Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Conservatives Try to Stop Trump; Belgium Police Raid. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired March 18, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gets to fight to make sure that that door does get opened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Find out much more about Brandon's story at cnnheros.com and nominate someone you think should be a 2016 CNN Hero.

Thank you all so much for joining us.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

This is the ebb and flow of the primary season, folks. It goes like this. The people in certain states vote. Everything's counted and analyzed. And then we get in some brand new polls and then it starts all over again with a different bunch of states. This coming Tuesday, the wild west, Arizona, Idaho, Utah.

But these weekly state contests are no small affair. Make no mistake. You can just ask Marco Rubio, who at this time last week, he was still in the race. Remember those - remember those old times? Good times. That Florida senator is now out after Super Tuesday number three, and here is where the remaining Republican candidates are working today, all over those Tuesday voting states.

Democratic Senator Bernie Sanders is also making stops in Arizona, Idaho, and Utah today. Hillary Clinton, for her part, has fundraisers scheduled later today in Connecticut and Virginia. A little further down the pike.

Donald Trump heads into those western states leading his Republican rivals big time in the delegates won so far. But today we're learning just how bad another group wants to see Trump's steam roll come to a stop. Not his fellow candidates, no. Not the Democrats either. I know what you were thinking. Instead, a very powerful group of conservatives who are either already in office or very much in influence. And also today, a surprise endorsement for the campaign of, quote, "anybody but Trump." CNN's Phil Mattingly with that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I don't think you can say that we don't get it automatically. I think it would be - I think you'd have riots.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The GOP upping the pressure on Donald Trump. Two days after the frontrunner's interview on CNN's "New Day" where he warned that riots could erupt if he is denied the Republican nomination after securing the most delegates -

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Nobody should say such things, in my opinion, because to even address or hint to violence is unacceptable.

MATTINGLY: Top conservatives meeting privately in Washington on Thursday, plotting any way to block Trump's path to the nomination, raising the possible of a third party option.

RYAN: It's not going to be me. It should be somebody running for president.

MATTINGLY: House Speaker Paul Ryan again rejecting talk that he could become the Republican nominee through a contested convention.

Trump hitting back at his opponents in his own way, taking to his free attack ad platforms of choice, social media, with a series of posts aimed at Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton. And Trump's fiercest one-time rival Marco Rubio -

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Hopefully it - there's time to still, you know, prevent a Trump nomination.

MATTINGLY: Speaking out for the first time after his bruising loss in Florida.

RUBIO: I'm not going to be anybody's vice president. I'm not - I'm just not going to - I don't want - I'm not interested in being vice president.

MATTINGLY: Saying he's done with politics.

RUBIO: I'm going to finish out my term in the Senate and then I'll be a private citizen in January.

MATTINGLY: And a surprise endorsement for Ted Cruz from South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham after months of colorful digs.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If you're a Republican and your choices is Donald Trump and Ted Cruz in the general election, it's the difference between poison or a shot. You're still dead.

MATTINGLY: Now telling CNN's Dana Bash he's raising money for the Cruz campaign.

GRAHAM: I think the best alternative to Donald Trump to stop him from getting 1,237 is Ted Cruz, and I'm going to help Ted in every way I can.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BANFIELD: Wait, wait, I thought I just heard, Phil, that you had an interview where Dana Bash had something completely different than whether you're poisoned or whether you're shot, you're still dead. Now it's, well, I guess I'd have to back him.

MATTINGLY: I believe at one point Lindsey Graham also said that if somebody shot and killed Ted Cruz on the Senate floor, nobody would be able to be convicted because nobody would actually help him out.

BANFIELD: Nobody would convict though. Yes.

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump creating strange bedfellows, no question about it. But, really, Ashleigh, it underscores the desperation right now. Republican leaders who are trying to stop Donald Trump are feeling - they don't know how to actually get the job done and, therefore, they're trying to line up in any way they possibly can to do anything to stop what up to this point has been unstoppable momentum.

BANFIELD: I feel either you and I have had this conversation before -

MATTINGLY: Ys.

BANFIELD: Or I've had it six times with a whole bunch of other people.

MATTINGLY: It's a broken record, yes.

BANFIELD: They're getting worried, is it too late? This has been going on now for weeks. Is now the question, is it too later?

MATTINGLY: It's -

BANFIELD: I mean, come on. At what point do we stop asking that question?

MATTINGLY: It's a broken record question.

BANFIELD: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Everybody says, no, there's still a potential possibility. Maybe just if we do this pathway or that. The reality here is, either Ted Cruz and John Kasich - John Kasich doesn't really have an opportunity to win it before a convention.

BANFIELD: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Ted Cruz has a small one but he needs to ratchet up the delegates he's winning in a major, major way. The reality is, this would come down to the convention floor. That's what John Kasich is pointing to. That's what top GOP operatives are pointing to. You need to deny Donald Trump's ability to get 1,237 delegates. If you can't do that, it's over.

[12:05:15] And even if you get to the convention floor, that is a risky proposition with a lot of different elements and variables in play. Top Republicans right now likely waited too long and even if they get to the convention floor, they've got a lot more work to do. BANFIELD: You believe what Trump says, problems like you've never seen, bad things would happen, there would be riots.

MATTINGLY: Right.

BANFIELD: Those are pretty ugly words for a presidential candidate.

MATTINGLY: Right.

BANFIELD: For anybody, for crying out loud. My 10-year-old it would be ugly words.

Phil Mattingly, thank you for that.

I want to dig a little deeper into this with Kayleigh McEnany, a CNN political commentator who supports Donald Trump, as well as Tara Setmayer, a commentator who is an uncommitted Republican, and Bob Beckel, an uncommitted Democrat. Thanks to all three of you.

I love that you laugh at that. But, Bob, I'm going to start with you.

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BANFIELD: Phil was just alluding to this unity ticket option. These conservative Republicans all getting together in Washington, some on the phone, some in person, but a big, important group of them saying, oh, dear God, what's the strategy now? And one of the ideas was this unity ticket or some brand-new option all together. Do they have a snowball's chance in you know where of making that work?

BECKEL: Right. They're on the yellow brick road on their way to someplace with Dorothy to find a wizard that's going to change things around. Look, here's the problem. Even if you had an opportunity to do this, you need brokers. People who could deliver something. The Republican Party has no brokers. I'm not sure I even know what the establishment is. So the - my guideline here is, if you - if Trump stays under 1,000 delegates, maybe you could deny him the nomination, but even then I doubt it. If it's over 1,000 delegates and you deny him the nomination, it's going to look like the Democratic Party of 1968. That was the last time we had a brokered convention when Hubert Humphrey was shoved down the throat of the delegates. But they had brokers then. People who could actually deliver. Republicans don't have any. What, Priebus? Is Priebus going to do that? Give me a break.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this, if I can, Kayleigh, there is all sorts of talk now -- Fareed Zakaria has this great write-up on how Republicans are starting to inch their way towards embracing Trump. I think you can read Fareed's piece two different ways. You can think that or you can think that's just them trying not to fully capitulate. However you look at it, "Wall Street Journal" is kind of inching there slightly. Karl Rove inching there slightly. And then you can say this. John McCain, Paul Ryan, Lindsey Graham, for all the things that they have said, not one of those three has said they won't back Trump. Now, I don't know if that means embracing him, but, Kayleigh, does it mean something that only one senator, Jeff Sessions, has actually said he'd back Trump, the others just haven't said they wouldn't? KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I mean, I think

most of these senators recognize that Donald Trump is a threat to their interests. Forever we have had Republicans who have ran an election against big spending, they want to reduce the debt. That's what they tell their constituents. And then they get to Washington and all of a sudden they have pet projects just like the Democrats do. So Donald Trump is a threat to that dynamic.

But I do think you're right, that all of the Republicans who want to beat Hillary Clinton are now inching towards Trump because they realize that a brokered convention seals the deal for Hillary Clinton. Trump supporters will not settle for having their will stifled and rally around a candidate hand-picked by some men in a back room. No one is going to go for that. So candidates who want to beat Hillary Clinton, or elected officials who want to beat Hillary Clinton, are rallying behind Trump because they have to. It's the only option at this point.

BANFIELD: Tara Setmayer, if you look at your today version "The Wall Street Journal," and some of us still do read the hard copy, below the fold there is this itty bitty little piece over here saying, "Clinton coalition takes aim at Trump." And this is 22 liberal organizations, some support Hillary, some support Bernie, all coming together to fight Trump. And what I don't understand is that we're awfully early in that picture because right now those polls say that a Hillary-Trump contest has her beating Trump. So wouldn't they want to propel him into the nomination?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it's a little early to be declaring Donald Trump the winner anyway. Last time I checked, this isn't over. You know, the fact that the Trump supporters in - are trying to push forth this notion that - that we cannot deny the will of the people. You know, Trump, he might as well be - you might as well give it to him because he's almost there.

He's - that's not how it works. There are rules and there are rules in place for a reason. If Donald Trump does not make 1,237 delegates by the convention, then that's why we have conventions. It's a nominating process. There's an open convention and you have more than one ballot. You don't get to just change the rules because you're ahead now. I don't know anywhere where that -where that applies. It doesn't apply in sports. And it also doesn't apply when, if he has 1,000 delegates, well, we should just give it to him. That's not 1,237. We're arguing over a plurality versus a majority. And when you have a plurality, that doesn't - that's not the rules. So where does that apply then?

[12:10:07] So when Donald Trump if, God forbid, becomes presidents, is he going to say, well, it's kind of sort of what the Constitution says, but no, not really, but I - but because it benefits me and what I want to do, then that's why we're going to do it. You either believe in the rule of law and you believe in rules and follow them, or you don't. You don't get to strong arm your way into bullying people to, quote, "fall in line with you" because that's what you feel like doing right now and that's what I feel like (INAUDIBLE) supporters are doing. BANFIELD: Wait, are you talking about politics? Are you talking about the presidential election right now or the Supreme Court nominee process? I'm getting confused.

SETMAYER: No, I'm - no, no. But, wait a minute, what does the Supreme Court nomination have to do with this?

BANFIELD: I'm kidding. Oh, Tara, I'm kidding. I'm so kidding.

SETMAYER: The Constitution is - says very clear.

BANFIELD: Well, it just sounds, if you don't - you either follow the rule of law or you don't. You don't get to bully your way into whatever, blah, blah, blah. But it was adorable (ph).

SETMAYER: Well, that's true, but - but, wait, if you want to stay on the Constitution, the Constitution gives the president equal ability to nominate -

BANFIELD: Yes. Yes.

SETMAYER: And the Senate equal ability to not - to not do it. So that doesn't apply, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I know, but we're not going there. That - that was a joke. I - I have that segment coming up next.

SETMAYER: But the point about strong arming people into changing the rules is important - an important one to make. That's what the Trump people are trying to do.

BANFIELD: OK. So what's interesting is that the three of us have been having this conversation and one big part of this conversation's all been about a contested convention. I would like you to all stay exactly where you're seated right now because there is more to this contested convention talk than even people are talking about. I know that's weird, but one Bernie Sanders let drop this, I don't know, slight bombshell on the TV last night that suggested it's possible there might actually be a contested Democratic convention. I kid you not. We'll go there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:24] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And our breaking news is coming to us out of Belgium right now because there are reports of brand new raids of fire fights, apparently related to the search for the Paris terror suspect Salah Abdeslam. CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank joins me now with the latest.

You've been working your sources and you're finding out it's not only maybe shots fired, but there may be more to this.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: As the result of an armed police operation just moments ago in Brussels, Belgium police have taken two suspected terrorists into custody. They are trying to establish whether one of those suspected terrorists is indeed Salah Abdeslam, one of the on the run Paris attackers. They do not know that for sure at this moment. It's literally just happened. We're breaking this news first on CNN before any other news network in the world, that they have got two people in custody as the result of an armed police operation in Brussels. Those two suspected terrorists were both wounded in this operation.

BANFIELD: Oh, really?

CRUICKSHANK: But they are still alive. They're trying to establish -

BANFIELD: Identity.

CRUICKSHANK: Whether one of them was Salah Abdeslam. That they - they're going to give us a full confirmation on that if they can give it to us. They do not know that for sure yesterday.

BANFIELD: It feels as though the noose has been tightening all this week around him. There was a raid in Brussels earlier this week Tuesday in which they suspected, after finding fingerprints and other things, that he may have been there and may have escaped that actual raid. So this feels very proximate (ph). It feels as though he's been on the run, if, in fact, it is him.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. Flash back to Tuesday afternoon. They went in to this apartment in the (INAUDIBLE) district of Brussels. They had intelligence that that apartment was linked in some way to the Paris attacks. They were not expecting to find anybody at the apartment. But when they tried to get in, there was a lot of gunfire coming through the door. The three terrorists inside started firing at police. The police had to then withdrawal. One of the terrorists stayed in the residence, kept on launching fire at the police. That provided cover for the two other terrorists to escape via the roofs of this residence in Belgium.

BANFIELD: Two of them.

CRUICKSHANK: Two of them on the run.

BANFIELD: So is this the aftermath, the investigation of where they - the path they took out of that apartment?

CRUICKSHANK: This appear to be the aftermath of that investigation.

BANFIELD: Yes. Yes.

CRUICKSHANK: That these appear to be, they hope, the two terrorists that they were trying to get, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So I can only presume that the apartment inside that window, that that SWAT member was climbing out of, was a cache of investigative benefit for them. That it might have actually led them to what we're seeing happen today. This - is this Molenbeek today or where is the - where's the -

CRUICKSHANK: We understand that the police operation was - was in that general area near and around Molenbeek, yes.

BANFIELD: And Molenbeek is really one of the areas that they have focused on so deeply in Belgium after Paris. So many of them having come from there and returned there - or remind me. Oh, and let me just let you know, this is brand new video that's coming in. Wow, this is remarkable stuff. And it is indeed in Molenbeek.

I can only assume this is what we were able to shoot prior to the raid because clearly after the raid it would be a heck of a lot more phrenic. But that's - if we could just turn the - I just want to listen in.

That video is, Paul, that video is just so telling. You know, we've got - you know, raw video coming into us as we speak. So when we get new material up, we'll bring it back.

But we had these reports earlier that there was this fire fight. I don't know if this is prior to or afterwards, but clearly we saw them clearing some people out of that stairwell up into that apartment.

But, again, these two people, who they have in custody, injured, what would be the reason they'd be injured, because they were firing back?

CRUICKSHANK: From what we understand, they were heavily armed. They may have had Kalashnikovs. And so there was a lot of concern after two of these suspected terrorists got away from their safe house, this terrorist den, on Tuesday, that they could launch some kind of attack in - in Brussels.

[12:20:11] BANFIELD: We replaying some of this video, by the way. You can see women being cleared out of this particular location.

CRUICKSHANK: Grave concern. And if they have managed to neutralize a threat from that, that is a huge achievement from the Belgian counter terrorism point of view. They've been cooperating with the French as well in all of this as they've been investigating this around the clock.

We should also say that in that firefights on Tuesday afternoon, now confirmed that the terrorist a Belgian police sniper killed during the operation was Mohammed Belkaid, an Algerian ISIS operative. He is believed to have been the senior kingpin behind the entire conspiracy, a senior figure even to Abdel Hamid Abaaoud, the ringleader on the ground in Paris.

BANFIELD: For the French operation.

CRUICKSHANK: And so they managed to kill him on Tuesday. A key leader that they managed to kill. It may -

BANFIELD: And if he's - by the way, if he's not familiar, that name, Mohammed Belkaid, he was going under the name - or they were going under the name Said - or Samir Bouzid, right, Samir Bouzid. That's who they were looking for and they determined that, oh, no, no, he's got this alias and that's the guy we just killed on Tuesday.

CRUICKSHANK: That's exactly right.

BANFIELD: So we've wiped out one of the operators for sure, even when we didn't realize at the time we were wiping them out.

CRUICKSHANK: He - yes, he's now been neutralized. He's dead. A senior ISIS operative. He'd been on the phone exchanges messages with the Paris attacks during the time of the attacks, coordinating the attacks. He also had a key associate who they were also looking for, a guy who was going by the fake name Sufian Kao (ph). And so the question is, is one of the two people that they have arrested just now Sufian Kao, who was also believed to have played a very senior role in this conspiracy.

Very, very fast-moving developments in Brussels. But they're trying to figure out for sure whether they have now got Salah Abdeslam in custody. Another terrorist in custody. That's, obviously, very good news in terms of the terrorist threat in Belgium, in Europe. But also, could it, in the longer term, provide a wealth of intelligence on this broader ISIS network in Europe who are really ratcheting up their international attack planning.

BANFIELD: Boy, ever.

CRUICKSHANK: This is an absolutely potentially key breakthrough in the war against ISIS.

BANFIELD: And just to remind our viewers who have seen that picture of Abdeslam over and over again. In May (ph), after four months of - since the attack where 130 people were killed, that was November 13, 2015, this is the man they suspect was driving the black Renault Clio. It dropped off three suicide bombers at the Saint-Denis, France, where the first set of bombs went off. No one was killed there other than the bomber. But it is thought that he was wearing a vest at that point and might have been a bomber himself, but for the fact that may he chickened out. His vest was found in a trash can after the fact and then he was nowhere to be found at all. So he has been a key figure.

I'm going to fit in a quick break because we're getting more information into CNN that we want to bring you right away and then Paul's got his sources he's working as well. Back right after this on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:40] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And the breaking news is coming to us via Belgium, where shots being fired in the street raised a lot of alarms given the fact that earlier this week a massive raid not only took out one terrorist who was involved in the Paris terror attacks last November, but two escapees who were on the run may have led to what happened today in the streets.

Our Paul Cruickshank is still here with me. Our Nima Elbagir is on her way to Brussels as we speak. I just want to recap why this is so significant because this police force, this tactical police force closing in on this apartment in the Molenbeek area in Brussels may very well have been on track from what they found in that raid where one man died and he is confirmed to be one of the killers in the terror attack last November in Paris. The other two fled and we now hear two, two people have been hurt in the shootout today.

CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. And hurt in the shootout, two suspected terrorists, two taken into custody. They are trying to confirm whether one of them is Salah Abdeslam. And, of course, our viewers would say, well, how - why wouldn't they know for sure? Well, it's not like he'd be carrying any identity cards. He might have changed his appearance. He's been on the run for months and months and months. So they are trying to confirm at this point whether it is indeed him. And as soon as we have that confirmation, if indeed that confirmation ever comes, we will, of course, get that out as soon as possible.

But Salah Abdeslam, the so-called tenth Paris attacker, he's been on the run ever since those Paris attacks. He participated in those attacks. He dropped off the stadium attackers around 9:00 on the evening of the attacks on November 13th. He then drove across Paris. He had a suicide bomb. But for some reason, he decided to abort his mission to be a suicide bomber that night in Paris.

BANFIELD: Tossed it in a trash can.

CRUICKSHANK: He - he threw it in a trash can. The subsequently recovered it, found the DNA of Salah Abdeslam on that device, confirming that he was tasked to become a suicide bomber. He was then picked up in the middle of the night by two friends from Brussels, who drove back. They actually got through some security checkpoints because the French hadn't established he was part of the attack yet.

BANFIELD: Right.

CRUICKSHANK: Got back to Brussels and then was helped by various people, melt away in the (INAUDIBLE). And really the trail has gone completely cold since then.

[12:30:02] BANFIELD: Well, has it? That's the other thing. Because we've seen his name brought back so many times in those last four months since those 130 people died in that attack in Paris that night, that coordinated series of attacks.

We've heard about other raids