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Wolf
New Wisconsin Polling Numbers; Candidates Talk Foreign Policy at CNN Town Hall; Europe's Spider Web of Terror Cells; Radicalized Return to Europe after Fighting in Syria. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired March 30, 2016 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At the same time, Wolf, it's worth saying, investors are continuing to search for the third suspected bomber and a second possible bomber from the metro station.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Those two terror attacks, 35 confirmed dead and hundreds injured.
Alexandra, thank you very much.
Coming up, we are just getting in new numbers on the race for the White House. New polling information from the critically important state of Wisconsin on the Democratic and Republican presidential contests. We'll share those numbers with you when we come back.
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[13:34:46] BLITZER: the Wisconsin primary only six days away. In a new poll out a few moments ago shows Senator Ted Cruz with a 10-point lead over Donald Trump. The Marquette Law School poll shows Cruz at 40 percent, Trump 30 percent, and Ohio Governor John Kasich 21 percent. There's a six percent sampling error. On the Democratic side, Senator Bernie Sanders leads Secretary Hillary Clinton, 49-45 percent. A six-point sampling error on the Democratic side as well.
Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, is with us.
Pretty impressive. Despite the sampling error, impressive lead Cruz has over Trump in Wisconsin.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. When you look at the last polls we saw in February, Cruz is up 19 points and Trump is unchanged and Kasich is up eight points in February. You have to ask yourself the question, what's affecting this on the Republican side? I'm not sure. I'd like to see where the gender numbers are for Donald Trump in this poll to see whether that has affected his slide to a degree. Obviously, we haven seen the establishment coalesce around Cruz, although this poll was taken before the governor's endorsement of Cruz.
On the Democratic side, the Sanders people have always thought this was going to be a good state for Sanders, although the margin is closer here because it is one of those states that have a large white population which Sanders does well with. Large university population in the state, which Sanders does well with. They will be happy with this, as well.
BLITZER: Does well with young people obviously, as well. It is interesting, if you look at the Republican side, Cruz is at 40, up 19 since February, Trump at 30, but that is unchanged. He plateaued for now at 30 percent. Kasich is up 8 percentage points from February to 21 percent.
BORGER: The problem that Donald Trump has been having and we'll see whether he continues to have it. Usually, at this point in an election, if you are the favorite, and the front runner is Donald Trump, unquestionably is, it should be a time when your support starts to lead to coalescing. Clearly, it is not happening in the state of Wisconsin. Not at this point. There's still time to go before the primary on April 5th.
BLITZER: Gloria, thank you very much.
BORGER: Sure.
BLITZER: Six days until Wisconsin and then other big states coming up.
BORGER: You bet.
BLITZER: Coming up, the Republican candidates get pressed on foreign policy issues at the town hall, from Trump calling NATO, quote, "obsolete" to Cruz defending his plan to patrol Muslim neighborhoods in the United States. We will get our military and national security experts to weigh in.
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[13:41:30] BLITZER: At last night's Republican town hall on CNN, each candidate had a chance to talk about international and national security issues. Donald Trump stood by his opinion of NATO becoming an increasingly obsolete organization, but he wasn't alone in calling for a change in U.S. strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I think it is largely obsolete. Yeah. It has to be changed. You don't talk about terror. Our single biggest threat right now is terror. That's an amorphous term, but it is terror. Our single biggest threat is terror.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You would like to see the organization revamped, either NATO.
TRUMP: Revamped, if you do that, you will have to add different nations in, because you have nations not in NATO that are very much in the world of terror.
JOHN KASICH, (R), OHIO GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to change NATO not just from a military organization but an intelligence gathering and also a policing organization that works across boundaries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joining us Josh Rogin, CNN political analyst and national security columnist for "Bloomberg View"; also retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, a former U.S. assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs.
General Kimmitt, what do you think of this notion that NATO increasingly is obsolete and time for the U.S. to consider its involvement.
BRIG GEN. MARK KIMMITT, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AND MILITARY AFFAIRS: I think Governor Kasich had it right. It is not obsolete. It needs to transform, but it has transformed significantly from the days when it was an Iron Curtain organization. Look what it went through in the '90s. The old expression, "Out of sector of out of business." It went to the Balkans and did a wonderful job. They have deployed to Afghanistan on a combat mission. They are constantly transforming. Yes, are there problems, certainly. Does it need to transform, yes. Better burden sharing, yes.
BLITZER: European allies picking up their expenditures as opposed to the United States which pays a bigger percentage of their GDP.
KIMMITT: Always the argument, it needs to be 2 percent or more. Three countries exceed that, the United States, Turkey and Greece. And obviously, Turkey and Greece have other motivations for keeping it above 2 percent.
BLITZER: The whole notion, the complaint that Trump and others make, NATO was a great organization during the Cold War dealing with the then-Soviet Union, but in the war against terror, as an organization, it has been invisible. Got involved in Afghanistan as an organization, but really, as an organization, it plays no role in the war against ISIS right now.
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There's a couple of things. First, we are seeing a resurgent Russia. That's put a lot of fear in Eastern Europe. I met with the polish president an hour ago and he is calling for more U.S. involvement in NATO. And he made the same point John Kasich made, which is that the U.S. has a unique role in the world and, even though presidential candidates deal with U.S. interests, in the end, a safe and secure Europe is in the U.S. interests. So the Europeans want more American support. They want more American help. They know they have to do more themselves. But the idea that NATO should be just about terrorism and not the other problems that face European security is not shared by anyone in Europe.
BLITZER: General Kimmitt, the terror attack issue, especially in Brussels the other day came up in the CNN town hall. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KASICH: Part of the problem is their governments over there, too much socialism, too much political correctness. That's why they didn't catch this thing in Brussels.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The tragedy, these terror attacks in Europe are a result of failed immigration policies when they have allowed vast numbers of Islamic terrorists to come in to Europe. They are in communities that are isolated. They're called no-go communities, where law enforcement doesn't engage in those communities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: You want to weigh in first?
[13:45:10] ROGIN: Sure. Two things Cruz got wrong. The Brussels and Paris attackers weren't immigrants. They weren't refugees. They were born and raised in Europe.
BLITZER: Their parents or grandparents may have been immigrants.
ROGIN: Sure, a long time ago. But the point is radicalization of people from these countries is this issue. It's not really about the refugees, although, they sometimes use the refugee name. The other thing, there are no no-go zones. I was in Brussels the day before the attacks. Police were all over Molenbeek. They were doing raids. That's part of the reason why they got the guy that did the Paris attacks. This idea there are these Muslim no-go zones in Europe is just not borne out by the facts.
BLITZER: What do you make of what Kasich said, basically that these are socialist governments in Belgium, supposedly. And they really are afraid to do what they need to do to deal with these terror threats.
KIMMITT: In some way, I agree with him. The larger problem, it goes back to your issue about NATO, there is no or very little intelligence sharing between the countries. Most of it stays within their sovereign boundaries. That's where NATO can help. As Governor Kasich said, NATO ought to be as much an intelligence gathering organization and intelligence fusion organization. That's the real key to attacking and defeating the terrorism problem inside of Europe.
BLITZER: I'm at least glad they are talking about these major national security issues. It's a lot more interesting than other stuff going on in this political campaign.
All right, guys, thank you very much.
KIMMITT: Thank you.
BLITZER: Up next, Europe's spider web of terror cells. We'll take a closer look at how radicals are building an army ready to kill at a moment's notice. Stay with us.
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[13:50:52] BLITZER: The terror attacks in Brussels certainly have highlighted the growing danger in Europe posed by radicalization. The attacks there and in Paris carried out by locals, many of whom traveled to the war zone in Syria. More than 900 of them have returned home to Europe. Could be seen as ticking time bombs ready to integrate back into their communities, but not as neighbors, but as part of a sophisticated fighting terror force.
Our terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, takes us through the terror family tree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: What is clear is that there is an ISIS terrorist network operating in Europe. The logistic hump of the network is in Brussels.
The top leadership of ISIS, including Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, green- lighted a strategy of terrorist attacks against the West, notably in Europe. The ISIS commander with overall responsibility for those attacks is Abu Mohammad al Adnany. Within that external operations division of ISIS. Within that external operations division, it is believed there are a number of French and Belgian ISIS operatives, including Fabian Clare (ph). Investigators believe that Mohamed Belkaid was the overall commander of both of the Paris attacks and the Brussels attacks. One of the people setting those plots in motion in 2014 and 2015 was Abdelhamid al Abaaoud, the ring leader of the Paris attacks. Belkaid and Najim Laachraoui, the suspected bombmaker, remained in Brussels during the Paris attacked and coordinated the Paris attacks from Brussels, over the phone, over text messages, in touch with the three attack teams that night. There were 10 ISIS operatives who were tasked with launching the Paris attacks. Nine of them were killed in the Paris attacks. Mohamed Abrini was the driver. He is still on the run. Salah Abdeslam survived the Paris attacks. His suicide vest either didn't work or he didn't carry out the attack. He returned back to Brussels and connected with the overall chief of the cell, Mohamed Belkaid. Belkaid had recruited others, was giving orders to others to plan a follow-on attack in Brussels.
When Belgian police moved in to search an apartment in the district of Brussels on the 15th of March, a property they believe was linked to the Paris attacks, they were surprised to find multiple gunmen inside who opened fire. One of those gunmen was Belkaid.
He provided covering fire to pin back police as others inside that safe house escaped through the roofs, including Salah Abdeslam, who was later arrested. Belkaid was then killed by a Belgian police sniper.
When Salah Abdeslam's safe house was discovered by Belgian security services earlier this month, they then accelerated the plan and launched an attack on the airport and metro.
(SHOUTING)
CRUICKSHANK: There are eight individuals that they are still looking for in connection with the Paris and Brussels attacks, including one of the three men who was seen on CCTV footage running away from the trolley with what they think he had a suitcase bomb inside. Thursday, in Paris, French police thwarted a terrorist plot against France by an individual. That led to arrests on Friday in Belgium. It also led to an arrest in Rotterdam. What is not clear at this point is how closely all these people were working together. But they all have the common denominator of Abdelhamid al Abaaoud, the cell leader in Paris on the night of the Paris attacks, an operative who ISIS touts with talent spotting Europeans and setting them in motion to launch terrorist attacks in Europe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[13:55:17] BLITZER: We thank you Paul for that excellent explanation.
Joining us now to talk about the ISIS terror network, from Toronto, Mubin Shaikh, a former jihadist, former counterterrorism operative.
Mubin, thanks for joining us.
You have also spoken about the so-called spider web of terror growing in Europe. How far does this web stretch?
MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST & FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM OPERATIVE: Well, you've heard in the last segment some of where that network is coming out of, and never mind where it goes into, Belgium, France, and again, the countries nearby, Germany, Italy. And again, you know, "The New York Times" ran an article about how these networks developed, under quote/unquote, "Europe's gaze." Two years ago, I was online. Other researchers were watching this happen in real time where they talked about it. They talked about we'll be sending people back, and this is what we're seeing on the manifestations of those earlier laid plans.
BLITZER: That report you're referring to in "The New York Times" spoke about recruitment, about operations of the ISIS-led attackers, would-be attackers. But they also said this. They talk about how some operatives can be identified, recruited, trained, and sent on their mission, basically within a week, within a week. Does that sound right to you?
SHAIKH: You would need more than a week's worth of training to be doing that. But what's happened is these networks have been created and expanded for two years. So you have people who are already trained, and already indoctrinated sufficiently to carry out these attacks. One week is now, in terms of sending people in, those attacks could be done very easily. Of course, there is a local network that needs to provide logistics and other support, and that's where interdiction and intervention can prevent these attacks.
BLITZER: The process sounds relatively professional right now. Some have said it's like building an actual army. Many of these terrorists are giving tactical autonomy. Tell us how that works.
SHAIKH: Yeah, tactical autonomy. When you have -- I mean, the general strategy is known: Hit them, hit them hard and make them hurt. And any way you can do that, find the target yourselves, you don't need to relay this back to us. If it's a good target and a good hit and the media, you know, it's really carried out, it's a successful attack. And they'll take credit for it. You'll see a video, an article in one of their glossy magazines celebrating it. And the recent Belgium attacks, they showed videos of them handing out candies to children in celebration of these attacks. So --
BLITZER: It's a serious issue. It isn't new, though. At least parts of it, we have seen more recent attacks in Paris and Brussels, but just a culmination of a lot of testing, a lot probing by operatives. This has been going on, clearly, for a long time.
SHAIKH: Absolutely. And again, you have a pool of recruits to draw from. We hear a lot of people talking about the socioeconomic disparities. We want to talk about ideology, but we don't know how to position it. Ideology is a tool that's used. It drives people in some cases. In other cases, there's underlying criminality already and they can latch on to an extremist version to justify violence and being violent. So the pool of recruits is high. A few operatives alone will be able to do -- I mean, how many attackers were there in Paris? If we hear numbers like 400 have been sent back -- and it's really impossible to know such numbers -- but I have said this before, forget 400. What about just 10? So these are things that concern intelligence agencies now.
BLITZER: Finally, this notion of high risk neighborhoods, a so-called code of silence that develops over there, a code of silence, what can you tell us about that?
SHAIKH: Yeah, recently, after the attacks, while police were investigating, they used SMS texting to send out messages saying, hey, don't talk to the cop, fight them. And I mean, this is the level of their penetration. These are untraceable accounts. Those are avenues of further interdiction and tracking them back to see who's behind all this. But this is what happens in under-siege neighborhoods. This is why you don't engage in marginalization narratives, because you don't want to wait for it to get to the point where it's at now. Look, Europe has tolerated a lot of this for too long. People have openly been calling for these things. So now you're seeing the manifestations of this.
BLITZER: Mubin Shaikh, as usual, thank you very much for joining us, for your expertise.
That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."
For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.
For our viewers in North America, NEWSROOM, today with Pamela Brown, starts right now.
