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Belgium Launches Raids, Detains 6 People; ISIS Number Two Killed in Syria; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 25, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[10:00:13] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

We begin with breaking news out of Belgium. Right now dozens of police officers have converged on this Brussels neighborhood of Schaerbeek. It's an area bordering the attacks and a focus of investigators ever since. Witnesses report an explosion and the sound of gunfire.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is on the scene. He has more for us. Take it away -- Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes. We've been on the scene here for a couple of minutes now. We've actually been able to speak to someone who says that his son was on the square as all of this unfolded. And he told us that he saw someone or his son saw someone with a rifle come out of a subway station right in that square that you see behind me and that that person was then shot by police officers. He said that to his knowledge the person had been shot in the way that he was not killed at least immediately. He said that person was not killed.

We're also hearing from other eyewitnesses now that apparently they heard not one but two explosions as all of this was unfolding. At this point in time, it still is unclear how this is related or whether this is related in any way, shape, or form to the terror plots that took place at the Brussels airport and at the Brussels metro station. But judging by the size of this operation, it certainly is a very real possibility.

And if we just look down the street here a little bit, if we zoom in on the street a little bit, we can see that there is a massive police operation going on, I would say about 200 yards away from where we are. There's a lot of police trucks there. There's a lot of other police vehicles that are on the scene there and the police says -- have been widening its cordon around this area continuously as we've been here basically, pushing us journalists out so that they have room to operate.

The other thing that they've also been doing, Carol, is that they've also been advising the people who live here to leave the area as quickly as possible because of course they want the space and the freedom to maneuver in any way, shape, or form that they want to. They have bomb disposal squads on hand which shows that they believe that there could be some form of explosives involved as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Fred, can you describe the makeup of this neighborhood? Why is this neighborhood significant?

PLEITGEN: Well, it's significant, first of all, Carol, because the Schaerbeek neighborhood where also that apartment was, where the bombs were made for the attacks on the airport and also the attacks on the metro as well, where that main bomb-making lab was, where they found some 40 pounds or close to 40 pounds of TATP explosives. So this has been an area where there's been a lot of raids taking place. It's a very diverse neighborhood. There's a sort of very wealthy part, there's a more working class part.

That's where that apartment was where the bombs were made. But there have been raids here continuously over the past couple of days. A very big one that took place late last night where there were a lot of police on hand. Also a lot of police forensic workers. It's unclear whether or not anybody was detained in that raid. But there has been a flurry of police activity around this area.

Now it's unclear whether or not what we're seeing unfold here would have been the police reacting to someone possibly trying to attack this place or whether or not they might have found someone who was suspicious. We're still very much in the early stages. This is still very much an ongoing operation and one where the police continues to sort of move around and try to continuously move us out of the area as well to make sure that we don't -- or nobody gets in their way. And as you can see, there's more and more cars coming out of here as well as they make people evacuate this area -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Going back to the eyewitness that you interviewed just a short time ago. He said there was a man with a gun near a subway shop. Was the man with the gun coming out of the subway stop? Was he just near it? Do you know more?

PLEITGEN: Yes. He said that the man came up the stairs of the subway with a gun. And then I asked him whether or not it was a handgun or a rifle and he said that it was a very long gun, that it was indeed a rifle. So those are the things that we know about that specific person, and that that person almost immediately after people became aware of it was taken out by police officers. Now he said specifically that that person had not been hit in a way that he would have been killed immediately. Apparently he was still alive and then taken into custody.

However, if you look at the fact now that there's just appears to be a bomb disposal squad over there, the police seems to believe that something larger might be going on and they certainly don't want to take any risks especially after all the things that have happening here in this town over the past couple of days. They of course have been on many, many of similar sized operations.

But this one is certainly very big because I was here in the initial stages right after the attacks took place at the airport, and in the metro station, and the cordon that we're seeing right now, the amount of police on the street that we're seeing right now is very, very similar to that initial operation, so clearly this is one the police believe is very, very important, very significant, and one where they don't want to take any risks and one that they certainly want to make sure that they get absolutely right -- Carol.

[10:05:02] COSTELLO: All right. Frederick Pleitgen reporting live from this neighborhood outside of Brussels.

All of this is coming on the heels of overnight terror raids in Belgium, in France, in Germany. Let's talk about that with Clarissa Ward. She's also in Brussels.

Tell us more, Clarissa.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Good morning. Well, a lot of moving parts here in Brussels overnight. Six people arrested. At least three of them were arrested outside the prosecutor's office. The other three arrested in a series of raids in different neighborhoods.

We were in the same neighborhood where Fred Pleitgen is right now. We saw them carrying out a raid. They appeared to have a number of forensic experts inside the building. They were focusing their investigation on the top floor of the building. We could see them through the windows collecting evidence, not clear whether they were collecting -- looking for DNA evidence, looking for fingerprints, looking for traces of explosives, possibly all of the above. But we are seeing that Belgian authorities are keeping very tightlipped about the nature of their investigation and the leads that they're following.

Meanwhile, in Germany, we're learning today of two arrests, two men believed to be connected to Khalid Bakraoui. He of course was one of the Brussels bombers, and we're hearing from authorities in Germany that there were suspicious text messages on the phones of at least one of the men, one of them was well known in the -- in the German Salafi community.

We're still waiting to hear more information as to how exactly they relate to the Brussels plot or the France plot, and then, Carol, I hope our viewers can keep track of all this because it is unfolding all across Europe. Last night we had raids in France, in Paris, outside of Paris in a suburb called Argenteuil. Reportedly they arrested a man yesterday morning. He was believed to have been in the advanced stages of planning a serious attack.

That attack was foiled. Reportedly they found explosives, and they do say that the man they arrested in Paris was connected to Abdelhamid Abaaoud, who was of course the ringleader of the Paris attack. So what we're seeing now, Carol, are essentially overlapping networks of different jihadi cells in Paris, in Brussels, now in Germany, and police appear to be now at least tightening the noose, gaining momentum as they try to drill down on each node of these networks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Clarissa Ward reporting on extraordinary developments this morning. All right. I want to head live to the Pentagon now because there is

breaking news in the fight against ISIS. The U.S. fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

Barbara Starr has that. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Defense Secretary Ash Carter in about half an hour now expected to announce that U.S. military forces have likely killed the second in command in ISIS. Likely killed because they are still awaiting confirmation. But here's what's happening right now.

A man named Haji Imam -- he goes by a number of other names -- was by all accounts killed by U.S. troops in the last couple of days. Said to be the man in line to replace Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, if he is ever killed. But now U.S. forces believe they killed the second in command in the last couple of days. But where and how this happened is what might be the most interesting.

I am told by sources it happened in Syria and it was not -- not a U.S. military airstrike. This clearly opening the door to the possibility that all that is left is U.S. Special Forces were on the ground in Syria.

We are told that Carter will make the case that this is showing progress against ISIS in the wake of the Brussels and Paris attacks. But sources we're talking to are just cautioning on one point. U.S. Special Forces had this guy under observation. They had been tracking him. They had been watching where they thought he was going for some time before they moved in.

This is a very typical practice by U.S. Special Forces when they have a so-called high value target. They try and watch for some time and execute their attack on the target when they're pretty sure there are no civilians around. So it happened in the last couple of days. Defense Secretary Carter about to announce it. But we are also told he will be very sketchy on details.

The fact that it happened in Syria, that it appears U.S. Special Forces were on the ground conducting some sort of mission to accomplish this, this is very touchy, sensitive business for the Pentagon to speak about publicly, so we're going to hear the name. We're going to hear from the second in command in ISIS is likely now dead, but they may be very sparse with the details -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, because U.S. forces are only supposed to be in Iraq and Syria in an advisory role. They're not supposed to be involved directly in the killing of enemies.

[10:10:02] STARR: Well, let me -- that's a really good -- that's a really good point to bring up. And let me just clarify. There is a very secretive organization called the Expeditionary Targeting Force. The name is not secret, but what they do and where they go is not something the Pentagon wants to talk about. This is a group of highly trained special operations forces from the covert units of special ops that, in fact, have been orating in northern Iraq. That has been acknowledged. And have the authority indeed to go into Syria if they have a target they want to go after.

So this ETF, if you will, if, in fact, they are the ones that carried out this mission, it would be the first time we know of that they have carried out a lethal mission in Syria. Very dicey business to do this. Very, very dangerous work. But we know that they have been tracking a number of targets from that corridor that runs between Mosul and northern Iraq all the way over to Raqqa in Syria.

This is a place where they have been looking for these high value targets for months now. So if they were able to execute this mission somewhere in that region, for them, not a big surprise, but we may not ever hear many of the details.

COSTELLO: All right. Barbara Starr, we'll get back to you if you get anything new. Thanks so much.

We're going to keep an eye on what's happening outside of Brussels right now. That's Schaerbeek neighborhood. There's a big police operation going down. An eyewitness telling CNN one man was shot as he was coming out of a metro stop with a long arm gun of some kind.

We'll take you back to Brussels, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:49] COSTELLO: All right. We're continuing to follow breaking news. We're expecting a big announcement from Defense Secretary Ash Carter, and also General Dunford, the chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They're going to tell us that they believe that the number-two guy in ISIS in Syria has been killed.

For the significance of that I want to bring in Paul Cruickshank, he's our terrorism analyst. I want to also bring in Karen Greenberg, she's a terrorism analyst and director of the Center on National Security at Fordham University Law School, and also Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst.

I want to start with you, Paul. What can you tell us about this terrorist that was killed in Syria?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That was Rahman al-Qaduli. This is a very significant get indeed. He's believed to be the number two of ISIS. But not only that, he was the deputy of Abu Mussab al- Zarqawi, the founder of ISIS when it was used to be called Al Qaeda in Iraq, when it used to be fighting U.S. troops in Iraq. He was a deputy to Zarqawi. He was the envoy then between Al Qaeda in Iraq and Al Qaeda in Pakistan. He was bin Laden's favorite candidate to take over. Instead they gave the top job to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

This is somebody with significant credentials in global jihad. He's from northern Iraq. From the town of Tal-afar. He's an ethnic Turkmen. He's operated in both Syria and Iraq for the group. A very key figure, somebody that could have been poised perhaps one day to take over for Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi but because he's not set to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, some analysts believe that could create some problems for him if he ever want to take over. Well, all of that is moot now because he's dead. This is a very

significant breakthrough in the war on ISIS.

COSTELLO: So, Karen, does this weaken ISIS in any way significantly?

KAREN GREENBERG, TERRORISM ANALYST: What it does is to intensify what's been going on for the last couple of months which is that ISIS the Levant, in Iraq and Syria is being squeezed more and more, pushed out of its so-called caliphate, and you're seeing the repercussions of that in Europe, in Belgium, in France. And so what it does is intensify the entire conflict. It brings into the forefront exactly what the relationship between our advances and our successes in the Levant are, and what's that going to mean for Europe where people will be told stay home, fight in Europe, and maybe the foreign fighter issue may turn back onto the homelands in Europe.

So it's essential to understanding this if you're going to understand the counterterrorism effort inside Europe right now.

COSTELLO: And we have a picture of this guy. There he is right there, the number two commander of ISIS. Supposedly he was killed in Syria. American Special Forces had some role in his killing, Juliette. What do you make of that?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's not surprising. I mean, first of all, we have Special Forces in the area, and a lot of times if we find out someone is known to be somewhere, we will not necessarily want to share that information with other countries, and so I'm not so surprised by this. It tells me also that the decision not to use a drone suggests that he might have been in an area where there might have been too many civilian casualties so we'll find out more about the raid.

I just want to quickly pick up also on something Paul said. ISIS survives both by action and atmospherics. And for a long time everyone believed that they were invincible. So not only is this a good thing just by undermining the chain of command in ISIS. But the West has to begin a narrative, a counter-narrative, that this group is destructible, that they can be killed and captured. And so this is -- for symbolic and atmospheric reasons, this helps the West. It also can help in terms of minimizing recruitment, just getting that idea that ISIS is invulnerable and everywhere, it needs to be addressed by the West, and so a kill like this does that.

COSTELLO: I thought it interesting, Paul, that he was skilled in Syria, not in Iraq. There was supposed to be a ceasefire in place in Syria. Is there any significance to that?

[10:20:01] CRUICKSHANK: Well, ISIS of course has a very significant presence in Syria.

COSTELLO: In Raqqa, right.

CRUICKSHANK: He was known to operate both in Iraq and Syria. He's from Iraq. Back last decade he was the commander of Al Qaeda in Iraq in Mosul. So spent a lot of time there. But he was killed in Syria. But this is very significant because it suggests that U.S. is getting better and better intelligence. This is a huge, high-value prize in the war on ISIS.

Is the net now going to close in on Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Because if they can get this guy, they may well be able to get Abu Bark al- Baghdadi. His days may be numbered. Watch out for that in the next weeks.

COSTELLO: And things are also escalating in Mosul, in Iraq, right? Iraqi forces are supposedly moving to overtake that city now with the help of U.S. Special Forces and U.S. advisers. And that's moving along but slowly. But from your perspective, is it moving along fast enough?

CRUICKSHANK: It's moving very, very slowly indeed. They're taking a few villages in the surrounding areas. But there is no operation, significant operation yet to take the actual city of Mosul. I think many believe it's very unlikely that they will get hold of that city again this year. Maybe an operation won't even be able to start this year. ISIS are entrenched there. The battle for Mosul will be a modern-day Stalingrad.

COSTELLO: Wow. What do you mean by that? Tell people what you mean by that.

CRUICKSHANK: ISIS has booby trapped the place. They've dug trenches, they have a large number of fighters there. The battle for Ramadi just a few months ago was very, very fierce indeed. Just a few hundred at the very most ISIS fighters there. Well, they have thousands likely in Mosul. They've had a lot of time to prepare for this. It will be one of the sort of most difficult ever operations mounted by the Iraqis.

Remember back in 2004 the U.S. Marines launched those assaults in Fallujah. That was some of toughest fighting the U.S. has waged since Vietnam but this time around there are no U.S. forces that are going to be in a combat role we understand in the liberation of Mosul. How on earth are the Iraqis going to be able to take it given how difficult it was for the U.S. just to take Fallujah, a much easier city to take?

COSTELLO: Ash Carter says it could happen within a year.

Let's talk about Raqqa before you have to go, Raqqa, Syria. Because that's another city that's in the crosshairs, right? So how likely is it that that city will fall any time soon?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, the question is fall to who? Because the Kurds -- you know, not going to be able to go into Raqqa. I mean, this is an Arab city and there aren't that many Arab Sunni forces that are fighting on the anti-ISIS coalition side inside Syria, so although ISIS has weakened around Raqqa, although they're vulnerable, the big question is, who's going to go in there on the ground? The Kurds, their focus is entrenching their holdings to the north of Raqqa. Perhaps trying to create a sort of Kurd entity. They have little interest in going into Raqqa and losing a lot of

territory. This is not an area where Kurdish people generally live. So the big question is who on earth is going to take Raqqa, even though it is vulnerable.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. Paul Cruickshank, Karen Greenberg, Juliette Kayyem, thanks to all of you.

We're going to take you back to Brussels after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:28:00] COSTELLO: All right. I want to bring you back to Belgium to that neighborhood outside of Brussels called Schaerbeek. There's a big police operation that's been underway for the past 40 minutes. Explosions were heard, gunfire. An eyewitness told us at least one man was shot coming out of a subway station.

Nick Paton Walsh is there. Nick, we understand that the operation is now over?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is what one broadcast TBS is citing the mayor as saying that the operation is over now. But at the same time, we are hearing that -- we're hearing that one man has been injured and potentially arrested as well.

Now let me describe, Carol, the scene behind me as it has been in the past minute or so. We've seen a number of police people wearing armored vests, picking through the remnants of a bag, some clothes, some possessions on it. Now that is a bag that was recently picked through by the bomb squad as far as we can tell.

Now before that there were two trams parked along this track here, the number 25 tram, in fact. They had been emptied, evacuated, we understand, and have since been driven away from here. But at this point down the road, there is still a substantial police presence, as I say, going through that item on the ground here with authorities, according to state broadcast, saying that one individual has been arrested.

COSTELLO: Do you know if they -- do you know if they -- Nick, can you still hear me? There you go. I thought you froze there for a second. Nick, I just wonder, do we know --

PATON: But I'm not hearing Carol.

COSTELLO: You're not hearing me, Nick? Nick Paton Walsh not hearing me. All right. We're going to try to get back to that neighborhood as soon as we can. But you heard Nick Paton Walsh say that the operation is now over. One man we believe has been taken into custody. That was the man that the eyewitness told us who was walking out of that subway station armed with some kind of weapon. He told us he saw his -- his son saw, actually, police shoot that man in the legs. That man has been taken into custody. You heard Nick Paton Walsh say that some kind of bag was examined and

things were being taken out of it by police. We don't know what went on inside the neighborhood as far as did police any apartments of homes, we don't know that because police are keeping reporters away but according to --