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Frantic Rescue Effort Continues After Dark; Trump Under Fire Over Abortion Comments; Ex-wife Of ISIS Leader: He Was "Normal Family Man"; Saga Al-Dulaimi Has Daughter With ISIS Leader; Brazil Sports Minister Resigns Amid Political Crisis; Court: Zuma Defied Constitution Over Home Upgrade; U.S. Trying To Force Apple, Google To Unlock Phones; Brussels Terror Attack Investigation Latest; President Obama Hosts Nuclear Summit. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired March 31, 2016 - 15:00:00   ET




HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is THE


Well, it is still a frantic rescue effort in Calcutta, India, and it's dark. The collapse of a bridge there has killed at least 22 people, dozens

more are missing.

We now have video of the very moment it came down. You can see the cars driving across the busy road and then disaster strikes. The overpass had

already been under construction for five years when it collapsed.

Our correspondent, Sumnima Udas, has arrived at the scene, at the collapse in Calcutta, and she joins me now live. Sumnima, tell us what's going on

around you.

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, I'm standing at the exact location where the overpass collapsed. Look at the scene over here. You can see an

auto just underneath metal and concrete as well.

Over there, rescue workers are drilling right now trying to drill through what a huge slab of concrete. They believe there could still be survivors.

They don't know right now, but they are frantically digging through all of this using heavy machinery, using cranes, using diggers, using cutters.

They've been here for the past 12 hours. We have the Army here. You've got the national disaster relief teams here. You've got the Calcutta

police and also the border security force.

Hundreds of officials working around the clock trying to see if they can pull out any survivors and pull out several dead bodies while we've been

standing here.

This was 100 meter, roughly about 100 meter shot of an overpass that was still under construction, but that was a part of a very long overpass that

roughly about two kilometers or one mile long overpass.

A hundred meter chunk fell down here in this very crowded area. Locals say is normally under this overpass would be a lot of homeless people, a lot of

street venders here as well selling all kinds of things, fruits, vegetables, (inaudible) as well.

This is one of the main trading hubs in Calcutta, very old part of town, a wholesale market as well. But officials right now say just because, you

know, it's impossible to tell how many people could have been underneath that overpass when it collapsed. They have no way of knowing how many

people could still be trapped underneath -- Hala.

GORANI: And, Sumnima, have they heard anyone? Has they established contact with anyone who might be trapped under all of that?

UDAS: Not at the moment from what we're hearing from most of the officials here. They are using cameras to sort on these long areas putting the

cameras inside the rubble through the various cars that are here as well trying to see if they can find any survivors. So far, no survivors yet.

They have pulled out dead bodies and cars and at least two very mangled cars, and I don't know if you can see this, Hala, but right there, you can

see the overpass that basically fell. This has been under construction for the past five to seven years.

And you've been seeing the video as well of how this collapse and eyewitnesses telling us it's just literally a few seconds and there was

just very loud noise. There were so many people here.

But, again, officials having a very difficult time to figure out how many people could still be trapped underneath but they're doing what they can --


GORANI: OK, Sumnima Udas is live in Calcutta, India, dramatic scenes there. Rescuers doing everything they can, but as Sumnima was saying,

unfortunately, they are so far only dead bodies have been pulled out from under the rubble. Thank you, Sumnima.

[15:05:04]Now, let's turn our attention to the United States and politics. Once again, Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump is under fire. This time

from all sides after making some pretty controversial comments about abortion and then, backtracking and changing his position.

Trump initially told the American network, MSNBC, that if abortions are banned, women who get abortions should be punished. That they should be

subjected to, quote, "some form of punishment."

Then just hours later, he said that doctors performing illegal abortions should face punishment, not women. So reaction from his main rival on the

Republican side, Ted Cruz, this is what he had to say.


SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That comment was wrong and it really, it's the latest demonstration of how little Donald has thought

about any of the serious issues facing this country.


GORANI: All right. But Trump's comments are not turning everyone off, most of his supporters appear to be sticking by the frontrunner.

Let's bring in one of those supporters, Terra Grant, she's backing Trump for president. She joins me now live from Nashville, Tennessee.

So when you heard that comment by Donald Trump and answer to the question by Chris Matthews, women should be subjected to some form of punishment if

they have an abortion if it becomes illegal. As a woman, your reaction to that?

TERRA GRANT, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think incredibly so, I heard the word if abortion is illegal, should there be some kind of punishment. And

Donald Trump answered the question, as well as he could.

And Chris Matthews continued to go after him, continued to ask him, Donald Trump would go into an answer the question, Chris would cut him off yet


And so, anyone knows, if you abuse drugs in in the United States, if you commit murder in the United States, if you burglarize someone, it's a

matter of breaking the law, and getting punished for it. And if abortion became illegal --

GORANI: But there's so many follow-ups I have on that. You're likening getting an abortion if it's ever banned to committing murder or dealing


And also why is the woman, why is the woman punished then in the very remote kind of like scenario that abortion then ends up being banned

completely? Why not the practitioner, he did go back and said I actually meant the doctor.

GRANT: No, I agree, wholeheartedly that the practitioner or the doctor or whoever performs the abortion should be punished, absolutely, as well as

the woman. The woman chose to have the abortion and for pro-life person, she is committing murder.

So, I mean, because you know, birth in life begins at conception, and so a lot of people would argue that she is committing murder if she's getting an


However, if it's illegal in the United States, yes, if it becomes illegal, it's a very hypothetical question. So if it's illegal, then she will be

breaking the law by getting an abortion and there should be some type of punishment. Absolutely

GORANI: All right. Well, many people would disagree, John Kasich one of the Republican rivals of the Donald Trump in the race for the nomination

had this to say about Donald Trump's comments on abortion, listen.


JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It appears as though when he does these events and people press him, he becomes unmoored. And then has to

spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to correct all the mistakes that he made. And I have to tell you, that as commander-in-chief, and

leader of the free world, you don't get do overs. You need to get it right the first time.


GORANI: So Terra, you heard what John Kasich had to say about Donald Trump, three positions in three hours, he's all over the place. If he's

ever commander-in-chief, this is not how you're supposed to act. What's your reaction to that?

GRANT: Now, I even said this morning when I was being asked about it on Facebook, of course, you know, I get hit a lot on social media, what do you

think about this, that, and of course, I mean, for me, I don't think necessarily that Donald Trump should have backtracked on necessarily what

he said.

He spoke his mind. He said, if abortion is illegal in the United States, and a woman gets an abortion, this should be some time of punishment

because she is committing a crime, if it's illegal.

However, the backtracking and all of that, me personally, as a Trump supporter, I think he did himself an injustice. Say, let your yes be

yeses, nos be nos and stand on what you're saying. Stand on your principle.

I am all for if you change your mind, if you grow as a person, evolve as a person, go ahead and let that be your yes or let that be your no.

However, right now, I really did, last night when I started hearing that he sent out this statement and that statement, I thought, why is my candidate

doing that?

[15:10:05]GORANI: Is that going to make you hesitant. Let me ask you about -- I'm going show our viewers a poll of women overall in the United

States and their opinion of Donald Trump.

Conducted before these comments that were made to Chris Matthews, 74 percent of women in the United States, three quarters, have an unfavorable

opinion of Donald Trump, 24 percent have a favorable opinion.

Are 74 percent of American women so completely misguided that they don't just don't get that Donald Trump is pro-woman that he's not offensive to

women? Are they so misguided in your opinion?

GRANT: I would never say that about women as a whole. I think women, we are a beautiful creature. I think we are very, very smart and very

intellectual. However, I do believe that the liberal media as a whole has gone after Donald Trump and they have taken small sound bites of things

that he has interactions with women.

That he has had and they have blown that up and they have expounded on that and they have made him look very misogynistic or sexist or racist, they put

him in the categories and people buy into that.

And women as a whole, we're very warm creatures. We love, we want people to love with us, and I really don't think the media is portraying Donald

Trump as a warm person. So that really does, at some point, it does turn women off.

And I really do wish that Donald Trump would sit down and have one of those really in-depth conversations like he had with -- he had with a journalist,

I think it was Sean Hannity that he sat down with.

And I thought wow, just to see him talk about his brother that passed, his mother and father, it was such an eye opening experience for me because I

thought, now that's the Donald Trump that women would really fall in love with.

GORANI: All right, Terra Grant, I want to thank you for your time in Nashville, Tennessee, a Trump supporter there. Not turned off apparently

by some of those comments made by Donald Trump. Thanks very much for your time this evening.

Now moving back to Europe, a Belgian court has cleared the way for Paris terror suspect, Salah Abdeslam, to be extradited to France. It is still

unclear when that will happen.

Abdeslam is one of the ten men accused of carrying out the November attacks that killed 130 people. He was arrested in Brussels this month near his

childhood home. Police believe he may be linked to the attackers in that city's recent bombings as well.

All right. Well, speaking of this terrorist group, ISIS, not who it inspires in Europe, but more the central character, the leader of the

group. Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, known as the leader of the world's most brutal terrorist organization.

However, an ex-wife of the ISIS chief says when they were married, at least, he was a, quote, "normal family man." (Inaudible) spoke to the

"Swedish Daily" expressing about their brief time together.

She says she left him after several months of marriage while she was pregnant with their daughter and was stunned, stunned, she says, to find

out years later what he had become.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He was great. He was a children's ideal father. The way he was with children, he was a teacher.

You know how teachers are. He knew how to deal with children. Better than how to deal with the mother. I married a normal person, a university


It wasn't until afterwards that I found out he had changed his name and he was active. I didn't notice that he was active at all.


GORANI: Well, I'm joined now by international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. Hello, Nic, thanks for being -- we heard a little bit, a

snippet of what she said during that interview, what else -- what were the other highlights here?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, Saga Al-Dulaimi has found her and she's living in secret in Lebanon. She was in jail in in

Lebanon. She was released by Lebanese authorities as a prisoner swap between al Qaeda al Nusra in Syria and Lebanese soldiers were exchanged.

But somehow she was also part of that prisoner swap. And I think as we look at her life, we get a better picture of it. She was from a relatively

wealthy Iraqi family, relatively conservative family.

Her father, after her first husband died, her father married her off to this man she thought was a teacher and a lovely husband, but the man she

was married to before was one of Saddam Hussein's body guards.

So, and in all likelihood, married her off to him as well previously. By the time she was married to him, there's every likelihood, we don't know,

and she doesn't go into detail.

There's a strong responsibility that he was already fighting against -- we don't have per se the specific dates, but then if you look at what happens

to her father, he leaves Iraq goes to Syria and lives in Damascus and is now in jail for being connected to Al Nusra.

[15:15:11]You know the questions that are raised here, how come she gets released as part of an al Qaeda prisoner swap deal? She's clearly a value

to them in some way. Otherwise, she wouldn't be released and here's her father, whose been essentially marrying her off --

GORANI: But should we believe what she's saying. Here she is, talking to -- first of all, why is it in her interest at all to speak to the press at

this stage?

ROBERTSON: Well, she is saying that she wants to leave -- number one, she's afraid that her former husband will come after her and take away

their 7-year-old daughter. And it was when she became pregnant with that daughter that she decided to run away and leave him, despite that she was

such a wonderful father type figure.

But she decided she wasn't in love with him and she was going to leave him at that point. What she's saying now is she wants to take the family.

She's got a new husband, she's got three other children.

She wants the family to leave the Middle East and go and live in Europe. She wants them to have an education. She doesn't --

GORANI: Why did she leave this Baghdadi, this was in 2009 if he was such a wonderful family man?

ROBERTSON: It is before he becomes the head of --

GORANI: But he was still active in the insurgency clearly at that point.

ROBERTSON: Clearly, and at that time the insurgency was an al Qaeda-based insurgency as well. We see her father apparently has tied with al Qaeda.

She still has value to al Qaeda. And there were a lot of questions here about -- about her narrative.

She says she wants to move to Europe. This is why she's speaking out, but, what's the (inaudible) motive? Perhaps she doesn't feel safe. She says

she's worried he's going to come after the family and take her daughter away.

GORANI: I'm not sure what European country would be happy to welcome her unless they thought she had some sort of intelligence?

ROBERTSON: You know, she was asked about her opinions on the Brussels attack and she said it's terrorism, I hate terrorism, I dislike it, but you

know, there were just fundamental questions about her narrative. I mean, by the time she married him, Baghdadi had already been in U.S. custody for

almost a year, then released --

GORANI: In 2006.

ROBERTSON: In 2004, yes, 2004.

GORANI: OK, I'm being yelled at. We have to leave it there. Fascinating conversation. All right, thank you, Nic Robertson as always. Still to

come tonight, a bad week for Brazil's president, Dilma Rouseff. Gets even worse, we'll explain why.

And it was a century's old law that the FBI was using to compel Apple to unlock the iPhone of the San Bernardino gunman. We now know they were

using that same law in cases of at least 20 states. Details coming up.

And the award winning architect, (inaudible), famed for many designs including London's Aquatics Center has died. We will had much more on that

story later in the program.



GORANI: Well, a bad week for the Brazilian president, Dilma Rousseff just got a whole lot worse with just over four months to the Olympic Games in

Rio de Janeiro. Her sports minister has resigned.

But that is just the tip of a rather large political iceberg, already this week the country's largest party pulled out of her coalition as calls grow

for her impeachment over a corruption scandal.

Let's get the latest, Shasta Darlington is live in the capital, Brasilia. I've got to ask you, Shasta, people are asking, how is Dilma Rousseff still

holding on at this point?

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, she's a very tough lady. She's come out on numerous occasions says she is not going to give up.

She's going to fight this to the very end. That could mean months and months of political wrangling.

She's have to defend herself and in the Senate against an impeachment proceeding if it comes to that. Right now what we're seeing is many of her

supporters, supporters of the Workers Party and of her predecessor, former president, President Lula Da Silva gathering across the capital here in

Brasilia and a number of other cities in the country to show their support.

To show that even though coalition parties are dropping out, the sports minister has stepped down, that there is still thousands and thousands of

Brazilians willing to take to the street to show their support for a party that they feel has done so much for the country's poorest.

We've just talked to some people who told us, listen, we are against corruption, but first of all, all politicians feel and second of all,

nobody has done for the lowest classes here what the Workers Party has done and we're not going to give up on them. That's what they are trying to

show today.

We're standing in front of the Congress where they're debating whether to open and really go ahead with this impeachment proceedings. We're going to

see a very large concentration here a little later today with again these government supporters saying they will fight this tooth and nail.

That Dilma Rousseff has not been implicated in any corruption scandals that they're trying to nail her on really a technicality for allegedly breaking

budgetary laws and won't stand for it, Hala.

Of course, we've seen other protests of anti-government groups, this could be a back and forth for months to come -- Hala.

GORANI: OK. Shasta Darlington in Brasilia, we'll see if it last months indeed or if Dilma Rouseff is impeached before then.

Speaking of corruption scandals, South African President Jacob Zuma is also under pressure to resign over a series of scandals there. Today he was

dealt a pretty significant blow.

The country's highest court ruled that he violated the constitution when he used millions of dollars in state money for questionable upgrades on his

private home. CNN's David McKenzie has more.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The final judgment was uncompromising, damning of embattled president, Jacob Zuma.

MOGAENG MOGAENG, CHIEF JUSTICE, SOUTH AFRICA: The president has failed to uphold, defend, and respect the constitution as the supreme law of the


MCKENZIE: Calling this a profound lesson for South Africa's young democracy, the unanimous ruling said that both scandal ridden Zuma and the

country's parliament acted illegally saying they ignored order of the government's own anticorruption watchdog for Zuma to pay back a portion of

the $15 million in state funds he spent on his private homestead in the area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May we ask the president as to when he is going to pay in terms of what the public protector has said.

MCKENZIE: For years, payback the money was the opposition rallying cry. The results in parliament often ugly and embarrassment to ordinary South


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you think I should pay back the money? Don't even know how much.

MCKENZIE: And throughout, Zuma ignored the calls. A parliamentary and police inquiry found that he had done nothing wrong. That the chicken

coop, amphitheater, even the swimming pool additions had a security purpose.

But opposition leaders have long said that Zuma has ridden rough shot of the South Africa's constitution. Now the courts back them up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president as we've maintained acted outside the prescribed of law and as a great opportunity now, we begin the process of

impeaching the president.


MCKENZIE: Both the president and ruling ANC say they will respect the judgment, but they need more time to reflect. For any impeachment vote to

succeed, the party will need to turn on its president. David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg, South Africa.

GORANI: Quick peek at what's going on, on Wall Street, the Dow Jones right now is slightly lower losing 12 points at 17,704. Here's a look at the

other major indices, the Nasdaq and the S&P a little bit of a mixed picture there. Not much in the way of movements. And European markets, it was a

negative picture across the board. Nothing too dramatic, however.

[15:25:04]Just days ago, the FBI confirmed it was able to hack into the iPhone of San Bernardino gunman, Siad Farook, without the help from Apple,

which it had requested.

Following that, the bureau has received other request for assistance and on Wednesday, it reported they agreed to help an Arkansas prosecutor unlock

two Apple devices, an iPhone 6 and iPad they say could hold evidence in a murder case.

It has also been revealed that U.S. federal agents are quietly trying to apply the same law that they used in the San Bernardino case against Apple

to try to force Apple and Google to unlock phones in at least 20 states. That law dates back from the 1700s.

For more, Samuel Burke joins me now from New York with more. Tell us how they are able, or at least trying, to use an 18th Century lock to try to

force tech companies to unlock devices.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN MONEY BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They're definitely trying and trying in very many states according to the American Civil Liberties

Group here in the United States. The American Civil Electrics Union rather, they've been pouring over federal court records.

And the math you're seeing, blue represents the places, states where Apple is being compelled them to open up phones. Red represents states where

Google is trying to be compelled to open up phones, that's of course the state of Oregon there over and red purple represents states where both

Apple and Google are trying to be compelled to open up these phones.

So, so many times we heard the argument was that this was just about this one phone in San Bernardino, but what we're seeing it's really in so many

different states, in 63 different instances.

We've been speaking with Google to try and figure out what they have been compelled or at least the government is trying to compel to open and this

is what Google told us in a statement, Hala.

A spokesperson saying the following, "We carefully scrutinize subpoenas and court orders to make sure they meet both the letter and spirit of the law.

However, we've never received an All Writs Act order like the one Apple recently fought that demands we build new tools that actively compromised

our product security, we would strongly object to such, to such an order."

Basically what we believe that means is that while Google may have had requests and Google tells us that many times they reach routinely comply

with law enforcement, they may have been able to hand over pass words for instance because their Android devices may not have the level of encryption

that Apple devices have.

So they may not have had to build new code the way that Apple was going to be compelled to possibly because the security might be lower on a lot of

these Android phones so they're handing over something, but maybe not to the degree that Apple may have had to hand over a code.

GORANI: And meantime, are we learning more about the third party that helped the U.S. government get into the San Bernardino iPhone?

BURKE: We are not sure what company it was, but we do know for sure that it was some type of private company. The United States state government

didn't say we're relying on our own technology. They've said we are relying on an outside party.

And that concerns a lot of people because if it is a private company, they may not just sell the code to the United States, it could be other

governments. There are companies around the world like this.

(Inaudible), for instance, has been go-to company that has FBI has used. This is an Israeli technology company that boasts that it is a group that

helps governments all around the world. It's owned by a Japanese corporation.

And this case where a lot of people have concerns if they're selling it to the United States, are they selling code to other governments, maybe more

authoritarian governments. These are the concerns groups like the ACLU have.

GORANI: All right. It's the digital battleground of the 21st Century, thanks very much. Samuel Burke in New York.

A lot more to come, a powerful act that hits the campaign trail for Hillary Clinton and her husband, former President Bill. We'll see how the

Democratic race for the White House is heating up in New York. A lot of delegates at stake there.

World leaders take on the threat of nuclear terrorism. We'll take you to Washington. There's a nuclear security summit there, an important event

for Barack Obama. We will be right back.



GORANI: Welcome back, our top stories rescuers are searching for the missing in the dark of night in the Indian city of Calcutta.


GORANI: The collapse of an overpass there has killed at least 22 people. These are some of the dramatic scenes coming to us to from India. Dozens

more are missing. The bridge had been under construction for five years when it gave way.


GORANI: Also among our top stories, Brazil's sports minister has resigned just months before the country hosts the summer politics.


GORANI: The resignation of George Hilton is the latest setback for President Dilma Rousseff. She is facing growing calls for impeachment and

lost backing for the biggest political party.


GORANI: An ex-wife of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is speaking out about their brief time together as husband and wife.


GORANI: She says that when they were married back in 2008, he was a, "normal family man." Saja al-Dulaimi told the Swedish Daily Express that

she left him after a few months while pregnant with their daughter.


GORANI: This just in to CNN, a shooting at a Greyhound bus station in Richmond, Virginia, has sent at least three people to the hospital.


GORANI: This is just coming into us. Two of the victims are Virginia State police troopers. The suspected gunman is in custody so the situation is

over. It's not clear how severely injured the victims are. This are some live images coming to us from Richmond. We will have more details as they

become available.


GORANI: Returning now to the race for the White House. CNN has learned that Hillary Clinton's campaign is shifting strategy after facing a tougher than

expected challenge in her adopted home state.


GORANI: The Democratic front runner is investing more time and more money in New York than anticipated ahead of its crucial April 19th primary. Rival

Bernie Sanders, a Brooklyn native, is hoping to continue riding a wave of momentum from recent contests. But a new Quinnipiac University poll finds

he is still trailing Clinton in New York by 12 percentage points, 54-42.


GORANI: Hillary Clinton held a campaign event at a state university in Purchase, New York, our senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar joins

me from there now. Purchase is about an hour north of New York City. So, is there any concern in the Hillary Clinton campaign that New York might be

tougher than they first anticipated because of the Bernie Sanders challenge here?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there is some concern, Hala. I think there's also a confidence that they'll be able to

hold onto it. When you look at the latest Quinnipiac University poll, Hillary Clinton is about 12 points ahead here in New York.


KEILAR: But at the same time, the voters here do not go to the polls for almost another three weeks. And in that time, we're expecting that Bernie

Sanders will have some contests that look very good for him. So one of the concerns is that for instance, on Tuesday, when we see Wisconsin voters go

to the polls and certainly he's in good shape there in Wisconsin, if he pulls out a win there then maybe that buoys his chances of doing better in

New York and then that 12-point gap could be something that becomes a slimmer margin.


KEILAR: This is Hillary Clinton's adopted home state. She certainly wants to win here in New York, that's for symbolic reasons. It also comes down to

math though. There are 247 delegates, that is a lot at stake here in the state of New York. Bernie Sanders is down at this point over 200 pledged

delegates. So it comes down to math. He needs to win. He needs to win big. And this is a big place for him to try and have a go at it. Also those

delegates are awarded proportionately so even if he just does really well here, he's certainly going to get some of them, it's not winner take all



GORANI: Right. Not winner take all which means that really every vote counts as its proportional as you mention, so an important contest. Let me

ask you a little bit about the reaction of Hillary Clinton to some of those statements that Donald Trump made on abortion.

What is the Clinton strategy right now? Is the focus more on Bernie Sanders as we approach New York and Wisconsin or is she shifting more toward Donald

Trump right now?

KEILAR: She's fighting really a two-front war at this point with Bernie Sanders and with Donald Trump. And we really saw that here today just a

short time ago here at the state university, New York here in Purchase.

Hillary Clinton seized on those comments, Hala, by Donald Trump.


KEILAR: And this is something that her - this is something that her campaign sees as an opportunity to motivate female voters who Donald Trump

struggles with, and obviously she would be if she were to win, she'd be the first female President. So they're trying to I think draw some battle lines

there with Donald Trump. And she's saying, essentially that what he say is reprehensible. She's making an issue out of it. Interesting though today

here, she said that Bernie Sanders while he said that Donald Trump's remarks are shameful, he also said they're a distraction from the real

issues that Americans want to discuss. And she said basically, this is not a distraction, I think this is a real issue. So she's even using this to

try to paint Bernie Sanders as out of touch with women. And really I think kind of grab that space and grab that support from women and hold it just

for herself and not for Bernie Sanders and certainly not for Donald Trump.


GORANI: All right. Fighting on two fronts there, Brianna Keilar in Purchase, New York, thanks very much.

Speaking of Donald Trump, he is saying, he said this minutes ago that he had a "very nice meeting today with the chairman of the Republican Party."


GORANI: The GOP Presidential front runner sent out this tweet saying, "looking forward to bringing the party together, and it will happen." Trump

left the Republican national committee headquarters just a short time ago. He's been in a very public feud with the republican establishment for

months. Those are the images coming to us from Washington after that meeting that Donald Trump had with the Republican Party leadership. And

just days ago, he also abandoned a pledge to support the party's eventual nominee at the CNN town hall. The two other candidates still running for

the nomination by the way, also drop that pledge.


GORANI: So no love lost there between the remaining candidates.

Now leaders from dozens of nations are gathered in Washington for a summit devoted to securing nuclear material around the world. The American

President Barack Obama met with the Japanese and South Korean leaders to talk about one of the biggest threats in their region, North Korea.


BARAK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: Because of the topic of this summer, Nuclear Security Summit, it's not surprising that of the topics most on our minds

is the issue of North Korea and we are united in our efforts to deter and defend against North Korean provocations.


GORANI: Last week's attacks in Brussels and how to deal with ISIS have become the major talking point at that summit as well. Elise Labott takes a

look the potential nuclear threat posed by rogue groups and terrorist organizations.


ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Raiding the home of a suspected planner of last November's Paris attacks, Belgian authorities found surveillance video

of a top Belgian nuclear scientist. That suspect, part of the same ISIS cell accused of last week's attacks in Belgium. The shocking discovery

turned the heads of counterterrorism experts who fear Belgium, with several previous nuclear breaches, could be at risk for terrorists to obtain raid

logical materials for a so-called dirty bomb.

JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, PRESIDENT, PLOUGHSHARES FUND: A small dirty bomb would not just cause panic, not just cause people to flee the city, it would

contaminate tens of square blocks for years.

LABOTT: Those fears now top the agenda at this week's nuclear summit. President Obama first convened the gathering of world leaders six years ago

issuing a call to action.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: It is increasingly clear that the danger of nuclear terrorism is one of the greatest threats to global security.

LABOTT: Since that warning, 12 countries have eliminated nuclear material, but tons of unsecured weapons grade material remains in 25 countries. And

ISIS barely on the radar at the time of the first summit is now a global network, already using chemical weapons on the battlefield.


LABOTT: A recent Harvard University report warned that despite modest improvements in nuclear security, the capability of groups, especially

ISIS, has "grown dramatically" suggesting overall, the risk of nuclear terrorism may have increased.

MATTHEW BUNN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY'S BELFER CENTER: We don't know what the terrorist threat is going to look like two years, five years, ten years now

from, and to me, that's even stronger reason to lock down all the ingredients of a potential nuclear recipe.


GORANI: Well, let's cross live to Washington now, White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski is at the summit. And Michelle, we've been hearing from

the President about the Brussels terrorist - the attackers in Brussels at the airport in that metro sub, what has he been saying about that at this

nuclear summit?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and also, I mean since we're talking about the security of nuclear materials and then that

information comes out of Brussels that some of the plotters may have been doing surveillance on this nuclear scientist, could that have been part of

a plot to attack a nuclear facility or get that nuclear material? That question was raised, how significant a threat what does the White House see

that, what do they think of this? And they seem to be down playing it.


KOSINSKI: I mean they said look, it reinforces the belief that ISIS wants to get its hands on nuclear or radiological material, Al Qaeda had the same

goals. But the White House says in a place like Belgium, they have substantial security around nuclear facilities. They don't really see that

kind of allegation of plotting as a significant risk.

But long-term, I mean, that's a big focus of this summit. How do you keep that kind of material out of the hands of terrorists? I mean, when you talk

to experts who are kind of looking in on this and seeing what kind of progress has been made and could be made.


KOSINSKI: They do say that here, you know these are governments talking mainly about highly enriched uranium and increasing security around the big

facilities. And that's, you know, fairly easy to do when you have high level of government officials setting new restrictions. But what's really

sort of the blurry line on this is the radiological material in the civilian sector.


KOSINSKI: I mean this is used in a widespread way by industry, by the medical field, even academia has some of this material. And even though

when you're talking about material to build a bomb, I mean, only less than two dozen countries have that highly regulated. But when you're talking

about radiological material that could build a dirty bomb and disperse some of this in like a downtown city area, about 130 countries use that on

thousands of sites, especially hospitals that use it in the treatment of cancer, and in some countries, there's very little security around that.


KOSINSKI: So experts are saying, you know, that's kind of the real risk that's out there that ISIS could get its hands on much quicker. There needs

to be a lot more security in that area, Hala.

GORANI: All right. Michelle Kosinski, also perhaps one of the issues is Vladimir Putin is not present at this particular summit so we'll see if

that impacts any big decision making there. Thanks very much.

Still ahead, Donald Trump ignited a fire storm in the U.S. with his comments on abortion.


GORANI: But his foreign policy platform is raising many eyebrows abroad. Next I'll speak to a former British Ambassador to the U.S. about Trump's

controversial campaign.

Also ahead, the world of architecture loses one of its biggest names. We'll have details on the sudden death of Zaha Hadid.




GORANI: International reaction to Donald Trump's presidential bid has evolved over time. Some newspapers have viewed his campaign with humor,

others with a whole lot of confusion, and still others as the possibility of him becoming the nominee has become more and more real, others have

viewed it with concern.


GORANI: Take a look an editorial in the Guardian was titled, "It's not the 1930s, but Donald Trump should scare us all the same." His daily telegraph

editorial did not mince words. The headline reads "Donald Trump is the Mussolini of America with double the vulgarity." And an opinion piece in

the International New York Times called the candidate's foreign policy "Trump's new world disorder."


GORANI: So how is Trump's candidacy being viewed internationally? Well that was a bit of a flavor for you there. And what geopolitical impact would a

President Trump really have? My next guess is a former British Ambassador to the United States, Christopher Meyer, thanks for being with us.


GORANI: So you were Ambassador in the U.S. late '90s, early 2000s.

MEYER: 1997 to 2003 a bit of Clinton a bit of Bush.

GORANI: A bit of Clinton and a bit of Bush, two very different presidencies. So you were able to see some sort of shift in American


MEYER: Yes, but not an awful lot. I mean foreign policy traditionally has not been an area of great partisan conflict, domestic policy. So for me,

apart from the Iraq war, which is a big exception, it was mainstream American foreign policy, be it Clinton or even Bush.

GORANI: What do you make of the Trump phenomenon as you've been observing it from abroad.

MEYER: Well, if you had asked me that question while I was still Ambassador in the United States, if that wouild have been possible I would have said,

my god --

GORANI: He was already a celebrity back then.

MEYER: Yes, he was a celebrity but not for his political skills, it was for a host of other stuff.


MEYER: But when I returned to the United States on private visit in 2010, for the midterm when the Tea Party was rising when I look back at the tea

party and the anger and nativism and protectionism which I ran into in meeting Tea Party people, the Trump phenomenon becomes more explicable.

GORANI: And how so? Could you expand on that?

MEYER: Well I think, if you analyze it, what Trump seems to be representing is all that is angry and dispossessed and furious about the way the United

States is governed and the way in which the United States is required to behave in the outside world. So they're anti-free trade, I mean there's

always been protectionism in the United States.

GORANI: How do you explain that? Because I mean mainly it's white Americans without a college education, that's a big chunk, the biggest percentage of

his supporters of the United States. What is it about that particular group of Americans that explains that they're so angry that they'll vote for him?

MEYER: Well I think there are three things. And you have to take them in chronological order. When I first came to the U.S. to work and live in

1988, people already starting to talk about reaganomics creating a situation in which the current generation could not guarantee that the next

generation would be better off than the current one.


MEYER: And admittedly that came from the left, but it was fairly widespread. So that is in there, we cannot guarantee that our kids are

going to live better than we do. And then you have everything around 2008 and the banking crisis and all of the layoffs that flowed from that and the

recession. That's another layer of anger on top of that. And then one has to say, I think going back to what you said about white people, uneducated

white people is that the administration of an African American President has added another layer of sourness in all of this. Put all this together

and you've got a real cocktail of hostility.

GORANI: Yes, but there's - there's another factor, isn't there? These white Americans without a college education. Most of them have lost over the last

several decades their jobs in manufacturing and industry. All of those jobs they see them go abroad. This man, Donald Trump, is saying I'm a

businessman. I'm going to negotiate for you, I'm going to make this country great again. You're going to have jobs again. I'm going to not let China

you know take advantage of us, I'm not going to let those countries make us pay more than we should pay, and these organizations like NATO. So does

that also explain it?

MEYER: Well it does to a certain extent. This is -- you find the origins of this for example in NAFTA. When the NAFTA, North American Free Trade

Agreement was signed, a lot of people were worried about jobs going either to Canada or down to Mexico and to a degree that happened.

GORANI: It did happen.


MEYER: This is globalization to the power of ten.

And so people - a lot of what this is about is Trump is offering to wind back the clock. To put genies back in bottles but of course genies can't be

put back in bottles.

GORANI: But he has new proposals, Ambassador. I would stop buying Saudi oil if they don't commit ground troops to ISIS. We should allow -- I would

consider allowing South Korea and Japan to possess a nuclear arsenal so that they are a deterrent power in the region. NATO is obsolete, it should

be completely disintegrated and rebuilt and we should stop paying as much money into it. So this is someone who is also saying I'm going to

completely just destroy all these organizations and the world order that has been - that has been the reality of the world for years, decades.

MEYER: The very basis of western foreign policy in the United States, NATIO countries, the United Kingdom is a rules based international order. Which

has been built up painfully and with great difficulty since the Second World War. But what Trump wants to do is do an ISIS on all of this and blow

the whole bloody lot up as if it were Palmyra. And you know if he does win the nomination and then win the presidency, I'm not quite sure how we're

going to be able to create transatlantic foreign policy.

GORANI: Last question, you speak to many I'm sure of your colleagues who are ambassadors, maybe former, maybe current, other very high level of

politicians across the world, what are they making of a potential Trump residency?

MEYER: Well they're horrified and in their heart of hearts they hope it'll never happen. But what I - what I say to people is, this is somebody who's

got to be taken deadly serious. He could do it.

GORANI: He wasn't always. He was a joke at first.

MEYER: Well he was but in reality, he's never been a joker. He may behave like a joker, but this is a serious guy who is wildly misguided. So we've

got to hope for the best, which is that he doesn't get the nomination or the presidency, and prepare for the worst.

GORANI: Christopher Meyer, thanks very much for joining us, we really appreciate your time. The former U.K. Ambassador to the United States

thanks for being with us.

MEYER: Thank you.

GORANI: Don't forget, check out interviews and the latest news on our Facebook page,, we will be right back, don't go



GORANI: Football star Lionel Messi obviously meant well when he donated a pair of shoes to a charity auction while on Egyptian television, but he has

managed to provoke outrage in the country.


GORANI: Unfortunately for Messi some in Arab culture view shoes a as symbol of disrespect or insult. That's because they touch the ground. You might

remember that infamous shoe throwing incident involving President George Bush in 2008. An Egyptian lawmaker called Messi's gesture humiliating

before offering his own shoes to Messi's home country of Argentina.


GORANI: OK. All right. Now in Australia, a professional surfer is in a serious condition in hospital after being bitten by a shark off the

country's eastern coast. He was surfing in Kiama, south of Sydney when the shark struck taking part of his leg. CNN's Jonathan Mann has that.


JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quick thinking and a fast paddle into these waters have saved a pro-surfer from a grizzly death. 22-year-old

Brett Connellan was mauled by a shark about 50 meters off of Australia's eastern coast Wednesday. His friend, Joel Trist, heard his screams from the



JOEL TRIST, CONNELLAN'S FRIEND: The first thing I saw was Brett getting thrashed around in the water. And a terrible scream, I guess. And acting on

instinct, I just paddled as hard as I could towards him. I was just pleading with him to stay with me.

MANN: Connellan's injuries were serious. The shark ripped a large chunk from his left thigh, his hand also badly hurt. With the help of two off-

duty nurses, Trist tied the surfboard's leg rope tightly around his thigh, a move that doctors say probably saved his life. He was air lifted to a

Sydney hospital where he underwent surgery.

AGIE, INTESIVE CARE NURSE AND BYSTANDER: To be honest, it's 50 times harder when it's one of your own. I do deal with pretty, pretty cool patients on a

daily basis, but just we're still scarred with what we saw last night.

MICHAEL FORSYTH, KIAMA COUNCIL: There has been unusually warm water in the last week. There has been sightings of schools of bait fish which could

have led to the sharks being attracted too close to shore.

MANN: Local authorities are still investigating what kind of shark was involved. Connellan has asked that the animal not be harmed. He remains in

stable, but serious condition surrounded by family and friends.

Jonathan Mann, CNN.


GORANI: The award winning architect Zaha Hadid has died today. She was 65 years old.


GORANI: A representative said she died in Miami of a heart attack after suffering from bronchitis. Hadid became first woman to be awarded the

Pritzker architecture prize in 2004, one of her many, many career awards.

One of her best known creations was the London Aquatics Center, it was constructed for the 2012 Olympics. She's built incredibly already instant

classics in terms of structures all over the world. She was also working on the stadium that will be used in Qatar in 2022 for the World Cup there.

Zaha Hadid was 65 years old when she died today in Miami. A lot of reaction online and around the world.


GORANI: This has been "The World Right Now." I'm Hala Gorani, thanks for watching. "Quest Means Business" is up next.