Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Ted Cruz Needs Win Wisconsin; New Updates on Amtrak Incident; Donald Trump Says He Could Wipe Out America's Debt in Eight Years; Revealing New Profile on Donald Trump and His Inner Circle. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:31:48] PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: You heard from Trump moments ago. Here's Ted Cruz in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The people of Wisconsin examining the candidates and looking at our records and looking at the solutions we have. It's one thing to yell and scream and curse. But I think the people of Wisconsin are saying do you have an answer, do you have an answer to the problems. One of the reasons Donald Trump is now afraid to debate. He is skipping debates is he is terrified. He is terrified to actually be asked a question about do you have any solutions. He can talk about jobs but he is no answer to how to bring jobs back to America.

I am running on a campaign of reducing the burdens of Washington. Taking the boot of Washington off the necks and backs of small businesses. Repealing Obamacare, passing a simple flat tax, pulling back the regulations, stopping amnesty. And the effect of all of that is going to be to bring millions and millions of high-paying jobs back to America. Back from China. Back from Mexico. To bring manufacturing jobs back to the state of Wisconsin. And I think the energy, the enthusiasm, because the momentum we are saying is a result the of the fact that people of this state, of the country, are looking for real positive solutions, not simply someone to yell and scream and curse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how do you build on that after tomorrow?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Ted Cruz there in Wisconsin. He is holding dueling rally, Donald Trump as well there holding a rally. And to most, primary in Wisconsin could be a game changer depending on how the vote shakes out. And the delegates are distributed. It could have serious implications for all the presidential candidates going forward as they fight for the nomination. That's especially true for the Republicans, 42 delegates are up for grabs in Wisconsin. And it's a heated battle.

Let's discuss this delegate battle. Joining me now, CNN's Phil Mattingly and Republican strategist Susan del Percio. Thank you both for coming on.

Phil, first to you and the Republicans. Does Ted Cruz need to win big in Wisconsin to close the gap on Trump?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that the Cruz campaign would acknowledge that Wisconsin is a huge state for them. And what they have seen over the last week in terms of their numbers which has started to open up a lead over Donald Trump really bodes well going into tomorrow.

I think the most interesting thing here is Ted Cruz winning Wisconsin doesn't stop Donald Trump. It doesn't even take a huge debt out of the delegate lead that he currently holds. But what it does do is kind of gives hope to the never Trump, stop Trump movement. The establishment has started to coalesce behind Ted Cruz. Now Ted Cruz needs to perform and prove them right in that decision. Forty two delegates isn't a lot particularly because it is not a winner take all state. But Ted Cruz performing well in Wisconsin tomorrow really sets him up going forward as the true alternative to Donald Trump, Pam.

BROWN: And Ted Cruz isn't the only one that Donald Trump's focused on, Susan. We just heard him not long ago asking for John Kasich to drop out of the race, calling for him to drop out. How much of a threat is John Kasich in preventing Donald Trump for getting the delegates he needs to clinch the nomination?

SUSAN DEL PERCIO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, there are several states going forward that John Kasich will get a certain amount of delegates. It won't be much. He's not going to be competitive in the delegate count. But as Phil was mentioning, it's about stopping Trump from getting 1,237. So every vote, every delegate you get, even if it's in New York, if 20 delegates are taken away from Donald Trump, he doesn't hit 50 percent, that becomes significant.

And Donald -- excuse me, John Kasich is a threat to both Donald Trump and Ted Cruz because if you go into that convention in July and it's an open convention and no one gets there on the first or second ballot, John Kasich can very well become the consensus candidate.

[15:35:26] BROWN: Let's talk about the convention, Phil, because Ted Cruz says there will only be two names on the ballot during the convention. But the RNC decides that, no one else, right?

MATTINGLY: The rules committee going into the convention will decide those rules. And what Ted Cruz is sighting right now is a specific rule from 2012 that set a threshold. You have to have more than 58 percent in eight states in order to be the nominee. Now this was specifically crafted to benefit Mitt Romney, kind hurt Rand Paul in 2012.

But the reality is the rules reset every four years. Now, Ted Cruz, his positioned here is this. He and Donald Trump will own a large portion of the delegates going into Cleveland, even if John Kasich is still around. They will likely control the majority of the rules committee and therefore they will put that rule back into place pushing John Kasich out. Kasich's team working hard against that. Hoping to at least position themselves into a second or third ballot.

But Pam, I think what this shows right now is behind the scenes, while Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are going at it publicly, they will be working to keep John Kasich out of this if they can possibly get it done.

BROWN: And you are seeing those calls publicly like you said. There's a lot going on behind the scenes.

Phil Mattingly, Susan del Percio, thank you very much for that.

And up next on this Monday, why were two Amtrak maintenance workers working on an active track when a passenger train struck and killed them both? What happened here? That story up next.

And Donald Trump has a small inner circle of trusted advisers but can that inner circle be shrinking? We'll discuss. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:17] BROWN: Amtrak made a quote "colossal mistake" that led to a deadly crash in Pennsylvania. A source close to the federal investigation tells CNN two construction workers were using a backhoe on the wrong track when the passenger train slammed into them, killing them.

Our Sara Ganim joins me now from Trainer, Pennsylvania. Sara, how did this mistake happen?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Pamela. That's what investigators are trying to figure out. How these two workers ended up on the wrong track, on an active track, when Amtrak 89 came through this stretch of rail track behind me. They're looking at how this mistake was made. There's a 12-step process for how construction workers are supposed to end up where they are each time they're doing construction work. And clearly there was a mistake somewhere in there yesterday morning when this collision happened.

You can see from the pictures of that train the engine, the force of that impact was enormous. It actually lifted that engine off of the tracks, derailed that front car. And passengers who we spoke to described a very frightening experience. One passenger telling CNN he could tell something was wrong before the impact happened. He could see a cloud of smoke outside of his window and said it felt like they were riding on gravel.

Now, as we await more details of the investigation, we do know that autopsies are being done as we speak. We are hoping for the identification of those two workers later today. But we do know from a local congressman, Robert Brady, that they were veteran workers. Veteran maintenance workers doing their regularly scheduled Sunday maintenance. He said that one of them had 40 years of experience. Another one about 20 years of experience. And he guessed there must have been something in the scheduling, in the dispatching, that went very, very wrong, Pamela. BROWN: A 12-step process and this still happened.

Sara Ganim, thank you very much for bringing us that reporting.

And meantime, Donald Trump says he could wipe out America's debt in eight years. An idea many economists are calling wild. Next, legendary journalist Carl Bernstein says he knows why Trump is resonating.

Plus, is the Republican front-runner holding secrets about FOX News? The new report that is raising a lot of eyebrows.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:43] BROWN: From the political system to medical care, education, to banking, even basic infrastructure. As far as Donald Trump is concerned, nothing in America works anymore. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It shows how broken the system is.

Because our leaders are stupid. Our politicians are stupid.

A total disaster. We can't let it continue.

I would like to see a private system without the artificial lines around every state.

We spend far more pure pupil than any other country in the world. By far, it is not even a close second.

Why should they when the stupid leaders of the United States will do it for them and that's what's happening, whether you like it or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, so experts of many of these bills would beg to differ but there is no doubt Trump's litany of complaints is resonating. Why?

Carl Bernstein, CNN political commentator and author of "a woman in charge," the life of Hillary Rodham Clinton, joins me now to discuss this.

So Carl, let's just start on the economy for instance. Donald Trump says we're headed for another recession. But data says otherwise. Low unemployment, stock market humming along. Why are voters buying what Trump is selling? When you look at the poll, voters say Trump is well equip to handle the economy.

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think they are buying it anymore. I think that they were on the verge of it in much larger numbers. But now we are beginning to see the implosion of the Trump campaign because of his misogyny, because of his demagoguery, because of his ignorance in terms of the issues in a deeper sense than mere slogans. But was he on the verge of enlarging that? Yes, but not now I think.

BROWN: But when it comes to business, he does have a proven record, many would say. And then he is trying to tackle these other issues that we saw in that video -- improving education, Veterans health care and so forth. Why do voters think Trump can make a difference in those areas? These are issues politicians have been tackling for decades.

BERNSTEIN: Some voters, I wouldn't generalize too much. I think that that what he was on the verge of doing was presenting a message that says, look, let's face facts. Our institutions in this country are not working, not education, not transportation, not our medical care and on and on.

Well, he's not wrong about some of those things. But what we have seen instead is his own inability to present a coherent message. His own neo fascist tendencies in term also of authoritarianism, not (INAUDIBLE) genocidal inclinations, but rather, me, me, me the self, the big authoritarian leader who will make everything all right without any faith in democratic institutions and the misogyny shown toward women in the last couple of weeks I think is beginning to totally undermine his campaign beyond the base

[15:50:37] BROWN: It's yet to be seen, though, and he is still doing well in the polls. He is still the front-runner. But I want to point out too, I mean, clearly you have some strong words for Donald Trump, but you have also said that he has done some good in the area of highlighting the broken political system, right?

BERNSTEIN: I don't think it's about whether he has done good or not, I think he has identified some real truths about some elements of the system that aren't working. But has he thought through the issues enough to provide solutions? No, he has not. And then you mentioned, for instance, his own business record. I think we're starting to see a kind of scrutiny in the press that puts some real question marks about his own business record.

What he has been trying to do is get enough delegates to win before the convention. And now it looks if he loses Wisconsin that he might well not be able to do that. Why? Because of his own failures in these last couple weeks.

BROWN: So, Carl, something remarkable happened this past weekend. And Donald Trump admitted he made a mistake after retweeting the picture of Heidi Cruz, Ted Cruz's wife. What do you make of that?

BERNSTEIN: I make of it the outcry was so loud that even he recognized -

BROWN: But the outsider has been loud for other controversies, why this one?

BERNSTEIN: I think there has been a cumulative effect of the last couple of weeks. The KKK remarks, Heidi Cruz, all kinds of questions. The economy, the interview with "the Washington Post" with my friend Bob Woodward which did not make much sense in terms of policy provisions.

I think that as he was on the verge of breaking through towards a majority of delegates, now he is getting a second look because of his shallowness, ignorance and authoritarianism that is bringing him up short. You know, you heard me say from the summer on, I have always thought this would be a deadlocked convention and to Paul Ryan might well be the nominee. I still think that is a somewhat likely scenario.

BROWN: Even though Reince Priebus has said that's not going to happen most likely?

BERNSTEIN: I think that if Trump cannot get a majority going on, I suspect there will be a draft on another ballot of a different candidate, not Cruz, not Kasich, and Ryan is a very likely one, a kind of consensus. I thought that all along, as you know, from what I have said on the air here.

BROWN: We'll see what happens.

Carl Bernstein, thank you very much. So great to have you on.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.

BROWN: And up next right here in the NEWSROOM, a revealing new profile on Donald Trump and his inner circle, including his wall of shame and bulletproof vest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:57:28] BROWN: As Donald Trump's campaign gets closer to a possible Republican presidential nomination, it appears his campaign's already small inner circle is shrinking. There are reports now that his controversial campaign manager's role is being scaled back and a 20-something year old political novice is running things behind the scenes.

Let's talk about this with CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter. He is also the host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," of course.

So Brian, what more do we know about this report that Donald Trump has arsenal of secrets that he could use against Roger Ailes, the head of FOX News?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: This is one of the biggest surprises in this "New York" magazine cover story out today by Gabriel Sherman (ph). He has been closely covering FOX New for years. And he reports that Trump was actually the mediator in a dispute between Roger Ailes, the powerful head of FOX News, and his former PR head. So this guy, Brian Lewis, was Roger Ailes right-hand man for a number of years. But when they had a falling out, when Lewis was fired, he hired a lawyer and it turns out that lawyer had a connection to Trump. So Trump was called in to basically mediate this feud or this severance negotiation between Brian Lewis and the head of FOX News.

What's interesting is that Lewis allegedly had lots of secrets he was going to spill about FOX. He agreed not to because he signed a deal and he was paid and now he has no comment on this. But the idea here is that maybe Trump knows what was in this deal because Trump was the negotiator. It is all very intriguing because it shows Trump's cozy connections to media executives, like the head of FOX News.

BROWN: Very interesting. I have to ask you about in the report about Trump wearing a bulletproof vest and making senior staff at the White House sign nondisclosure agreements. What more do we know about that?

STELTER: You know, this idea that if he becomes president, he will have senior staffers in the White House sign nondisclosure agreements came up in an interview with "the Washington Post" over the weekend. It's something we have not heard before, not with the Obama administration, not with Bush or any others before. But this shows how Trump brings a corporate sensibility to his running for president.

I thought the most revealing detail in the "New York" mag story is that Trump has only 94 people on his election -- on his campaign payroll. He has a core staff of about a dozen and then 94 total. Hillary Clinton's campaign has over 700. That in a nutshell explains the difference between Trump's campaign and all the others. If it works, that's miraculous. If it doesn't work, maybe one of the reasons why his campaign will end up not succeeding is because he has a relatively small number of staffers. We will see, of course, in the weeks and months to come.

BROWN: Of course he says I don't need all these staffers, I can be my own advisor.

Brian Stelter, thank you very much for that.

STELTER: Thanks.

BROWN: And "The LEAD with Jake Tapper" starts right now.

[16:00:00] JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Pamela.

Will Donald Trump trade his make America great hack again for a -- ?