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Donald Trump Wants to Punish Women Who Have Abortions; Exclusive Interview With "Different Strokes" Star Todd Bridges. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 30, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They put three or five in jail. Everybody dispersed. They moves those cars. I'm telling you, in five minutes, that road flowed. It was so beautiful to watch. You saw that, right? It was unbelievable.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So all of this happening, this rally in Wisconsin. At the same time that we are learning about Donald Trump's comments to MSNBC, saying that, suggesting that women who have abortions should be punished.

I want to bring in Sara Murray who has been covering the Trump campaign from the very beginning.

Sara, what is your reaction to this, because some would say this is -- Donald Trump used to be pro-choice and now not only is he saying he's pro-life, but he is suggesting women who get abortions should be punished?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (on the phone): That's right, Pam. And I think what you're seeing is Donald Trump sort learning on the fly how to navigate this issue. Because as you said, he has evolved on this. And in the past when he has been pressed for specifics about his view on abortion and how he would like people to deal with it, he sort of dodged the question and then unwilling to get into that. And obviously, MSNBC pressed him so a little bit further on it and here we are now.

And I think what you're seeing is a reaction, of course, we're seeing this panned by liberals as you would expect. So we are also seeing a sort of freak-out, a panic for lack of a better word, from Republicans who are saying, this undermines everything that sort of the pro-life movement has worked for. Their argument, if you are anti-abortion, if you are pro-life, is this belief you are trying to save babies' lives, not that you're trying to punish women for having abortions. That's how the conservative movement has tried to frame this argument. And so, to see Donald Trump come out and say not only should we potentially ban abortions, but there should be a punishment for women. Conservatives are looking at this saying Donald Trump can just set us back in this argument and liberals are going to use this to harpoon us even more in the fight for women voters.

BROWN: And Sara, this is all coming at a time when, as we know, Donald Trump has been facing some controversy about his comments about women. You know, there's talk about him losing women voters. How could this impact that, particularly when we're just, you know, less than a week away from the Wisconsin primaries?

MURRAY: That's a great question, Pam. Because when you talk to people who are, you know, political experts here in the state of Wisconsin, one of the weaknesses as they believe for Donald Trump in this state will be with women voters, particularly in southeastern Wisconsin, particularly in this ring of suburbs that surround Milwaukee. And they, you know, point to the comments that he has made so far. And I guarantee you that they are going to start pointing to this as well, as an indication that Donald Trump is not -- that his values, that you know, his views do not align even with conservative women.

Now, they have been sort of hammering home argument so far. But obviously, in light of everything, his campaign manager is dealing with, this you know, this battery charge with the female reporter, and then these comments on abortion, I think you're going to start to see more conservatives push back. And in fact, we're already seeing John Kasich react to this, saying, you know of course, women shouldn't be punished for having an abortion. You're going to hear more and more of conservatives and a lot at Wisconsin.

BROWN: All right. Sara Murray, thank you for that. We are going to have more of the fallout when we talk to a Trump campaign chairwoman right after this break. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:38] BROWN: Welcome back.

In case you're just now joining us, we want to go ahead and listen to what Donald Trump told MSNBC's Chris Matthews today in a pre-taping about his views on abortion and whether women who have abortions should be punished. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC ANCHOR: Should a woman be punished for having an abortion?

TRUMP: Look.

MATTHEWS: This is not something you can dodge. If you say abortion is a crime, or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. Should abortion be punished?

TRUMP: Well, people in certain parts of the Republican Party and conservative Republicans would say yes, they should be punished.

MATTHEWS: How about you?

TRUMP: I would say it's a very serious problem. And it's a problem we have to decide on. It's very --

MATTHEWS: You're for banning it.

TRUMP: Are you going to say put them in jail? MATTHEWS: Now, I'm asking you. Because you say you want to ban it.

What does that mean?

TRUMP: I'm against -- I'm pro-life.

MATTHEWS: How do you ban abortion? How do you do it?

TRUMP: You know, you go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

TRUMP: But you have to ban it.

MATTHEWS: You ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school.

TRUMP: Are you catholic?

MATTHEWS: Yes.

TRUMP: How do you feel about the Catholic Church's position?

MATTHEWS: Well, I accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues.

TRUMP: I know. But do you know their position on abortion?

MATTHEWS: Yes, I do.

TRUMP: Do you concur?

MATTHEWS: I concur with their moral position. But legally, here's my problem with it --

TRUMP: No, no. But let me ask you. What do you say --?

MATTHEWS: It's not funny.

TRUMP: Yes. It's really not funny. What do you say about your church? They're very strong --

MATTHEWS: The churches make their moral judgments, but you running for president of the United States will be chief executive of the United States. Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes. There has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents, 10 years?

TRUMP: I don't know. MATTHEWS: Why not? You take positions on everything else.

TRUMP: I frankly - I do take positions on everything else. It's a very complicated position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Let's talk this over with former prosecutor Wendy Murphy and Tana Goertz from the Trump campaign.

Tana, first to you. You're in Wisconsin right now, in Appleton, of course, where we have heard Donald Trump speaking live at a rally. Looks like we're trying to figure out her shot. So I'm going to go to Wendy Murphy, because Wendy, Donald Trump, as we heard him say in that clip, says that flat out, that women should be punished for getting abortions.

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: He may as well have held up a sign saying I don't want any woman to ever vote for me. And I know that there are women who disagree, but it's just such an offensive position to take if you're looking for the women's vote, that he didn't find something else to say, a different way to frame it. I mean, he could have said, no, I don't want to punish the women. Maybe we should have incentives for doctors not to do these abortions or maybe we punish doctors, which I also disagree with. But he could have said something about respecting the burdens on women.

I was shocked. I mean, it's such an anti-women position. It made me think, isn't this the same guy who wants to do away with ISIS because in part they are so barbaric against women? I'm not clear why he did this strategically. He needs the women's vote. I think he just cut off a significant number of women who might have voted for him by making that remark.

BROWN: All right. Let's bring in Tana to get more on the strategy. What do you think about this? I mean she is basically saying that this is going to hurt his ability to get women voters, that he's cutting them off with comments like this.

TANA GOERTZ, IOWA STATE CO-CHAIRWOMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I totally disagree. I'm at these rallies with Mr. Trump. You know, three fourths of the audience are females. And this is not going to affect his voters. I know for a fact that women are supporting him, are strong, they are committed. They're loyal to Mr. Trump. And I mean, they didn't get the meat of the story. They don't know exactly what he was talking about. We'll find out more about that a little later. I mean, this just happened.

BROWN: Well, he did say flat out there, after being pressed by Chris Matthews, that yes, women who get abortions should be punished because abortion is a crime. But when he was asked if men who get the women pregnant should be punished, he said no. Do you agree with that?

GOERTZ: I mean, this just happened, like I said. Mr. Trump - I mean, he is pro-life. He has said he is pro-life. He believes in life. I mean, he just had a brand-new baby boy, of course, and that's what he talks about. He's so proud of that, Ivanka's third child, and he talks about Teddy. So we know Mr. Trump loves children, believes in, you know, the whole image of family and he's pro-life. I mean, he said that time and time again.

BROWN: He also said he was pro-choice several years ago. So he used toe pro-choice, and he's said his views on the issues have evolved.

GOERTZ: Right. And since I have known Mr. Trump, which has been 11 years. He has been pro-life. And he has not changed his opinion on that. So I can only speak for the man I know and the man that I know has those beliefs. And those are my beliefs. So I completely support him, as do all these women here so far. I mean, I'm walking around, and nobody has ever asked me one question, I mean, I traveled with him since day one here, and not one question has ever been about pro-life, pro-choice, where is Mr. Trump's stance on that. The women who love and support Mr. Trump, that's not one of their top concerns.

BROWN: And to be clear, it's one thing to be pro-life, it's another to then take it a step further and say women who get abortions should be punished.

We are just now getting this statement in from the Trump campaign saying this issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination. Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions, which I have outlined numerous times.

We'll be right back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:23] BROWN: Right now, leaders of Japan and South Korea are arriving in Washington, holding nuclear talks with President Obama. The president's goal, to stop nuclear proliferation around the globe. But if Trump had his way, the spread of nuclear weapons around the world might not be the worst thing. Here's what he told Anderson Cooper in last night's town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: At some point, we have to say, you know what, we're better off if japan protects itself against this maniac in North Korea. We're better off frankly if South Korea is going to start to protect itself.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, AC 360: Saudi Arabia, nuclear weapon?

TRUMP: Saudi Arabia, absolutely.

COOPER: You don't have a problem with them having nuclear weapons.

TRUMP: No. Not nuclear weapons. But they have to protect themselves or they have to pay us.

COOPER: So - but if you say to Japan, yes, it's fine. You get nuclear weapons South Korea, you as well. Saudi Arabia says we want them too. TRUMP: Can I be honest? It's going to happen anyway. It's only a

question of time. They are going to start happening or we have to get rid of them entirely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Joining me now, Joseph Cirincione, global security expert, president of the Ploughshares Fund and author of "Nuclear Nightmares."

Joe, thanks for coming on. Is there any credence to his thinking here?

JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, GLOBAL SECURITY EXPERT: None whatsoever. Donald Trump has just thrown over 70 years of bipartisan civilian military, congressional, executive consensus that we don't want anyone to get nuclear weapons.

Every president since Harry Truman has tried to stop other countries from getting nuclear weapons. No exceptions. We didn't encourage Israel to get them or France to get them or Great Britain to get them. Even though those countries eventually got them. We especially didn't want Japan and Germany to get them. This is what motivated John F. Kennedy in the 1960s to start the effort for the global nonproliferation treaty.

Germany and Japan were exploring nuclear weapons programs. We wanted to stop them. We did stop them. Donald Trump has just thrown that overboard in saying, no, let's give it to them. This is national security insanity.

BROWN: Well, and he also said that he is against nuclear proliferation, we should point that out. But how have countries like Japan and South Korea responded to them?

CIRINCIONE: Their leaders have made strong statements of shock and disbelief in their own countries. I expect you might see their leaders here in Washington over the next couple of days reaffirming those statements. They strongly believe in the alliance with the United States. They believe the United States has the conventional military power to protect Japan and South Korea, and of course we extend that to include our nuclear weapons as well, which is why Japan and South Korea don't believe they need nuclear weapons.

You do see some rightist elements, some far right conservatives in those countries talking about getting nuclear weapons. That has been a minority sentiment. It's shocking to see it come out of the mouths of their presumptive GOP nominee.

[15:50:10] BROWN: Quickly, Joe, what do you make of Trump's claim that NATO obsolete?

CIRINCIONE: NATO doesn't certainly feel that way. NATO has been the most successful military alliance in history. It would be crazy for us to abandon this at this point. Adapt it, modify it, change the burden-sharing arrangements, of course, but give it up? No. Countries are clamoring to come into NATO, not to leave NATO. We would be foolish to abandon that alliance.

BROWN: Joe Cirincione, thank you for sharing your perspective.

CIRINCIONE: Thank you.

BROWN: And up next on this Wednesday, CNN takes you back to the 80s in our new original series and "Different Strokes" star Todd Bridges will join me live to share some of his favorite stories from that decade.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:06] BROWN: All right. So pull out your VCR if you still have one and get ready to watch and record CNN's new original series "the '80s." It premieres tomorrow night. And the first episode takes a look back at the hallmark TV shows that made the era so memorable, like this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where's your bracelet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's right here. My dad flipped when he saw it. He said I was too young to be going steady. He sort of forbid me to see you anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I forbid you from seeing him anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's remember that show. And joining me now is one of the stars from "Different Strokes," Willis, aka actor, producer and director Todd Bridges. He's in Vegas right now hosting a new show at the Plaza Hotel, "lovers and losers."

Todd, thanks so much for coming on.

TODD BRIDGES, ACTOR, DIFFERENT STROKES: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

BROWN: You know, "the '80s" strikes a chord with so many people. It was a special era with the music and the TV shows. Talk about being an actor during that time what, that decade meant to you and why so many TV shows from that era still resonate with people.

BRIDGES: Well, I think because back in those days in the '80s, TV shows actually meant something and they all had like a beginning, a middle and an end. And they were always very helpful toward people, you know, learning how to live their life, learning how to live it the right way. And if you look at all the '80s shows, they were great shows, you know. And then somewhere along the line it got muttered up and now we just have showed that were about nothing.

And back in the '80s, all of our shows meant something. And it meant something to children, it meant something to adults and you could like actually let your child watch it without being fear that something bad is going to come on and something bad is going to happen in it that a kid wouldn't understand.

BROWN: And that was back in the day when everyone in the family huddled around the TV on the couch and watched the show. Now, it is a different in that way too. You and your last cast mate, Gary Coleman, were one of the few black actors on primetime television in the '80s. How big of a deal was it to get that role?

BRIDGES: Well, I actually was a show before that. I was on the ABC in a show called "Fish" before I got "Different Strokes." And what happened was "Fish" got cancelled. And when Fish" got cancelled, they realized that Gary Coleman needed an older brother so I came right off another series to "Different Strokes."

BROWN: Gotcha.

BRIDGES: And it was Robert Bergliotti, was the late who accomplished all that. So she brought me to "Different Strokes." And I actually auditioned for several shows back then. "The Mickey Mouse club" and "Mork and Mindy." And I had to make a decision between which show that I wanted to do and I chose "Different Strokes," which was probably the best thing that I did.

BROWN: I was going to say.

BRIDGES: Yes.

BROWN: And of course that is one of your favorite shows from the '80s, but I have to ask you which other shows of your favorites from that decade?

BRIDGES: From that decade, "Miami Vice" was a great show. I used to love "all in the family," I love "the Jefferson's," "Gimme a Break, one day at a time," "Silver spoon." I love all those shows. They all were great shows to watch.

BROWN: They certainly were. And we showed that clip of you with Janet Jackson from your show. I think - I don't know --.

BRIDGES: Yes.

BROWN: Her joining that cast, I imagine, was a really big deal back then. What was it like working with her? Do you remember when she sang to you on that one episode?

BRIDGES: Well, what happened was actually she was on "Good Times" at the time which was --- and I'd always see her walking in the hallways. And they decided that they needed to find me a girlfriend. I was like I already got one, just hire Janet. Hire her as my girlfriend. They hired her as my girlfriend and it was it was history. We had our fair share, a lot of fun and we went out a lot and did a lot of things together so it was a lot of fun back then.

In the '80s, we were also a lot more safer for kids to be out in the streets. Like you could go -- a kid could go, you know, four, five, 6-year-olds could go down the street and they were pretty very rarely - they were very safe. And nowadays it's not as safe as it was back then.

BROWN: Sadly. The cast of "Different Strokes" suffered a lot of tragedy, as we know.

BRIDGES: Yes.

BROWN: You know, you and Dana struggled publicly with substance abuse. How often do you think of that and what you all went through?

BRIDGES: Well, for me, it made me into a better human being because now I can counsel different people for different situations. When Dana passed away, that was a big blow to me. When Gary passed away, it was a big blow to me. But the biggest blow to me was when Conrad passed away. That really hurt me because I was talking to him on a regular basis. He was like a dad to me. And I recently saw Charlotte Ray, recently saw her. She's still doing well. And you know, just knowing that I'm like one of the last survivors of that particular core show is a blessing in itself because everyone thought that I'd be the first to go and I ended up to be in the last man standing.

BROWN: And you are still going strong.

Todd Bridges, thank you very much.

And don't forget CNN new original series, "THE EIGHTIES" starts tomorrow night at 9:00.