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Senator Bernie Sanders' Voters May Not Back Hillary Clinton; New Wave of Terror Raids in Belgium; ISIS Leader's Ex-Wife Breaks Her Silence; CNN Raises A Glass To "Cheers"; Donald Trump's Excuse Me Record. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired March 31, 2016 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: ... in a state that is sometimes progressive friendly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a little prejudice about this. We have won six out of the seven last caucuses being held, and we seem to always do well when the voter turnout is high. We don't do so well when the voter turnout is low, so I myself am prejudice. I'd like to see a large voter turnout.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: The senator's campaign now hoping to make a big flash with his (INAUDIBLE) event that is supposed to feature Spike Lee, Harry Belafonte and Rosario Dawson. Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
One of Sanders' surrogate, Susan Sarandon, has ignited quite a fire storm. Why? Because she appeared to say if Sanders doesn't get the nod she would vote for Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: In an election about choices, right, I mean, I think a lot of people think to themselves well if it's Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, and I think Bernie Sanders, probably would think this --
SUSAN SARANDON, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: I think Bernie could encourage people because he doesn't have any ego in this thing. But I think a lot of people are sorry. I just can't bring myself to do that.
HAYES: How about you personally?
SARANDON: I don't know. I'm going to see what happens.
HAYES: Really? SARANDON: Really.
HAYERS: I can't believe as you're watching the (INAUDIBLE) if Donald Trump --
SARANDON: Well you know, some people feel Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately if he gets in and things will really, you know, explode.
HAYES: You're saying the Leninist model of --
(CROSSTALK)
SARANDON: Yes, yes, yes. Some people feel that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: For her part, Sarandon tweeted that she would never support Trump for any reason. Still, her comments highlight a potential challenge for a Democratic Party hoping to unite before the general election.
Charles Blow wrote about this in his "New York Times" column today titled "Bernie Or Bust Is Bonkers".
It reads in part -- quote -- "While there are meaningful differences between Clinton and Sanders, either would be a far better choice for president than any of the remaining Republican contenders. Assisting or allowing Trump's ascendance by electoral abstinence in order to force a revolution is heretical."
Charles Blow joins me now along with Peter Beinart who is a contributor to the "Atlantic". Welcome to both of you.
PETER BEINART, CONTRIBUTOR, THE ATLANTIC: Thanks.
COSTELLO: So Charles, what did Sarandon exactly mean do you think?
CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I have no clue what Sarandon meant. I mean, she you know -- what she said was that some people, you know, think that if Trump were elected that it would kind of bring the revolution immediately and there would be some sort of explosion. I don't know what either one of those things mean.
You know, how it could possibly -- and, you know, saying it kind of coyly, wistfully, even and smiling while you're saying it, I don't know what that means. Because if the revolution means that you bring so much pain to people that they are -- have no choice but to bend to your political perspectives, that's crazy to me, right?
COSTELLO: Peter --
BLOW: And there is no parallel between either of the Democratic candidates and what any of these Republican candidates are saying. So it just does not make sense to me. COSTELLO: Well, Peter, I would suppose that Sarandon is saying if Trump is elected, the electorate, the people will become so angry they'll rise up and there will be a revolution.
BEINART: Well, you know, perhaps, but we have no way of knowing that would be the case, and revolutions are very, very dangerous things.
I mean, Donald Trump represents a kind of form of American fascism that we're in the early part of twentieth century, people in places like Germany and Italy who (INAUDIBLE) on the far left (INAUDIBLE) who thought that fascism was good because it would lead to -- the fascists would then be overwhelmed by the Marxist, by the communist. It didn't turn out too well. This is way, way too serious a kind of thing to play around with in the kind of glib way that she talked about.
And the good news is that it's actually most Americans don't want Donald Trump to be president. His unfavorability ratings are at 67 percent. And he can be beaten conventionally by a candidate who in part thanks to Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton is running significantly to the left of even where Barack Obama ran in 2008. So she should see that as a sign of success.
COSTELLO: Well, we should mention that Hillary Clinton has high unfavorability numbers too, right?
(CROSSTALK)
BEINART: ... 50 percent, not 67 percent.
COSTELLO: OK. So I just want to get that out there in fairness.
So Charles, something else you noted in your column, a new "Wall Street Journal/NBC News" poll indicates one-third of Senator Bernie Sanders' supporters cannot see themselves voting for Hillary Clinton in November. Why is that?
BLOW: Well, I mean, part of this is just kind of middle of the battle hyperbole, right?
[10:35:03]
So people in the middle of the primaries are going to -- more people will say it then and fewer people will say it when you actually face -- when the rhetoric (ph) hits the road and you actually face with the idea of the alternative, right?
So it does boil down to a choice. You do -- it is whoever is up at that particular time and you have to make a kind of reasonable choice based on where you sit politically and ideologically about who would be better for what you believe in and also for the country, and I think that most people are reasonable at that point, and they will actually come around to that. But I do believe that's a really high number.
And this idea of, you know, Bernie or bust is actually not really smart. It is self-emulating. And what Bernie often talks about -- Bernie even says, you know, Hillary on her worst day is better than the remaining Republicans on their best day. He's smarter about it than some of the people who are answering that poll are being about it.
And you have to think about down ballot. Even if you think that, you know, that some revolution will come and people will be so upset because they will get so bad and they will come out and (INAUDIBLE) the vote think about down ballot. Because what ends up happening down ballot is that on a state level, I think something like 21 states have enacted even stricter voting restrictions. So it actually works against more people coming out to vote when you don't actually show up at the polls to vote.
COSTELLO: So obviously, Peter, Hillary Clinton is a little worried about this. Because you can see her adopting some of Bernie Sanders' language.
BEINART: Right. That's been a big story of this campaign from the very beginning -- I think one of the reasons Hillary Clinton is winning this election is that she got out in front of the Sanders revolution and starting moving to the left on issues like criminal justice and Wall Street back last summer in a way that the Republicans didn't do vis-a-vis Donald Trump.
But yes, Bernie Sanders has changed the terms of the debate. The Democratic Party is a more left leaning party than it was in the 1990s or even when it elected Barack Obama. And the Bernie Sanders people should see that as a sign of success and they should try to hold Clinton's feet to the fire if because I (ph) think likely she becomes the presidential nominee.
But I agree with Charles Blow, suggest that they're not going to support her because she doesn't display the purity that Bernie does -- would be totally self-defeating.
COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Charles Blow, Peter Beinart, thanks to both of you.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, he's the most wanted man in the world. Now the ex-wife of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is speaking out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:42:00]
COSTELLO: Police launching new wave of terror raids in Belgium linked to a foiled attack plot. According to one official the raid took place about an hour west of Brussels. No arrests were made but police are searching for evidence.
In the meantime, the lawyer for the Paris attacker, Salah Abdeslam, says his client now wants to cooperate with authorities. Abdeslam was captured earlier this month after triggering an international man hunt.
He's the leader of one of the most dangerous terrorist groups in the world, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Now his ex-wife is speaking out about what it's like to be married to the leader of ISIS.
Let's get right to CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson. He has more. Hi, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Hi, Carol.
In a word, kind of loveless. I mean, that's just how she describes their relationship. Her father, she says, and she comes from an Iraqi upper class conservative -- religiously conservative family, married her off to Baghdadi before he ever became the leader of ISIS, but she said she was sharing the family home with another one of his wives. Didn't feel loved. Decided to run away when she became pregnant.
The last time she saw him was in 2008. He became the head of ISIS in 2010. But what's interesting here is she says, she says, she had no idea that he was going to be a terrorist leader. She describes him as a good father. This is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAGA AL-DULAIMI, ABU BAKR AL-BAGHDADI'S EX-WIFE (through translator): I married a normal person, a university lecturer. It wasn't until afterwards that I found out he had changed his name and he was active, but I didn't notice that he was active at all.
He was great. He was the children's ideal father. The way he was with children, he was a teacher. You know how teachers are. He knew how to deal with children better than how to deal with the mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: She's remarried now. She lives in Lebanon. She wants to move to Europe. She's afraid Baghdadis is going to come and kidnap back their seven-year-old daughter.
But I think there's some interesting clues in all of this as well, Carol. There's something almost sort of game of thrones about her father. You know, her first husband was one of Saddam Hussein's body guards. Now, we don't know this for sure, but it seems likely in this setup that the father married her off first time around to the man in power. The father then potentially appears to have married her off to the next guy who is going to be considerably powerful.
And the father at this time, interestingly, left Iraq, went to Syria. He's in Damascus, but he's in jail in Damascus because of his connections with al Qaeda in Syria. One other small detail here as well that's really telling. She was in -- this ex-wife was in jail in Lebanon until a recent prisoner swap -- a prisoner swap of Lebanese soldiers for, guess what? Al Qaeda prisoners. You get a picture here that she's somehow valuable to al Qaeda as well.
COSTELLO: So why is she speaking out?
[10:45:00]
ROBERTSON: She's speaking out because, you know, she feels that she's the one that has lost out. She doesn't believe in, you know, all this ISIS and al Qaeda.
She thinks what happened in Brussels recently, for example, is terrorism. She doesn't want that life for her children. She wants to get them out of there. She wants education for her daughter, Baghdadi's daughter. She doesn't want any of that life that he espoused.
So right now she's out of jail where she was being held by the Lebanese until this prisoner deal happened recently. And now she wants the leave. She wants to put -- she says, put the Arab world behind her and go live in Europe because it's a better place.
COSTELLO: Nick Robertson -- fascinating. Nic Robertson reporting live for us this morning. Thank you. I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:49:41]
COSTELLO: All right. Let's go all the way back to the 1980s when my heart belonged to no one else but Nick Nolte.
(LAUGHTER)
He was cute back in the day. Come on. He was a leading man (INAUDIBLE) back in 1982's "48 Hours". Remember he starred with Eddie Murphy. That was an awesome movie.
[10:50:00]
Dreamy actors aside, the 80s were chocked full of pioneers, including in cable news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: On special segment tonight, the network news.
The first in a two-part series on the profound changes taking place in television news. Changes being brought about by business, competition, and technology.
JOHN HEILEMANN, MANAGING EDITOR, BLOOMBERG POLITICS: There are a variety of reasons why people who worked at the broadcast networks were freaked out in the 1980s. One of them was CNN and the rise of cable. Another was being taken over by foreign entities in corporate America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: It looks so antiquated, doesn't it?
My show team back in Atlanta is really pumped for this series, especially when it raises a glass to this cult classic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED DANSON, ACTOR: A new tavern opened at 112-1/2 Beacon Street.
JOHN RATZENBERGER, ACTOR: Wait, wait. A mailman never forgets an address, now. Why is 112-1/2 Beacon Street sending a message to my brain?
RHEA PERLMAN, ACTRESS: Probably because you're sitting on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: CNN's Michaela Pereira is bar side along -- oh my God it's Norm.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Me and Norm are having a drink. I've always wanted to buy this guy a drink.
Carol, can you believe where I am? I'm in Boston at the "Cheers" bar. It doesn't get any better than this. Everybody knows your name at this bar because of course that's the line from that hit show in the 80s. And look. Even Frasier has a spot at this bar. Remember Frasier on the show? Frasier looks a little different now, 2016 version.
If you do come to Boston you have to come here to check at all sorts of memorabilia, Carol. They've got all sorts of it on the walls. Some of the old pictures of the cast, Sam and Diane. Of course, long time favorites over here, you can see some behind the scenes pictures and some of the other Norm, Frasier et cetera. It's great.
But if you're like me, if you're like me, Carol, and you want to take a little something of "Cheers" back, well, you come into this spot. Carol, this is where you can find every little bit of "Cheers" memorabilia a girl could want in life. And I don't want you to think that I didn't find something for your boo. Do you think your hubby would like these? I'd buy them for him.
COSTELLO: Tim would love those. I could see him in them right now.
PEREIRA: You think Tim would like that? All right.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: He never watch, a single episodes of "Cheers". He's so out of the cultural norm.
PEREIRA: You're kidding me?
COSTELLO: No.
PEREIRA: Who is Tim? How did he not watch any episode? It was Thursday night at 9:00 p.m., Carol, on NBC.
Do you know that one thing that I didn't realize about this show? Because it ended up going on to be this gigantic hit. Do you know originally in the first season it almost got cancelled? Isn't that crazy?
COSTELLO: That is crazy. It turned out to be -- and it lasted for what, for 400 years?
PEREIRA: Cult classic. Absolutely. So now --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: OK. Michaela, I shared -- wait. No, you have to share your crush because I shared mine and it was embarrassingly Nick Nolte.
PEREIRA: OK. If you're embarrassed then I can embarrass myself. I had a mad crush on Theo Huxtable. Yes, Malcolm-Jamal Warner in "The Cosby Show" was my jam. When I say, it was my jam, I even wrote like my own little episode writing me into the show as his girlfriend. Like, oh, what kind of 15-year-old was I? You know what I mean?
COSTELLO: A stalker.
PEREIRA: That was my 80s crush.
So I'm going to go back to bar tending here at the bar.
COSTELLO: OK. Have a beer on me. Michaela, thanks so much.
"THE EIGHTIES" series kicks off tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN. I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:58:01]
COSTELLO: Donald Trump appears to have broken his own record for saying, excuse me. CNN's Jeanne Moos shows us how.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When a Trump interview gets intense, you have to excuse the Donald for excusing himself.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: ... five-year-old is he started it.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Excuse me. You would say that.
COOPER: You're running for president of the United States.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: He may sometimes sound like a little kid.
TRUMP: I didn't start it. I didn't start it.
COOPER: But, sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of a five-year-old. TRUMP: I didn't start it.
MOOS: But a five-year-old with manners.
GLAMOUR BEES: You said excuse me. You used good manners.
MOOS: And if this sounds familiar...
TRUMP: Well, excuse me.
MOOS: ... that's because we first focused on Trump's favorite verbal weapon last summer making this...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me --
MOOS: ... the sequel. We thought it deserved a sequel when "Washington Post" counted 18 excuse mes in just one hour of the CNN town hall.
COOPER: Whether or not you think it was batter or not --
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: One.
COOPER: You've suggested you might --
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. I didn't suggest.
MOOS: Two, three.
COOPER: So it doesn't concern you that initially...
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Four.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: Five, six.
TRUMP: We're supporting Japan.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. We're supporting --
MOOS: Actually, when you add them up, 18 was an undercount.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Twenty. Sort of makes Bernie Sanders lonely single interjection.
SANDERS: Excuse me, I'm talking.
MOOS: Seem like a poor excuse for an excuse me compared to Trump's 20. Maybe the Donald could add a little variety.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excusez-moi.
MOOS: Break down those cultural walls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Disculpe.
MOOS (on camera): Even when he interrupts himself, his own story, the Donald excuses himself.
TRUMP: When he said we had a big day, we won Utah, excuse me, I won Arizona.
MOOS (voice-over): Mr. Trump, you are excused.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos...
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: ... CNN...
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: ... New York.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. I didn't suggest.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[11:00:04]
COSTELLO: Thanks for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.
"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.
