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Police Arrest Six People in Connection with Brussels Attacks; Inside a Belgian "Hotbed of Radicalism"; Soldiers Patrol City Amid High Tension; Cruz and Trump Go to War Over Their Wives; Officials Missed Warnings before Brussels Attacks; New Anti-Terror Raids in Brussels, Outside Paris; Iraqi Army Launches Ops Near Mosul. Aired 1- 2a ET
Aired March 25, 2016 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:17] MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is CNN's special coverage from Brussels live for you on the terror attacks that struck the city early this week.
Police here have been conducting anti-terror raids all this morning. One took place right in front of our cameras in the Schaerbeek neighborhood. Investigators sealed off streets with teams in hazmat gear and spent hours inside this home.
They have also arrested at least six people in connection to the bombings. Officials will decide in the coming hours if any of them will be released. Right now authorities think there were five men now involved in Tuesday's blast including a second bomber at the metro station.
All of this as intelligence points to ISIS getting ready for more attacks soon. Senior international correspondent Atika Shubert joins me with more.
Lots of activity overnight European time, Atika. Does that suggest that there are more plots in the planning?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly suggests that they're trying to root out this extensive network and yes, absolutely, the fear is that there might be multiple plots that are in the works.
Let's get to the arrest, first of all here in Brussels. Actually it was across the country, there were six arrests in total. Quite a few of them actually happened right in front of the Federal Prosecutor's Office, which is very unusual. We had another two arrests elsewhere in the city, in Jette, another part just outside of Brussels. So a number of those arrests, we don't know who they were or why they were arrested. The prosecutor hasn't given any details yet. But we will find out today whether or not they will remain in police custody.
In the meantime, as you point out, there was the raid in Schaerbeek, and what they have there was hazmat teams, hazardous material teams, actually going in and clearing out something in one of the buildings. And we don't know exactly what it was. But of course this is the same neighborhood where they found in one of the attackers -- one of the apartments there rented by the attackers. A nail bomb and chemical explosives. So it could be something similar to that but we're still waiting for details from the prosecutor on that, Max.
FOSTER: And the French authorities also arresting someone in the late stages of a plot, we understand.
SHUBERT: That is right, in Argenteuil. They called it the advance stages of a plot. But what's interesting is they said it was not related to Paris or Brussels. And that is very concerning because what it shows is that there could be individual cells working separately from each other. So it doesn't mean that ISIS is giving direct orders to one of these cells, and that is the hardest kind of terrorist attack to prevent and to stop because they don't leave any communication traces, they could simply be inspired by ISIS or they could have received orders long ago and they're just working off the experience that they received while they were fighting with ISIS or other groups in Syria or Iraq, so very disturbing developments there, Max.
FOSTER: A lot of concern as well about increasing failures uncovered as a result of -- after Paris and how many people feel should be better preparation around the times of the Brussels attack. What are we learning about the failures in this?
SHUBERT: Absolutely, we already had two Belgian ministers offered to resign admitting that there were intelligence and security failures. I mean, there were a number of red flags here. Obviously, the first, Salah Abdeslam, remember, who was one of the fugitives from the Paris attacks, you know, was on the run for weeks, months really. And it turns out he was hiding in plain sight. And somehow Belgian authorities weren't able to find him despite the fact that they arrested a number of people in his network.
And then of course we now that the Bakraoui brothers were wanted by police and one of them in fact had traveled to Turkey, was deported by Turkey for attempting to cross into Syria back to -- he was deported to the Netherlands. And Turkey claims that they notified Belgian authorities. So a lot of questions being asked now why weren't Belgian authorities able to keep track of people who clearly should have been on a watch list.
So a lot of this gets down to capacity, however. I mean, remember that Belgium has the most fighters going to join ISIS in Syria and Iraq per capita than any other country in Europe, hundreds of young men and some women have gone to join the fight there. And so now what we're seeing some -- many of them, about half coming back. And that is a huge logistical challenge for intelligence services to keep track of these hundreds of young men and women that have come back and could possibly be in the stages of plotting more attacks.
FOSTER: OK, thank you, Atika.
[01:05:01] Well, many in the world are looking at the Brussels neighborhood of Molenbeek as part of what's called Belgium's terror time bomb. It's home to a large Muslim population of North African immigrants and suffers from a soaring youth unemployment rate, making it ripe for ISIS recruitment.
Clarissa Ward takes us there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is the neighborhood that everybody in the world is now talking about. Molenbeek, home to nearly 100,000 people, it has been described as one of the most dangerous hotbeds of radicalization. On the streets here, though, it actually feel like a normal working-class neighborhood with a large immigrant population. But the problems here are beneath the surface, largely.
The lack of integration here is striking. On the streets you will hear Arabic much more than you will French. And when you talk to people you will often hear say they don't feel fully Belgian. They feel like second-class citizens.
(Voice-over): Molenbeek Imam Asad Majeed says that younger second and third generation immigrants feel particularly marginalized.
IMAM ASAD MAJEED, MOLENBEEK RESIDENT: There is a big community in Muslim who are feeling now that they are not Belgian citizen. The reason of that is, first of all, the unemployment of all in Belgium because they don't feel that they are accepted in this society. So this is why they feel that they are not Belgian.
WARD (on camera): Most people don't want to appear on camera because they're very concerned that there's a negative image being portrayed of the residents here in the media. Privately, though, many of them will concede that there is a big problem with radicalization in this community. But there just isn't any trust or communication between the local community and between the police. And that is a huge problem for Belgian authorities.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Clarissa there in Molenbeek.
Well, joining me right now for more analysis is Tara Palmeri. She's a reporter for Politico in Europe.
And what you've discovered is there is a massive missed opportunity by the security services here.
TARA PALMERI, REPORTER, POLITICO EUROPE: Yes, Salah Abdeslam was captured on Friday. Everyone was celebrating, thinking that we had had caught the big fish, the last major link to the Paris cell after the Paris attacks. But police say they missed the opportunity by only interrogating him for an hour even though they --
FOSTER: Over what period of time?
PALMERI: Over four days up until the attacks. And his attorney confirmed that to us at Politico. And -- so they weren't able -- our sources say they weren't able to get anything out of him about a future attack.
FOSTER: Yes. What's so frustrating about this is that he's now not talking to the authorities.
PALMERI: Right.
FOSTER: Since we had the Brussels attacks. So they could have found out something that been a tip-off perhaps?
PALMERI: Exactly. And actually the Belgian authority, our sources there are a little -- are very annoyed with the French because they are blaming them for leaking out the information that he was planning to kill himself, blow himself up at the Paris stadium. And they believe that because that information got out during their interviews that it prompted the other members within the cell to act more quickly because they feared that Salah was talking and that they might -- that he might end up giving up their plot. So it was sort of -- in a way they think that it added more momentum to the attacks.
FOSTER: What's the problem here? Is this a game coming back to that whole issue of security services and different countries not working properly together.
PALMERI: Exactly, and that's the problem in Europe. We have open borders, people are moving around, but there isn't enough coordination between the national security forces and intelligence just isn't shared well.
Our sources after the Paris attack told that there was a reluctance to share information with Belgium because of the fact that information tends to trickle all the way down to a local level. They have 19 different communes with 19 different mayors and police forces. There isn't a lot of organization. They're frankly ill-equipped to deal with this kind of national threat. Before this they were spending $50 million Euros per year on counterterrorism.
Now they've added $400 million but a lot of the people feel like it's a little too late and they really need the help in terms of dealing with this issue so there needs to be less fear about sharing information and more coordination within the Belgians in terms of dealing with the situation.
FOSTER: Thank you very much, Tara, for your insight on that.
So, although the Belgian authorities have lowered the terror threat level by a notch, at least, anxieties still high across Brussels and so is security.
Phil Black went to the central metro station to see how people are feeling about the beefed up patrols.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are so many soldiers on the streets of central Brussels. This now looks like an occupied city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a little bit kind of war, a feeling of war.
BLACK: An intimidating presence, but also comforting to people who are now sharply aware of the vulnerability that comes with living in an open European city.
[01:10:08] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, safe.
BLACK (on camera): It makes you safe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It makes me safe here. Yes, yes. And a lot safer.
BLACK (voice-over): It can now take a long time to get inside Brussels central station. The crowd shuffles slowly. Everyone is watched closely as they enter. Soldiers patrol in small packs. Most people are here to catch commuter trains out of Brussels, but the inner city metro is now partially open operating a very limited service. The passengers who endure even greater scrutiny. Everyone is personally searched before getting to these platforms.
(On camera): There are so many soldiers and police officers at the stations, the security is pretty extraordinary and so is the atmosphere underground.
(Voice-over): A mix of necessity and determination means these people are still riding trains across and under Brussels.
(On camera): Do you think people are behaving differently?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit.
BLACK: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are anxious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all know that we're not safe anywhere. It can happen anywhere at any moment.
BLACK (voice-over): Catching a train is now an act of courage and defiance because of what happened here. Maelbeek metro station was where the most people died in Tuesday's attacks. With the surrounding streets now open, people are coming here to grieve.
Liza de Tuilda (PH) came to sing.
LIZA DE TUILDA, SINGS AT BRUSSELS METRO STATION: Just to show that, yes, that we never will stop singing and never will stop -- yes, doing what we do.
BLACK (on camera): There is great sorrow, but some here are making a real effort to promote other emotions, too.
(Voice-over): You see it along the road near Maelbeek station, where countless hearts are being scratched into the ground with messages of love and peace. Some in the city are determined to respond to terror with hope.
Phil Black, CNN, Brussels.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, next on CNN, we'll take you live to Los Angeles with John Vause with some of the other stories we're covering for you this hour.
Syrian government troops say they are close to retaking an ancient city held by ISIS. We'll see why the move is so important.
Plus, in the race for the White House, an angry and emotional Ted Cruz is ripping into Donald Trump for his attacks on Cruz's wife. Stay with us.
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[01:16:22] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody, I'm John Vause in Los Angeles. We'll head back to Max Foster in Brussels in just a moment. But now we'd like to take a look at the race for the White House which may have hit a new low with a very nasty fight on the Republican side between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Both candidates spent the day defending the virtue of their wives after both became the focus of a back-and-forth Twitter war.
CNN's Sunlen Serfaty has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are escalating their nasty spat involving their spouses.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not easy to tick me off. I don't get angry often, but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. Donald you're a sniveling coward. Leave Heidi the hell alone.
SERFATY: That, after Trump re-tweeted this split screen image of Cruz's wife Heidi and his wife Melania, with the caption ,"The images are worth a thousand words."
CRUZ: Real men don't try to bully women. That's not an action of strength. That's an action of weakness. It's an action of fear. It's an action of a small and petty man who is intimidated by strong women.
SERFATY: FOX News anchor Megyn Kelly, a regular Trump target, also joining the fray with a one-word tweet to Donald Trump. "Seriously?"
Cruz blasting Trump for bringing his wife into the middle of their campaign showdown. CRUZ: Let me be absolutely clear. Our spouses and our children are
off bounds. It is not acceptable for a big, loud, New York bully to attack my wife.
SERFATY: The attacks were first sparked by a Facebook ad from an anti-Trump Super PAC, not the Cruz campaign that, used an old modeling photo of Melania Trump's wife posing nude. But Trump still insists his rival was somehow involved.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought it was disgraceful. And Ted Cruz knew about it.
SERFATY: The sharp, personal attacks eclipsing the divisions over national security, now emerging as a flash point between the 2016 candidates on both sides, in the wake of the Brussels terror attacks.
Hillary Clinton angling for a symbolic contrast, sitting down with Muslim leaders in California. The Democratic frontrunner blasting her GOP rivals for pursuing policies that she says will only sow division.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Cannot allow our nation to be pitting groups of people against one another. We cannot give into panic and fear. It's not in keeping with our values.
SERFATY: This comes as a brand new CNN-ORC poll shows if Trump and Clinton face off in the general election, 56 percent of voters believe that Clinton will win. Compared with 42 percent of people who think that Trump will. And while Clinton also an edge when it comes to who would be a better commander-in-chief and who is more in touch with the middle class, she and Trump are tied on the question of who is a stronger leader.
(On camera): And back on that Donald Trump-Ted Cruz feud, the Trump campaign is calling for the Cruz campaign to direct that Super PAC, with that Facebook ad about Melania Trump, they are directing them to pull the ad. Well, the Cruz campaign responding saying that they have nothing to do with it and they have already denounced it.
Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Janesville, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Let's bring in Christina Bellantoni, she is an assistant managing editor for politics at the "Los Angeles Times."
Christine, good to have you with us. This is such schoolyard stuff, what's next, spitballs and wedgies, I guess, during lunch hour? This is incredible to think that this is where the Republican race has not got to. I mean, but as you say, this is tailor-made to Donald Trump.
[01:20:07] CHRISTINA BELLANTONI, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": It really is. The thing is, there is more next. We know that there are divorce records to go through. We know that there are millions of photos out there. We know that this is a campaign that's already been dragged down into the gutter. And people have gone to name-calling in some of the worst ways and there is a long way to go until November 8th.
VAUSE: Yes.
BELLANTONI: So I would expect this to go up a lot and particularly as Ted Cruz tries to win over those evangelical voters who will continue to make a difference in the contest ahead. I mean, he still is in this delegate fight with Donald Trump, he wants to take it to a convention, this is the area where he can continue to try to hammer on Trump on values, on his own family.
VAUSE: Why did he choose to go in all day long? I think four or five separate appearances, he brought it up repeatedly. Why not just come out, say one statement, this is outrageous? He made that really good statement when he said, you know, Melania is lovely, and Heidi is the love of my life. Which I thought was very classy. Why not just leave it at that?
BELLANTONI: And partially because reporters are asking him about, it, to be fair. But at the same time he knows he can get on television and every day that they're talking about Donald Trump and Ted Cruz is a good day for Ted Cruz, because for the most part the media is only talking about Donald Trump. So that is one part of it. But in addition to that, you know, this is something he can continue to fan the flames of a controversy and point out here he is talking about how much he loves his wife, and, you know, I'm going to defend my wife, and don't ever talk about my wife. That's something that actually can help him in the polls going forward as people look at him as a more sympathetic character.
VAUSE: Yes. It's possibly one of the more sort of human side of Ted Cruz for a lot of people who don't him as particularly warm, I guess, in that respect.
BELLANTONI: And you've seen his family already easy targets, you know, because of the B-roll that got into his children, that sort of a thing.
VAUSE: OK. Donald Trump put out a tweet during the day and he said this, "I didn't start the fight with Lyin Ted over the GQ cover pic of Melania. He knew the PAC was putting it out, hence, Lyin Ted." This is what some people say is the big criticism of Donald Trump. He can't let anything go. He's always has to counterpunch and counterpunch hard. Does he get to a point where he has to start being more presidential or is this going to be -- I mean, I think, you believe that this is just how it's going to go for the rest of the couple of months.
BELLANTONI: He has shown that he is a tough one candidate really. Anything he does he still got his very strong base of support. And it's not enough at this point to win a general election based on what we're seeing in the polls but at the same time there are people that fiercely defend him. So he can't let it slide, but he's also in one sense right. I don't think that Ted Cruz knew about this ad. What we do know is that the super PAC that is responsible for this ad has some people that were affiliated with Carly Fiorina, and Carly Fiorina is a Ted Cruz supporter now, right? So you can sort of trace the links. VAUSE: Yes.
BELLANTONI: That all these are just trying to mount an anti-Trump campaign. It doesn't matter who it benefits, they just want to take Trump down. And the rules with campaign finance now are so squishy you really don't know where the money is coming from or where it is going next. So Trump in some ways is right in that sense. He hasn't done that. He doesn't have a super PAC.
VAUSE: OK. One of the attacks coming from Ted Cruz on Donald Trump is that he has a problem with strong women, thus the attack on Megyn Kelly, the Carly Fiorina thing. And now this. And Donald Trump will be facing -- assuming he is the nominee for the Republican side and assuming Hillary Clinton is the nominee on the Democrats, which I think pretty safe assumptions at this point anyway -- he'll be facing a very, very strong woman on the Democratic side. So how much of a problem will this be for him? His numbers, his approval rating among women is already pretty low.
BELLANTONI: It's completely low. And when you think that you're running against history, somebody that's running to become the first female president there's going to be moderate Republican women that are completely turned off by what Donald Trump is doing. But at the same time there are people in America who say America is not ready for a female president. So this gender politics, you'll continue to see it.
And don't forget, Hillary Clinton played into this a little bit in 2008 when things got real tough, there were points where her campaign said this, all of the men in the race were piling on and attacking her. She had moments where she showed a more sensitive side. Now she is out there talking about being a grandmother all of the time.
VAUSE: Yes.
BELLANTONI: And running to make history so I expect that that will be a continued theme, particularly because it's something Donald Trump has a weakness on. And female voters are very important to the general election.
VAUSE: It will be interesting to see if it does shape up to be Trump- Clinton, you know, general election whether he keeps punching this hard in the months to come.
BELLANTONI: Right.
VAUSE: Christina, always good to speak with you. Thank you for coming in.
BELLANTONI: Thank you.
VAUSE: OK, we have some sad news now.
Now Gary Shandling, who has died, he's remembered as one of his generation's most influential comedians. Police confirmed his death on Thursday in Los Angeles, but they have not revealed the cause. Shandling is best known for his groundbreaking TV comedy "The Larry Sanders Show" and his "Gary Shandling Show" which parodied talk shows and situation comedies.
In a 2007 appearance with talk show host David Letterman, he took on the topic of mortality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY SHANDLING, ACTOR-COMEDIAN: You are fantastic, your way -- your life is fantastic. You've got the -- I don't have kids yet, I haven't had a bypass yet.
(LAUGHTER)
[01:25:02] SHANDLING: You're way ahead of me. And I salute you because most of my friends have it the other way around. They have the kids then the bypass. I've got to give it to you on that.
DAVID LETTERMAN, FORMER TV HOST: Well, thank you very much. I'm not sure that's an advantage but you're right.
SHANDLING: I'll tell you when the age -- I don't think -- see, you had to face mortality there in that situation.
LETTERMAN: That's right. Sure, it's a big deal.
SHANDLING: It's a big deal. And a lot of people are in denial of it. And I don't think of it often, when the Pope died last year, I thought, boy, if he can't get out of it. That means it's going to happen.
LETTERMAN: Right. Right.
SHANDLING: You know, because I thought for a second --
LETTERMAN: It will be a thing.
SHANDLING: God is going to say hey, you had two good shows. You don't have to -- you can -- you don't have to die. But when the Pope died I went, we're screwed.
LETTERMAN: Yes.
SHANDLING: So I know it's coming. On my gravestone it's going to say, "I knew this was going to happen."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Gary Shandling was 66 years old.
Back in a moment.
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FOSTER: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You're watching CNN's continuing coverage of the Brussels terror attacks live from the Belgian capital. I'm Max Foster.
Now police have detained at least six people in raids throughout the city and the manhunt continues for an airport bomber still on the run. Plus, officials say there might have been an unidentified suspect in the metro attack. Investigators don't know if he is dead or alive.
[01:30:00]
Intelligence experts say Belgium missed clear warning signs before the attacks. Even the country's interior minister admits it's a legitimate concern.
CNN international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh tried to get answers from him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A devastating attack, but also one that had a devastating number of warnings. Of the five said to be attackers, we know the identity of three, And for each of those, we know Belgian authorities were warned.
Najim Laachraoui, on the left here, skilled in bombmaking and sought by Interpol via red notice, a kind of global arrest warrant, since last year.
Khalid El Bakraoui, one of the two brothers behind the attacks, subject also of a red notice for three months before the attacks, this one explicitly for terrorism and issued in December.
And his brother, in perhaps the most staggering twist, traveled to Turkey last June.
He was deported by Turkish authorities for trying to join ISIS, to Holland. Dutch authorities saying they got an e-mail from Turkey 26 minutes before his flight took off, but never mentioned Turkey's concerns.
A mess so extraordinary, the Belgian interior minister reviewed the papers overnight and then offered his resignation.
JAN JAMBON, INTERIOR MINISTER, Belgium (through translator): People ask how is it possible that someone was released early and we missed a chance, when he was in Turkey, to detain him?
I understand that question. I cannot speak for a colleague. But for myself, I offered my resignation to the Prime Minister.
WALSH (voice-over): It wasn't accepted, but he also wasn't answering questions.
WALSH: So there were a number of occasions in which there were very clear warnings about the links between all these attackers and the potential for terrorism.
Why were those --
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Remarkable decision by the Interior Minister here, to not answer any questions at all, despite the growing evidence of substantial information being passed to the Belgian government about the links between all these attackers and terrorism.
WALSH (voice-over): The number of suspects still growing, as are the ramifications at the heart of power -- Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Brussels.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Roberta Bonazzi joins me now. She is executive director of the European Foundation for Democracy, a policy center for countering radicalization.
There has been a massive failure, hasn't there?
I guess that's by definition really, that there has been an attack and there were some signs before. But you know, you can't follow every single detail in these groups.
ROBERTA BONAZZI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EUROPEAN FOUNDATION FOR DEMOCRACY: Absolutely, absolutely, clearly when you have these attacks of this scale it is clear there has been a failure of intelligence, of not just on a national level in Belgium but ability to coordinate among intelligence agencies across Europe.
FOSTER: What is depressing, though, is we heard about all of this after the Paris attacks.
BONAZZI: Well, I guess that is what is making everybody angry. There are some objective issues when it comes to Belgium, because of the way Belgium is structured, the state, the regional level, the federal level.
(CROSSTALK)
BONAZZI: It is an incredibly complex layer of agencies and structures, much more complex than any other countries in Europe.
And clearly, this is a dysfunctional system. And probably there has been a lot of mistrust in accepting and processing intelligence that was coming from other countries, non-Europe countries, for instance the case of Turkey, because the focus is -- we can comment but as the reality --
FOSTER: Turkey gave warning signs about one of the suicide bombers, right?
Contacted the European countries, said we're releasing this guy?
BONAZZI: Yes, Turkey gave more than warning signs, gave very clear intelligence and information about some of the -- two of the individuals who committed the terrorist acts.
FOSTER: Well, did they tell the wrong people?
Or did Belgium not take Turkey seriously?
What was the problem there?
BONAZZI: I don't know, there was probably a combination of factors, not taking Turkey seriously and maybe the wrong people. It is very easy to talk to the wrong people in Belgium, except that Turkey informed the Netherlands as well and the Dutch authorities released one of the individuals.
FOSTER: So what do we learn from all of these failures?
BONAZZI: I hope we are going to learn something. Because I -- frankly, I had already hoped that today, 15 years after 9/11, after the Madrid bombing, the London bombing and then Paris twice in 2015, we had learned a lot. But clearly, we haven't. We are paying --
[01:35:00]
BONAZZI: -- the price of very bad policies in terms of -- across Europe, not just in Belgium -- in terms of prevention of radicalization.
For too long, European governments have left the field free and open to Islamist organizations, carrying out tasks that would usually pertain to the state.
And when I say Islamist organizations, I don't mean Islamic as the religion but Islamist as based on ideology. The ideology and those groups were founded by countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who have been able to operate freely across Europe and America.
FOSTER: Well, is there a case of resources?
We keep hearing that the authorities haven't got enough resources but it sounds to me that they -- those resources they have haven't been used efficiently, either.
BONAZZI: I think it is a combination of both. It's partly resources. When we funding coming from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, well, there is a lot of money coming into Europe. But it is partly a result of bad choices, of selecting and engaging with the wrong interlocutors, with groups.
When I talk about the ideology, this is an ideology; it doesn't really support integration. It's actually divisive and foster and promotes division of them and us.
FOSTER: OK, well, thank you very much indeed. And they're going to be thinking about this a lot in the months to come. And hopefully things will change.
BONAZZI: Thank you.
FOSTER: Still to come this hour, fighting ISIS on another front: Syrian troops say they are close to retaking the ancient city of Palmyra from the militants. The latest on the offensive coming up.
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VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody, I'm John Vause in Los Angeles, it is coming up to 10:40 on a Thursday night. We will return to Brussels in just a moment.
ISIS appears to be on the defensive on two major fronts --
[01:40:00]
VAUSE: -- the Iraqi army has forced the terror group out of several villages south of Mosul, this appears to be the start of a much bigger operation to retake Iraq's second biggest city which has been under ISIS control for almost two years.
And in Syria, regime forces may soon regain control of the ancient city of Palmyra. As Jonathan Mann reports, it has been months since ISIS fighters overran the city and began to destroy its ancient buildings and cultural treasures.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After weeks of fighting in the desert, Syrian regime forces appear poised to retake the historic city of Palmyra from ISIS.
Video broadcast by Syrian state media showed government troops entering the outskirts of the city Thursday, backed by Russian airpower. ISIS militants seized control of Palmyra, a UNESCO World Heritage site, last May.
They publicly executed the city's 82-year-old retired head of antiquities after he refused to reveal where valuable artifacts were being hidden. And they leveled many of the site's ancient monuments, cultural treasures, some 2,000 years old, reduced to rubble.
CNN affiliate Expression shot this video inside Palmyra, showing the Roman era Arch of Triumph that used to frame the entrance to the city, now it's destroyed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When you think of Palmyra, the first thing you picture is the Arch of Triumph. I feel very sad. It makes me want to cry. There are no words.
MANN (voice-over): Palmyra is located 130 miles or about 200 kilometers northeast of Damascus and is considered key to controlling a huge swath of desert extending to the border with Iraq. Recapturing the city now would be both a strategic and symbolic victory for Syrian forces -- Jonathan Mann, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, for more on these latest developments in both Iraq and Syria, let's bring in our military analyst, Lt. Col. Rick Francona.
Colonel, thank you for being with us. Let's start with Palmyra, the operation there which appears to be on the verge of success for the Syrian regime.
Should those government forces move in, take over Palmyra?
How does that actually change the balance of this war?
How does it tip the equation, if you like, in favor of Assad?
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, this is a battle the Syrian army, the Syrian regime has to win. This is a very symbolic city for them.
But more importantly, it really puts a -- focuses the battle against ISIS. For some time now, we have seen the Russians supporting the Syrians and the Syrians retaking territory that they lost to the anti- regime rebels. But they really haven't taken much ground from ISIS.
This is the real first test between the Syrian army and ISIS. And it looks like it's going the Syrian army's way.
Now of course a lot of that's due to this massive amount of Russian airpower that's being delivered to Palmyra. So I think we're on the verge of watching Palmyra fall.
The problem is, as the Syrians push the ISIS fighters back, they're going to be going into that very sensitive antiquities area. And, you know, hopefully some of that will survive. But we've seen that the ISIS have no respect for these things at all.
This is going to put a lot of pressure on ISIS because it's going to push them back up against the Euphrates river.
VAUSE: With that in mind, this is an ancient city; it's a UNESCO protected -- you know, it's 2,000 years old and then some.
What are the chances that ISIS will simply destroy what's left, they'll rig it with explosives and blow it up before they leave?
FRANCONA: You know, that is a big fear. We've seen them do this other places and when they withdraw, if they do that, of course, it does nothing for them, but it really hurts their cause, I think, in the rest of the world. It galvanizes public opinion against them, if that's possible that it can be galvanized even more.
But the loss of Palmyra will be a tactical and strategic problem for ISIS because if you look at -- if you believe that there's a grand plan out there -- and there possibly is -- we're trying to cut ISIS up into different isolated pockets. If we can push them out of Palmyra, if the Kurds can cut off the access to the Turkish border, if the American coalition with the Kurds can cut off Mosul from their supply line, now we've got three different -- two different pockets of ISIS.
And once they're surrounded, no logistics, it's going to be very, very difficult for them to continue the fight.
VAUSE: And let's talk about Mosul right now. This appears to be the start of what will yet be a much bigger operation. U.S. and Kurdish war planners believe they'll need at least three divisions to retake Mosul. That's about 50,000 soldiers. I think right now there's only 4,000 soldiers.
What's the timeline before they can get up to that kind of strength?
FRANCONA: John, I don't think we're going to see anything real happen in Mosul until at least September because they've got to clear out an entire area along that Tigris Valley before they can even get up to Mosul.
They've got to take these cities; they've got to hold them. Then they've got to rebuild the supply lines and push everything up that valley, get everything in place before they even launch it.
Now they've started and we'll give them credit for that. Then they're doing this with a lot of help --
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FRANCONA: -- from the U.S. Army, U.S. Marines and, of course, U.S. airpower being applied a lot. And the Kurds are helping a lot. They're going to cut off their supply lines. Once again, if we can isolate them in Mosul, that makes it much easier for the Iraqis when they get there. But, John, this is a long way off and it's still not sure that the Iraqis have the capability to do this.
VAUSE: And when we look at the map, when we look at these operations which are ongoing, the one in Palmyra, the one in Mosul, you talked about the Kurds on the Turkish border as well, would you say all of these operations, are they being coordinated at some kind of senior level amongst the government and these groups?
FRANCONA: One would hope so. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that Secretary Kerry and his counterparts in Moscow have had a series of meetings. And unfortunately, there are some downsides for the U.S. if we agree to do this with the Russians.
We've almost guaranteed the future of Bashar al-Assad as the president of Syria because to get all of this cooperation, we're probably going to have to make a deal with the Russians that Bashar continues in power.
Now that hurts us, because we have got anti-regime rebels on the ground that we are supporting. So we're going to have to walk a fine line if we're going to get the cooperation of the Russians, Syrians and the Iraqis, the Iranians, everybody to go after ISIS because, right now, ISIS is the number one threat. The president even said that. That is his number one priority.
VAUSE: Yes, the military side of it is complicated. That is nothing compared to the political side of all of this.
Colonel, good to speak with you. Thank you, sir.
FRANCONA: OK, John.
VAUSE: Two British men face prison time after a jury convicted them of plotting an ISIS-inspired attack on London's streets. Authorities say they planned a drive-by shooting targeting police, soldiers and civilians. Kellie Morgan has details.
KELLIE MORGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest Britons to be convicted over a plot to unleash terror in London.
Twenty-two-year-old medical student Tarek Hassane, nicknamed "The Surgeon," was the mastermind of a plan to carry out a series of drive- by shootings, riding motor scooters, together with close friend, 21- year-old physics student Suhaib Majeed.
Authorities say he plotted to target police, military personnel and members of the public in West London, an attack inspired by a fatwa, issued by one of the world's most wanted men, ISIS spokesman Abu Mohammed al-Adnani.
The pair grew up in the same neighborhood and attended the same mosque as infamous ISIS executioner, Mohammed Emwazi, dubbed Jihadi John. Authorities say the pair had links to ISIS fighters as they planned their attacks and Hassane had also pledged allegiance to the terror group.
Police swooped in September 2014. They had been surveilling Majeed and also arrested Nathan Cuffy and Nyall Hamlett, who were found guilty on firearms charges only. They were acquitted of knowing anything about the terror plot.
MORGAN: At the time of their arrests, Hassane was in Sudan but undeterred, he returned to the U.K. intent on carrying out the plot alone. Police say that extensive digital data they found was evidence that he'd engaged in online reconnaissance of his targets.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell me why you looked at this image?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you like looking at police and army sites?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to join the army?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going to join the police?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment.
MORGAN (voice-over): But Hassan was more responsive during the trial, pleading guilty midway through. The drive-by terror plot is just one of 40 that the home secretary Theresa May says have been foiled in the U.K. since the deadly 7/7 bombings in 2005.
The British government has and continues to bolster its security and intelligence services. The threat level in the U.K. remains severe, meaning attack is highly likely -- Kellie Morgan, CNN, London.
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VAUSE: And authorities in France say they have foiled an imminent attack on the country, arresting a French national in the advanced stages of a terror plot. Officers carried out the raid in Argenteuil, a suburb outside of Paris. We'll bring you more details on that story as soon as we get them.
That arrest in France coincides with ongoing raids in Belgium. Next here on CNN, we'll head back to Max Foster in the Belgian capital, where the victims of Tuesday's attacks are being remembered with tributes and you will hear how an American survivor is honoring the dead and wounded.
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FOSTER: You're watching CNN's special coverage of the Brussels terror attacks and the ongoing investigation into Tuesday's atrocities here in the Belgian capital.
I'm Max Foster.
It is devastating pain, that's what the families of the victims of Brussels' attacks are going through right now, of course, 31 people were killed. More than 200 were injured and the survivors are honoring those who were not as lucky as they were.
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ASHLEY BRUGGEMANN, BELGIAN TOURIST: And a better way to end what was an absolutely surreal 24 hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): It's impossible to have too much hugging or holding of hands right now.
LYNN BRUGGEMANN, ASHLEY'S MOTHER: You go on survivor mode yesterday and today. And today it's sort of like, oh, my gosh, I could have lost my child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Ashley Bruggemann was in Brussels, ironically, for a conference about counterterrorism. She was leaving for Copenhagen and, for some reason, decided to go to the airport a half hour earlier.
ASHLEY BRUGGEMANN: Whatever guardian angel made me change my departure time was looking over me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): She had just walked past the area where the first bombs went off.
ASHLEY BRUGGEMANN: People just started running around the corner, panicked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): The next three hours, Ashley was shuttled from the loading dock to the airport hangar. At the same time in Wyckoff (ph), later, Ashley's mother woke up to news reports and bolted out of bed.
Thankfully, these texts were waiting for her.
LYNN BRUGGEMANN: We want to protect our children but they're adults and they're out in the world and we can't protect them from something like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): After driving to Paris, Ashley was able to get the --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): -- last seat on a flight to Newark and into her family's arms. She is feeling lucky, blessed and also something else.
ASHLEY BRUGGEMANN: Also just the anger at these people for trying to threaten our way of life and for trying to hurt us and to hurt people in places that I love so much.
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FOSTER: Well, that was Karen Lee (ph) with our affiliate, News 12 New Jersey (ph), with the story of a woman who lived to tell the nightmare that she encountered at the Brussels airport. (INAUDIBLE) sound problems there.
But you're watching CNN's continuing coverage of the Brussels attacks and the ongoing anti-terror operations here as well in the city. We have got updates for you coming in all the time.
I'm Max Foster, I'll be back from the break with the Belgian capital's latest news. And Natalie Allen will also be joining us from CNN headquarters to bring you the day's other top stories. Do stay with us.
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