Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Republicans Battle for Wisconsin; 2016 Presidential Race; Eight Terrorists on the Run; Trump Campaign. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired April 04, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up next. For our viewers here in North America, "Newsroom" with Pamela Brown, sitting in for Brooke Baldwin, starts right now.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Brooke Baldwin. Great to have you along with us on this Nonday. This is CNN's coverage of the final sprint to Wisconsin. Today, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are blanketing the battleground state as they gear up for tomorrow's critical primary there. And in just minutes from now, they're holding dueling rallies and, of course, we will bring both of them to you live.
And it's worth mentioning that this is the second round of competing events in Wisconsin today. The stakes are high to say the least. It's not winner take all, but winner take most. Forty-two delegates are up for grabs and the battle is fierce. As Trump tries to bounce back from a rocky week, he is doubling down on his scorching calls for rival John Kasich to drop out of the race. And Cruz jumping on board now, taking out his first negative ad against Kasich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's one in 30. He ought to get the hell out. He's just like a stubborn guy. He's stubborn. He doesn't want to leave. I asked him the other day, are you going to leave? No, I'm not going to leave. And let me tell you, he hurts me much more than he hurts Cruz. Cruz wants him out. Cruz is wrong. He hurts me.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are only two candidates whose names will appear on the ballot. Donald Trump and myself. Under the rules, you have to have won eight states. There are only two candidates who will have met that threshold. The choice will be between me and Donald Trump and I believe we will win that election if there is a contested convention. And, you know, one of the easiest ways to understand that is simply ask the question, where do the Rubio delegates and where do the Kasich delegates go? And I think they naturally come to us. And that puts us over a majority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Pressure mounting as the candidates steel themselves for what could be a contested convention. Let's get right to CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. He's live from Superior, Wisconsin, where Trump will be speaking any minute now. Jim, Trump really has to make up some ground here. Think he can do it
with his rally extravaganza today?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think so. Pam, you're right, you heard what Donald Trump said at that last rally in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, earlier this morning. A win would certainly change everything in this race. If he doesn't win, it's going to be that much harder for him to capture that magic number of 1,237 delegates needed to clinch the nomination. And that is why you're hearing him go after not only Ted Cruz but John Kasich.
John Kasich is not really a threat to Donald Trump in terms of winning the nomination in these individual primaries, but he made it very clear, as you heard in that sound you just played, that he wants John Kasich out of this race. He pointed out that Kasich is in New York right now. He's not even competing in Wisconsin. Just to give you a sense as to how well Kasich is doing in Wisconsin, he's not even here.
But, you know, there is a fighting spirit inside the Trump campaign. There is this internal memo that was obtained by "The Washington Post" and by - later on by us showing that inside the campaign they feel like Donald Trump is winning, even though he had this very messy week over the last several days and he's been trying to clean up after all of those remarks.
Just this morning he was talking about the comment that he made to "The Washington Post" over the weekend that the country may be heading towards a very major recession. Trump said at that rally in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, well, yes, I said that but I also believe that if I'm elected president there won't be a recession. So Donald Trump trying to clean up a little bit, mop up after some of the messes from last week. But, you know, he's still capable of creating some controversy. Earlier today he retweeted a video, very high-end, well-made film like video that talks about the fighting spirit inside the Trump campaign. We can show a little clip for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're at war. No one wants to admit it, but humanity is under attack. One very specific man might be all that stands between humanity and the greatest threat of our bleak existence.
IVANKA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: That man is my father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Now, Pam, that video is not even produced by the Trump campaign. It was produced by a supporter out there. But it just goes to show you, and we run into this all the time when we're out here on the campaign trail, Donald Trump supporters are very much behind this candidate despite everything that we've heard over the last week. We're not getting any indication out on the campaign trail anecdotally that they're fleeing from this GOP frontrunner. And later on this evening, it could be an interesting mix later on tonight in Milwaukee. He's going to end the day in Milwaukee. His wife, Melania Trump, will be with him. But it will be just across the street or down the street from a Bernie Sanders rally, and that could be a potentially volatile mix as we've seen a lot of Bernie Sanders' supporters showing up as protesters at Donald Trump rallies.
Pam.
BROWN: Absolutely. We will be keeping a close eye on that. Jim Acosta, thank you very much.
[14:05:02] And wins in Wisconsin would give both campaigns shots of momentum. For Cruz, this contest is crucial if he has any chance of stopping frontrunner Donald Trump short of the 1,237 delegates he needs to win the GOP nomination. So here to break down all the delegate math, CNN's Dana Bash, chief political correspondent.
Dana, I want to start, though, with this new reporting that you have. You just got a hold of a copy of that internal memo from the Trump camp that Jim just mentioned in his live shot. What does it say? Tell us.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's this one-page memo. And if you just want to get a sense of what it says, all you have to do is read the subject line, which is, digging - and I'll keep it clean for the families at home, "digging through the B.S." So that gives you a sense of what it is.
And it's from Barry Bennett, who our viewers know. He's a senior Trump adviser. And it was written to the Trump team. And the gist of it is basically trying to buck up the team after a bad week last week by saying that Trump's worst week is a creation of the media. And going through the Reuters tracking poll, which is a poll that is done every day and pulling out numbers saying that despite the narrative of the bad Trump week last week, Donald Trump is still doing well. And the memo concludes, "Donald Trump, 1, Washington establishment/media, 0." So that gives you a sense of what this is. And again, as I said, it's kind of a way to, you know, buck people up internally but the fact that it was leaked is probably not an accident. It's - it's the message that they want to get out.
BROWN: Yes, especially right ahead of the Wisconsin primary tomorrow.
BASH: Exactly. Exactly.
BROWN: There's a lot of horse trading going on behind the scenes, right, in this race to get delegates. What's going on right now?
BASH: It's just starting, but it's probably nothing compared to what we will likely see if, in fact, there is no outright Republican nominee because of - or due to the actual contest, like we're going to see in Wisconsin tomorrow. So, yes, there are all kinds of toing - all kinds of toing and froing. It's been going on for a while, Pam, within the Cruz campaign. They've had a tremendous organization really from the get go and they've been watching these contests. And not just the contests, but the delegate nominating processes that go - come after the contest, after the media and everybody is all - they've left the state. They're really focused on that. Donald Trump's campaign, especially after meeting with the RNC last week, they're kicking it into high gear as well.
But, you know, there's a lot of talk now about whether or not there will be this white knight, somebody who will potentially emerge from the convention if there is no nominee who is not currently running, and Ted Cruz in Wisconsin campaigning today had a thing or two to say about that. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know this fever pipe dream of Washington that at the convention they will parachute in some white knight who will save the Washington establishment, it is nothing less than a pipe dream. It ain't going to happen. If it did, the people would quite rightly revolt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And one of the names that has been talked about on and off is the House speaker, Paul Ryan, who, I should note, is going to be the speaker and the chair of the convention. He's going to be kind of the guy in charge of keeping the trains on track, which will not be an easy job.
The Republican National Chair Reince Priebus told CNN on Sunday, Jake Tapper, that he does not believe that Paul Ryan or anybody else who is not running for president will end up being the nominee. Now, that has changed. That could change. I have seen it change. When Paul Ryan said, no, he didn't want to be the speaker about 100 times and then, P.S., he's the speaker.
BROWN: Yes.
BASH: So that could happen. But right now the Republican chair is saying uh-uh.
BROWN: Well, anything can happen this year, if there's one thing we've learned from - from this race.
BASH: Yes, that is true.
BROWN: Dana Bash, thank you very much for that.
BASH: Thank you.
BROWN: And just ahead on this Monday, a revealing new profile on Donald Trump suggests he now wears a bulletproof vest and has a, quote, "arsenal of secrets" about Fox News. We'll discuss.
Plus, at least 22 terrorists reportedly on the run right now. Terrorists connected to the attacks in Paris and Brussels. CNN has brand new reporting on this just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:13:27] BROWN: Well, John Kasich revving in the spotlight today and the new found attention from Ted Cruz, who was on the attack with his first TV ads targeting the Ohio governor, and Donald Trump, who's calling for him to drop out. Take a listen to what Kasich said just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm dropping in, I'm not dropping out. Now, listen, here's the situation. The reason why Trump said Kasich needs to get out, I mean, think about what this guy said. He said he needs to get out because he's getting my votes. And I want to have my votes. He's - this is not fair. I thought we got out of the sandbox years ago.
No, they all want - look, they wanted me to get out for a long time. Let me - let me tell you what the situation is. Why would I get out when I'm the only person, number one, who beats Hillary in the fall?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Joining me now to discuss, John Nichols, who is political writer, national affairs correspondent for "The Nation," and associate editor for "The Capital Times" and Wisconsin grown.
Great to have you on.
JOHN NICHOLS, NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, "THE NATION": It's great to be with you.
BROWN: So - so we just heard John Kasich basically saying, too bad. He's not going anywhere. He's, quote, going to get a heck of a lot of Trump's voters. So just how devastating is his presence in this race for Trump and Cruz? Trump contends it's worse for him than for Cruz.
NICHOLS: Trump may be right. But I can tell you that John Kasich's presence in the race overall is very significant. It's significant in Wisconsin. John Kasich has run a remarkable campaign in Wisconsin. A little under the radar because there's so much attention to the Trump- Cruz fight. But John Kasich has recognized that Wisconsin locks most of its delegates in by congressional district, not by the statewide vote. And so he has targeted rural areas and certain more moderate cities, frankly, and he's done incredible things.
[14:15:22] He did - Saturday night he was watching basketball and drinking beer at the Colosseum Bar in Madison, and with a big crowd of people. Now, I am not suggesting he's going to win Wisconsin, but it is very possible he could come out with a chunk of delegates and it is also quite possible that a good many of those delegates might have gone to Donald Trump.
BROWN: So then let's just kind of hone in a little bit more on the direct impact that could have on Donald Trump versus Ted Cruz. Who has more to lose?
NICHOLS: Well, in Wisconsin, Donald Trump has the most to lose because he could well get beat in Wisconsin by Ted Cruz. Now, Ted Cruz is a very unlikely candidate for the rest of the race. Remember this. If you look at where we're going from here, to New York, to Pennsylvania, to Maryland, to Connecticut, places like that, those are not natural Ted Cruz turf. But some of them, especially Pennsylvania, that might be a pretty good place for a John Kasich.
And so if Trump is pushed back, if he is weakened in Wisconsin and this race does go forward, as long as Kasich comes out of Wisconsin with a reasonable number, as long as he looks viable, there's a real chance that the dynamic of Wisconsin could be that Ted Cruz gets a victory that he can't get any place else, that weakens Trump, but it also creates a bit of an opening not merely for all the speculation about an open convention, but also for John Kasich to begin to position himself as the momentum candidate against a Donald Trump.
BROWN: Hence why so many people are saying Wisconsin could really be a big turning point in this race.
I want to look at the Democratic side because the Bernie Sanders campaign has called it devastating if they were to lose in Wisconsin. Is it really that dramatic for Bernie Sanders? And how high are the stakes for Hillary Clinton there?
NICHOLS: Sure. The stakes are incredibly high for Bernie Sanders in Wisconsin because just as I suggested over on the Republican side, you've got this notion of a momentum candidacy. A momentum candidacy is different than a delegate candidacy. The delegate numbers are what they are and they will also be noted and analyzed. Momentum is something else altogether. It's the sense that even if you're not ahead in delegates, you keep posting wins, you keep moving forward, that people are interested in you, they're engaged with you.
For Sanders to maintain a momentum candidacy, he needs a Wisconsin win. He's got to do well in Wisconsin because that then takes him to New York, to Pennsylvania and the rest of these states.
Now, for Clinton, there's a little less at stake, but it's important because if Clinton gets beat at a level - a significant level, if she's down double digits, of course that is a hit.
BROWN: And that just keeps her in the race longer against Bernie Sanders. I have to ask you, any predictions for -
NICHOLS: Without a doubt.
BROWN: Yes. Any predictions for tomorrow in Wisconsin?
NICHOLS: Sure. My prediction for tomorrow is that Donald Trump will perhaps do a little better than some people have expected. He's working incredibly hard. I don't know that he can overtake Ted Cruz, but if he gets close that's going to be good for him. John Kasich will also get a good vote out of Wisconsin, more than some people expect. Probably take some delegates.
On the Democratic side, I think that race is - has tightened up a little bit, but it certainly looks at this point like Sanders, who's putting in incredibly intense effort in these last two days while Clinton is away, that Sanders probably is going to get that advantage. And, remember, Wisconsin has an open primary, so a lot of people may well be deciding right up till Tuesday morning which primary to vote in, whether they take a Democratic ballot or a Republican ballot. So it's a little up in the air.
BROWN: Hence this big push there today from the candidates.
John Nichols, really interesting insight from you, thank you very much.
NICHOLS: It's a pleasure to be with you.
BROWN: And up next on this Monday, there's a new report that says there's a growing list of fugitives of an ISIS-inspired terror network on the loose in Europe and now authorities there have names to go on.
Plus, any minute now, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz holding competing rallies in Wisconsin, making their last-minute pitch to voters there. We will bring them to you live.
You're watching CNN. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:24:00] BROWN: A chilling new report gives details on at least eight key members on an ISIS-inspired terror network who are on the run right now and believed to be operating in Europe. Accord to the report, these men are linked to the terror network behind the bombings that took place in Brussels last month, as well as the Paris attacks in November of last year. And CNN is now learning that police have the names of these suspects.
Let's bring in our CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson live in London for us.
So, Nic, what can you tell us about where this investigation into finding these suspects is so far? It's really alarming to think they're still operating in Europe as we speak.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And this is a big worry for European intelligence agencies. Yoni Mane (ph) is one of those on that list of eight who is a suspect, who's wanted, who is on the run. He went to Syria in the beginning of 2014 with Abaaoud, the principal organizer behind the Paris attacks. Now, that puts him in the frame of somehow being connected.
[14:25:04] Another name that we have is Najim al Hamid (ph). He was picked up by Salah Abdeslam. Of course he was the sort of fourth suicide bomber, the French national stadium in Paris for the Paris attacks. He didn't blow up his explosives. He picked up al Hamid in Germany about two months before the attack, brought him back to Brussels at that time. He's on the run. Whereabouts unknown.
So these are some of the connections. But, you know, for intelligence agencies at the moment, there was still some uncertainty. There had been reports that Yoni Mane may be dead. He may have faked his death. ISIS may have put out pictures of him appearing to be dead to try to sort of cover his tracks and give him a second lease of life, if you will. But, on the other hand, you know the assessment may finally come back that he is indeed dead. So these are the things that intelligence agencies are working with right now.
But across Europe, the fact that these eight men are out there, associated with the Paris and Brussels attacks, that's a real concern because as we saw with Salah Abdeslam, in the meantime, they can be plotting and planning other attacks that they can turn around very quickly or others in the groups can turn around very quickly if any of them get picked up, Pam.
BROWN: So there are all these different connections and it really gives you a sense that this isn't just one big group, that these are sort of multiple groups connected in various ways responsible for these attacks, right?
ROBERTSON: Sure. I mean if you sort of take a step back, which is what a Belgium journalist did about a week ago, he kind of plotted out, OK, who else connected with Abaaoud, because he's seen as a principal organizer, and a recruiter, a radical recruiter in Belgium, who's now in jail, but all the people associated with him that he inspired and then sent off to Syria, if you kind of build a couple of rings out from them, Belgium authorities have tried in absentia some of the people associated with this recruiter, some of those associated with Abaaoud, then you begin to get to a number of over 20 people potentially.
And, of course, you can build that out further. It's very hard to put a specific number on it, but the rings build out and the concern is, you know, across Europe as a whole, potentially 1,500 people have gone to join ISIS and come back, 1,500 have come back. And the problem for the intelligence agencies is literally staying on top of that. In the U.K., for example, last 18 months, seven plots have been thwarted, you know, every day. It's a stretch and a strain to deal with those additional people. Have they come back? Where are they? How do you track them? How do you have the resources to track them? So this is the concern going forward, Pam.
BROWN: And it's not just the ones they know about. What's most disturbing to these officials is what they don't know, those that are still operating that they don't know about, don't have their names.
Nic Robertson, thank you very much for that reporting, we appreciate it.
Meantime, we are getting an inside look at Donald Trump's small circle of advisers and what may be behind some of his recent comments that have him in hot water. In the cover article of "New York" magazine took a peek behind how the Trump campaign operates behind closed doors. The writer describes Trump's candidacy as the most unorthodox campaign in political history.
Let's talk more about this with CNN's senior media and politics reporter, Dylan Byers.
Dylan, thanks for coming on. Let's start with this quote from the reporter, Gabriel Sherman, who wrote the piece. And he really talked about how there's a lot of fatigue from the Donald Trump - for Donald Trump, that he's just tired, he's worn out and that's really what's behind his comments this past week. What do you know about that?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Well, look, I - of course he's worn out and you can hardly blame him for being worn out. When he got - as Gabe's article states, when he got into this race, he didn't think he was going to last that long. He thought he was going back to doing "The Apprentice" on NBC. In fact, his campaign has lasted for more than nine months throughout which he's been the frontrunner. And he's been going at an extremely rigorous pace. He's been going for, you know, six days a week. Often flying back to one of his homes in either New York or Florida, you know, in the middle of night sometimes. He gives these speeches. He gives them off the cuff.
Meanwhile, he's doing all of this with a staff that is far smaller than your average political staff for - for one of the party's frontrunners. He has less than 100 people on his payroll. Hillary Clinton has eight times that many people on her payroll. And really his core campaign is fundamentally just about 10 or 12 people. And the reason for that, of course, is because Donald Trump is his own campaign manager. Truly, he is the one who is calling the shots, making the decisions, writing the tweets, basically government how this thing is going to happen on a day to day basis and he's doing - he's doing it in large part off the cuff.
[14:30:00] BROWN: Yes. You know, in the article he said, I don't have - I don't need adviser. I'm my own adviser. And what's interesting in this article, it said that Trump has some damaging information on Fox News head Roger Ailes.
