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Migrants Being Sent Back to Turkey From Greece; Armenia- Azerbaijan Ceasefire Collapsing?; Presidential Candidates Stump for Wisconsin Delegates' Memorial Services is Pakistan; U.K. De- radicalization Programs Help Convicted Jihadists Reintegrate; 80th Master's Tees Off Thursday. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired April 04, 2016 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:10] ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour, day one of a controversial new deal aimed at combating the refugee and migrant crisis. People are being loaded onto boats in Greece and taken back to Turkey.
Plus, some reason for hope after long-running territorial dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan erupts into deadly violence.
And with U.S. presidential candidates crisscrossing the next important battleground, comments from Donald Trump are once again raising eyebrows.
Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Isha Sesay. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.
Hundreds of migrants and refugees in Greece are now on their way back to Turkey. We've been seeing buses arrive at the port on the Greek island of Lesbos and people being guided to ships that will take them back to the Turkish coast.
You are looking at live pictures there now from Greece. And as all of this plays out, it's part of a controversial deal between the European Union and Turkey, aimed at stemming the huge influx of migrants and refugees into Europe.
Well, the first boat carrying the migrants has now left the port. CNN's Erin McLaughlin is there in Lesbos and joins us now.
Erin, what can you tell us about the process and how it's unfolding?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isha, all three boats now have left for Turkey. The deportation began in the small hours of the morning under the cloak of darkness and near a detention center -- or in a detention center, rather, not far from here. Buses arrived. Migrants were loaded on to the buses and then under police escort came to the port to be loaded onto these three Turkish ships back to Turkey.
Now it's unclear at this time the nationalities of the individuals that were loaded onto those boats. Also unclear why they were chosen. But an EU official had previously told CNN that the expectation for today was that some 250 people would be loaded onto boats and returned to Turkey here from this island and then another 250 from the Greek island of Chios, which is not far from here. Excuse me. And that this process would be repeated every day for the next three days. So until about Wednesday.
It's interesting to note, though, that as the buses were arriving here at the port, we saw the coast guard arrive with a boat full of migrants, rubber dinghy in tow, migrants arriving to Greece. And that really gets to the crux of whether or not this deal will work between EU and Turkey. It's meant to serve as a deterrent, to send a message to would-be migrants in Turkey not to risk their lives and their treasure to make the perilous crossing here to Greece. And it really hinges on this being an effective deterrent. But as we saw this morning, more migrants arriving.
Now in the days leading up to today, the migrant numbers -- migrant arrival numbers have dropped. Authorities aren't sure why. They say it could be because of the weather. They say it also could be the migrants in Turkey are simply waiting to see how this all plays out.
SESAY: And, Erin, as we look at the pictures from a short time ago, everything seems -- they seem pretty orderly, although the pictures right now we're showing on our screens are, indeed, live. But for a short time when we were seeing people board boats, everything seemed pretty orderly, everything seemed relatively calm. How would you describe the atmosphere? Have you heard any reports of any kinds of resistance, any kind of problems?
MCLAUGHLIN: We didn't see any sort of resistance, any sort of problems. No indication that at least on this island. But what we have seen, Isha, is plenty of despair. We were actually at the detention center last night. They aren't allowing journalists into the detention center at this point, but we were able to speak to some of the migrants through the fence.
The migrants were telling us that they're from Bangladesh, they're from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Syria, and that they were extremely worried and alarmed at the prospect of being sent back to Turkey, some questioning whether or not Turkey is safe enough for them. Also complaining about the general situation in the camp, the fact that they were being held in these detention centers. They were complaining about the conditions. Very, very concerned. But at the same time, peaceful.
And today so far here on this island, peaceful. Though there were the presence of riot police. Now last week in the Greek island of Chios, which is not far from here, some migrant groups in that detention center clashed and managed to break out of the detention center, running to the island's port.
[01:05:13] Last night, according to local media reports, the police went out and tried to get the migrants that were still at the port in Chios back to the detention center and were met with resistance not from the migrants, but from the locals, who were looking to protect the migrants from the police. So it really sort of illustrates just how emotional this process is, how worried not just the migrants are but the locals here as well. They've become in some ways very close -- some of the locals have become very close to these migrants.
SESAY: Erin, you mentioned concerns on the part of migrants and the refugees about going back to Turkey. What do we know of the arrangements in place in Turkey for those who are returned?
MCLAUGHLIN: We know that for today's arrivals, Turkish authorities have been making arrangements. There's a number of tents, some medical facilities waiting for them when they arrive back in Turkey. They are expected to be taken to another area in Turkey about an hour away from the port. But that is very much a key question just in terms of the quality of life that these migrants will have in Turkey, that many aid organizations are asking such as Amnesty International, questioning whether or not Turkey is a safe third country, questioning whether or not these migrants will have the proper infrastructure, the proper support that they need when they get there given the situations that some of these migrants have been through.
SESAY: All right. Erin McLaughlin joining us there from Lesbos in Greece.
Erin, appreciate the reporting. Thank you so much.
Well, here are key points of the deal between the EU and Turkey on handling refugees. Turkey will now take back all migrant refugees who arrived in Greece from Turkey without asylum status. The EU will resettle one Syrian asylum seeker from Turkey for every Syrian returned to the country. The EU will also speed up payment of some $3.3 billion already promised to Turkey to help deal with this crisis. And the EU will waive visa requirements for Turkish citizens by the end of June. Both sides will also continue to negotiate Turkey's possible accession to the EU.
Well, Suat Kiniklioglu is the executive director for the Center for Strategic Communication. That's a think tank based in Ankara, Turkey. He joins us now from the Turkish capital.
Suat, thank you so much for joining us. Many in the humanitarian community are critical of the deal the EU struck with Turkey. What's your view of the arrangement?
SUAT KINIKLIOGLU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE CENTER FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION: Well, there's no doubt that if you look from a legal perspective or from the judicial dimension of conventions dealing with refugees, asylum status, et cetera, there is a problem. However, we also need to acknowledge there is an extraordinary situation here at hand. And this has been a practical deal between the European Union and Turkey. It remains to be seen how the returning refugees from the Greek islands will be treated and will be sent back to their country of origins and whether they will be accepted there or not.
So there is still a lot to be seen both from a humanitarian perspective and also from a political perspective. But there's no doubt that this deal is the reflection of an extraordinary development that may not fit all of the humanitarian aspects or judicial aspects of the conventions ruling and governing refugees. But what will really be determining both the Turkish and European
attitude is really the main item in this deal, which is free visa travel for Turkish citizens in European countries. If the European Union will fail to deliver on that, there could be rather strong reactions here from Turkey, putting an end to the deal that we have at hand today.
SESAY: So, Suat, Amnesty's director for Europe and Central Asia has gone as far as saying that Turkey is not a safe country for refugees. And in the recent Amnesty report, the group expressed fears that some would be deported back to Syria, which you have already cited.
Is Turkey violating the human rights of Syrian refugees?
KINIKLIOGLU: I don't agree that Turkey is not a safe country for refugees. I think Turkey has been safe, and Turkey has hosted more than three million refugees for quite some time now.
[01:10:05] The question that is whether Syrian refugees will be sent back to Syria and whether they would be safe there is one that is serious and that needs to be looked upon. There have been reports in the last -- throughout the last month that some refugees were rounded up, Syrian refugees, and sent back to Syria. We haven't heard of any negative repercussions back there. As you know, the situation on the northern side of -- northern part of Syria is rather volatile and being controlled by different components in Syria.
But if we end up, as Amnesty claims, that maybe hundreds and thousands of Syrians will be sent back to Syria, then we have a problem at hand. But that has not happened yet, so we will have to see. As I said, I do not agree that Turkey is not a safe country for refugees. At the moment, it is rather safe.
SESAY: You know, it has been said that this is the wrong way to do a deal. I mean, you point out it's an extraordinary situation for Europe that they're facing. But incentivizing the return of people which may, some have pointed out, create a situation where people's asylum applications are not being properly considered. People say this is just a recipe for disaster.
KINIKLIOGLU: They may be right because according to, you know, these conventions, each application needs to be assessed one by one, both in Europe and back here. That does not seem to be the case, so we probably will see hundreds and thousands of people being sent back on a daily basis.
What will really matter is what will happen to these people if Turkey will choose to send non-Syrians back to their country of origin, and that's of course a humanitarian concern that needs to be watched. I'm hoping that Turkish authorities have calculated that properly when they were signing the deal.
SESAY: The long-term solution to this crisis, this Syrian refugee crisis at least, is obviously ending the conflict in Syria. When you look at the situation on the ground right now, these ongoing negotiations in Geneva, do you see a realistic pathway to ending this conflict in the near future?
KINIKLIOGLU: Well, the last month or so has been relatively quiet and encouraging. We know that the United States and the Russians are working on finding a political process that could end the conflict. We also know that Turkey is keen of establishing a safe zone for Syrians in northern Syria, and I think part of the question is whether some of these refugees who will be sent back to Syria -- who are likely to be sent back to Syria, might be seen as part of that safe zone.
However, this conflict has festered and ruined the whole neighborhood, the whole region. It's a big problem. I think the refugee crisis has reminded now also Europeans and Americans that a quick solution is needed, but I would be very cautious about a political process that would work quickly and well for all sides. It's been a war that has now involved many external actors, security agencies, intelligence. So it's quite complicated with still a lot of room for volatility and new conflicts emerging, including the question of ISIS.
I mean, ISIS has still not been fully dealt with yet. ISIS is losing territory in Syria and in Iraq. There are preparations to take over -- or re-take Raqqa and Mosul. However, even if that would happen, still a future political arrangement that would work for all sides and prevent future conflict is still not worked out yet. It remains to be seen how both external and internal actors will behave in the coming weeks and months for a point where we can say that a political solution has been found.
SESAY: Yes. It remains to be seen. All the while ordinary Syrians suffer.
Suat Kiniklioglu, we appreciate your time today. Thank you for the insight and perspective. Thank you.
KINIKLIOGLU: Thank you for having me.
SESAY: Well, for information on what you can do to help, please visit our "Impact Your World" page. And there you will find links to vetted organizations that are helping those affected by the crisis. That's all at CNN.com/impact.
[01:15:01] Azerbaijan says it will stop fighting Armenian troops after a long-running territorial dispute heated up again. A unilateral cease fire was declared Sunday, but reports from Armenia says Azerbaijan is still firing artillery.
Becky Anderson has more on the renewed hostilities.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A decades-long conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia flares again over the past couple of days.
Heavy fighting in the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region has left dozens dead as deep tensions tipped to military escalation. An Azeri helicopter shot down. An Armenian drone, six tanks and 15 artillery pieces destroyed. Both sides accuse each other of breaking a ceasefire that have brought calm to the region for years.
DAVID BABAYAN, SPOKESMAN, ARMENIA-KARABAKH SEPARATISTS: It was their violation of the ceasefire regime, the international law, international humanitarian law and the Geneva Conventions. What they have officially done was -- was a manifestation of terrorism and Armenian policy.
ANDERSON: But Azeri Foreign Ministry says Armenia is to blame, quote, "Armenian armed forces shelled the settlements near the frontline where civilians closely live. The acts intentionally committed by the Armenian side killed and injured several civilians, damaged personal property. As an aggressive country, Armenia bears responsibility for the current situation," end quote.
It's a region that's been in dispute for years. The Nagorno-Karabakh is a land locked, surrounded and claimed by Azerbaijan, but it's controlled by ethnic Armenians, who are backed military and financially by Armenia.
A fragile 1994 ceasefire ended in armed conflict that had lasted six years, leaving tens of thousands dead. Sporadic fighting is marred the truce ever since. Calls to stop the violence came swiftly amid fears it could quickly escalate. The U.S. and Russia have called for restraint. And closer to the region, Iran, an ally of Armenia, and Turkey, a close supporter of Azerbaijan, have both pushed for a diplomatic solution. Calls that, if not heeded, could potentially open up another proxy war with deadly consequences for the region.
Becky Anderson, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Time for a quick break now. Pakistan is mourning the victims of last week's Easter bombing, an attack that targeted Christians.
Our Saima Mohsin investigates the challenges of practicing the religion in Pakistan. That's coming up.
Plus Donald Trump has a demand for one of his Republican rivals in the race for the White House. Quit now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(SPORTS)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:21:51] SESAY: Well, in just one day, voters in the U.S. state of Wisconsin will cast ballots in the presidential primary. The Republican frontrunner Donald Trump is stumping hard there. He's ahead in the national delegate count, but there's no guarantee he'll clinch all the delegates he needs to win there. Trump's latest tactic, calling for third-place Republican candidate John Kasich to pull out of the race. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kasich is now one for 30. Is it one for 30 or one for 29? He's one for 30. It's good if he gets out. I don't want him in. I don't want him in. Why are you in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well, Dylan Byers is CNN senior media politics. He's here to try and make sense of it all. Good luck with that.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. Thank you.
SESAY: Yes. Donald Trump, he's actually tag-teaming with Ted Cruz, all of them saying get out of the race, Kasich.
BYERS: Right.
SESAY: I want you to listen to what the man himself has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's two strong things I have going for me. Number one, I beat Hillary Clinton in virtually every poll. I'm the only one that does it on the Republican side. Secondly, when they look at the record, when they look at the record of job growth, the record of international foreign policy knowledge and experience, I believe that a convention will look at somebody like me, and that's why I think I'm going to be the nominee. We just have to keep going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: He's trying so hard with this argument, but it's not gaining traction.
BYERS: No, it's not gaining any traction. I think in order to gain traction, you have to win a state other than your home state.
SESAY: Fair point.
BYERS: But, look, his belief was all of the other horses that the Republican establishment could possibly have bet on are gone, and here I am. And I've actually won my home state, which is something that Marco Rubio couldn't do or Jeb Bush couldn't do because he wasn't even in the running.
SESAY: They're not in the race anymore.
BYERS: But they're not in the race anymore. And saying, look, once people get off -- once people get tired with the circus that is Donald Trump, they will gravitate back toward me. That is -- it's not an argument that -- you know, I get that argument, but it's an argument that seems to be tone deaf to what Republican voters have been telling people over and over. You look at both Trump and Cruz urging Kasich to drop out of the race.
It seems to me like that has to benefit Ted Cruz, not necessarily because Kasich voters would like Ted Cruz, but because they really fundamentally don't want Donald Trump, and it's better to dance with the devil they know, which is Ted Cruz, than with Donald Trump, who's the devil they don't know.
SESAY: Speaking of the circus, "Saturday Night Live" weighed in on Donald Trump, and I want you to take a look at this clip because it really does sum up everything that has, you know, some Republicans throwing their hands up in despair and say look at what is happening to us. Take a look at this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course Donald loves women. He is a father to a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, we actually have a clip of Donald talking about his daughter from a rally this morning. Let's watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just got to say, isn't my daughter, Ivanka, the best? She's so smart, so talented, and what a rack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[01:25:05] SESAY: "Saturday Night Live," you know. Summing up issues with women and just --
BYERS: Well, and honestly giving -- I mean, this whole campaign is like a cake walk for "Saturday Night Live."
SESAY: Yes.
BYERS: I mean, they don't even need to write the material. Right? It's already been sort of handed to them on a silver platter. And yet somehow, you know, you have Trump surrogates coming on CNN who don't sound terribly different from what the impersonation was. You have Trump saying the things that he's said that aren't totally off the mark from what "Saturday Night Live" is characterizing, and yet that has never hurt him.
SESAY: Yes.
BYERS: It's never hurt him with his core base of supporters. What's really interesting, though, what's happening this week, we're seeing this whole narrative about, is this the turning point for Trump? You know, he seems to be really -- we're taking a bigger look at all of the negative approval ratings that he has with so many minority groups. You know, he's been saying things like this for nine months.
SESAY: Yes.
BYERS: Why is it only now? Why is it, you know, the specific comments that have come out in the last week, the abortion comments, the comments about the Geneva Conventions, why is it only now the turning point is happening?
SESAY: It's a very, very good question, and we shall see. You know, we already know that Cruz is leading in Wisconsin. The question is, what happens after this moment? What happens to Trump's momentum?
I want to switch gears and talk about the Democrats because there's a lot of gamesmanship going on about this debate, about the debate ahead of the New York primaries. Take a listen to both candidates as they spoke on the Sunday shows.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Doing it during the NCAA finals or whatever makes no sense. Doing it in the morning when people are going to -- not going to be watching it in large numbers makes no sense. But I'm confident we'll work out a time that's good for both of our schedules and when large numbers of people will be watching.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm confident that there will be, but I'm not -- I'm not the one negotiating it. That's going on between our campaigns, and I do know my campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders' campaign would agree with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Conventional wisdom would say Hillary Clinton has more to lose from this debate than Bernie Sanders. How do you see it?
BYERS: Well, from Hillary Clinton's perspective, the question you're always asking yourself is have we reached a point in this campaign where we can afford to try and marginalize Bernie Sanders? Can we pivot towards the general election? And therefore is it worth having a debate with Bernie Sanders? Because if we do we're only elevating him and sort of carrying him a little bit farther down the line.
Meanwhile, I will say this. For all the talk that the Bernie Sanders campaign does about really wanting these debates, I actually think that they are able to generate support among their base by creating this narrative that Hillary Clinton doesn't want to face Bernie Sanders.
SESAY: She's avoiding him.
BYERS: I think if you go back and you look at the debates, Hillary Clinton has done fine in all of these debates. I mean, fundamentally she won the first debate, and after that, the debates haven't really drastically moved the needle for either candidate. I think they're -- Hillary Clinton Democrats, pragmatists, there are Bernie Sanders Democrats, more idealists, who really love the sort of bold ideas he's taking.
And I don't -- you know, I think right now what we're talking about is an issue of stage craft and theatrics. And look, I think it doesn't benefit Hillary Clinton to be on the stage with Bernie Sanders unless it becomes such a big issue that she needs to do it. And I wouldn't be surprised if we see at least one more debate.
SESAY: We shall see. I believe that there are two more in the offing. We shall see what happens.
Dylan Byers, thank you for spending your Sunday with us.
BYERS: Thank you for having me.
SESAY: Thank you.
All right. We'll take a quick break now. And a recent terrorist act in Pakistan is highlighting the danger of being a Christian there. Coming up, we'll take you inside a small Christian community that says it feels isolated and ignored.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:32:14] SESAY: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.
The headlines this hour --
(HEADLINES)
SESAY: Memorial services have been held in churches across Pakistan one week after an Easter bombing at a crowded amusement park. More than 70 people were killed, and hundreds wounded. A splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility, saying it was targeting Christians. The attack highlights just how dangerous it can be to practice Christianity in Pakistan.
CNN's Saima Mohsin joins us live from the Sacred Heart Cathedral of Lahore -- Saima?
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you're Christian, if you're any religious minority in Pakistan, you can't be president or prime minister. I went to find out what it's like to be Christian in Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOHSIN: Gunmen guarding the church. I meet Pastor Shakeel Anjum and he say it's strange to see gunmen outside a place of worship.
"We have 20 to guard us on a Sunday," he says.
This is the most densely populated Christian area in Pakistan. It was attacked last year.
Inside, the Free Church School, there are usually 40 children in this class, but many are too scared to attend since the Lahore park bombing. Pastor Shakeel has buried six of his flock in one day.
SHAKEEL ANJUM, PASTOR, SACRED HEART CATHEDRAL (through translation): Our people are very poor. They can't afford the time to protest the attack. We really need the support of Muslims of Pakistan and the government. As Christians, we love and pray for Pakistan.
MOHSIN: In a national address, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said each and every drop of blood is being counted. The score will be settled. It's being settled apparently by the military and police in raids on terrorist hideouts across the country.
CECIL CHOUDRY, MINORITY RIGHTS WORKER: What about the beast within us? What about the beast that is within our houses and our society? If we do not address those problems, this military operation will be a waste.
[01:35:10] MOHSIN: Minority rights worker, Cecil Choudhry, has said successive governments have made space for extremists. The roots of the radicalization of Pakistan are in its various laws.
CHOUDHRY: When you exclude the religious minorities from your textbooks, when you start putting material letters bias towards or discriminatory to other faiths, how will they respect minorities when they grow up.
MOHSIN: Cecil's father, a decorated war veteran and pilot in two wars, have been removed from the history books.
And this ad clearly says it's looking for non Muslims to clean toilets. The ad was later retracted but exposed the institutionalized discrimination.
We found the Christian community feels isolated and neglected.
"My husband is a day laborer but doesn't find work. I only get cleaning jobs."
"It's clear our area is neglected because we are Christians. No roads or pavements."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): How can we live here? We are under attack?
MOHSIN: Blasphemy law has often been manipulated to persecute minorities, including Christians. In a highly publicized case, a Christian mother of five was sentenced to death for blasphemy. The Muslim governor of Punjab called for the death penalty to be revoked. He was gunned down by his own guard.
At Sunday's service, a special song praying not just for Christians but for citizens of all faiths in Pakistan, we should be seen as equals in the eyes of the state.
(SINGING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MOHSIN: Isha, very few people came to church this Sunday, much less than normal according to the priest that we spoke to. There are many churches around the city. And it's not just the written community. Many have come under attack. I spoke to one Muslim man who said he feels like a minority within Pakistan because if you're not the right sect of Islam, you could be attacked, too -- Isha?
SESAY: Many people deeply impacted by that Easter bombing.
Saima Mohsin joining us there from Lahore. Appreciate it, Saima. Thank you.
The U.K. has de-radicalization programs that help convicted jihadists try to reintegrate into society when they leave prison. But the man considered one of Britain's most effective de-radicalizers tells our own Nic Robertson, government funding is falling short.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CROSSTALK)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Three years ago in London --
JORDAN HORNER, MUSLIM VIGILANTE PATROL MEMBER: You're walking through a Muslim area dressed like (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You need get out of here.
ROBERTSON: -- a Muslim vigilante patrol, the threatening voice. That's Jordan Horner. Today, he says he's a changed man.
HORNER: It's something which when I was sincere to myself, I said, yes, it was something which I was regretting.
ROBERTSON: Back then, he was a Muslim radical, praised Muslim killers. He was dangerous and went to jail.
Today, he credits this man, former cage fighter and de-radicalizer, Roger, with turning him around.
HORNER: That made me understand that, you know, that the actions that I did do were not Islamic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's able to re-conceptualize things for the individuals in a way that allows them to challenge their own internal beliefs. There is a very, very select few that are actually quite effective in what they do.
ROBERTSON (on camera): Getting de-radicalizing right has never been so important. British officials estimate about 800 people have gone to join ISIS in Iraq and Syria, and about half of those have come back.
Then there's Jordan Horner and others like him, an unknown number, who radicalized and never left.
But what Roger, who I have been covering for several years, is telling me is shocking. That his scant government funding is drying up as authorities re-evaluate their programs.
(voice-over): Always working on a shoestring. He is down to his last $200 in an overdraft account. HORNER: We were doing about 70 percent of our work for free. What's
ended up happening is that even that agreement has now disappeared.
ROBERTSON: But he is still in demand. Plenty of jailed terrorists are asking for his help.
HORNER: I wanted to go after a few weeks, but I couldn't go on my own. And he says, I still have terrible nightmares, and I want you to help me.
ROBERTSON: This letter he says is from a British radical who joined ISIS in Syria, now a convicted terrorist.
[01:40:11] HORNER: We're not able to reach those individuals because there isn't an understanding there of how to deal with this phenomenon.
ROBERTSON: He is frustrated, and so is expert, Douglas Weeks. Both say most de-radicalizing programs can alienate radicals.
DOUGLAS WEEKS, JIHADIST EXPERT: What they're saying is you're wrong. And so you immediately have this kind of confrontational approach.
ROBERTSON: The British governments prevent de-radicalization strategy details hundreds of people who have been helped through education, criminal justice, faith, charities, online and health approaches to de-radicalization.
In jail, Horner says authorities tried de-radicalizing him using a psychological approach, telling him he was wrong, to be a good husband, a good father. Nothing worked until he met Raja.
HORNER: I knew I was a father. I knew I was a husband. Once I knew from a religious perspective what I did was incorrect, then I had to question, OK, what's the solution?
ROBERTSON: A solution, it seems, may be at hand. Embracing it, still a challenge.
Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SESAY: Still to come on NEWSROOM, L.A., the Summer Olympics are just four months away, but only half the tickets have been sold. Why Brazil is having such a hard time filling the seats, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:44:47] SESAY: Hello, everyone. A British doctor accused of giving performance enhancing drugs to 150 top flight athletes. The doctor is denying those claims, but the "Sunday Times" says it sent an elite runner united cover who got the doctor to pro-scribe his banned substances. They include premier league football players, tennis players, body builders, and cricketers. It's also reported that the U.K.'s anti-doping agency knew about the potential wrongdoing two years ago but did not alert officials. The U.K.'s culture secretary has ordered an independent investigation into the case.
American soccer star, Abby Wambach, is facing charges of driving under the influence. She was arrested in Portland, Oregon, and released hours later. She recently retired as one of the world's most decorated players. She apologized to her fans in a Facebook post, promising to take full responsibility for her actions.
The 80th Master's tees off on Thursday. It's the golf season's first major tournament of the year, and arguably its most prestigious. Donning the green jacket is a dream come true for anyone who's ever swung a club.
Our Patrick Snell looks at the top contenders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For golf fans the world over, this 80th edition of the Master's really can't come soon enough. An elite star-studded field literally champing at the bit to be let loose at Augusta. Factor in, too, this is also the 30th anniversary of the legendary Jack Nicklaus's final and 18th grand slam title at the age of 46, when the Golden Bear became the oldest man ever to win it.
At age 22, Nicklaus's competitor, Jordan Spieth, looking to win the season's first major for a second time. Last year the Texan, who also won the U.S. Open, would be the tournament's second youngest winner after Tiger Woods. But 2016 has so far proved frustrating. Despite a standout start to the year, which saw him record a huge win in Hawaii. It was Spieth who won the first two majors of 2015.
It was Australia's Jason Day, who triumphed at the PGA championship at Whistling Straits. For so long touted as the best player to have never won a slam title, the popular Aussie finally laid that ghost to record with a major record 20 under par finish. Day triumphed at the recent Arnold Palmer Invitational in Orlando and followed that up with a WGC match play success in Texas, his sixth victory in his last 13 starts.
A year ago, all the talk centered on Rory McIlroy and his quest to complete a career grand slam at Augusta. But he had to play second fiddle to Spieth, and frustrations have continued in '16 with the northern Irishman yet to win this year.
In addition to golf's big three, keep a close eye or two on Adam Scott, who has clearly adapted well to having to ditch his longer putter, quickly getting to grips with a shorter one, already having won twice this season. Scott is also looking to win the coveted green jacket for the second time in three years.
Patrick Snell, CNN.
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SESAY: Very exciting. Well, Brazil is struggling to fill the seats for the Olympic Games in
Rio this summer, which is four months before kickoff, only half of the tickets have been sold. Public officials must boost confidence. Brazil's economy suffered the worst recession in 25 years. The country is also in the midst of political chaos with massive protests and accusations of government corruption.
South African President Jacob Zuma could face impeachment. A debate in parliament is set for Tuesday. This comes after last week's court ruling against Mr. Zuma. He was ordered to repay some of the state's funds that he spent to remodel his private home, a reported $15 million. Now the country's parliament will decide if there are grounds for impeachment. Zuma apologized, but other leaders are calling for him to step down.
Coming up, "Batman Versus Superman" soars at the box office once again, but the superhero flick failed to reach the height of last week's sales.
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[01:53:03] SESAY: Well, the latest film to hit theaters is once again flying high at the box office. Despite a major drop in ticket sales, "Batman Versus "Superman, Dawn of Justice," took the top spot for the second week in a row. The film also saw a 67 percent drop internationally. "Batman Versus Superman" is produced by Warner Bros., part of Time Warner, the parent company of CNN.
And now to a tale of a ponytail fail. A woman on board an airplane has caused an uproar with her seat invasion of a fellow passenger. Now that passenger is getting revenge.
Jeanne Moos has more on the wayward pony tail that went viral.
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JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It doesn't quite qualify as an in-flight emergency, but --
DANTE RAMOS, FLYER & COLUMNIST, BOSTON GLOBE: All of a sudden, this pony tail drops down in front of us.
MOOS: This pony tail. Dante Ramos and his partner exchanged "can you believe this looks," then Dante snapped the photo. "Congrats to the pony tailed young woman in seat 22b. You've invented a whole new way to be awful at 35,000 feet."
RAMOS: We looked at it with disbelief. We waited to see whether the pony tail owner would notice. She didn't appear to.
MOOS: The photo went massively viral, landing on the infamous passenger-shaming Facebook page where, joining bare feet in midair, bare feet on tray tables, feet on arm rests, Q-Tips left in seat pockets, litter, travelers half undressed.
Former flight attendant, Shawn Kathleen (ph), created passenger shaming. Yikes.
SHAWN KATHLEEN (ph), FORMER FLIGHT ATTENDANT: It's so yikes. It's so beyond yikes. There was a gentleman treating his warts with Compound W.
MOOS: There are other hair plane photos on the shaming page, but this one struck a core.
(on camera): What were people suggesting you should have done?
RAMOS: We should have put gum in her hair.
[01:55:07] MOOS (voice-over): "Hey, Rapunzel," commented someone, "you have five seconds to move your hair before I cut it off."
Suggested another, "Just grab it, caress it, sniff it, give it just enough of a tug."
But Dante's partner opted to simply stand up.
RAMOS: Hovered over her in a way that she noticed.
MOOS: Without exchanging a word, she brought up her seat, her hair disappeared.
Dante is a "Boston Globe" columnist, so he wrote a piece entitled "The Day I Went Viral," bemoaning how much attention his hair tweet got compared to serious stuff, while still admiring clever puns like --
RAMOS: We've been hijacked, as if it was a hair weave that had somehow taken over the plane.
MOOS: And lest your locks threaten to overflow your seat, lock 'em down.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
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SESAY: Oh, dear, oh dear, oh dear.
You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.
The news continues with Rosemary Church right after this.
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