Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Democrats Prepare for Critical Town Hall Tonight; Trump Blames Sanders Supporters for Protests; Security Tight at Trump Rally in South Florida; Lincoln Versus Douglas; Interview with Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff; Super Tuesday Democratic Delegates by the Numbers. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 13, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:13] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 6:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York.

We have quite an hour ahead for you. This is CNN special live coverage in the lead-up to tonight's CNN Democratic town hall.

The candidates gearing up for their final pitch to voters on the same stage tonight before Tuesday's winner-take-all primaries in Florida and Ohio. Will Clinton deliver a lead that is tough to surpass or will rival Bernie Sanders be able to convince voters that he should survive and perhaps unexpectedly take another state, like he did with Michigan? Could he take Ohio?

We are expecting Bernie Sanders to speak this hour. We'll bring that to you live.

That comes in the wake of a big attack Republican front-runner Donald Trump putting the blame squarely on Bernie Sanders for what can only be described as a weekend of campaign chaos. A Trump rally in Chicago shut down Friday after a melee broke out, leaving dozens arrested, some punches thrown. Two police officers injured.

Trump right here on CNN accusing Bernie Sanders of instigating all of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I say things like I'd like to punch him, frankly, this was a person that was absolutely violent, and was like a crazed individual. A lot of them are, you know, I don't even call them protesters. I call them disrupters. A lot of them come from Bernie Sanders, whether he wants to say it or not, and if he says no, then he's lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We have every angle of this covered.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Brianna Keilar is with us, executive editor for CNN politics Mark Preston, also CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, also political commentator Bill Press, Bernie Sanders supporter, and political contributor to CNN, Michael Nutter a Hillary Clinton supporter and former mayor as well.

Thank you all for being with us.

I want to go to Brianna first.

Give us the lay of the land. What can we expect tonight, Bri?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think we're going to be expecting perhaps some fireworks. You remember the last couple of debates, we have seen some of the most testy exchanges between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. And he's been calling for her to release transcripts of these speeches that she's given between the time she was secretary of state and she was a candidate, and I think we can expect more of that.

I think we're expecting Hillary Clinton to come swinging at Bernie Sanders again over the auto bailout. Some people have said that was something really backfired, but I think the Clinton campaign thinks that she finally found her message at the last debate when she said if everyone voted the way Bernie Sanders voted, there wouldn't have been an auto rescue. She sort of bungled her initial framing of that, that Bernie Sanders -- he had voted for standalone auto bailout bill but ultimately the money that did go for the auto rescue, he did not vote for it.

And I think we're going to have a lot of attacks from Bernie Sanders on Hillary Clinton for her past trade positions. Certainly, what he thought worked in Michigan, he thinks is going to work in Ohio. We'll see more of it.

HARLOW: And it absolutely could, when you look at just the jobs picture in Ohio and Michigan, especially with factory jobs, et cetera.

Mark Preston, to you. Who do you think does better in this format, this town hall format? Because I find this fascinating, I often prefer them to debates because you get to know all sorts of -- much more personal things about the candidates and you get to see hem directly answer the voter questions.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: You do. You know, in these town halls came at a moment in time in the campaign where they really did fit into the dialogue of what was happening. We'd seen them debate several times. We kind of knew where they were in their positions. We saw where the flash points were.

What these town halls do, it allows us to see how they would play to an audience about these attacks that they have, Bernie Sanders on trade, Hillary Clinton on the auto bailout, but they don't have the opponent next to them so they feel a little bit more free wheeling. My favorite part of these town halls, though, is when you get into the personal questions and ask them things that they normally don't get asked at during an interview or certainly, you know, during a debate. You ask about their family, you ask about religion and you really kind of get a peek inside their soul in some ways, which I really find fascinating to look.

Voters do vote on policy issues clearly, but they also vote on the person and that's why I think these town halls are so important.

HARLOW: Absolutely. I mean, remember the moment when I think it was Anderson Cooper moderating and Ted Cruz started to sing a little bit? He sang to us about how he sang to his wife?

Brianna, let me ask you, because you covered Hillary Clinton so closely. There is that issue of sort of likability. This was an issue brought up by then-Senator Obama in 2008. How does she do on likability in these formats?

KEILAR: I think this is a chance for her to kind of let her hair down a little bit and be more likely. But I think here real issue has to do with trustworthiness.

HARLOW: Yes.

KEILAR: We would see in exit polls that a lot of people think that Bernie Sanders is just more trustworthy.

[18:05:01] They think that he is more of a straight shooter.

I think actually the Clinton campaign thinks that this is sort of baked in. It's so entrenched, how do you really deal with it? Maybe they can't. So, I think what her tactic is, is to try to show that she is going to be more effective, right, that she's going to get the job done, cast Bernie Sanders as someone who makes all of these big promises, promise of things he won't be able to deliver on and she's hoping that that's something the voters would connect with and believe in.

HARLOW: Right. That issue, sort of pragmatism versus idealism, although the Clinton camp doesn't like it put that way.

Guys, thank you. Stay with us.

KEILAR: Yes.

HARLOW: Nia, to you. Bernie Sanders said this today on "STATE OF THE UNION" about Hillary Clinton that really stood out to me. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENITIAL CANDIDATE: I think that, you know, Secretary Clinton is getting a little bit nervous. She lost last week in Michigan. I think she understands that the momentum in this campaign and the energy is with us, and that we have a good chance to win a number of states on Tuesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Do the numbers, Nia, back him up on that, nervous?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I mean, I think the momentum certainly backs him up. Big win in Michigan, I think it caught everybody by surprise that they were able to win by three points or so.

But in terms of the way this Democratic race is set up, and sort of Democratic math, Hillary Clinton is favored still to win the nomination. And the way it's set up is that it's hard to pull ahead, but it's also hard if you're Bernie Sanders to catch up.

But also, if you're Bernie Sanders, it's very easy to make a lot of, get a lot of donations. So, he's going to be flush with cash for many, many weeks. After his Michigan win, I think he was able to raise something like $5 million. Hillary Clinton herself said listen I stayed in until the bitter end in 2008 so Bernie Sanders should, too, if that's what he wants to do.

But surely, I think of the Clinton campaign must be a little bit nervous particularly on this trade issue, because it is something that Bernie Sanders I think has effectively argued against her.

HARLOW: And we saw how it resonated with voters in the polls.

HENDERSON: It resonated, yes. And it's people are living this. They look around and --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: This is your candidate, Mayor Nutter, if you were running that campaign, what are you going to do when Bernie Sanders says, "I was clear on trade all along, look what Hillary Clinton did with her husband's administration, look how late she was to come out on TPP"?

MICHAEL NUTTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Well, I mean, the senator is going to keep saying what he's saying and if it's working for him, I would expect that he would keep doing it. The reality is, is that Hillary Clinton has a clear record on getting things done. She makes things happen. That's her stock and trade.

HARLOW: But on trade, that's hitting home with people.

NUTTER: If you supported something, you know, you're not going to suddenly dial it back. If there are other things where you clearly think you made a mistake, supporting something, so you go to the 1994 crime bill, she said try to fix things actually as a senator. Senator Sanders never explained why he voted for that.

So, they're each going to have their points.

HARLOW: So, you're saying she's not going to say NAFTA was a mistake. So, you're saying, she's focused on where the wins are.

NUTTER: I mean, we'll see what happens tonight. I'm not anticipating that's going to be it but, you know, Senator Sanders has some votes he needs to explain as well.

HARLOW: Bill, you're a Sanders supporter. I want your response to Nia's. I mean, the numbers are the numbers

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. First of all, I enjoyed Bernie Sanders saying Hillary is getting nervous. You know, we all, the mayor's been a candidate, I've been a candidate, you try to play in the other person's head, you know, to put that out there and I thought that was pretty clever.

But Bernie's had a big win in Michigan as Nia-Malika said and he's got a chance to win Ohio, he's got a chance to win Illinois. If he does, it's going to be a whole new ball game.

First of all, let's just be fair about this --

HARLOW: You think there's a chance to win Ohio despite the polling?

PRESS: Oh, absolutely. Look, 17 points behind in Michigan and he won. But let's be clear about this, this Democratic primary is not going to be over tonight. It is going to continue for all the reasons that Nia-Malika said.

Senator Sanders is winning primaries and got the money, he's got a great role model on Hillary Clinton who kept going on, and this is good for the party.

You know, I have to disagree with Brianna a little bit. I don't think you're going to see fireworks tonight. I think you're going to see some clear differences in opinions which, and policies. The mayor mentioned a couple of them which we've seen before. They'll have a chance to elaborate on those and I'm looking forward to a good discussion on the issues and I agree with you town hall format any time.

NUTTER: The one thing we've seen clearly, at least on a Democratic side, and whether they're debating or in a town hall format, it will be substantive, it will be about real issues. You will get to know the candidates as, you know, more personable as they are in a different kind of format as opposed to kind of, you know, going back and forth in a debate.

I mean, the setup is the setup, but it will be a good night for both and for the Democratic Party.

HARLOW: I got to break in, hold that thought. You're with me all hour. We have a lot of time. We're going to talk about all of this and the Republicans when we get back.

[18:10:01] Be sure to join us for the CNN/TV One Democratic presidential town hall. Our own Jake Tapper moderates. Ohio voters, they're the ones that put their questions to Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, in advance of Tuesday's critical primaries. That is right here 8:00 p.m. tonight on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back.

Donald Trump now part of the Democratic race for president. Yes, I said the Democratic race for president, because he's now blaming Bernie Sanders for violent clashes in Chicago this weekend that took place before a Trump -- before a Trump rally. The Trump campaign canceled the rally Friday night after this

happened. Trump called Sanders his, quote, "communist friend" and said Hillary Clinton supporters didn't have enough fervor to bother with protesting his event. Both Sanders and Clinton quickly responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We should take Mr. Trump's words with a grain of salt because I think as almost everybody knows, this man cannot stop lying about anything. To call me a communist is a lie. To talk about our organization, our campaign, disrupting his meeting is a lie.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to say a few words about what happened last night in Chicago.

You know, we will always have our differences. That's what happens in a democracy, and it is healthy for us to debate, to dialogue, to disagree, but the ugly, divisive rhetoric we are hearing from Donald Trump and the encouragement he has given to violence and aggression is not only wrong, it's dangerous, my friends.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:15:05] HARLOW: Our panel back with me, senior political reporter for CNN, Nia-Malika Henderson, Hillary Clinton supporter, Michael Nutter, former mayor of Philadelphia, and Bernie Sanders supporter Bill Press, host of "The Bill Press Show".

Thank you all for being back with me.

Nia, does the Trump campaign benefit politically from slamming Sanders? I don't -- walk me through the thinking behind this.

HENDERSON: I think so. Because I think they were able to quickly turn this around. You know, the initial kind of discourse and dialogue about it is was all about Trump inciting this, saying from his rallies, you know, I wish I could punch the guy or you should punch the guy.

And all of a sudden, he's turned himself into something of a victim, right, with Bernie Sanders and Bernie Sanders' supporters on the other side. And I think most importantly he's given his followers which are millions and millions of people, something like 35 percent of the vote cast, so far, he's given them something to say, a kind of comeback about all this violence that has happened at these rallies and some of the rhetoric so they can now blame it on Bernie Sanders, this communist.

So, I think this works for Donald Trump. We'll have to see on Tuesday what happens.

HARLOW: You -- Bernie Sanders -- Bernie's supporters get the credit for this, right, and then, Hillary Clinton on the other side of it. I just wonder if you think mayor as a Clinton supporter, this is in a way showing that perhaps Donald Trump sees Bernie Sanders as a more formidable threat in say a general?

NUTTER: No, think it shows Donald Trump being the usual irresponsible Donald Trump, who is not taking any responsibility for virtually anything that happens in a campaign, and he could have obviously blamed Senator Sanders and, you know, next week, he could be blaming Secretary Clinton.

You know, when you're running for office, there is a level of responsibility that goes with being the candidate, and while you might not be able to control what 10,000 or 20,000 people do, if you're blowing the dog whisr1e morning, noon and night, saying things out of your mouth that you can control that may tend to incite or excite people in a negative way, you have to take responsibility for that. He takes responsibility for nothing.

He's immediately pawned it off on Senator Sanders and says nothing of any substance to his own supporters, when he should take a moment to say, look, cut it out. We'll not stand for, end of conversation.

HARLOW: To be clear here, someone from his team did that last night over the loud speaker.

NUTTER: It's not him.

HARLOW: I hear, I'm just saying what the campaign said.

(CROSSTALK)

NUTTER: There will be more than a few protests whether at his rallies or from my perspective God forbid, I was sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania, there's a demonstration every day. You have to send the right message.

HARLOW: Bill, do you think Sanders is being helped in a sense by this, that this will energize his supporters or those on the fence to get out to the polls for him, given these Trump attacks?

PRESS: First, I must say that I'm surprised that Donald Trump didn't find a way to blame this on President Obama, because he blames everything else on President Obama, so aside from that --

HARLOW: Not going to have to run against President Obama. He might have to run against Sanders.

PRESS: I'll tell you -- I think we are all hurt by this, the American political system is hurt by this. Donald Trump has not helped, Bernie has not helped, the whole crowd is hurt by this.

It's disgusting, it's appalling, it is dangerous and let's be very clear. There's only one person responsible, come on, just cut it. I mean, he can blame whomever he wants.

It's Donald Trump at the podium who has said I'd like to punch that guy in the face myself. I'd like to see them carried out on stretchers, right? You know, I remember the good old days when crowds used to beat up on protesters.

Words have consequences, you know, goes back to Proverbs, you sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. And that's what's going on.

And I think we just got to get away from playing this game of Donald Trump and say he is the most irresponsible politician we've ever seen on the scene. He's the one instigating it and he's the only one who can stop it, the only one. And he can do it.

HARLOW: Nia, let's talk about stopping it as we look at Bernie Sanders, some images of him speaking live there tonight in Columbus, ahead of our town hall. Do you, from the Trump supporters that you have spoken with, do you believe he can stop it if he were to come out and say what Mayor Nutter wants to hear from him? Will they all just stop or is this a group that is just going to say what they think?

HENDERSON: I think the group is going to say what they think. They're angry as we've heard many, many times before, very much attached to Donald Trump but I think for the good of the country, for the good of just how people feel, I mean, it was scary to watch all those images on TV for everyone I imagine.

So, I think come out and say listen, let's have a calm rally. We've had fun at these rallies. Let's just kind of calm this down --

PRESS: Cool it.

HENDERSON: Just cool it a bit, lower the temperature.

HARLOW: All right. I've got to take a break. Lots better with and you have a commercial to think it through. We'll get to that next.

Coming up, Bernie Sanders out to prove his surprise win in Michigan was just the beginning of perhaps a Rust Belt revolt. He is rallying Ohio voters ahead of the CNN Democratic town hall tonight.

[18:20:04] And this moment stunned a crowd at a Donald Trump event yesterday. What happened may have been more shocking. Trump accused the man who stormed the stage of being an ISIS sympathizer. Our very own Martin Savidge sat down with that man to ask him all about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOMMY DIMASSIMO, RUSHED STAGE AT TRUMP RALLY: I'm in no way harmed anyone, intended to harm anyone. I'm not a member of ISIS. I have no known ties to ISIS. I've never been out of the country, I only speak English.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christian?

DIMASSIMO: Christian, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our exclusive interview with the man who rushed the stage ahead. What else he said about why he did it and what happens next, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. You're looking at live pictures of Senator Bernie Sanders at a rally that is in Columbus, Ohio. He's speaking before taking the stage tonight at CNN's town hall debate with Hillary Clinton, moderated by our Jake Tapper.

Let's listen in.

SANDERS: -- what the average contribution is?

I love that. I really do, when I hear that -- $27.

[18:25:10] When I talk about a political revolution transforming America, that is already one of the things that we have accomplished, what we have told everybody, guess what? You can run a winning national campaign without being dependent on Wall Street or the drug companies' money.

(CHEERS)

I like that.

(CHANTING)

(CHEERS)

You know what? You're right!

HARLOW: Our Jeff Zeleny is covering this Bernie Sanders event and covering the campaign ahead the town hall tonight. Look, this is a moment for them to take questions from Ohio voters directly. It's always so nice to sort of see that side, not just the debate format.

But when you look at the numbers, Jeff, I mean, the math is on Hillary Clinton's side right now in terms of delegate support, but you know what? The younger voters may come out for Sanders because this ruling by a judge in Ohio that 17-year-olds can vote might change things. Does that have the Clinton camp nervous?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, the Clinton campaign is definitely nervous. And because of those young voters as you said, that could offset some students who are actually on spring break next week. Not all students in Ohio but some are on spring break, because the 17-year-olds being able to vote is helpful.

But the Clinton campaign is more nervous about that chant you just heard, you could hear the crowds here going really supporting Bernie Sanders because he doesn't have a super PAC. They said Bernie Sanders has our back, he doesn't have a super PAC. It sounds kind of trite but one thing that's really driving this campaign, the money in politics is such a big issue in this campaign and it's one of the best ways for Bernie Sanders to show he's an outsider, to say that he doesn't have a super PAC. So, the Clinton campaign is definitely nervous about Ohio, nervous

about Illinois and Missouri. Those are three states that could be very close on Tuesday.

HARLOW: Do you think, Jeff, that it will be, if either way it falls in Ohio, is it going to come down -- we know the economy is issue number one, that's what the polling shows for Democratic voters. Is it going to come down to the trade issue like it appears it did in Michigan?

ZELENY: Certainly those trade issues are very important here in Ohio. I think Ohio is a little different. The economy is much more diverse than Michigan's economy.

Ohio's economy is doing much better than the auto industry in Michigan, of course, but it is those for Democratic voters, the trade policies are very controversial. In fact, we could hear Senator Sanders talking about it right now behind me the trade policies are that are really troublesome for the Clinton campaign.

She's been opposed to some trade agreements. She supported some other trade agreements, but the NAFTA trade agreement that Bernie Sanders is talking about right now is a real challenge for the Clinton campaign here in Ohio and in other states, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, you wonder what it's going to mean just for the entire Rust Belt, what will it mea for Illinois where Clinton is in the lead, how big does this get and the policies that she supported are the policies she supported. So, there's only so much for her team to argue there. We'll watch it.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much, live from the Bernie Sanders event in Columbus.

We are also waiting for Donald Trump to take the stage at a campaign event in South Florida. You're looking at live pictures from the Sunset Cove amphitheater in Boca Raton. You know, security there is tight after hat took place this weekend especially in Chicago on Friday night. We will take you there live to listen to Trump as soon as he starts speaking.

First, though, switching gears. A local writer takes us to one of Atlanta's most relaxing getaways where business travelers can recharge while on the road. It is something fun to do while you are off the clock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE PARHAM KORDSMEIER, FREELANCE FOOD AND TRAVEL WRITER: Hi, I'm Kate Parham Kordsmeier, a food and travel writer based here in Atlanta. Today I'm taking you to one of my favorite hidden gems in the city, Jeju Sauna. It's a Korean spa perfect for business travelers looking to unwind, detox and relax.

There are ton of mind/body/health benefits you get from the saunas. And each has a specific purpose. Some are great for increasing blood flow, some help with stress and tension relief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Korea, there's thousands of these but they're smaller.

[18:30:01] And my mom wanted to bring her culture, her tradition here to this area more like a destination spa now. There's nothing like it. Plus it's really, really healthy for your body.

My favorite two rooms are the first two that you see in here. One is made out of amethyst and all precious stones. It's really good for calming and relaxation. The second one is a salt sauna. It's made out of rock Himalayan salt. It is really good for detox.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love going into the rooms doing some yoga poses, meditating, it's really a unique experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Just over one hour from now the Democratic presidential candidates will take questions from Jake Tapper and from the audience at CNN's town hall event tonight in Columbus, Ohio. The Ohio State University hosting the event tonight.

Take a look, live look at these pictures. This is where Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will try to convince voters they are the right person to nominate for president. This comes ahead of Super Tuesday three as it has become called. Those primaries in Florida and Ohio, winner-take-all states, along with Illinois, Missouri and North Carolina, in total 691 delegates are up for grabs on Tuesday.

The Republicans also looking for the same states for their own delegates. They're trying to get more in the bag. Frontrunner Donald Trump trying to shake off protests and some of those violent rallies that happened over the weekend. He is expected to take the stage at any moment in Boca Raton, Florida. Security has been ramped up for this event.

With us now CNN political reporter Sara Murray.

What are you seeing after the canceled rally in Chicago on Friday night and then a lot of protesters showing up last night in Kansas City?

[18:35:02] SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And Poppy, it's a little bit of a calmer atmosphere here in Florida, which I think is kind of what you would expect. We're in Boca, we're sort of out here in the suburbs. On the way in there was a group of protesters and they were certainly lively, but there was no sort of tense -- really very tense interaction, no physical interaction between them and the Trump supporters.

And I will tell you there is a sizeable number of officers out there who are monitoring that very closely. They are actually shooting video of it essentially to sort of ensure that it doesn't escalate from where it is.

Now inside we do see a visible security presence as you would expect. I would say it is about on par with what we saw yesterday in Ohio. It hasn't really scaled up from there. And as you might expect the Trump campaign is not really eager to talk about their security presence. Of course when he arrives he will have Secret Service with him. We already see them securing the stage. But the campaign isn't interested in commenting on how they plan to scale up security or not, Poppy.

HARLOW: Is he responding at all, Sara, to the protester that rushed the stage yesterday in Columbus, in Ohio? Our Marty Savidge, as you know, just interviewed him and denied any sort of link to ISIS that Donald Trump tweeted about this morning. Any word from the Trump camp on that?

MURRAY: We have asked the campaign about that. We have yet to hear back from them. Of course he did a television interview earlier today where he essentially said he saw it on the Internet and so he believed it, but we're still waiting to hear whether they have any more of a statement on that in light of this interview that Martin Savidge did, in light of the fact that this man says he has no affiliation with ISIS.

But, you know, we have seen this with Donald Trump. He has a tendency to re-tweet things or put things out there that he finds on the Internet without him or his staff really doing any kind of vetting so this seems to be another incident of that -- Poppy.

HARLOW: All right. Sara Murray live in Boca. We'll come back to you as soon as Donald Trump starts to speak. Sara, thank you.

Also looking ahead to Super Tuesday three, that is what they are calling it now, we've got those five states, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina, Missouri, Ohio, all voting on Tuesday. A lot of delegates up for grabs. We will have all day coverage on CNN.

Coming up, a preview of a fascinating new CNN original series and the political lessons learned from an election held more than 150 years ago. Abraham Lincoln versus Steven Douglas, the fascinating similarities between that race and what we are seeing play out right now, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:57] HARLOW: In the upcoming episode of CNN's original series "RACE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE" we revisit the election of 1860 and the bitter matchup between Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas. A race defined by vicious mudslinging, heated debates and racially charged attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN SPACEY, HOST: Douglas focuses his attack on Lincoln.

STEPHEN DOUGLAS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you desire negro citizenship then support Mr. Lincoln and the black Republican Party.

SPACEY: His weapon, race hate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He accuses Lincoln of being in favor of race mixing, in favor of black equality, calls him a black Republican. He calls him things far worse.

PAUL BEGALA: Lincoln did a lot of things that today seem unethical but he never appealed to the darker angels of our nature and Douglas did. And Stephen Douglas should have been ashamed of himself.

SPACEY: The very union itself is coming apart under the pressure of the election. Down south the homes of Republican sympathizers are attacked.

PROF. ALLEN GUELZO, GETTYSBURG COLLEGE: The prospect of a Lincoln presidency drives southerners to extremes. They prepare politically, they prepare militarily. Their state arsenals are opened up, their militia companies begin to drill.

SPACEY: One newspaper declares, "Let the boys arm." Abolitionism is at your doors with torch and knife in hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: It is fascinating episode, I must say so, and to talk to us about it, historian Tim Naftali, the former director of the Nixon Presidential Library and author of that book, "George H.W. Bush: The American President Series."

So nice to have you.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, FORMER DIRECTOR, NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: Great to be here, Poppy.

HARLOW: It is -- when you start watching the series, you know, two so far, the second one airs tomorrow night -- tonight. It pulls you in so, so much. It's fascinating. And I just wonder we keep hearing about the Lincoln-Douglas debates. At least, you know, this isn't the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Do you think that -- I mean, look what we just heard right there. We're sort of romanticizing what it was like back then in those debates a little bit too much.

NAFTALI: Well, yes and no. We are romanticizing the fact that Stephen Douglas used very divisive language but we're not romanticizing the fact that Abraham Lincoln, who had been a congressman, but that's all, becomes a national figure because of the power of his rhetoric, not because he's a blowhard.

HARLOW: Right.

NAFTALI: It's not by screaming. It's by persuasion.

HARLOW: It's his words. He even didn't have the appearance as you see in this of presidential at all. NAFTALI: No, and he comes to Cooper Union here in New York City and

he's unkempt and his audience is moved not by how he looks, but what he says, and what he says is, remember the "Declaration of Independence." Remember the fact that it doesn't say we're all created equal but African-Americans or negroes, as they would say then, but all of us, and what does that mean and what does that mean for our country?

He not only repeated that phrase but he gave reasons why the political culture of this country had to change. That's why we have good reason to romanticize those debates and the fact that this man was chosen as the national candidate for a new Republican Party.

HARLOW: Right, and let's talk about conventions ahead of all of this talk right now in this election of potentially a brokered convention on the Republican side, you see the race of 1860 as a reminder of when conventions mattered.

NAFTALI: Yes, and the importance of good alcohol, as viewers will see tonight. Alcohol played a little bit of a role, and I assume that alcohol is pretty good in Cleveland, as well.

Conventions mattered. That was a time -- that was a time before there were primaries. That was a time before Americans participated to the extent that they participate today. In that era, you had groups of delegates who were controlled by party bosses and the party bosses were from various parts of the country and the idea was to convince the party boss to support you.

[18:45:08] HARLOW: Right.

NAFTALI: So you had to say, well, you'll be a cabinet member, you'll be a cabinet secretary.

HARLOW: Sure. And Lincoln actually wrote that he didn't want to hear about that at all.

NAFTALI: He was great. He understood presidential deniability. He had --

HARLOW: Don't even tell me about it.

NAFTALI: No. You'll see.

HARLOW: Yes.

NAFTALI: Don't -- do what you do but make it clear that, you know, I'm not -- I'm not involved.

HARLOW: Right. Right.

NAFTALI: Here is the thing that's most important tonight. It's watch the change in Stephen Douglas. Stephen Douglas of the Lincoln-Douglas debates. He is going to be the Democratic candidate in the 1860 election. The Democratic Party splits over the slavery issue. Stephen Douglas is vicious in attacking Abraham Lincoln because he says to Lincoln, you treat African-Americans, negroes as they were called then, as if they were equals. They're not our equals.

When he realizes the power of his rhetoric and the effect that it's having on his country, or our country, he shifts, not that he begins to embrace equality for all but he stops the attacks in the 1860 campaign. He recognized the power of rhetoric and how you can tear this country apart, if you say things without thinking.

HARLOW: Fascinating, comparing it to today, right?

NAFTALI: I think so.

HARLOW: We'll watch tonight. It is fantastic.

Timothy, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

And you can watch more of the political drama, the upcoming episode of "RACE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE." It is tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN. You will not want to miss it. Moderated by that voice that you cannot mistake, Kevin Spacey.

Coming up next, my interview with the billionaire head of a giant Silicon Valley company. Surprisingly in the middle of the interview he gave me his endorsement for 2016. Who is he backing and why? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:31] HARLOW: He is an outspoken CEO. He does not mince his words.

Marc Benioff, the head of Silicon Valley tech giant Salesforce, sat down with me this week and he gave me his take on a lot of things, including the 2016 race. What candidate he's backing for president and more. Here's our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: You don't qualify yourself or classify yourself as a Democrat or a Republican, correct?

MARC BENIOFF, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, SALESFORCE: I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I'm an American. And I learned along the way that that's where I'm most effective as the CEO of Salesforce.

HARLOW: You like anyone in this race right now? Are you backing anyone?

BENIOFF: I do. I like Hillary Clinton. I like somebody who is experienced and somebody who has the depth of understanding. And mostly the reason I like Hillary Clinton is because I believe that if we don't focus on the education of our children, especially in pre-K, in the zero to 5 years, that we are going to create more inequality in this world and a lot of inequality comes out of not getting our kids off on the right track.

You probably know I funded two major children's hospitals here in the bay area in San Francisco and Oakland. I've also put programs into those children's hospitals to get kids on to the right track from an educational standpoint. And I like Hillary because she's deeply committed to getting kids on to the right track and I think this is our number one issue in fighting inequality today.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this. HP CEO Meg Whitman came out last week and she said that Donald Trump is, quote, "a dishonest demagogue," and she went on to say, quote, "his plan to put a 35 percent tariff on goods imported would sink this country into a recession."

Is she right?

BENIOFF: Well, I think that's probably true. You know, I -- I think that you can look to and you can shift to the economic system very rapidly in this discussion. I want to shift this discussion to the education system. I'm deeply worried about the kids. I'm deeply worried about the kids that are being born right now. I want to make sure those kids get off from the right track.

By 5 years old your destiny in this country is set. By 5 years old. That research is black and white. And I think that we've got to focus on that fact and that's where I am disappointed that I haven't heard more of that narrative, and I feel like the one person who has delivered that discussion over and over again, including her Too Small to Fail initiative is Hillary Clinton and that's why I'm backing her.

HARLOW: Would we ever see Marc Benioff run for elected office? Marc Benioff for president, vice president, senator?

BENIOFF: No. No. You can see that I am anything but a politician. And what I am really good at is I think being the CEO of a software company. And that's what I enjoy doing. But I think for people like you, and others, friends of mine, who know me, no, I am quite not a politician.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Marc Benioff, thank you for that. Much more of my interview with him including his calls and what he is doing to close the gender pay gap at his company, just go to CNNMoney.com.

Coming up, a close look at this Democratic delegate math on Super Tuesday 3, as they're calling it.

You are also looking at live pictures of Bernie Sanders speaking at a rally in Columbus, Ohio, before he heads over to our town hall tonight. Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:38] HARLOW: We want to look ahead to Super Tuesday 3, as they're calling it. What is at stake for the Democrats when voters go to the polls this Tuesday? Up for grabs, nearly 30 percent of the delegates needed to clinch the nomination.

Our chief national correspondent John King takes a look at the numbers -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, the big question of the Democratic race, can Bernie Sanders become a viable contender for the nomination or is he just a message candidate?

Let's take a look at the stakes on Tuesday. Five states up for the Democrats, and big ones, there you see them. Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri. Let's take a look at the delegates at stake, 691 delegates. That's 29 percent of what it takes to win the nomination. So a big day Tuesday gets you on the path to winning.

And let's look at how we start. Hillary Clinton with a healthy delegate lead right now. These are pledged delegates only. She has a healthy delegate lead. What she wants to make the point, even after setback Michigan last week, what she's hoping to do, Poppy, run the board.

If Hillary Clinton wins all five, even by relatively modest margins, she will start to stretch it out. Democratic rules proportional. So Senator Sanders will still stay in the hunt. But the Clinton campaign and most Democrats will tell you, if she ends Tuesday somewhere out here, yes, a long way to go. Yes, she probably can't clinch until May or June, but the math here, and the map, convincing win -- two convincing wins in the Midwest, her dominance in the south, the math and map here would say Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee.

Bernie Sanders can stay in but he can't win which is why this is so important. He won Michigan last week. If Bernie Sanders can win in Ohio, and if Bernie Sanders with upset Hillary Clinton in her birth state of Illinois, if the map looks like this, look, the math doesn't change all that dramatically because of those proportional rules. Hillary Clinton will still be ahead if Bernie Sanders wins these two states in the Midwest. But the conversation will change.

If Bernie Sanders can win three big industrial battle grounds in the Midwest, yes, Hillary Clinton will still have a lead in the delegate chase. But can you bet, Poppy, the conversation among Democrats will change. Bernie Sanders will get a lot more attention. There'll be a lot of talk, is Hillary Clinton weak? So if the map looks like this late Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, there will be a lot of buzz about Sanders. What the Clinton campaign is hoping is that it looks instead like this. And she can say, Michigan was a surprise. Threat over. I'm in command -- Poppy.

HARLOW: John, thank you so much for that.

Do not miss John's show, "INSIDE POLITICS." That is every Sunday morning, must-watch television right here on CNN.

It is 7:00 p.m. Eastern on Sunday night and what a night we have for you here on CNN. Welcome to CNN's special coverage --