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Trump's Unorthodox Campaign; Trump's Vision for Economy: Trump: Economy in Serious Trouble; Controversial Europe/Turkey Refuge Plan Begins. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: In the article he said, I don't need advisers, I'm my own adviser. What's interesting in this article, it said that Trump has some damaging information on FOX News head, Roger Ailes. Saying, "If Ailes ever truly wanted to war against Trump, Trump would have the arsenal to large a retaliatory strike." Does this perhaps explain why FOX News hasn't really gone after Trump harder for all his criticism of the network? What do you make of that?

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA & POLITICS REPORTER: Let's start by separating what we know from what we don't know. What we know is Donald Trump was associated -- participated in negotiation between Roger Ailes and his former communication chief who was fired. Trump helped in the negotiations because he knew both parties. Negotiations like that will make you privy to a great deal of information. As to whether Trump has this trove of damaging information he can use, that to me -- that's thinly sourced in the piece. It seems somewhat speculative. You have to ask yourself if Trump was holding this arsenal over Roger Ailes, you have to ask yourself why Roger Ailes has been so aggressive in taking on Trump in terms defending Megyn Kelly, defending the network's coverage. They really haven't shied away from issuing statements that suggest Donald Trump isn't fit to be president of the United States. If that's not the sort of thing that's going to provoke him to use this so-called arsenal, what is?

BROWN: That's true, you look at that statement, about the ayatollah, you remember that, about a month or two ago. Many people said that was pretty harsh. The reporter got a peek behind the curtain of Trump's small campaign headquarters. Even includes a so-called wall of shame. Showing all the candidates who have dropped out of the race. What does this say about Trump and his campaign what we see here?

BYERS: Well, look, it says a couple things. One, he loves winning. He truly loves winning. In fact, think one thing that article gets to is that's sort of the governing force in his life. He likes to win. By any means necessary. I think he takes great pleasure in sort of being a political hit man and taking off the competition one by one. He's done it very effectively. He's gone after one candidate at a time. He's gone after Bush for being low energy. He called him little Marco Rubio. Now going after Ted Cruz, calling him "Lying Ted." He's strategic in terms of how he goes after his opponents. He takes great pride in his ability to beat them Trump as a brand is based off the concept of winning, of success, picking off the majority of 17 political opponents. I think Trump will put that in a win under his belt, whether or not he gets the nomination for his party.

BROWN: The article talks about those in his inner circle. Most of them, if not at all, really don't have much of a political background, right, it's really fascinating to look at those he surrounds himself with.

BYERS: It's a ragtag band. It's a rogue's gallery. Yet, somehow they've proven very effective in terms of sort of carrying Donald Trump or following Donald Trump to the success he's achieved. Indeed, the people that Trump has selected, that he's surrounded himself with, they're like him. They don't have a background in politics. They do things in an unconventional way. That's been very effective. I would say the greatest strength is really following Trump's lead. Trump calls the shots. He does what he needs to do. He needs people who can really put into place his sort of vision for his campaign and who can follow him as he makes these decisions off the cuff. He has that in his campaign manager and his top spokesperson. They're very, very loyal to him. They always refer to him as Mr. Trump, never as Donald, anything like that. There's a great deal of loyalty in that small circle of advisers.

BROWN: You can really see that.

Dylan Byers, thank you. Really fascinating at Donald Trump.

Up next on this Monday, Trump on the economy. He says he will erase the national debt within eight years and claims a very massive recession is on its way into the U.S. We'll get Ben Stein's take on that.

Plus, any minute now, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz will hold competing rallies in Wisconsin. We'll bring that to you live.

You're watching CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:40] BROWN: We're learning more about Donald Trump's economic vision for the country. It is bold and grandiose but is it possible?

CNN's chief business correspondent, Christine Romans, crunches the numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, Donald Trump making some bold economic predictions and the math doesn't add up. First, he says he could pay off the national debt in eight years in office. The national debt, that's $19 trillion. Just to show you how huge that is. Every man, woman and child in $59,748 to pay it off. For Trump to erase that debt in eight years, he would first have to balance the budget so no more debt is tacked on. That would have to come from Congress, so good luck with that. Then Trump would have to pay down $3 trillion a year. The entire amount the government is spending in 2015, just less than $4 trillion. That's a lot of money. Trump says he could renegotiate trade deals, somehow balancing the trade deficits, something economists say isn't possible in eight years and could have disastrous consequences if it starts a trade war with China and Mexico. Trade wars cause recessions, lost jobs, higher deficits when tax revenue plunges.

Complicating Trump's claim, he also wants to cut tax rates. That could lower the amount of money the government brings in, making the deficit surge. In fact, many tax scorers say his tax strategy, his tax plan, would actually balloon the very deficit that adds to the debt that he says he's going to cut.

By the way, he says he won't touch entitlements, another big spending pot of money.

Pamela, the math on the national debt claims just doesn't add up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:40:17] BROWN: Christine Romans, breaking it down for us.

Donald Trump is making another bold claim that the U.S. is headed for a massive recession, another one. He first made the grim predictions in an interview with "The Washington Post." That's where Trump laid out some bold and bleak economic predictions.

Earlier today, at a campaign rally in Wisconsin, Trump repeated his weary outlook on the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I was interviewed by Bob Woodward and Bob Costas, "The Washington Post," two great reporters. And they did a story. I thought it was a pretty good story. It was pretty accurate. I don't know where they had this but somebody came out that I said we're going -- we're in a bubble, big bubble, could be a really ugly bubble. You know what this is right, bubbles. When they burst, it's not a good thing. And what I said is we're going to go into a massive recession. But I also say, if I'm president, that's not going to happen because I'm going to straighten things out before it happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's talk about this with actor, comedian and conservative commentator, Ben Stein.

Ben, thanks for coming on.

BEN STEIN, ACTOR, COMEDIAN & CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I think the main credential here is the economist. In all my years as an economist --

(CROSSTALK)

STEIN: In all of my years as an economist, which is roughly 50 years, I've never seen such nonsense as we just heard from Mr. Trump and it breaks my heart, it makes me want to cry because I'm Republican, I've never voted for a Democrat, and to think the guy who's our likely standard bearer has such nonsensical ideas of every single aspect of the economy is just breathtakingly horrible.

BROWN: Well, you know, when you look at it, though, it's politically expedient for Trump to go out there and say the economy is heading down the drain and I can fix it because it keeps his business record in the headlines. Political incentive is clear, right?

STEIN: The political incentive is clear. I guess he might as well say also men from mars are coming down. But there's just nothing factual about what he's saying. We were not in a bubble. By the way, most of these metrics are measured. The unemployment rate is not 20 percent, something he's been saying, which is just -- might as well say it's 2 million percent. Might as well count the dead as being unemployed. The idea he's going to eliminate the national debt. He might as well say he's going to flap his swings and fly. It's just unbelievable this is coming from the party's leading candidate. It's just horrifying. I don't know what to say. I'm just so flabbergasted by it I hardly know how to control myself.

BROWN: So on that note, you know, how unusual is it for a front- runner like this of a make these dramatic predictions about the economy because oftentimes you hear politicians say, you know, talk about the economy, but this takes it to a whole new level, right?

STEIN: It takes it to a whole new record of ridiculousness. Maybe we are going to have a recession, but if we are, he doesn't know. Mr. Warren Buffett doesn't know. The people who are making stock price quotes don't know. The leading economist in America doesn't know. He must know something nobody else knows. I don't know where he gets this information but maybe he's getting it from people whispering in his ear. If we are heading for a recession, he doesn't know. There's no sign we're heading for a recession and if we are, he doesn't know and there's no way he's going to be able to fix it. Cutting taxes is not going to fix it. Renegotiating trade deals with Mexico and China is just a way to start a gigantic recession. I mean, this is a very scary thing. By the way, your previous guest was saying he's tired and needs to rest. Maybe he could take a few days of rest, talk to some economists who are actually sane, and get some ideas about how the real world works. Just bouncing off the moon.

BROWN: Clearly economic forecasts don't square with what he said. He had to have known economists would come out to set the record straight. Isn't it a risky move for him to say these things then in that case?

(LAUGHTER)

STEIN: You know, I don know what goes on in his head. He's a force of nature. I don't know what goes on in his head. But it's frightening that he has no economic advisers. I look up who are his economic advisors. Carl Icahn, a very smart guy on Wall Street who's made a great deal of money; Steve Wynn who runs best hotels in Las Vegas. But as far as economic advisers, as far as I can tell, he doesn't have any, and he desperately needs some. The things he's saying are wacky, as wacky can be, just off the charts. [14:45:14] BROWN: But, Ben, let me just say this. As far as his

economist advisers, Donald Trump says he's his best adviser, particularly when it comes to the economy. But you look at the polls --

(CROSSTALK)

STEIN: That's really scary. That's really scary.

BROWN: But you look at the polls and people think that he is the best for the economy compared to the other GOP candidates. How do you explain that?

STEIN: Sheer idiocy. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: So you're calling people who are voting for him in these polls just idiots?

STEIN: No, I'm saying they're -- no, not at all. Some of my very, very best friends, some of the people I respect most in the whole world, are Trump fans. But to believe he knows anything about the future of the economy or how the economy works is just nonsense. This is a guy who's a charming guy. His ideas about defense policy are excellent. His ideas about foreign policy are excellent. His ideas about the economy are just absolutely bewilderingly foolish.

BROWN: Do you think people are conflating his business record and his success in business with his knowledge about the economy?

STEIN: I think something like that is going on. Compared with many other very wealthy people, he isn't that successful at all. He's a pauper compared with Warren Buffett and Warren Buffett has completely different ideas about the economy from Mr. Trump. I don't think there's another terribly rich person in America who has the same ideas Mr. Trump has. The fact that a person is successful in business tells you nothing whatsoever about his abilities to predict future of the economy or know how the economy works. Tells you nothing about it at all. It's a whole different deal. Making money is a whole different field from economic.

BROWN: Ben Stein, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

STEIN: My pleasure.

BROWN: Any minute now, we're expecting dueling rallies in the state of Wisconsin. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz both making a last-minute appeal to voters and both candidates attacking Governor Kasich, telling him to drop out of the race. We'll bring that to you live as they happen.

Plus, is Wisconsin a make-or-break state for Ted Cruz? What happens if he comes up short?

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:51:14] BROWN: Taking a live look here in Wisconsin. We see a group of people crowding Superior, Wisconsin, the site of the rally for Donald Trump. Any moment now we expect him to walk up to the podium. Of course, we will take that live.

In the meantime, there is fresh controversy in Europe over a controversial relocation plan for migrants. The first wave included hundreds of people. All part of a plan worked out between the European Union and Turkey, and it's aimed at reducing the influx of illegal immigrants, migrants, in Greece.

CNN international correspondent, Phil black, is at the Turkish port where the migrants were today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We watched as each of the three vessels pulled up to a wharf and end this disembarked the migrants. 202 in all. Each one escorted individually by a European official and then handed over to a Turkish official on this side before being taken ashore, being identified, fingerprints taken, going through a process of registration.

202 in all, most from Pakistan, some from Afghanistan. Two Syrians, we are told. Those from Afghanistan and other countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, their future here is less certain. They will be sent to detention centers. Then cases individually assessed. And they could be sent back to their country of origin.

For the Syrian, they will be allowed to stay here. As Turkey says, it's policy when dealing with people fleeing the Syrian conflicts. There are 2.7 million Syrians in this country.

This deal, they say, is necessary because of the backlog created in Greece. As individual European countries shut off their borders to migrants, it's created a backlog in Greek camps where there are now around 50,000 people waiting desperately not really knowing what their next step will be. The hope is that this relocation plan will take away some of that burden from Greece but also send out a very clear message. Don't come. Don't risk your life crossing the sea to try and get to Europe.

This is not a popular plan with human rights activists who say that Greece doesn't have the resources to assess all the refugee claims for asylum among the people that are already there. And they're also not happy with them being sent back to Turkey. Groups like Amnesty International say Turkey is becoming an increasingly intolerant place for Syrian refugees. Turkey insists it will do all it can to help the people seeking refuge and help those, especially those fleeing the Syrian conflict.

Phil Black, CNN, Dikili, Turkey. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Any minute now, Ted Cruz will step out on to the stage at a dueling rally in Wisconsin. It is a dueling rally and, of course, against his fiercest rival, Donald Trump.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is there.

Sunlen, what are we expecting to hear?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pamela. We're here at the Cheese Castle in Kenosha, Wisconsin, where we expect Senator Cruz to arrive any moment. Probably sample some cheese and speak to supporters who are here to see him.

But it's been interesting to see how much confidence Senator Cruz has really been projecting as he campaigned here in Wisconsin. Earlier this morning, in Madison, he predicted an outright win tomorrow night in the primary. Saying right now it's an all hands on deck situation. Not necessarily all about the win but making sure they win as many delegates as possible. Certainly as he campaigns here, it's been interesting, really try to cast this as a defining moment. Telling voters point blank this is essentially a turning point and the message they send here tomorrow night to voters will really resonate across the country. So, trying to turn this into not only a collection of delegates but a collection of momentum.

[14:55:09] Also Senator Cruz, in addition to targeting Trump, has really been going after John Kasich. This is an interesting shift in strategy we've seen from their campaign. Releasing their first negative TV ad against John Kasich over the weekend running here in Wisconsin. Certainly, a concern at some level from the Cruz campaign. Also arguing that John Kasich certainly does not deserve to be on that ballot if this goes through a contested convention -- Pam?

BROWN: Sunlen, thank you very much. We'll check back in with you Wisconsin.

Coming up, things are getting pretty nasty on the Democratic side. Bernie Sanders looking to keep momentum on his side with a big win in Wisconsin. But storm clouds already forming over the battle for New York and the prospect for a debate in the heart of Brooklyn.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:13] BROWN: Top of the hour.