing more sanctions because this, you know, is a breach of the U.N. resolution when it comes to launching this kind of missiles. The Iranians say it's not. But, you know, is the problem now for the Obama administration is that they've made the nuclear deal with Iran so much a part of Obama's legacy that in some ways that's hanging over their head, it's too big to fail?
BAER: Well, exactly. And, you know, we sort of gotten what we could out of the Europeans and Russia as well on the nuclear deal. And I don't think it's -- I think right now it's impossible to impose sanctions on Iran. Russia would veto them almost certainly and the Europeans don't have the stomach for it right now and I think the Iranians know that. As long as they adhere to the nuclear agreement, you know, it's safe sailing for them.
VAUSE: And finally, just talk about these missiles themselves. You know, we know their range is 1200 miles, they can reach Israel, they can reach Saudi Arabia. But what about -- you know, how accurate are they? What type of payload can they deliver? How deadly are they, I guess?
BAER: They're extremely accurate. They're not like Saddam's Scud missiles. It would miss by hundreds of miles. They're accurate. They could land one in the middle of Tel Aviv. They could launch them very quickly. Pull them out of caves. The Iranians have advanced, it's amazing over the last 20 years, the technology that they've acquired and they've developed themselves.
VAUSE: Bob, thank you. Bob Baer, live for us this hour, yet again with some analysis. We appreciate it, Bob.
BAER: Thank you.
SESAY: You're watching NEWSROOM L.A. -- NEWSROOM live from L.A. I should say. After the break, these photos may be evidence of yet another ISIS chemical attack.
VAUSE: Also ahead, North Korea is making new threats against Seoul. This time economically. We'll have the latest in a live report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(SPORTS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:20:52] SESAY: Welcome back, everyone. Iraqi officials are investigating whether ISIS may have carried out a chemical attack in the country's north. A local government says it happened about 20 kilometers south of Kirkuk. A health official says it looks like some of the 100 people wounded during rocket shelling were exposed to a toxic chemical.
VAUSE: And we're learning more about U.S. operations against the ISIS chemical weapons program in Iraq.
Here's our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. military has been secretly interrogating the man it believes is the head of ISIS' chemical weapons program. For nearly a month, trying to get him to offer up crucial intelligence. Top intelligence officials spelling out the threat.
LT. GEN. VINCENT STEWART, U.S. DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY DIRECTOR: Neither ISIS nor al Qaeda has walked away from their desire to develop chemical and biological capability that they could use against the West.
JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: ISIL has also used toxic chemicals in Iraq and Syria, including the blister agent sulfur mustard.
STARR: U.S. intelligence has confirmed 12 instances of ISIS using mustard agent against civilians in Iraq and Syria, including this attack against Kurds last year. Officials say the detainee provided enough information in recent days for U.S. warplanes to conduct limited airstrikes in Iraq against suspected chemical sites. But there is reason for skepticism. First, ISIS didn't appear to react to a key operative disappearing.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It appears that they didn't miss him. So this tells me that it's more of a mid-level functionary.
STARR: The U.S. says he traveled regularly, making his disappearance into captivity less obvious. And there's also no immediate indication the U.S. met the military goal, taking out the entire chemical weapons enterprise.
LEIGHTON: It's very difficult to take out the entire chemical capability of ISIS because the types of chemicals that they are using, like mustard agent, are ones that can be produced very easily.
STARR (on camera): The Obama administration has been going at great lengths to keep all of this out of the public eye. But U.S. officials say it is very likely that ISIS still could reconstitute the mustard agent program and begin to manufacture it again at a time and place of its choosing.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Well, Bob Baer is balk with us. He joins us via Skype from Newport Beach, California. He's our intelligence and security analyst and also a former CIA operative.
Bob, always good to speak to you. What's your view of the picture emerging of ISIS's chemical weapons program thanks to this information from this captured operative?
BAER: I'm sure it was helpful. But I think they already knew in advance for a long time that ISIS has stockpiles, mustard agents as well as serin, and they don't really need to develop it. It's got a long shelf life. They don't know where it's all stored. There's a possibility that they've used serin against the Kurds and almost certainly mustard agent. They put this in artillery shells. It's powdered. It's a blistering agent. It can also be used for terrorism. I think this program is extensive and it'd be very difficult to take out the whole thing.
SESAY: Yes, I was just about to ask you, in terms of these strikes believed be to against these crucial weapons facilities, I mean, to what degree would they have degraded ISIS's capabilities.
BAER: They can degrade it, Isha, but it would over time, you know, this can take year -- we basically have to remove the Islamic State completely to get to all the weapons -- the chemical weapons, chemical agents and the rest of it. Bombing has a limited effect but as you said it degrades it and for very good reason they hit those facilities and took out as much as they could.
SESAY: As they talk to this or interrogate this operative, where are the gaps in U.S. intelligence understanding of the program? What are they trying to get at here? What are the key elements?
BAER: Well, I think the man they arrested had worked for Saddam Hussein's industrial complex, have been making this stuff as an expert.
[01:25:07] But there's a lot of them. A lot of these people that were living in Mosul and in the Sunni areas, simply defected to the Islamic State. So they have an unlimited number of experts and we don't know who all they -- you know, they are at this point. But again I go back where are they storing this stuff and we simply don't know. The intelligence isn't good enough because we don't have sources inside the Islamic State. You can just see this stuff from overhead in some intercepts but that's insufficient to really get to the bottom of this program.
SESAY: You know, everyone is -- you know, is hailing, or at least a great deal is being made of the capture of this Sleiman Daoud Al- Bakkar. But you just made the point that there are lot of these people running around. It begs the question, I mean, how significant is his detention? I mean, how do you view it?
BAER: It's -- at the end of the day, it's not very significant. I mean, we didn't learn that much, from the sky, maybe some locations of this place. You know, and how advanced they are and, you know, there's also the question of whether they can take -- whether they can take serin and a mustard agent to, for instance, Europe to use for terrorism attack. And they're continuing to interrogate this guy but how much he knows, we'll have to wait and see.
SESAY: Bob Baer, always good to speak to you. Thanks so much for the insight. VAUSE: Well, we'll take a short break here. And when we come back,
North Korea showing its fire power and now threatening the South economically one day after making bold claims about its nuclear program. The details ahead in a live report from Seoul.
SESAY: Plus after a historic first win, a Google made computer program is battling a world champion's player to pack an ancient board game. That is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:30:20] SESAY: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause.
The headlines this hour --
(HEADLINES)
SESAY: North Korea says it's stopping all economic cooperation with Seoul. This is the latest in a series of actions that surged tensions in the region.
VAUSE: Japan condemned North Korea for firing two short-range ballistic missiles, which landed in the sea off the Korean peninsula. That launch comes a day after Pyongyang made new claims about its nuclear capability.
Here's Paula Hancocks reporting from Seoul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kim Jong-Un says this is a miniaturized nuclear warhead, a capability hoped North Korea would never reach but some U.S. officials feared they already had.
The location and date of the photos is unknown. Intelligence agencies around the world will be pouring over them to assess what it tells them about the true capability of the nation that just days ago threatened nuclear war on the U.S. and South Korea. Is this a real nuclear weapon? What kind of missile is this? And is this a blueprint?
South Korea casts doubt on its neighbor's claim, saying in a press release, "The South Korea Defense Ministry assesses that North Korea at this point has not secured the capability of miniaturizing a nuclear warhead."
North Korea observers say Kim Jong-Un's message is the same, whether the warhead is real or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of the regime's long-term strategy, be accepts as a peer nuclear state. So they continue to pressure the international community and to show that they will not reverse course. This is a show of defiance. HANCOCKS: Defiance it has shown all year. January 5th, it claimed to have successfully tested a hydrogen bomb, a claim widely discredited. February 7th, a satellite launch outside the country as a long-range missile test.
Unprecedented U.N. sanctions against North Korea last week were met with Kim Jong-Un calling for his nuclear weapons to be on stand by. Joint military drills between the U.S. and South Korea this week were met with threats of a preemptive nuclear strike.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, Paula Hancocks live for us in Seoul with that development.
And Mike Chinoy is joining us from Hong Kong. He's a senior fellow at the U.S.-China Institute at the University of Southern California. He's also author of "Meltdown, The Inside Story of the North Korean Nuclear Crisis."
Paula, first up to you.
The latest on the two missiles filed by the North Koreans in the past two hours, what more do we know about that?
HANCOCKS: John, this happened 5:20 in the morning local time. There were two short-range ballistic missiles fired, according to the Joint Chiefs of Staff here in South Korea. They believe they had a flight range of about 500 kilometers. There's been a statement from the U.S., or at least we've spoken to a senior administration official that says the U.S. has raised huge concerns in this administration, so they've already responded to this. This is what we should be expecting this at this time of year. Even though tensions are higher this year, we always see the rockets and missiles during the joint military drills between the U.S. and South Korea. They're the largest ever this year and Pyongyang is very irritated them, believing it's a dress rehearsal for an invasion. And back in 2014, they fired about 90 of these short-range missiles, believed to be scuds according to the defense ministry.
So, this is as expected. Of course, tensions are far higher this year because over the past couple months you've had a nuclear test, a satellite launch, believed to be a missile test from North Korea. You have the U.N. Sanctions, described as unprecedented, the strongest in two decades. And now you've had Kim Jong-Un once again threatening nuclear. And also these new photos of what Kim Jong-Un and North Korea say is a miniaturized nuclear warhead -- John?
VAUSE: With that in mind, we'll go to Mike Chinoy in Hong Kong.
Some people are taking the photographs seriously enough to be concerned. Mike, 10 years of trying and four nuclear tests later, it's possible they made progress in miniaturization of a warhead.
[01:35:] MIKE CHINOY, SENIOR FELLOW, U.S.-CHINA INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA & AUTHOR: I don't think there's any doubt they're making progress. It remains unclear whether the photographs they released with their announcement whether they have actually miniaturized a warhead. The timing, as Paula suggested, is directly to these joint U.S., South Korea military exercises, and the North Koreans have been very angry about the exercises. They get upset every year, but this year, their level of anger is much greater, partially because the scale is so much larger and the focus has been, in part, on rehearsing what has been described as decapitation of the North Korean leadership, that that were something the U.S. and South Korea was necessary. But there's no question they're moving in that direction and these photos are an indication that they continue to make progress.
VAUSE: So, back to talking about decapitation of the leadership, are we talking a military option here? Because in the past, going back to 2006, the U.S. has been discussing the possibility of some kind of action against the North Koreans because, diplomacy, sanctions, everything else hasn't worked. So are we at the point, Mike, where a U.S. military strike is the last option on the table?
CHINOY: I think military planners will be thinking about this. But a preemptive strike has all sorts of problems. And my guess is it would be a quit unlikely. I think in the more immediate time frame the worry is that the rhetoric and bluster has been so intense in the face of these joint U.S./South Korean exercises that there's a possibility of some further North Korea military move. What we have seen so far have been missile launches that have gone into the sea and haven't hit anybody or anything. But I wouldn't be surprised to see the North Koreans make a move that would target perhaps the South Korean islands, off the coast of South Korea, or some other actual military step, and then it gets very dangerous because the South Koreans have had a sea change in their approach to North Korea, and made it clear they're not interested in engagement anymore, and that they would strike back if the North Koreans took such a step. So there's a danger that if the North takes even a modest military step, the South Koreans will feel compelled to respond, and then you get into the scary escalation scenario.
VAUSE: Let's go back to Paula in Seoul
And I guess, Paula, the living in Seoul, not from the North Korean border, we know the North Koreans have a range of missiles, hundreds if not thousands of missiles lined up on the boarder, pointing to the south, what is the feeling there? Is there a genuine concern that maybe this time is different, that they are in range and something could happen?
HANCOCKS: Not really. When you go into the streets of Seoul, John, things are going as they usually do. It's business as normal here. Bear in mind, it's been decades that North Korea would be able to hit South Korea with its military capabilities. This is nothing news. But certainly, the sentiment is this is what North Korea does. They are used to rhetoric. Certainly, officials are looking more closely at what North Korea is saying. As Mike said, there appears to be a sea change with the administration here. That is certainly different. But for experts who really know the story and know North Korea here, they seem to be more concerned because of that perspective, miscalculation by Kim Jong-Un. If he believes that the South will respond in one way but it responds stronger or even just an error from an individual soldier on either side of the border, which could escalate very quickly when tensions are this high -- John?
VAUSE: It's incredible how the South Korean barely seem to blink when this stuff is happening around them.
Paula, thank you.
Also our thanks to Mike Chinoy in Hong Kong.
SESAY: Migrants and refugees have lost a major path to Europe. Another Balkan nation closes its border, leaving thousands of people stranded.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:42:45] VAUSE: Welcome back. Macedonia has become the latest country to shut its borders to migrants. The nation says it closed its border with Greece after Serbia sealed its southern border. The so-called Balkan migration route to Europe is now effectively closed.
SESAY: Doctors Without Borders says more than 11,000 people are stranded in Greece at the Macedonian border. And more are arriving at a port in Athens, not sure what will happen to them next.
Senior international correspondent, Atika Shubert, has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Piraeus Port, the gateway to Athens. For many refugees, it is no longer the doorway to Europe.
Most mornings, ferries arrive from the islands, the tourists come off first, then the refugees. They carry bundles of blankets, rolled-up tents in one arm, babies in the other, all with the same destination --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Germany.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Germany.
SHUBERT: Germany.
(on camera): There's been a lot of confusion and chaos here. Nobody's really sure where to go. There's a bus, but it really only brings people around the terminal. And there's no official to tell them where to go next.
(voice-over): We do see a single U.N. official attempting to figure out who needs what, but many simply set up temporary homes inside the port.
But where there are few officials, there are plenty of volunteers. Sacure Alosopoulous (ph) was laid off in the debt crisis so he turned
to helping the homeless, and now refugees. But since the borders north have closed, their work has changed.
SACURE ALOSOPOULOUS (ph), VOLUNTEER: Food, clothing, medical care, and then we would see them off on their buses to the border.
SHUBERT (on camera): That has changed now.
ALOSOPOULOUS (ph): And that has changed now and this change means that we're overnight we became a camp.
SHUBERT (voice-over): Greeks, heavily indebt, deep in unemployment, know what it's like to need a helping hand. Athens residents stream in with donations.
Nearby, Johnson and Johnson sponsors a childrens' play area that also serves as a waiting room for an onsite pediatrician and a children's dentist. But the days are hot, the wait is long, and the border is still not open.
(SHOUTING)
SHUBERT (on camera): This is a group of Afghan refugees demanding that Macedonia open the border.
(voice-over): But their demands are not heard.
As governments bicker over what to do, ordinary Greeks do what they can to help. The refugees wait, facing a choice, stay in Greece and hope to be legally accepted as an asylum seeker and relocated somewhere in Europe, or keep moving, whether illegal or not.
Atika Shubert, CNN, at Piraeus Port, in Athens, Greece.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[01:45:44] SESAY: Turning to Africa and a 15-year legal battle in Ethiopia is finally bringing some justice for a rape victim.
VAUSE: The African Commission has ruled the victim, who was 13 at the time of her attack, should receive $150,000 compensation, and Ethiopia should address the practice of marriage by abduction and rape. The decision comes after pressure from the international human rights organization, Equality Now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Joining us now is Yasmeen Hassan, global director of Equality Now.
Yasmeen, good to have you with us.
The victim was 13 years old when she was abducted and raped back in 2001. Why is she only now receiving a form of justice? YASMEEN HASSAN, GLOBAL DIRECTOR, EQUALITY NOW: My god, it's a story
of perseverance. It's a story of the state putting every imaginable hurtle in a girl's way to justice. She was raped when she was 13- year-old. She was abducted from her grandmother's house by a man, Abu Magusi (ph) and his accomplices. She was raped and held in the house. When the teachers reported this to the police, they freed her but then arrested the perpetrators but left them out on bail and he and his accomplices abducted her again and held her for a month.
We have been pursuing justice for her since that time. We took it to the highest court in Ethiopia. We lost. And then in 2007, we brought the case to the African Commission for Human and People's Rights. And from 2007 to now, 2015, we finally have a judgment that is fantastic.
SESAY: Yasmeen, to that point, the very fact that Yasmeen's own attorney played a role in having her rapists set free, what does that say about how the Ethiopian justice system treats rape victims? Give us some perspective.
HASSAN: No, it's awful, and it's not only Ethiopia. In this case, the prosecutors sided with the defendant, which is absolutely ridiculous. The prosecutor's job is to prosecute, on behalf of the state, people who violate the law. And the law was clearly violated. But he sided with them and said there's no evidence that she was a virgin and they are free. So what this case shows, and it's more than just Ethiopia, is how hard it is for girls throughout the world to get justice for violations committed against them. Because, first, they're violated by people, and then the state continues the violation, because if you drag a justice system on -- like this girl was 13 years old, she was a child, and now she's 28 yours old and she's spent 15 years of her life fighting the people who did this to her and the government. Good thing her family supported her, which is rare. Most girls do not have the stamina to go on for 15 years like this.
SESAY: But what will it change?
HASSAN: What we hope it will change is, first of all, it sends a clear message to governments like this that you cannot -- somebody is going to hold you to account. When you come before the African Commission, other governments are watching you. You have a judgment against you, that makes you look really bad. And I'm sure governments -- no government deliberately wants to ignore a huge part of their population. It's 50 percent of their population, right? So I think what it achieved is very many times women and girls issues are seen as not that important by governments. But when you bring them to a regional or national level, they get highlighted. There's more awareness around them. Things start to change. So, I think all that is very positive. Only good things can happen from it. And we are hopeful.
SESAY: Yes, as we all are, and very relieved and happy that she as received some measure of justice after such a long time.
Yasmeen Hassan, always a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you.
HASSAN: Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: And with that, we'll take a short break. And we'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:52:37] VAUSE: Hello everyone. Well, a second of what is likely to be another tense match is underway right now in South Korea between man and computer. But it's not just any computer or any game. On Wednesday, Google's Alpha Go software beat the world champion and legendary Go player, Lee Sedol.
VAUSE: Go is an ancient and very difficult Chinese board game. On Wednesday's win, it was a major breakthrough for artificial intelligence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, of course, we're very excited about this historic moment and we're very pleased with how Go performed.
LEE SEDOL, WORLD CHAMPION "GO" PLAYER (through translation): I was very surprised. I didn't think Alpha Go would play in such a perfect manner. So I was very surprised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: These are live pictures. It's the second of the best of five matches. It's happening right now in Seoul. It started about three hours ago.
VAUSE: I have no idea who's winning. But apparently the goal is to take territorial control of the board.
(CROSSTALK)
VAUSE: The head of Google's team that develop said Alpha Go says there's more possible configurations than there are atoms in the universe. How they worked that out, I have no idea.
SESAY: And very, very confusing.
VAUSE: Which is luckily why --
SESAY: Richard Korf, a computer science professor at the University of California is here with us in the studio to help make sense of it all.
Welcome.
RICHARD KORF, COMPUTER SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: Thank you very much
SESAY: First, tell us why Go, this particular game, is seen as such a critical test for A.I., why this moment is being lauded.
KORF: It's probably analogous to something that happened about 20 years ago, which was an IBM machine, called Deep Blue, beat Gary Kasparov, the world's human champion at Chess. This is like deja vu for me. The difference between Chess and Go is Go is a much more complicated, difficult game, particularly for computers to play. The standard techniques used for chess, which were so successful in checkers, Chess, Othello, and other games, don't work as well in Go.
VAUSE: Because in chess, there's 20 possible moves and Go is 2000. Is that right?
KORF: In Chess, there's about 35 possible moves on average. Go is typically 250. And that makes Go more difficult for computers and the standard techniques used for these other games.
SESAY: And how did Alpha Go good so good at it? You said before this is a case of a number of breakthroughs.
KORF: It's not one particular breakthrough, but it's a tremendous engineering effort combining a lot of developments done in artificial intelligence probably for the last seven years. They put a lot of things together. They learned from human masters. They have a database of an enormous number of Go games where moves were made by human masters and we've learned based on that. They learned also based on self play. Build a program like this, you can have it play against various versions of itself and get better as well.
[01:55:] VAUSE: Stephen Hawkins, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, you know the list of people, they've all said that artificial intelligence is an existential threat to humanity. So should we all be worried about this?
(LAUGHTER)
KORF: Not for the Go program. Most people who say that are not people in the A.I. research community. In my community, people are not as concerned about A.I. taking over the world. Frankly, I'm more concerned with artificial intelligence being used by humans in bad ways, like automatic weapons and drones that are not controlled by people and those sorts of things. Those are a much more dangerous thing to worry about. Myself and most of the people in the field, not all of them, are not particularly concerned about A.I. taking over the world and enslaving us.
SESAY: That's the long term. In the short term, what does this moment in time mean for us?
KORF: Well, this is a milestone. It's a scientific field that's been around since 1950 and continues to make progress. And this is a milestone. We're going to see more and more A.I. I think one more thing we'll see a lot of is self-driving cars. It will be a tremendous boom to society. It's another example of artificial intelligence.
VAUSE: We have to leave it there. Robby the Robot is making my house a little smarter.
Thank you.
SESAY: Thank you.
KORF: You're welcome.
VAUSE: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.
SESAY: I'm Isha Sesay.
The news continues with Errol Barnett right after this.
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