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Clinton Aide: No Debate Unless Sanders Alters Tone; N.C. Law Limits Protection for LGBT; On the Campaign Trail with Donald Trump; Prosecutors: No Charges against Cops that Shot Jamar Clark. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 30, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:00] JOEL BENENSON, CHIEF STRATEGIST, HILLARY CLINTON PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Senator Sanders doesn't get to decide when we debate, particularly when he's running a very negative campaign against us. Let's see if he goes back to the tone he said he was going to set early on. If he does that, we're talk about debates.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So no chance of a New York debate?

BENENSON: I didn't say that. I said we're going to talk about it and see what tone he sets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Now, your aides say that Clinton is willing to debate. What changed here? Did Sanders' tone change, did the Clinton camp have a change of heart? What's going on?

BENENSON: First of all, I said, and you played the tape, which I'm glad, because I said, I never said we wouldn't debate, I said we would talk about it. I was referring to an article that had come out in the "Washington Post" the day before, where they were talking about poll testing attacks they would level against Hillary Clinton. Right now, the two campaigns are talking about having a debate some time in April.

Look, Hillary Clinton has also wanted to debate, has also liked debating, does well in debates. We had eight debates. And early on, when we agreed to the debates in February and March, we all said we would have a debate in April. Whether that happens in New York or Pennsylvania or where it will happen in April, that's what the two camps are talking about now.

Look, I think the most important thing voters want to hear is the two candidates debate the issues and where their differences are big or small. And that's what the rest of this primary in New York is going to be about.

BROWN: So to be clear, though, there will be a debate?

BENENSON: Well, I didn't say there will be. I said the two camps are talking, as I understand it. I believe those discussions are pointing towards a debate. But nothing has been agreed to yet. They're in discussions.

BROWN: All right, Joel Benenson, thank you very much.

BENENSON: Thank you.

BROWN: Up next, North Carolina's governor doubling down on a new law that prevents local governments from prohibiting discrimination. But does the law stand a chance once big business weighs in?

Plus, one reporter just spent 24 hours on the campaign trail with Donald Trump. Hear what she discovered, including what she says most people don't know about him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:25] BROWN: Criticism of a new North Carolina law that limits legal protections for LGBT people is mounting. Bank of America is now joining more than 80 companies urging the governor to repeal it. The law stops cities from passing antidiscrimination ordinances to protect gay and transgender people. And it requires people to use bathrooms that correspond with their birth gender.

But Governor Pat McCrory is not backing down and says the facts of the law are being distorted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT MCCRORY, (R), NORTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: My message is the same that it has been. We have not taken away any rights that currently existed in any city in North Carolina, from Raleigh to Durham to Chapel Hill to Charlotte. We have -- every city and every corporation has the exact same discrimination policy that they had this week as they had two weeks ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And I want to talk about this with Clay Aiken, a former Democratic congressional candidate from North Carolina; Rana Foroohar, CNN's global economic analyst.

Thanks to both of you for coming on.

Clay, I want to start with you, because just from the personal perspective. You're a North Carolina native, you call it home. What's your take on all of this?

CLAY AIKEN, (R), FORMER DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: It's disappointing to me. North Carolina has been a state that has been pretty deliberate in its past and its history, last state, one of the last states to sign the Bill of Rights, one of the last states to secede. And then in 2012, started kind of moving backwards with being the very final state, the last state to ban same-sex marriage, and now a law like this. It's very upsetting. We watched Indiana do it a few years ago with a similar bill that caused a lot of outrage. And to see my home state do it, is upsetting. To hear Governor McCrory say what he just said right there in the clip you played, which is incredibly disingenuous, because it's not accurate. The law --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So, yeah, he says basically we're not taking away any rights that were in place. What do you say to that?

AIKEN: That's not true. That's not true. The law itself says this new discrimination policy supersedes and preempts any ordinance that other cities in North Carolina have passed already. So it's taking those protections away in cities like Chapel Hill and Charlotte and Raleigh that already have them, and for him to say otherwise is not just disingenuous, it's completely dishonest.

BROWN: Rana, you have more than 80 companies, Apple, Google and Bank of America, based in Charlotte, pushing for the governor to repeal the law. And North Carolina's attorney general said it will set the state's economy back. What kind of impact could this have on North Carolina when it comes to attracting businesses, workers and students?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: It could have a big impact. If you look at what the industries are in North Carolina, that are really growing, it's the tech industry, it's the financial services industry. Most of the largest tech companies in America signed the letter of protest to the governor, companies like Apple, Facebook, Yahoo!. You've got Bank of America, the largest employer in the state by revenue, saying we don't like this, it's not part of how you create a growth environment for companies. And so I think it really could have a serious impact.

I think you're also seeing more and more coalitions of business leaders really coming together at a state by state level to legislation like this. Mark Benoff (ph), the CEO of sales force, was part of a campaign to fight similar legislation in Georgia, to turn back anti-gay legislation in Indiana. I think it's going to be a big competitive issue.

BROWN: Clay, unlike North Carolina, Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe vetoed an anti-LGBT bill, saying, quote, "We're not going to tolerate discrimination and it's bad for business." Why do you think North Carolina's law passed?

[14:40:07] AIKEN: Well, one of the reasons it passed is because they did it sort of in the dark of night. They did it under cover, came back from recess to pass this law. And because they did it secretively, they didn't have the issue that Georgia had just this last week where Nathan Deal had pressure, he had not signed the law yet, not done anything with it, he had pressure from Disney and a lot of movie studios to take business out of Georgia. Since North Carolina snuck this in under the wire and Governor McCrory didn't have the pressure from the companies who have come out and spoke against it, they were able to get it through without having that backlash.

I think, you know, the Republicans in the general assembly have miscalculated. They believe this is something to give them cover in an election year, but the people of North Carolina -- North Carolina's a purple state at best now, and the people of North Carolina are certainly paying attention to this. And they're recognizing that the GOP in North Carolina has made it a bathroom issue, but this law goes so much further than that. It's -- it doesn't --

(CROSSTALK)

FOROOHAR: You know, it's interesting because this idea of how this is going to impact voters actually connects with why companies are concerned about it. Most Millennials are for gay marriage. They're for equal rights for this community. For the companies that are saying, hey, we don't want this, it's also a consumer issue just as it's a voting issue.

BROWN: And employees as well.

FOROOHAR: Yeah.

BROWN: And, Rana, given what Clay said, if this was indeed a miscalculation, and given all the pressure that the governor is under right now, with this law, what should his next move be now? Do you think this pressure will get him to change his mind?

(LAUGHTER)

FOROOHAR: I don't think he has a lot of good options, P.R. wise. But I think what's interesting is you do see companies, even after laws like this have been passed, coming in and continuing to campaign, continuing to say, can we turn back this legislation. And I think that if you start to see a jobs impact, particularly in an economy like the one we have right now, that is very competitive, a recovery that is still fairly weak, you might see a change of heart on the part of politicians.

AIKEN: The Senators and representatives in North Carolina and the general assembly have gerrymandered their districts where they're playing to their base with this. Governor McCrory has been controlled by the general assembly because they had super majorities that could override even vetoes he put through. They're not going to be pressured because of their bases in their congressional districts, their House and Senate districts within the state are so red that they're playing to the far right. I don't see him necessarily backing down on this. And as a Democrat, I think it puts Roy Cooper, the attorney general, who is against it, it puts him in a much better position for November.

BROWN: But he's certainly feeling the pressure from businesses.

Clay Aiken, Rana Foroohar, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

And up next on this Wednesday, who is the real Donald Trump? One reporter spent a whole day with Trump. What he says most people don't know about him, and how he would handle the nation's nuclear launch codes, up next.

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[14:42:00] BROWN: We've seen the rallies, we've heard the stump Trump speeches, we have read the tweets, but what's it really like to be on the campaign trail with Republican presidential front runner, Donald Trump?

Today, we're talking with someone who knows. The senior editor of "People" magazine followed Trump for 24 hours. The cover story, "Who is the Real Donald Trump?" The exclusive inside story hits stands nationwide on April 11th.

And "People" magazine editor, Charlotte Triggs, joins me to share her experience.

Charlotte, this was not your first time interviewing Trump, but what was different this time? Did you learn anything new about him that you didn't already know?

CHARLOTTE TRIGGS, EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Yeah, there was some interesting insight. I interviewed him six months ago when he was on the campaign trail, but it was a whole different world. He didn't have Secret Service protection. People were dropping by his office to say hello. It's really a different scenario now. I did the first part of the interview in his office in Trump Tower, and it was on total lockdown. Secret Service everywhere. He even lamented the fact that it used to be a lot nicer before. Then on the campaign trail the next day, there's really a rough element. There are people clashing all over the place, protesters and the Trump supporters. You know, and it was really -- it's really an interesting scene. There's a lot of -- it's very divided right now.

BROWN: Tell us about those encounters with fans and protesters.

TRIGGS: You know, I talked to both supporters and protesters before the rally and also after the rally. I notice that on their way in, everyone that I spoke to was very articulate. They wanted to explain their message, and they were really calm. Afterwards, people were really riled up. I started to see people getting into fights. I saw Trump supporters spitting on people that he assumed were, you know, undocumented immigrants, with no real reason to believe that. And I heard accounts of people having been beaten up in the stands.

#; You also learned more about Trump as a person, his day-to-day routines, including his sleep schedule, or lack thereof, as well as whether or not he has a workout regimen. Tell us what you learned on that front?

TRIGGS: He's very proud of the fact he doesn't need a lot of sleep. He needs no more than four hours of sleep a day, and he has stamina he claims his competitor just don't he says he doesn't need any exercise because when you're on the campaign trail and when he says you're making America great again, you get a lot of exercise just naturally. And I have heard from a lot of people that he's actually a big fast food fan, but he told me he lost 15 pounds on the trail because there's not time to eat and because he's so worked up that, you know, he's burning a lot of calories.

BROWN: He also talked about more serious matters when it comes to having his finger on the nuclear button, and how people feel about that, their fears. What did he say?

TRIGGS: Yeah, people are scared of the idea of him having his finger on the button, but he says he would actually much slower to the draw than people would imagine. He thinks he would be slower than some of the people he's running against. And that, you know, in his own words, no one would mess with the United States, but he would be very slow to actually engage because he does realize the severity of that.

[14:50:06] BROWN: We hear him talk about his family a lot on the trail. Did you see his family? What was that like?

TRIGGS: I interviewed him with Melania the previous time six months ago. This time, Melania was home taking care of Baron, who turned 10 the weekend, before I was with him. But he said has been kicking into overdrive. He says it's been tough on them. He misses them, but they meet up every couple weekends in Mara-lago or back home in New York City.

BROWN: Charlotte Triggs, thank you very much. We'll check out the article in "People" magazine.

TRIGGS: Thank you.

BROWN: And we have breaking news to tell you about at this hour. Prosecutors announcing they will not charge two police officers in the shooting death of an African-American man. Protesters starting to gather right now in a major American city. We'll take you there, up next.

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[14:55:01] BROWN: Protests are under way right now in Minneapolis after it was announced today that two officers will not face charges in the shooting death in November of Jamar Clark. The 24-year-old Africa-American was shot in the head during a scuffle with two white cops. And investigators say Clark had attacks his girlfriend and interfered with paramedics before grabbing an officer's gun. But witnesses say Clark was handcuffed when he was shot. And now members of Black Lives Matter and the Minneapolis chapter of the NAACP are expressing frustration and outrage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEKIMA LEVY-ROUNDS, PRESIDENT, MINNEAPOLIS NAACP: We saw him being violently grabbed to the ground. We heard from witness statements that contradict what you and the officers are stating. And you did not give any credence or credibility to what the witnesses on the north side had to say about what happened. That is the problem with this system today. It's very difficult for the average citizen to get justice in a system that protects officers who engage in misconduct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's go straight to Ryan Young who has been following this story. Ryan, what led to this decision?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, people are very upset about this. In fact, the decision has been taken four months, as they did the investigation. We wanted to show you what was going on right now on the ground. If you look behind me, you can see parts of the community starting to gather. They have signs out. This is the exact spot where Jamar Clark was shot and killed. Community members do plan to get together around 6:00. Some people decided they wanted to come out earlier because they want to let the city know their frustrations. In fact, they have been talking about this for several months. They wanted an independent investigation. They did not want some of the details that came out today to take so long to come out. In facts, the prosecutor talked about this investigation and what the officers faced that night.

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MIKE FREEMAN, HENNEPIN COUNTY, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: Forensic evidence and video evidence both support the belief that Clark was not handcuffed at any time through the altercation. Accordingly, the Hennepin County attorney's office has concluded that criminal charges are not warranted against either Officer Mark Greenberg (ph) or Officer Dustin Schwartz (ph).

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YOUNG: So I want to show you this porch. We talked to several people in the community back four months ago, and they said they watched from that porch when Jamar Clark was struggling with the officers. In fact, we'll also show you the video from the back of the ambulance. Officers and the prosecutor are contending there was a struggle after Jamar Clark walked over to his girlfriend, who they believe he battered before the shooting. He stopped them --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Forgive me. Let's listen in to the mayor, Ryan. He's addressing it right now, another official in the city. Let's listen.

BETSY HODGES, (D) MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR: My heart breaks for the loss of Jamar Clark's life and for the pain felt by everybody involved in this incident. There is a tear that has ripped through our community, one we cannot sew back up. Together, as a city and as a people, we can walk through this tear to build what we all want, a city that is safe and a city that is equitable for everyone.

I absolutely support the right to express those emotions and to demonstrate peaceably. It is as much the job of the city of Minneapolis to facilitate the peaceful expression of free speech as it is to keep everyone safe, residents, businesses, visitors, police officers, bystanders, and demonstrators.

I thank County Attorney Mike Freeman for his transparency, his professionalism, and his willingness to be publicly accountable for his decision. I also appreciate his thorough explanation of the process of the process that he and his office followed to reach the decision as well as his choice to release all of the evidence obtained during the course of the investigation.

I want to talk about what the legal process is going to look like moving forward. In addition to the independent investigation by the BCA, the chief and I requested a separate federal investigation by the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. Once that investigation has been completed, the Civil Rights Division and U.S. attorney will determine whether the federal government will bring any charges. Once that investigation concludes, MPD will thoroughly review all available evidence from the independent investigations and will be able to make a decision regarding discipline moving forward from there.

Chief Hartell (ph) will follow. But I want to say a word of thanks. I'm joined today by many members of the Minneapolis city council. And I appreciate it that we are able --

[14:59:40] BROWN: Of course, we'll keep an eye on the ground there in Minneapolis as this story continues to unfold in the wake of this announcement that no charges will be held against the two cops in the shooting death there in Minneapolis.

All right, on to the next hour.

I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

More fallout from the video that led to the Donald Trump campaign manager being criminally charged.