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Trump Camp: Tennessee GOP Trying to Steal Delegates; Cruz Leads Trump in Crucial Wisconsin; Convicted Felon Speaks on Transformation, Redemption; Former Inmate Finds Prison Reform Allies in GOP; Cut 50 Initiative Works to Cut U.S. Prison Population; Booming Industry Has Investors Banking on Winning Lawsuit. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 02, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:39] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. I'm so glad you're with us. First up this hour, politics and Donald Trump facing what could be the toughest challenge of his campaign. With just three days left before Wisconsin voters head to the polls, Trump is trying to change the conversation after a week of not one, not two, but three major controversies. First, his campaign manager arrested for misdemeanor battery for an incident with a female reporter, then there was the firestorm over his comments about using nuclear weapons and who should have them.

And then an admission that he says he misspoke when he said women who get abortions should be punished if they are made illegal. And now there is this. Donald Trump's campaign is accusing Tennessee's Republican Party and its leaders of trying to quote-unquote, "Steal delegates from the billionaire businessman." Dozens of Trump supporters protesting the Tennessee GOP Party in Nashville today. The Trump campaign claiming that behind closed doors there's maneuvering going on in Tennessee and that it's part of a nationwide effort to stop the Republican front-runner from becoming the party's nominee.

Back on March 1st, Trump won Tennessee's primary with 39 percent of the vote, he captured 33 of the state's delegates but there are 14 additional at large delegates not awarded in the primary. Well, the Trump camp is claiming that Tennessee's Republican Party chairman is working to make sure many of those 14 delegates go into the convention in July not supporting Trump.

Joining me on the phone is Tennessee Republican Party Chairman Ryan Haynes. Thank you for being with us, sir. Who better to react than you yourself, the Trump camp is pointing the finger at you and saying you guys are working behind their back trying to make sure those 14 delegates don't like Donald Trump and don't want to vote for him. What say you?

RYAN HAYNES, TENNESSEE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIRMAN: Well, Poppy, nothing could be further from the truth. The facts are this. On Election Day, Donald Trump was awarded 33 delegates to the Republican National Convention. Yesterday he had 33 delegates, today he has 33 delegates. And tomorrow he'll have 33 delegates all the way into the national convention. And in addition to that those individuals are bound by state law to support him for two rounds of voting. Any one that does not do that along with his elected delegation, has committed a crime per the laws of the state of Tennessee.

HARLOW: So, you told the Tennessee newspaper Donald Trump will get every delegate he is entitled to. Well, let's talk about numbers here. You have got this 14 at large outstanding delegates. And as we know in this race every delegate matters, right?

HAYNES: They absolutely matter.

HARLOW: So when you -- I just want to finish the question. When you look at this, how many at large delegates do you think Donald Trump will get from Tennessee going into the convention?

HAYNES: Well, it's not a matter of what we think. It's a matter of what it is. Donald Trump will get --

HARLOW: You choose them. You choose who it is.

HAYNES: Yes. We do choose the individuals, we did that today. And those individuals that were chosen are bound by state law to vote for him through two rounds of voting. Today we awarded him six delegates, Senator Cruz was awarded six delegates, Marco Rubio was given two delegates. In addition to that, there are two RNC members that have been pledged to support Donald Trump. Just a few moments ago he tweeted out that he was excited to have John Rider as his legal -- excuse me, as a delegate for him. He's the RNC legal counsel. And then my vote will go to Marco Rubio. But the numbers have not changed. He gets the same number of delegates. What's happened is he put forth a slate of individuals that he wanted to see go under his name but unfortunately we are not able to accommodate every one of his requests.

HARLOW: But your vote goes to a candidate who is no longer in the race.

HAYNES: I'm sorry, can you repeat that, Poppy?

HARLOW: Why does your vote go to a candidate who is no longer in the race?

HAYNES: Because we have an opportunity to select who it is that we would like to support.

HARLOW: But he's, I mean, he's not even up -- he's not in the race.

HAYNES: That's correct. He's not in the race and I felt like that gave me the flexibility, come convention, to have a more open -- have an open mind who we select and to represent the wishes of our voters at that point.

HARLOW: Do you want -- do you believe in open convention at this time, is in the best interests of the party? [17:05:05] HAYNES: You know, I don't know yet that we're going to

have an open convention. It's difficult to tell. We're still not at that point yet. But I think at the end of the day what the Republican Party is going to do is rally around whoever our nominee is, and go forward and take on Hillary Clinton's liberal policies in the fall. And I think we'll be successful in doing that like just we've been here in Tennessee.

HARLOW: Trump's Tennessee campaign director said today that you are a quote, "puppet," his words, doing the bidding of the party establishment. What do you say to him?

HAYNES: Sure. Well, I think it's unfortunate that somebody would resort to name calling. It's just not acceptable. You know, my phone number was tweeted out by one of their national campaign directors, my personal cell phone number, my e-mails. Apparently you know, their Tennessee campaign manager said that Mr. Trump asked for that to be done himself. I don't know whether that happened or not. But the way I look at it is, you know, it's water under the bridge. We've got our slate here in Tennessee. And I think at the end of the day all Republicans can be proud that we had a very civil, yet fierce debate with regards to who this slate should be at the Republican National Convention. I wish the public could have seen that debate because it shows that we can still have civility in politics and don't have to resort to name calling. And that's not just something I'm interested in doing.

HARLOW: Ryan Haynes, chairman of the Tennessee Republican Party, I do appreciate you joining me this hour. Thank you so much. Now, I do want to take our viewers now live to Rothschild, Wisconsin, you see Donald Trump speaking live. Let's listen.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- But you know, but when he gets money from the banks and he gets money from oil and gas and he gets money from everything, believe me they have him, folks. They have him. I get money from me. I really am here for one reason, to represent you. To represent you. Believe me. And it's so great. When I come to places, and I like the little thing. I told my people they said let's keep them smaller because you know, we had protesters, right? So they said let's keep them smaller. This way we can check everybody that comes in. I said yes, but I like the big. I like the big. You know, we have 5,000. Where is the mall here? Where is the mall?

We have 5,000 people in the mall. So I told my people, enough with this stuff. Let them have protesters, who cares, right? Who cares? We have 5,000 people on the other side of the wall. And I feel so guilty, we love you, let's all say, we love you over there.

CROWD: We love you over there.

TRUMP: But you wouldn't swap seats, I guarantee you that. So -- and I hope you can hear well back there. Can you hear well? Everybody. Good. Thank you. Can the mall hear well? Let's see if we can hear. Can the mall hear well? I think they can hear well. I hope they can. Anyway, this is amazing. So look. I'm doing this to make America great again of it that's our theme. All these hats, look at all these hats. We're doing this --

(APPLAUSE)

HARLOW: As Donald Trump makes his case to voters in Rothschild, Wisconsin at the same time, let's go to Hillary Clinton speaking live in Eau Claire.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I want to tell you what I intend to do because I want you to know. I think that's only fair. It shouldn't be enough that people just make promises that are going to be really hard if not impossible to keep or even worse, give speeches that incite anger and violence against our fellow Americans. Those are not an agenda. We need an agenda. Because when you show up in Washington, you got to have your head down, you got to have your goals set. I want to the I'm so fortunate enough to be the nominee to literally start working on that as soon as I secure the nomination. Because I'm well aware that it's going to take all the energy I have and all the energy of everybody else to push through what I am proposing.

And let me tell you what it is. Number one. The first test a president should face, as you decide whether to hire somebody, because think about this. This is your chance to hire somebody. To do the job. So, you have to say to yourself, who of everybody running can actually make a positive difference in my life, the life of my family, my community? And how are they going to do it? Show me. Tell me how it's going to happen. I think that is absolutely the first test that anybody running for president should not only face but pass in your estimation.

HARLOW: Hillary Clinton speaking live to supporters in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, making her case ahead of the Wisconsin primary on Tuesday. We're going to take a quick break.

[17:10:07] And coming up next, I will be joined live by Ted Cruz's national spokesman, and we'll get his take on Trump's campaign fight over delegates in Tennessee, also how critical they think a win in Wisconsin is for their campaign.

Also ahead this hour, he is a convicted murder now dedicating his life to helping others on the outside not get in the same position he was in. And he's dedicating his life to prison reform. Criminal justice reform. My conversation with Shaka Senghor on trying to transform the country's prison system is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:14:06] HARLOW: Right now, Ted Cruz is fighting to make up the difference in delegates between himself and Republican frontrunner Donald Trump. If Cruz wins Tuesday's Wisconsin primary, his efforts many gain some momentum. Heading into Tuesday's primary, here is what the polls show. Cruz with a substantial lead in the badger state, according to a new Marquette university poll the Texas Senator has 40 percent of Republican support there versus 30 percent for Trump. Governor Kasich has 21 percent. A loss though for Cruz in Wisconsin could make it much harder for him to clinch the nomination. Let's talk about this and a whole lot more with Cruz campaign national

spokesman Ron Nehring. Thank you for being with me.

RON NEHRING, NATIONAL SPOKESMAN, TED CRUZ CAMPAIGN: You bet.

HARLOW: So, Trump adviser Barry Bennett came out and he said that if Cruz, your man, loses Wisconsin it is impossible for him to win the nomination outright. What's the plan if you don't win Wisconsin?

NEHRING: Well, we're doing very well in Wisconsin --

HARLOW: True.

NEHRING: Well, you know, we've had a terrific response this week, both with Senator Cruz in the state and then with both Heidi Cruz and Carly Fiorina. You know, the candidate who has real problems in Wisconsin is, you know, is Donald Trump because the air continues to come out of the balloon. And right now, it's the people of Wisconsin who are focused on this race more than the people of any other state in the country because they are up next. And in that state you know we've seen when we first started polling, we were significantly, you know, behind in Wisconsin that has completely turned around. We have the winner at our backs at this point. And, you know, Donald Trump is certainly going all in. I mean, he's -- raised the stakes.

HARLOW: Wisconsin must win for you guys?

NEHRING: I think every state coming up is important. We're competing in every state.

HARLOW: But is it a must win?

NEHRING: You know, I think they are all important. As we go forward. And we have a path, you know, mapped out going forward and certainly it's better for us to be in a strong position with the wind at our back with the support of, you know, Governor -- Governor Scott Walker this week, coming on top of support of other Wisconsin leaders, that's all very, very good news for us and it's bad news, you know, for Donald Trump. But what's interesting is that he's upping his advertising there, he is holding additional events there, so if anyone is raising the stakes in Wisconsin, it's Donald Trump.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this. In December let me show you this tweet that Senator Ted Cruz put out back in December. And he said the establishment's only hope Trump and me in a cage match sorry to disappoint, Donald Trump is terrific. He called Donald Trump terrific. And he couldn't take a more different stance now how times have changed. But he said that after Donald Trump had made disparaging remarks about Carly Fiorina's appearance, about the journalist Megyn Kelly. Do you think that your candidate Ted Cruz at all played a role in the elevation of Trump by not objecting to comments like that sooner?

NEHRING: I think that Donald Trump has certainly been a singular phenomenon in this race. I think a lot of people, you know, were affected by this persona that Donald Trump, you know, brought here. And people weren't really sure I think as to everything that Donald Trump has revealed himself to be in the time since then. I mean, in election is more than just coming up with a nominee. It's a vetting process as well.

HARLOW: But these comments were made before Cruz tweeted that he's quote-unquote, "terrific." Looking back, I know hindsight is 20/20 should he have spoken up soon center

NEHRING: Well, you know, I think Donald Trump has revealed himself the most with the actions that he's taken the most recently. We've seen a change in the dynamic both in terms of the other candidates and in terms of the voters going forward as we have a better idea, clear ideas as to what Donald Trump is really about. And, you know, voters clearly are deciding, those voters paying the most attention to this race, people in Wisconsin, are deciding that Donald Trump is not the person to lead this party and not the person, you know, to lead the country going forward. And I think that that, you know, that is accurate in terms of, you know, what we've learned about him, you know, and that's been a very, very informative process and I think that his actions now clearly speak for themselves.

HARLOW: Ron, wish we had more time. We'll have you back. Thank you for joining me.

NEHRING: You bet.

HARLOW: Coming up next week, switching -- coming up next, we're switching gears and looking at this week's American opportunity. Here is the story. A convicted murderer setting out to transform America's prison system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAKA SENGHOR, FORMER PRISON INMATE: Our prison system currently operates as one big warehouse.

HARLOW: A warehouse.

SENGHOR: Yes. A warehouse. Warehouse of misery to be specific.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Hear the story from Shaka Senghor, what he is doing with Republicans and Democrats to change things, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:22:33] HARLOW: It is an issue Republicans and Democrats alike have increasingly gotten behind, criminal justice reform. But the question is what really needs to change on the inside to help convicts turn their life around after they are released? Shaka Senghor is a convicted murderer that I sat down with this week and he tours the world now speaking at big events like the Aspen Ideas Festival. He just finished a fellowship at M.I.T. He is also the author of a new book, "Writing My Wrongs: Life, Death, and Redemption in an American Prison." His mission is to transform the prison system in America. I sat down with him for this week's American opportunity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW (voice-over): Shaka Senghor will always bear the title convicted felon?

SENGHOR: At the age of 19, I shot and killed a man.

HARLOW: But of course his life didn't start out that way.

(on camera): You were an honor roll student. What happened?

SENGHOR: You know, once I started things at home I stopped taking an interest in school. And it's one of the things that now when I look back especially working with a lot of young people, I think about how we sometimes fail as adults to really pay attention to what's happening with children. To barely showing up in class.

HARLOW: You say no one ever stopped to say what's wrong?

SENGHOR: Yes.

HARLOW: Why your grades falling off. Not one person.

SENGHOR: Not one person. It felt like the ideal like middle class family. A lot of siblings, a lot of fun times but also a lot of very hurtful and painful times. Dealing with abuse, my mother and dealing with dissolution of my parents' marriage.

HARLOW (voice-over): He served 19 years, seven of them in solitary confinement.

(on camera): You knowingly chose the street life. No one pushed you there. Nothing forced you there. Why did you choose it?

SENGHOR: Well, I was looking for love and acceptance. And I ran away when I was 14-years-old and, you know, I was naive like most 14-year- olds and thought that somebody's parent would take me in and shelter me from abuse but that didn't happen. And so when I got introduced to the drug trade, it came under the guise of love and acceptance. And when you're a young vulnerable teenager who has been hurt and damage, you're looking for that type of emotional connection to anybody that is saying hey, I love you and I have your back. So I chose that lifestyle.

HARLOW: You felt accepted there.

SENGHOR: I felt accepted. Definitely.

HARLOW (voice-over): He sold crack by age 14, was shot himself at 17, and murdered a man by 19. In a drug deal gone awry.

SENGHOR: I realized that not only had I tragically caused somebody's death but I devastated somebody's family and that I couldn't take that back. I had a letter from my son when I was in solitary. He wrote and said dear dad, I know you're in prison for murder. Please dad don't kill again. Jesus watches what you do. As a father I realized that I had not only failed my son, but that I was failing a whole generation of young men growing up in the neighborhood. I realized that I needed to do something different with my life and first thing was taking full responsibility for the decisions I made that landed me in prison. But also to figure out a way how I can utilize that experience to help other young men and women avoid the path that I had taken.

HARLOW: The aunt of the man Senghor murdered wrote him a letter of forgiveness while he was serving time. She told me she loved him because God loved him.

(on camera): I think a lot of viewers watching this will ask, you are a former felon, a murderer, you took a man's life. Why should people listen to you now?

SENGHOR: Because I think in order to solve the problem you have to be as close proximity to it as possible. And the reality is that, you know, gun violence is a large part of what's happening in American society. And who better to understand how to solve that than somebody who's gone through it. You look at our criminal justice system, if you haven't been in there you can't really tell somebody what needs to be done to turn it around. The last time I was in solitary confinement was 23-hour lockdown, 24 hour lockdown. Two days of the week, and it was transformative. I realized that something was terribly wrong with our system. But the level of barbarity in the humanized (ph) and behavior that exists in solitary confinement was shocking to my conscience.

[17:27:12] HARLOW (voice-over): In "Writing my Wrongs," Senghor asks the central question -- how do you emerge in a society that is so unforgiving.

(on camera): This is a lot of discussion right now in Washington about prison reform. Are you hopeful?

SENGHOR: I'm very hopeful. I think that we're at a space now where the American public is a lot more aware. Because I feel like, you know, if you're footing the bill for this, and to not get the return on investment that's been promised to us, I think is really unfair. And our prison system currently operates as one big warehouse.

HARLOW: A warehouse.

SENGHOR: Yes. A warehouse. Warehouse of misery to be specific. And so the reality is, either you can further hurt them and then you can wake up and say okay, I'm not surprised that they get out and come back. And so, I think that politicians for years have lied to the American public with the war on drugs and the fear-based campaign of, let's be tough on crime. And they said well, we'll lock them up and throw away the key. But the reality is 90 percent of people incarcerated will get out.

HARLOW: A 2014 study from the Bureau of Justice statistics followed inmates from 30 states for five years. It found nearly 70 percent of former prisoners returned to prison within three years of being released.

SENGHOR: American society we have a choice, what kind of men you want. And so, either you want healthy men and women who ready to re- enter society as contributing members of society or you want broken men and women who's going to come out and wreak havoc on society.

HARLOW (voice-over): Today he works with the cut 50 initiative, a bipartisan effort to reduce the U.S. prison population by half by 2025.

Who is your biggest ally in this fight?

SENGHOR: We have multiple allies surprisingly. I mean, Newt Gingrich has been a great ally. A lot of people from the Republican Party, and you know, different politicians, so you know, I just think it's a time in the country where everybody is realizing that we've done this thing wrong for a long time. I mean, 1994, President Clinton passed a crime bill. Prison population exploded as a result of that bill. Extremely harsh sentences for crimes that didn't really warrant that.

HARLOW: Three strikes you're out.

SENGHOR: Three strikes you're out. The removal of higher education in prison. Even though it was proven that those who come out educated are less likely to go back. I mean, I was at 4.0 when they took college out. And so, I didn't get an opportunity to get my degree.

HARLOW: House Speaker Paul Ryan said recently he would bring legislation to the floor of the House to amend criminal sentencing laws.

[17:30:00] What's your reaction to that?

SENGHOR: I think it's great. I think if you think about what the cornerstone is of faith, is forgiveness and redemption. And I think that when we look at our country, that' the foundation of the country, is built on faith, different faiths. No matter what faith you come from, background you come from, that's a deep part of it. And sadly it hasn't been extended to those who are incarcerated.

HARLOW: Are you an anomaly?

SENGHOR: I don't think so. We're throwing away a lot of greatness. We are dismissing people's humanity. I think we failed considerably when it comes to specifically inner city kids, we're quick to throw them away, quick to judge them more harshly than other kids are judged. It's a reality of the racial dynamics and the class in America. We're not always honest about that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Quite a transformation.

Shaka, thank you very much.

I do want to note that Shaka now works with the Cut 50 initiative that's a bipartisan group focusing on criminal justice reform. Their goal is to cut the U.S. prison population in half by 2025. He also works with youth, trying to help keep them out of prison.

Up next, somebody who works with him. Van Jones will joins on how realistic it is to get something through Congress on this front, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We showed you the story of Shaka Senghor, convicted murderer who served 19 years in prison, now fighting for criminal justice reform and working with at-risk youth to keep them from his same fate.

Consider these numbers for a moment. The United States has 5 percent of the world's population but up to 25 percent of the world's incarcerated people. More than two million men and women are behind bars. And as American taxpayers, you are all spending $80 billion a year on the prison system. 70 percent of those who are released from prison will return in three years.

You'll remember, last year, President Obama became the first sitting U.S. president to visit a federal prison.

And also you'll remember that House Speaker Paul Ryan has come out loudly on this front. Here's what he said last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:35:25] REP. PAUL RYAN, (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There are a lot of people who have been in prison, who committed crimes that were not violent crimes, and who, once they have that blight on their record, have been in prison, their future is really bleak. And in the 1990s -- I came here in the late '90s -- we, I think, over compensated on some of our criminal justice laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Van Jones is with me. He's working with Shaka Senghor on this reform effort, working with him on Cut 50.

Van, thank you for being with me.

I want to get to how bipartisan this is. Because, in this day and age, these issues, the people can agree on are few and far between. It struck me when he said one of his biggest allies is Newt Gingrich, for example. Who is taking the lead on this?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, as a very strong Democrat, I have to acknowledge it's been strong Republicans who have been stepping forward and saying, wait a minute, this is a big failed government bureaucracy we're spending $80 billion a year on and getting a 70 percent failure rate. Give me a break. So Rick Perry, in Texas, went out, wound up closing three prisons and brought the crime rate down because the prisons were making the crime worst. You have Kasich running for president. He reformed stuff in Ohio. Newt Gingrich has been on board for a long time. Even Governor Deal, in Georgia, ran a big reform thing, brought crime down. It turns out you could not have a dumber way to waste money and make streets less safe.

HARLOW: There are a lot of bills in front of Congress. Is there one you think has the best chance of passing and what's the biggest change it would make?

JONES: Right now you have two bills, one in the Senate, one in the House, both moving forward. The Senate bill is now out of committee, it's waiting for McConnell to bring it forward. A challenge that we had is that Ted Cruz who seemed to be supportive of this stuff, seemed to have gotten cold feet in committee, and now that's hung up the process. My big hope is that the tidal wave of good thinning, President Obama, both Sanders and Clinton speaking out but also many Republicans will eventually win the day. Let me tell you the kind of stuff that I think is the low hanging fruit. Obviously, when you're giving people 10, 20, 30-year sentences for minor drug offenses, that is not a good use of money. You've got to be able to give people the opportunity to deal with their addiction in a way, more effective way. You have people who do things that are serious, you've got to put money into helping them turn their lives around, not just warehouse them and put them in solitary where they get worse.

HARLOW: That's what I wanted to ask you. The convicted murderer we heard from said to me I was getting a 4.0 in my college program in prison and then legislation passed that took away the education program. I know your initiative is about reducing the prison population and letting some of those non-violent offenders out. What has to happen inside?

JONES: Well, this is the thing. First of all, we should do a better job making sure only people go to prison who are serious threats to themselves and others should be there, for a long period of time. A lot of these minor offenses could be dealt with more cost effectively and better. Once someone is in prison the programming should start immediately to make sure that they have the opportunity to get better. We pulled a lot of programming dollars out. Then third, you dump them in the street and give them 20 bucks for a bus ticket and no opportunity to ever get a job or to vote or get a student loan, you're setting them up for failure.

HARLOW: Van Jones, thank you so much.

The Cut 50 initiative is what you're working on. Appreciate you coming on to talk about this important issue.

JONES: And I'll tell you what. Shaka Senghor is the only person I know he can impress everybody, from Oprah Winfrey and Newt Gingrich, to kids on the street. He is an American hero and I'm proud to work with him.

HARLOW: Quite a story. I would point people to his book.

Thank you so much, Van. We appreciate it.

Coming up next, we'll tell you a fascinating story about the booming industry that has investors banking on winning a lawsuit. That's right. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You've probably never heard of it, a sport that combines sled dog racing and cross-country skiing.

This is Skijoring. And it changed Dallas Johnson's life.

DALLAS JOHNSON, SKIJORING PARTICIPANT: The dog would be there every morning. Let's go out. Go run. Knowing that I was working with that teammate, not wanting to let her down, it sounds silly, but gave me the push to get control of my weight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's get ready. The dogs are ready to run.

(SHOUTING)

[17:40:22] GUPTA: Johnson lost more than 80 pounds, and now races competitively every year, in one of the country's largest skijor races.

(SHOUTING)

JOHNSON: Beautiful thing about Skijor, the dogs remind you that the racing is secondary. Being out there and doing it is the important thing.

(SHOUTING)

JOHNSON: I love her. She's my buddy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: So when you think mortgage-backed securities, you think, oh, no, that almost derailed world economies. Well, since then, the idea of an innovative financial product can give investors pause. But a new type of security is percolating in U.S. markets, a way to fund legal battles by investors. You've got investors buying up the best cases they can find, betting on them, and turning them into assets.

Our Alexis Weed reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[17:45:02] ALEXIS WEED, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Lawsuits, they are expensive. So expensive sometimes it makes no sense to litigate. Until now, when there is a booming new industry in litigation finance. Capital from investors, speculators literally banking on a winning lawsuit.

(on camera): What is litigation finance? SELVYN SEIDEL, LITIGATION FINANCE ADVISOR: Financing, paying money to

a claimant who otherwise couldn't afford too prosecute what is a good case.

WEED (voice-over): If the litigant prevails the investor takes a cut.

SEIDEL: They have incentive to support good cases, because if they lose, it's their dime.

WEED: Burford, the biggest industry player, reports a 70 percent return on invested capital since going public in 2009.

Selvyn Seidel, co-founder of Burford, is chair of a company that negotiates funding agreements.

(on camera): How big is this industry in terms of these firms are making quite a bit.

SEIDEL: I knew you were going to come to that. It's impossible to tell how much. You can't even tell in the U.S. how many litigations there are.

WEED (voice-over): Lack of information that has Congress concerned. Senate Judiciary's Chuck Grassley calls the industry's rate of expansion alarming.

(on camera): What part is most alarming to you?

SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY, (R), IOWA: I think the fact we don't know anything about it.

WEED (voice-over): Grassley wants investment firms like Burford to turn over information to help evaluate whether the industry needs regulation.

GRASSLEY: They are going to want to make sure they are properly rewarded for their help.

WEED (on camera): Is that something that you know at this point? How much money is allocated to a financer as opposed to let's say a plaintiff in a lawsuit?

GRASSLEY: No. It's a very important thing that we need to know.

WEED (voice-over): Financial underdogs argue that without financing they'd stand no chance against corporate giants.

SEIDEL: That's what it's been heralded as giving access to justice and leveling the playing field.

WEED: Burford, one of three firms Grassley contacted, declined the request, saying, "Our obligations prevent us from disclosing our funding agreements."

(on camera): Many people have called it the Wild West of finance. Why are people giving it that kind of characterization? SEIDEL: It's a new industry, it's changing daily, and changing

rapidly. Number two, the defendant community. How can we deal with this new industry? It doesn't have rules.

WEED (voice-over): So far, the only rules are those adopted by individual courts.

(on camera): Is there a point at which you would say a finance company is too heavily invested in backing a lawsuit?

GRASSLEY: It's possible that our investigation would lead to requirements for more transparency. When you bring transparency to something, you bring accountability to it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Key words, transparency and accountability.

Alexis Weed joins me now.

It's a fascinating look at something I didn't know existed. You look at these investors, they have to have a reason to want to do this. So how big of a cut are we talking about that they get if they win?

WEED: So, Poppy, that's the entire problem here. Is these agreements are that, they are confidential. Nobody knows. We don't know what the cut is. So the concern, is well, are these litigants who may have been injured, the litigants looking to get an award at the end of the day, are they giving away too much of their potential award?

HARLOW: You've got Senator Grassy we heard from. What does he want, the compromise for him?

WEED: So he is concerned about whether or not these too large of a chunks may be given away and he's also concerned that the cases may be flooding courtrooms that if investors are involved that they are going to push for bigger awards and they are going to be able to stand much longer in court than let's say someone who doesn't have the backing so he's concerned that the justice system being overhauled and overtaken by these lawsuits.

HARLOW: Maybe too much litigation and not as much settling.

WEED: Perhaps.

HARLOW: Alexis Weed, we thank you so much.

WEED: Thank you.

HARLOW: Fascinating look at an entire new industry.

Coming up next, "Shark Tank" and Mr. Wonderful, and a message for corporate America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [17:49:24] KEVIN O'LEARY, HOST, SHARK TANK: Let's get hip America. Let's get women running companies because it's the right thing to do to be competitive and get returns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Kevin O'Leary, he is better known as Mr. Wonderful from the ABC hit show "Shark Tank." He says he's noticed something pretty interesting in the returns in the companies he's invested in lately. He told me this week that all of the returns, the profits coming from the companies he's invested in, well, they are the ones run by women.

I sat down with him to ask why, and also if he has always historically been supportive enough of women in business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Do you think you've always been fair to women in business, before this light went off in your head? When you look back, Kevin, at your career, did you maybe not give some women the shot they deserved?

O'LEARY: It's a fair question, and you're right. Years ago, when I would put risk capital out, particularly venture portfolio, I tended to do what the industry has done, favor men just because those are the ones that were getting funded. That is not what I do today. My results are basically black and white. They are telling me that in America today we are not using enough women in management. There is no question about that.

HARLOW: So why are we paid les?

O'LEARY: That is basically a legacy issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:54:33] HARLOW: My interview with him, tonight, at 7:30 p.m. eastern time. He makes his case for more female CEOs, and also sends a pretty blunt message to male entrepreneurs.

Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: March Madness is quickly coming to an end, but if you need a little extra basketball fix before it's all over, look no further than this week's "CNN Hero."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: This program is not about creating the next basketball star. It's about developing young people develop skills that are going to prepare them for the next step. It allows you to navigate and challenges that are in your face because that's what's going to happen when they hit life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And in this basketball program, the older players become mentors to the younger ones, and that can become a pathway to college.

You can watch all of Taylor's fascinating and inspiring story. Go to CNNheroes.com. While there, nominate whoever you think should be a CNN 2016 hero.

Coming up, one hour from now, at 7:00 p.m. eastern, the Democratic debate over debates. Yep, you got it. Clinton and Sanders, their camps squabbling over a debate here in New York ahead of the critical primary. They can't find a date that works for everyone. Back and forth, back and forth. We'll talk about that next, one hour from now.

I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York.

"Smerconish" starts next.