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Suspect in Paris Terrorist Attack Arrested; Conservatives Plot to Stop Trump; Firefighter Goes Beyond Call of Duty. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 18, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:32:08] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Major breaking news here on CNN on this Friday afternoon. We have now confirmed the so-called eighth attacker in the Paris terror attacks from last November has, in fact, just been captured, and he is alive. He is Salah Abdeslam, and apparently he's been living in this home, in this apartment in Belgium, so not too far from France, for the last four months. We have some video just in. I can't tell you who the person is who we're seeing obviously being pulled in this vehicle, but clearly someone has been apprehended and is being taken in by law enforcement here in Molenbeek, which is a community just outside of the capital city of Brussels. As we look at this, let me stress this is far from over. We were just talking to a correspondent on the ground in the community. Shots are still being fired, explosions still going off, even though two people have been apprehended, including this eighth attacker. We have an eye on what's happening there in the community.

But I do want to bring in Michael Weiss, who has been sitting here with me, who can talk a little bit more about this. We also have Congresswoman Jane Harman standing by as well, former California Congresswoman.

Michael Weiss, think it's important to you first to remind people. We had this conversation after "Charlie Hebdo" and we had this conversation after what happened in November. Why Belgium and parts of France as well as these hotbed locations for terrorism?

MICHAEL WEISS, SENIOR EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST: Well there are whole communities within these cities, these capital cities in Europe who have given themselves over to a sort of ghettoized radical mobilization. It's in London you have areas where extremist clerics are preaching from mosques in broad daylight. These are recruitment for jihadis. A lot of the foreign fighters who have gone to join ISIS either from Belgium or France or Germany come from communities like this. That's not to say there's a socioeconomic driver. There's this myth that terrorists come from poverty. A lot of the guys had attended very elite universities or schools. They came from middle to upper middle class backgrounds. But there is this kind of milieu that has been sort of, you know, driving this ideology. So it's not at all surprising to see that, you know, Brussels and Molenbeek in particular is where the action has taken place.

BALDWIN: Congresswoman, you've watched the coverage and the significant capture. What do you make of everything?

JANE HARMAN, PRESIDENT & CEO, THE WOODROW WILSON CENTER & FORMER CALIFORNIA CONGRESSWOMAN: Well, it's a big deal, not only the person captured arrive, and even if he doesn't talk, it's significant he was captured alive. But who captured him. The Belgians have been the weak link here. Let's understand, in the E.U. system, there are open borders, the Shengen system, and because of that system, because Belgium has been the swamp, Belgium has these folks have congregated and launched attacks in France. Now if the Belgians are developing trade craft, and they apparently are, that enabled them to take out these people that swamp could be drained. And this will improve, not eliminate, the climate, and reduce the number of terror attacks. We should assume that this could generate a lot of copycat attacks, and that there are other sleeper cells, probably, in, I would say, in Brussels, and maybe in parts of Paris. These parts we just described. Required but Belgium's getting better. The French are very good. And obviously the U.S. is providing what assistance we can.

[14:36:00] BALDWIN: I mean, the Congresswoman makes an excellent point. We talked a lot about that in the wake of the attacks, the open borders, the fact that Abdeslam with two other associates were in a car stopped by authorities, passed through a checkpoint. I don't know if he was quite named a suspect at the time. The fact he's been living in this community four months, you know, I'm wondering -- I was just asking Bob Baer and I'd love your perspective, the fact hunted by law enforcement, A, but also the fact that either his suicide vest didn't detonate or he got cold feet, we don't know, would he also be wanted by ISIS because he did not fulfill his mission so he could not go to Syria.

WEISS: It seems an irony, hiding in plain sight. It happens all the time. Look, Osama bin Laden was living in a Pakistani town right under the nose of the Pakistani government for how ever many years. Abumassab al Zarqawi (ph) was caught in about a 15-minute helicopter ride away from the base of the U.S. Special forces that actually killed him, very nearby where, you know, the U.S. occupation had its sort of central hub in Iraq. This happens a lot. Why? Because as others have alluded to, when you move, you know, even under the Shengen system, you raise red flags. The mastermind, remember, after the attack, they published an article, only published after the event, of which he was boasting of how easy it was to slip the dragnet. You had a pan-European hunt for this man who had been implemented in prior terror attacks that were not successful. He laughed and said I had a fake I.D. and they let me through. Now, because there was this continent-wide, global manhunt for Abdeslam, he would have been an idiot to leave that radius.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: It made sense for him to stay close.

WEISS: Absolutely. The second point, and this is interesting, because a lot of us assumed he was persona non grata for one of two reasons. Number one, he chickened out. He was visibly upset and weeping accord to eyewitnesses. He was the driver but he also had a suicide vest, which did not detonate, and was found in a trash can. Number two, this didn't get attention at the time, but outlets like the "British Sunday Times" reported on it. He was known to have frequented the gay district of Brussels and bartenders at various gay bars are on record saying we thought he was a prostitute because he was here so often mingling with the crowd. Whether or not that was true or intelligence planting stories designed to make him terrified. You can imagine, if he's been outted as a homosexual, he's not going back to the caliphate. All of this has been dispelled. He was very in good order with ISIS. As Paul pointed out before, he was domiciled with one of the -- two of the major operatives, including the guy calling the shot --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: The guy who was killed on Tuesday.

WEISS: And he was armed with a Kalashnikov, so it's not like they were holding him.

I will make one final point. This is the most significant catch in the entirety of the war. I even made people caught inside Syria and Iraq. Why? Because they're putting this renewed emphasis on foreign operations. They're looking to strike. Can tell you interviews I've conducted with U.S. intelligence officials, national security types, this is the big concern. It's not even much what's happening in the Levant in Mesopotamia, it's what are they going to do next. In Europe, I was told Italy and Spain are two countries they are hearing chatter about with respect to ISIS. Abdeslam will be able to give them they can retro engineer.

BALDWIN: The question is, will he talk, will he give up information?

WEISS: Sure. Sure.

BALDWIN: Stay with me, Michael. I love all your points.

I do want to go to Belgium right now because we have Gabriele Steinhauser, a reporter with the "Wall Street Journal," in this community where the activity is taking place in Molenbeek, just outside the capital city.

I want you to start, Gabriele, with tell me what you're still seeing and hearing, activity among law enforcement.

[14:40:10] GABRIELE STEINHAUSER, REPORTER, WALL STREET JOURNAL: OK, I'm standing right here outside the cordoned off area. Police are mostly calm. There are a lot of people standing by. There are a few skirmishes between police and local youth who have been throwing stuff, causing a little bit of mayhem. A little while ago, we heard two loud bangs. Unclear if they were explosions, gunshots or maybe some, you know, police action to district people. But it's generally quiet.

BALDWIN: OK, and we're looking at some of your pictures you've tweeted out there from the scene. Let me ask you, because you've also did reporting on -- this goes back to the raid on Tuesday. We were just discussing a senior is official who had extreme involvement in the coordinated terrorist attacks in Paris. He was the one engaged in opening fire on law enforcement. He was killed. That is when Abdeslam and other individuals slipped out through the roof. And we know two other individuals have been caught. They knew, Gabriele, that at least Abdeslam had been in that apartment because they found his fingerprints, correct, tell me what you learned about where his fingerprints were found.

STEINHAUSER: So, indeed, there was a raid on Tuesday in an apartment in another district here in Brussels, and four police were injured, one man was killed, and it was revealed today the man who was killed was also wanted in connection wit the Paris attacks. He was seen before the attacks with Abdeslam who was obviously the attacks. Prosecutors also said they found fingerprints of Salah Abdeslam in the apartment. According to one police officer, on a glass, which suggested he had been there very recently. Then they suddenly had a fresh track.

BALDWIN: And that led them ultimately to what we've been reporting on for the last couple of hours, the fact that they got him and they got him alive.

Gabriele, thank you so much.

Michael Weiss, thank you so much.

Former Congresswoman Jane Harman, thank you. President and CEO of the Woodrow Wilson Center, thank you so much.

Much more on this story out of Belgium, the key terror suspect, the eighth attacker, captured alive. What authorities hope to learn. A potential wealth of information if he talks.

Plus, in politics today, it is Donald Trump versus the Republican establishment. We've been reporting on this closed-door meeting held to discuss something very specific, how to stop Trump from winning the party's nomination. How do they plan to do that?

You're watching CNN.

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[14:47:17] BALDWIN: We will take you back to Belgium here momentarily. We have a news conference from the Belgium prosecutor we're going to bring you live as we get new details as this eighth attacker in the coordinated Paris terror attacks from last fall has been caught and has been caught alive.

Meantime, to a turning point for Republicans trying to stop the presidential nomination of Donald Trump. Their denial is now shifting to desperation. And they're asking this question, is it too late? Still, anti-Trump conservatives are plotting the next steps and there's talk of what's been called a unity ticket. They hope the combined report for Trump's rivals can keep Trump from netting that 1,237 delegates he needs to clinch the party's nomination. If they succeed, the GOP could face a new challenge.

Listen to what one of his top aides told CNN today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM CLOVIS: I will tell you this, if the Republican Party comes into that convention and jimmies with the rules and take away the will of the people, the will of the Republicans and Democrats and the Independents who have voted for Mr. Trump, I will take off my credentials and I will leave the floor of that convention and I will leave the Republican Party forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow. Let me turn to the author of "George H.W. Bush, the American President Series," Tim Naftali, who is the former director of the Nixon Presidential Library and a professor at NYU; also, A.B. Stoddard, associate editor of "The Hill"; and CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter, who used to serve as communications director for Senator Cruz.

Welcome and happy Friday.

A.B., let me begin you with here on this whole notion of the unity ticket. At this the meeting behind closed doors, apparently this unit ticket would be Ted Cruz and John Kasich. What is the logic of how these two could actually stop Trump?

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE HILL: Well, look, I don't think that they can win more delegates than Donald Trump going forward, but they might be able to stop him from reaching 1,237 before the they're already in a kind of unity ticket because they're not criticizing each other. You hear Cruz say he's the only one who can stop Trump but they're not attacking each other because they know they're better off with each other in the race. They'll amass more delegates combined than if one of them it was try to go against Trump and they'll make it more possible that he's stopped before the convention. But both of them have only one path and that is contested convention. Neither one is going to get the delegates to storm hp him now. I think Paul Ryan, the House speaker, is right, you have to run for president to become president. I think people in those meetings desperate to stop Trump, have concluded it would have to be somebody, not Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan, who's run in this cycle and, you know, is left standing. So it would have to be Kasich and Cruz combined or one of them maybe with someone else who's also run in this cycle.

[14:50:13] BALDWIN: You mentioned Paul Ryan. Let me just get to what he has said. The U.S. House speaker said this about the convention in Cleveland. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN, (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Nothing's changed other than the perception that this is more likely to become an open convention than we thought before. So we're getting our minds around the idea this could very well become a reality and therefore those of us involved in the convention need to respect that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Amanda, that's to you, you know, here Ryan is not only the U.S. House speaker, he is the, you know, chair of the RNC convention. And he's admitting it will be open. What does that say about the state of the Republican Party?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He says we're still struggling to see what our heart and soul is, what direction are we going to go. This has been a very divisive primary season. We had a lot of candidates. We started out with 17 people duking it out. Finally it's getting down to three. And people are scared that Donald Trump will be the nominee. The reason it's going to be open. The reason why Donald Trump may not clinch that precious 1,237 number is because people aren't unifying behind him. He has a strong group of supporters, but I think there's more people who are willing to go against that and say, no, I don't think this is the direction we're going to go, we're ready for something else. If it has to go to the convention, we'll do that.

BALDWIN: Side note, and I think A.B. sort of hit on this. When we talk about, yes, Paul Ryan, very highly respected. He's the speaker of the House. But he lost. Mitt Romney lost. Mitt Romney's been out and about and he's been talking and he's been part of this, you know, anti-Trump effort as well. But, you know, also the whole notion of too little too late. They've ignored Trump for months and months. One hand, why even listen to what those two are suggesting?

TIM NAFTALI, NYU PROFESSOR & FORMER DIRECTOR, RICHARD NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: First of all, Paul Ryan is the most powerful Republican in the country. He's the speaker of the House, so he is the leader of the party. It doesn't matter that he lost -- he was the undercard in 2012. Let it be said, however, that no one has gone from being speaker of the House to becoming president. A former speaker of the House, James Polk, became president, but no one has gone from the job to become president. Here's the problem. And we should all understand this. There's no playbook. There's no playbook for this situation. When they talk about an open convention, what they mean is a contested convention. There hasn't been one since the 1960s. Maybe 1976 could have been but in the end Reagan was defeated by Ford. So the GOP doesn't have people old enough to remember when there were really contested conventions. That's one. Secondly, the Trump campaign, the Trump movement is a runaway train. As we know, it's hard to stop runaway trains in a beautiful soft way. And nobody understands, nobody has figured out the movement, nobody in the leadership, the GOP, predicted the movement, and now to think they can predict how to stop the movement, well, time will tell, but the odds are not great.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You're not buying this unity ticket idea?

NAFTALI: Well, the unity ticket is possible, but it depends on one, whether governor Kasich or Senator Cruz can check his ego at the door and say, OK, I'll be number two.

(CROSSTALK)

NAFTALI: Because you see the reason why this is a perfect storm, I believe, for the GOP, was you had a bunch of people who were -- who thought they could be and should be president. And as the Trump movement gathered momentum, few of them were willing to step back and say, no, I'll be number two this time. Or I'll throw my support behind whether it would be Senator Cruz or Senator Rubio or back before Governor Bush. But nobody did that. So what you've got now is two men, governor Kasich and Senator Cruz, both of whom think they should be on the top of the unity ticket. Until they figure that out, there is no unity ticket.

BALDWIN: Tim Naftali, professor, thank you.

NAFTALI: My pleasure, Brooke.

BALDWIN: A.B. Stoddard, thank you, and Amanda Carpenter. Thanks, Ladies, very much.

Back to our breaking news here. Back to Belgium. This key fugitive really who has been the most wanted fugitive in the world these last few months, the so-called eighth attacker in the Paris terror attacks has been captured alive. We're expecting a news conference from the Belgium prosecutor coming up in mere minutes. We will take it live. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:24] BALDWIN: First responders are heroes for each and every call they respond to but we have to share this story of one firefighter who went beyond the call of duty.

Miguel Marquez has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SIRENS)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For firefighter Ryan McCuen, every call, a mystery. In February, one call bowled him over.

RYAN MCCUEN, DETROIT FIRE DEPARTMENT: I just happened to be put in that spot to do what I was supposed to do.

MARQUEZ: McCuen's squad arrived at this mobile home in suburban Detroit. In the living room, 18-year-old Troy Stone, suffering a severe type of muscular dystrophy, needing a ventilator to breathe, electricity to the home cut off.

(on camera): Without electricity, how long would Troy live?

CHRISTY STONE, MOTHER OF TROY STONE: I'm not sure but it wouldn't be too long.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Christy and her husband have five kids. Two have muscular dystrophy. For Troy, breathing IS so difficult it takes seven machines, all running on electricity, to keep him alive.

STONE: He's been through a lot. I'm sorry.

MARQUEZ: Christy's husband, out of a job for a year and a half, now working, the family still struggling.

STONE: Ryan was standing there and he looks at me and goes, I'm going to pay your electric bill. I was just like, are you serious?

MARQUEZ: He was. McCuen paid all $1,023.76 of it.

MCCUEN It seemed obvious what the solution was. They just needed their bill paid.

MARQUEZ: A good deed from a guy in no position to do it. McCuen himself was laid off four years, rehired two years ago. Last year, he married Andrea and they just had their first. That's 3-month-old Camilla.

ANDREA MCCUEN, WIFE OF RYAN: He never -- surprises me when he does something nice. It's just -- it's Ryan.

MARQUEZ: McCuen's act of kindness made the local paper, sparking a round of help.

A routine call --

STONE: Ryan's his hero he said.

MARQUEZ: -- neither will ever forget.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness, Miguel Marquez, oh.

MARQUEZ: It is so sweet, it's so lovely. Everybody asked him why you did it. You see this new and your heart goes out to them. Two kids with this muscular dystrophy. Absolutely lovely. We were all in tears. Even the hard-core photographer we were with --

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: -- absolutely crying. Just a lovely family. And this guy reached out at just the right time and it's really helped them. I get welled up thinking about it now. It's lovely.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: I mean, it says a lot about American. And given all the terrible things that happen in this world --