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Trump-RNC Meeting; Clinton Sick of Lies; Explosives Left on School Bus. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:16] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

Let's get right to it on this busy Friday. After a whirlwind week in which he ticked off people on both sides of the abortion debate and reneged on a promise to support whomever becomes the GOP nominee, Donald Trump is now turning his attention to math, as in delegate math of course. A GOP source tells CNN, walking Trump and his top aides through the delegate process was the main focus of his meeting with RNC chief Reince Priebus in Washington. It's even more of a possibility given the possibility of a contested convention. And Trump is now saying it's hard to imagine losing the nomination with all the support he has.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're millions of votes ahead of everyone else, and hundreds of delegates ahead of everyone else. I really think that whoever has that kind of an advantage should get it. I think it's (INAUDIBLE) -

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK. All right, and - and this is -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And as you probably know by now, 1,237 is the magic number. And right now, Trump leads his rivals with 739 pledge delegates to date. So he still has a long way to go.

And a new poll out just days ahead of Tuesday's Wisconsin primary shows Ted Cruz with a ten-point advantage over Trump. This is the second poll, by the way, this week to show Cruz up by 10 points.

So let's dissect all of this with Jonathan Allen, he's a political columnist for "Roll Call" and the co-author of a biography on Hillary Clinton. Also joining us, CNN's senior political reporter Nia Malika Henderson and CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston.

Great to have you all on today.

NIA MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good to be here.

JONATHAN ALLEN, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, "ROLL CALL": Hello. MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: So we've now learned from our sources, Nia, that the main focus of that meeting, as I said, was on math, delegate math. Do you think that this attention on the delegate process could be a sign that Trump is worried?

HENDERSON: Well, you know, you talk to his people - and I was on the phone with a Trump senior adviser about an hour ago, and they don't seem worried. They actually feel confident that Trump will get the 1,239, and even more than 1,239. This is what this particular official said. And, of course, that is what campaigns do, they're supposed to project that kind of confidence.

And if you look at where he is now at 739, he essentially has about 500 more to go. And if you look at April, there are about 400 delegates, some of those are winner take all, but the overwhelming majority are proportional. But then you get, you know, into May and June. He will have opportunities to pick up winner take all states there.

I think, though, what this focus on the delegate math does suggest that the Republican Party, RNC and sort of official and establishment Republicans in all these different states, have been effective of and essentially normalizing this idea that if Donald Trump is short of that 1,239, if he's at 1,238, 1,235, that there is a whole other process, that essentially it starts over in the convention and that he could be denied the nomination, even if he gets the most votes, even if he gets the most delegates, as it looks like he will going into this convention. So in that way, I think they have been successful in terms of putting this conversation and emphasis on this very complicated delegate math and this strategy at the convention.

BROWN: Is it - it's 1,237, right, not 1,239?

HENDERSON: Right.

BROWN: So, and, you know, all of this, frankly, just from my perspective, is confusing, because every state has their own delegate rules and then you have the contested convention and so forth. But, Mark, "The New York Times" is reporting that Trump chided his aides for not doing their job when the conversation turned to this fight for delegates. But then Trump's campaign manager says he did not express aggravation with his team. So what are we to make of all of this?

PRESTON: Well, Pamela, you know, I spoke to somebody who was very well briefed on what happened in that meeting yesterday. They didn't say necessarily that the Trump aides were chided, but there seemed to be an acknowledgement coming out of that meeting and, quite frankly, I think what had been building over the past couple of weeks, that the Trump campaign had been focusing so much on winning states and not understanding that the process is more of a multilayer process that you have to do to win. And I think that's what we saw come out of the meeting.

In addition to that, we also saw, and was told, that it was - there was an enormous amount of talk about unity. That was a big focus of the meeting yesterday, especially coming out of Cleveland. Now, when we go into the Cleveland convention in July, there's a lot of talk about, you know, will there be fighting on the floor, will there be riots taking place outside? And there was a discussion that there needs to be unity for the Republican Party, which is fractured right now, to come together if they're going to defeat the Democratic nominee in November.

[14:05:06] But going back to the delegate math, the Trump campaign did bring somebody on board about a week ago - or maybe or perhaps even just a few days ago, Paul Manafor (ph), very well-established Republican. The question is, did they do it too late?

BROWN: That is the question. We're going to have more on that with Randy Evans (ph) coming up later in the show.

In the meantime, Jonathan, "The New York Times" is also reporting that, quote, "Republicans who once worried that Mr. Trump might gain overwhelming momentum in the primaries are now becoming preoccupied with a different grim prospect, that Mr. Trump might become a kind of zombie candidate, damaged beyond the point of repair, but too late for any of his rivals to stop him."

Jonathan, is there any validity to that? I mean clearly, at this point, there's no evidence of him weakening.

ALLEN: Well, there's certainly Republicans who are worried that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee and cost them seats in the House and the Senate, perhaps cost them both chambers, that he could cost them the presidential election by a landslide. And there are people who are talking about possibly putting up another candidate for other Republicans to sort of come to.

I think what's important to remember as we look at this process is, the reason that Donald Trump won't get 1,237 delegates, if he doesn't get them, is that the majority of Republican voters at that point will have voted for somebody else. And so when you go into that Republican nomination process, it is designed for that reason, so that you're not nominating somebody who got a third of the votes or a quarter of the votes. If nobody got a majority of the votes, what you're doing is trying to find a consensus candidate that a majority of Republicans can agree to.

And so when you pull back a little bit, the process makes a lot more sense. You hear Donald Trump talk about getting robbed, but if you're not the majority candidate, I think both parties look at it like, you ought to be able to find a candidate that everybody can get behind and that's, you know, what you hear with the concern about him having a zombie candidacy is that most Republicans can't get behind him right now.

BROWN: And, Nia, Trump, in the meantime, is now saying that he may have misspoke when talking about punishment and women who get abortions, if it's illegal. But there's this super PAC supporting Hillary Clinton and Planned Parenthood that's sort of teaming up now to seize on that gaffe. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: When it comes to women, the Republican frontrunner is -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Demanding.

TRUMP: You wouldn't have your job if you weren't beautiful.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Insulting.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

TRUMP: There has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.

ON SCREEN TEXT: And dangerous. We have too much to lose to let him win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So this 30-second online spot targets women voters in Florida, Ohio and D.C. Nia, what do you make of that?

HENDERSON: Well I, you know, I think Republicans are very worried about this. I mean, obviously, Democrats have seized on his comments, but we've seen Republicans do this in the past. Just a few weeks ago, there was a Republican - or an anti-Trump super PAC that put out an ad that basically just had women reading words from Donald Trump, talking about women in disparaging ways often. So this is what Republicans are so afraid of, that they would essential, in 2016, come November, if Trump is at the head of their party, they would see another version of the war on women, which worked so successfully for Democrats in 2012 and that Democrats would be able to tie every single Republican on every ballot across the country to Donald Trump, even if Republicans tried to run away from him. So I think this is just a preview of what might happen, what would certainly happen come November and certainly what Republicans are afraid of. And what Republicans themselves are seizing on now to try to get some momentum behind these other candidates, like Ted Cruz and John Kasich.

BROWN: And speaking of a preview, Jonathan, do you think this is a sign, this ad is a sign of a possible general election matchup between these two will get really nasty?

ALLEN: Yes, I think there's mutually assured destruction, but in a different - the difference between a nuclear war (INAUDIBLE) for mutually assured destruction. And what happens in politics is that, in politics you can win the nuclear war. That is to say if you bomb the other side enough, you can drive down - drive up their negatives, drive down their positives and win because it's an either/or. And, obviously, in a real nuclear situation, both sides can lose.

And Trump's rivals are going after him in different ways. In fact, now comparing him to one of the biggest TV reality stars out there. Take a listen. Mark Preston, I'll come to you on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's no doubt that Donald Trump is the Kim Kardashian presidential candidate. He sits on Twitter and makes a lot of noise, but he has no solutions to fixing the problem.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that the overwhelming majority of the delegates at a convention will take this - will take this responsibility very seriously. And I think that's where we're going. And I think it's going to be fantastic. Probably be less Kardashians, more who's going to be president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:16] BROWN: So comparing Kim Kardashian to Donald Trump, Mark, come on, is that fair?

PRESTON: Listen, you know, the big winner in all that is Kim Kardashian because she's now being discussed in the presidential race.

BROWN: More publicity. Exactly.

PRESTON: But, you know, she actually talked about running for mayor, I believe, out in California last year. Listen, here's the situation. The fact is that Donald Trump has been able to drive up his appeal to many people for his time as a reality television show star. There's no question about that.

What we're seeing from those two candidates right now, John Kasich and Ted Cruz, is they're trying to belittle him and they're trying to knock him down and saying that he has no policy proposals, that he talks off the cuff. And one thing that we didn't show from John Kasich there is that John Kasich brought into question whether he would want to have Donald Trump with his finger on the button for nuclear weapons. That is a very strong argument, a very tough argument to make against a candidate. But I will tell you what, we will continue to hear more of that, there's no question about that. And I believe that Donald Trump and Kim Kardashian are going to be discussed more and more and more.

BROWN: The saga will continue, to say the least. Jonathan Allen, Nia Malika Henderson, Mark Preston, thanks so much.

HENDERSON: Thanks, Pam.

ALLEN: Take care.

BROWN: And now this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am so sick of the Sanders campaign lying about that. I'm sick of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Hillary Clinton going off on Bernie Sanders and his campaign. Not only is Sanders now responding, but here's a question, would we even be talking about this if she were a male candidate?

Plus, the CIA accidentally leaves explosives on a school bus that children would eventually get on to. Find out how and where.

And then there's this new, chilling video of a police officer firing eight shots at his fellow cop. See what happened and what happened moments before.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:55] BROWN: New York state of mind is an understatement. Democrats Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are laser-focused on winning that primary and New York, of course, has long been considered Clinton country. She is the state's former senator, after all. But Sanders was born in Brooklyn. And now it's becoming increasingly unclear exactly who has home field advantage. Sanders, today, stopped by Hot 97, one of the country's biggest hip-hop radio stations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way you did it last time.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to come over - it was natural. It was natural. He didn't think twice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Addressing a crowd of 15,000 in the Bronx, as we see, Sanders continued to hammer Clinton on environmental issues. And that talking point echoed all the way to a Clinton rally in Purchase, New York, with the candidate getting fired up. Watch how she reacted to a Greenpeace activist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I know, the Bernie people -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you protect - which climate change, will you act on your word and reject fossil fuel money in the future in your campaign?

CLINTON: I do not - I have money from people who work for fossil fuel companies. I am so sick - I am so sick of the Sanders campaign lying about this. I'm sick of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That activist is claiming she didn't work for the Sanders campaign. But let's talk about this more with Robert Zimmerman, he's a Clinton supporter and fundraiser, and CNN political commentator and former congressional Black Caucus executive director Angela Rye.

Thanks for both - to both of you for coming on.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER AND FUNDRAISER: Good to be with you.

: Thank you.

BROWN: Robert, let's start with you, because we see this interaction between Hillary Clinton and this activist. It's a side of her we don't often see. What do you make of it? Is she growing frustrated with these repeated questions about that? What is it?

ZIMMERMAN: Can I - can I tell you, as a Clinton supporter, one who's been a strong activist as a Democratic national committeeman, I was really very pleased to see her finally take on these lies in this campaign of slander and misinformation that's being led by the Sanders campaign. I mean, obviously, the charge itself is false. And the fact that the Sanders campaign continues to perpetrate - keep it going, I should say, is a much bigger - is a much bigger problem. So it's - you know, it's a very genuine exchange. It's real. It's authentic. And it's about time. I'm glad she did it.

BROWN: But, you know, Angela, I've seen other headlines that say this was an outburst. She's flipping out. She's losing her cool. You know, it made us wonder if a male presidential candidate had this kind of tone, would there be this same reaction?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I would argue, of course not, right. I think that Hillary Clinton is often charged with sounding shrill, with sounding like she's screaming, even though we know that Bernie Sanders often his main volume is very, very loud. So we know that that is, of course, not a fair criticism and it's kind of ridiculous. I think that anyone who continues to be accused of something is likely to, at some point, to respond.

I think the one fair point is that Hillary Clinton has received money from several different types of folks who work in several different types of industries. I think the frustration is coming from the fact that I believe there's a "Washington Post" chart today that shows just how little she has received from employees of the industry. Now, that does not mean that they are giving money on behalf of the companies to persuade her to act in any certain way. It means that these are individuals who happen to work in these companies who like what she's talking about. So I do think it's vastly different.

ZIMMERMAN: That's exactly two - exactly, Angela.

BROWN: Go ahead. ZIMMERMAN: We're talking about 0.2 percent of her entire campaign donations come from individuals who work in these industries. Likewise, Senator Sanders' campaign has received over $50,000, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, from people who work in these industries as well. So I think the charge itself is baseless. But the more important -

BROWN: Sanders, of course, says a majority of his money, though, is coming from, you know, average everyday people who donate small amounts of money at a time. We're seeing his momentum grow, Robert. He had 15,000 people turn out to his rally in the Bronx last night. He raised, speaking of money, $44 million in March alone. Should Clinton be concerned?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, of course. Look, I take nothing away from the Sanders campaign and the energy they've collected and the energy they've created. But let's also remember, as someone who raises money for Senator Clinton - for Secretary Clinton, many of her donors are also average working Americans and her donations are coming in strongly, not just online, but through gatherings.

[14:20:12] But the bigger point is, while I take nothing away from Senator Sanders' (INAUDIBLE) and his rallies, senator - Secretary Clinton still has 2.5 million more votes than, in fact, Bernie Sanders has and is leading in elected delegates. So that, I think, is the bigger focus for Hillary Clinton versus Bernie Sanders. Not just the rallies and the sound bites, but the actual votes and the delegates who were elected.

BROWN: Well, but she has lost six out of the seven - the last seven races, right, against Bernie Sanders?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's true, she's lost some, but she's also won not only the bigger states, but, more importantly, the states that represents greater diversity. And that's the face of America.

BROWN: And no doubt about it, she does have more delegates than Bernie Sanders.

Angela, we know both campaigns are in talks to schedule a debate in New York, but the Clinton campaign said it all depends on Sanders' tone. I want to show you a tweet sent out this morning saying, "I've been criticized for my big ideas. You know what wasn't too pie-in-the- sky for my opponent? $1.7 trillion to invade Iraq." That tweet coming from Bernie Sanders. Is that the tone the Clinton camp is talking about and does he indeed need to dial it back, Angela?

RYE: Well, I think that - here's the reality of this. This race, Pamela, is going to be over soon. Bernie Sanders initially talked about not - or dropping out sometime after June or not even considering it until June, rather, and now he's saying he's going to take it right up to the convention. I think the reality of it is, there's not a huge gulf between these candidates. When Secretary Clinton was in the Senate, she, of course, had a voting record that was 93 percent the same as Bernie Sanders. And so what I think would be good for the party right now is to stand behind each other on where there is similarities, now here there's parody, on where they see issues the same.

ZIMMERMAN: You know -

RYE: I don't think there's anything - just let me finish, Robert.

ZIMMERMAN: Go.

RYE: I don't think there's any wrong with that particular tweet, to point out the differences. I just don't see it being as helpful and effective right now. Bernie Sanders has done very, very well with millennials and, of course, Robert has talked about the enthusiasm. Him turning out 15,000 folks in New York and he did the same thing in Seattle last week. I think now is the time to start talking about how we can start supporting each other and moving those folks along to support them (INAUDIBLE) this election (INAUDIBLE).

BROWN: Final thought, Robert.

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Angela, to your point, our party may need - the Democratic Party may need some couples counseling when this process is over, but the Republicans are going to need anger management therapy when their process is over.

RYE: They need more than that.

ZIMMERMAN: I'd much - I'd much - I'd much rather be where the Democratic Party is going forward to victory in November then seeing where the Republicans are.

BROWN: All right, Angela Rye, Robert Zimmerman, thank you very much.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

RYE: Thank you.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up on this Friday, the CIA accidentally leaves explosive material on a school bus after a training exercise and then, get this, elementary school students rode on that explosive laden bus before the material was discovered. What happened here? That story, up next.

Plus, a dramatic rescue. Two police officers jump into action to save the life of a little girl and it's all caught on the dash cam. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:39] BROWN: A big oops by the CIA. Officials say agents accidentally left explosive material on a Virginia school bus, a bus that actually drove children around with that material still hidden on board. National correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has more on how this happened and what the CIA has to say about it.

Suzanne. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pam, it's pretty

alarming. You can imagine how the parents of those kids who were riding on that bus reacted. They were absolutely shocked. Now, these students, they'd been riding this bus for two days before this explosive training material had actually been found.

So here's how it happened. This is according to Loudon County school officials and the CIA. Last week the students were on spring break. The CIA has using the bus to train its canine units who were trying to figure out how to detect these explosive materials. Those involved in the training inadvertently left the explosive material on the bus.

So when the students returned from their break, this is Monday and Tuesday, the bus transported 26 students from two elementary schools, as well as a high school, made eight runs, logging about 145 miles. It wasn't until Wednesday that a maintenance worker, doing a routine check, discovers the explosive material hidden in the bus's engine compartment. That is when Loudoun County fire marshal, the sheriff office was notified, as well as the CIA. An e-mail goes out to the parents and the staff members last night stating that this explosive training material was, quote, "in a benign state and could not be activated through normal operation of the bus." Just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYDE BYARD, SPOKESMAN, LOUDOUN COUNTY VIRGINIA SCHOOLS: And the state that it's in, you'd have to have a blasting cap or something to actually make it explode. That was not the case.

We partnered with law enforcement to allow them to train, first of all, to get to know our schools in case we have an active shooter or some kind of emergency like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Pam, he's trying to put everybody at ease. The CIA releasing this statement today saying, "to prevent such incidents from happening again, CIA has taken immediate steps to strengthen inventory and control procedures in its canine program. CIA will also conduct a thorough and independent review of CIA's canine training program. It has performed a full inventory this morning and accounted for all explosive training material used."

BROWN: Wow! I imagine that was a big shock to the parents, but glad everyone is OK in this situation. Suzanne Malveaux -

[14:30:00] MALVEAUX: Oh, could you imagine that?

BROWN: No. And that the -

MALVEAUX: The e-mail goes -

BROWN: The inspector, who was looking at the bus, finding explosive material.

MALVEAUX: Unbelievable. BROWN: It's just an incredible story. I have to be honest, when I first heard it, I said, is this an April Fools something or other, but clearly it wasn't.

MALVEAUX: Yes, you would think it is, right? Unfortunately