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U.S. Presidential Candidates Campaign in Wisconsin Ahead of Vote Tomorrow; Panama Papers Leak Financial Information for Offshore Accounts; Azerbaijan/Armenia Conflict Flares up In Nagorno-Karabakh Region. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired April 4, 2016 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:10] BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: Offshore accounts, dodgy deals and allegations of corruption -- coming up, what's in so-called Panama Papers,
who is involved and the reaction from around the globe.
Also ahead on this show...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's in these waters that thousands of migrants have risked their lives. Men, women and children have died trying
to reach that coastline, that's Greece.
ANDRESON: And now once they reach Greece, many migrants are being sent back to Turkey. We'll have reports from both sides of the perilous
And violence in the south Caucus amid the tensions -- the highest tensions in
years. I'm joined this hour by the foreign minister of Azerbaijan and the foreign minister of the self-declared republic of Nagorno-Karabakh.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
And a very good evening from the UAE. It is 7:00, or just after here, a very busy hour for you.
Ridiculous, outrageous, a series of lies: just some of the reaction today to
reports that appear to expose secretive dealings of the world's rich and powerful.
Now, those reports are based on a massive leak of documents from Mossak Fonseca, a law firm in Panama.
World leaders, celebrities and sports stars are among those accused of using secret offshore companies and accounts to hide billions of dollars.
The shadowy dealings themselves not necessarily illegal, but several countries are already pledging to investigate possible tax evasion.
I've got two reporters on the story for you tonight. Nina Dos Santos is live in London and Matthew Chance in Moscow where the Kremlin says Vladimir
Putin is the, quote, main target of the leaks even though he wasn't mentioned by name.
Nina, let me start with you. More than 11 million pages leaked alleging to show how one firm helped rich and powerful clients launder money, evade tax
and in some cases avoid sanctions.
Explain what we got here and the significance of what's alleged to have happened.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORREPSONDENT: Well, Becky, just to put it into perspective, this is multiple times the amount of information
that was leaked during the course of the WikiLeaks leaks a number of years ago. So,
it is the biggest -- quite simply, the biggest offshore tax leak that we have seen so far. That is why it's significant, as you said.
More than 11 million documents from the law firm Mossack Fonseca. We don't know at this point whether it was an employee, disgruntled employee,
whoever leaked them, we have no idea. They were leaked to a German newspaper, which then decided to work with a number of other publications
around the world these documents for more than a year.
And those 11 million documents actually reveal a whole bunch of important information on the directors of 214,000 companies around the world. Among
the directors alleged on the records of some of those companies listed in tax havens like Panama, the British Virgin Islands and the Seychelles, were
set to be 12 current and former leaders of countries and 128 other people with political links, or active politicians at the moment. And that
doesn't count the sports stars and celebrities.
Now, I want to point out what Mossack Fonseca has been saying over the last 24 hours in its defense. It says, quote, "we are a company who has almost
40 years experience and we have never formally been accused of anything." They also go on to say say, and I'm paraphrasing here, we are not
responsible for how our clients manage the structures that we have set up for them however we may want them
to manage those particular structures.
And that is what you hear repeatedly when you speak to tax advisers. Remember that it isn't illegal to set offshore companies, it is then what
you do with those companies afterwards if you don't declare them in your own tax jurisdiction. And that is what Mossack Fonseca is saying in their
I also want to bring you a comment that comes from Mauricio Macri who has also emerged in these files here. This is the newly elected president of
Argentina. He, according to these allegations, was reportedly a director of the company for about ten years in the Bahamas, which wasn't declared.
He says, Mr. Mauricio Macri -- this is according to a spokesman for the Argentine governmen -- Macri has never had or has a stake in the capital of
the company in question, this one in the Bahamas. Mr. Macri was appointed occasionally as a director without holding any shares.
And what I can bet you, Becky, is that these leaks will continue to come fast
and thick over the last few days. We have had some names that have come to the fore, but of course you can imagine with 11 million documents to pour
through, there's going to be more.
[11:05:03] ANDERSON: Nina is in London for you. Thank you.
Matthew in Moscow. It is alleged, Matthew, that close aides of President Putin were involved in what was a $2 billion money trail with offshore
firms and banks. What's been the response in Russia?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're right. There's been
all sorts of dodgy deals, potentially, that have been revealed in this mammoth leak from this law firm, this accountancy practice, in Panama.
The reaction of the Kremlin has been pretty consistent in the sense that they've denied that the Russian president, for instance, has -- who was not
identified directly and named in any of the leaked documents as far as we're aware.
But to point out that they don't believe he's committed any wrongdoing. In fact, the Kremlin preempted the release of these reports just last week
saying that the western media was poised to launch an information attack on Russia. Today, the Kremlin updated that reaction, if you like, and said,
you know look, this is an attempt to discredit Vladimir Putin was the target of these reports. It's an attempt to discredit the Russian
president ahead of parliamentary elections that are scheduled to take place in Russia later on this year.
And so the Russians, the Kremlin, have been very clear in their response to this, which is that they are denying that there's been any wrong doing done
at the hands of the Russian president despite the fact that many individuals who
are closely linked with Vladimir Putin have been named in these leaked reports, and there are, as I say, a number of dodgy deals that have been
identified connected with them.
ANDERSON: Matthew Chance in Moscow, Nina in London for you and more on this as we move through the hour
To some other stories now on our radar today. And in Iraq, at least 11 people were killed in a wave of suicide bombings across the country. That
includes a bombing at a check point in the capital Baghdad. ISIS has claimed responsibility.
U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan is in Israel right now as part of a congressional delegation trip there. And he's talking politics.
The Times of Israel newspaper reports that he's making it clear again that he does not want the Republican Party to name him its nominee for president
if the other candidates fail to win enough delegates to clinch the spot.
U.S. presidential hopefuls are campaigning now in Wisconsin ahead of Tuesday's primary after a stormy week of controversy. Republican front
runner Donald Trump is trailing Ted Cruz in the polls there.
On the Democratic side, the latest poll numbers show Bernie Sanders just edging ahead of front runner Hillary Clinton.
Well, a controversial new plan to tackle the migration crisis in Europe who is now taking effect with the first wave of migrants being deported from
Greece now arriving in Turkey.
They are being loaded into boats in Greece under a deal reached between Turkey and the EU. It calls for one Syrian refugee to be resettled in
Europe for everyone that sent back to Turkey, which in turn will receive billions of dollars to help shoulder migrant burden there.
Well, the plan is a major setback for many of the already desperate migrants and it is widely condemned by human rights groups.
Let's kick off this part of the show with Erin McLaughlin who has more from just off the Greek island of Lesbos.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It`s in these waters that thousands of migrants have risked their lives, men, women and children had
died trying to reach that coastline. That`s Greece. To them, it represents the beginning of a European dream.
But for over 200 migrants today, predominantly from Afghanistan and Pakistan, that reality is in the other direction, and that is Turkey. They
were deported there today and authorities trying to send a message that a regular migrants are no longer welcome on these shores. They`re no longer
welcome in the European Union. And if they risk their lives and spend their money to get here, they will simply be sent back.
But the real question is, are potential migrants listening, especially when you consider what you see just over the coastline, those are live jackets,
from newly arrived migrants. And the Greek police released numbers overnight, over 300 migrants arrived just in the last 24 hours, compare
that to just 200 deported. More are arriving still than are being deported and that is a big problem because the success of the deal between the
European Union and Turkey depends on stemming the tide of migrants into Greece.
Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Lesbos, Greece.
ANDERSON: Well, migrants are arriving now in Turkey. CNN's Phil Black joins us live from the coast -- the coast in the town of Dikili where there
are mostly men, it seems, coming on these boats from Greece.
Phil, how many of them have been sent back? And what happens to them now that they've arrived in Turkey?
[11:10:22] PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Becky, there were three boats carrying 202 people in total. And yes they were mostly men.
As Erin touched on, they're mostly from Pakistan, Afghanistan, a list of other countries as well -- Bangladesh, India, Somalia, Congo all got a
mention are smaller numbers, two from Syria who, we are told specifically volunteered to make the journey.
Now those from Syria can be reasonably sure about their future. They will be allowed to stay in Turkey in the refugee camps that exist here along
with the 2.7 million other Syrians that are already allowed to stay here, those that have fled across Turkey's southern border to seek refuge from
The others, well their future is less clear. They are being sent to detention centers. And from there, their cases are being assessed
individually. They could potentially apply for some sort of temporary asylum, but in most of those cases their countries are not strictly -- or
would not strictly be considered a war zone. So the degree of protection they would be assessed to require would not be as great. What that means
is they could potentially be returned back to their country of origin, that's what Turkish officials tell us, depending upon what Turkey's
relationship is with the specific country of origin in question, Becky.
ANDERSON: Phil, human rights groups have criticized this deal, concerned that neither Greece nor Turkey is prepared to deal with these deportations.
What's the evidence on the ground?
BLACK: Well, it's complex and there's a lot of concern in Greece in particular because it's not just all illegal migrants that are coming back,
or irregular migrants, they say, but specifically those who either don't apply for asylum to stay in Greece, or those whose application
for asylum to stay in Greece was unsuccessful.
So the real concern in Greece is does it have the man power, the resources to assess so many applications for refugee status. There are already
50,000 people there. More people are still coming. They are really filling up camps. The conditions are becoming increasingly desperate
within those camps. So refugee advocates, human rights activists, they are concerned that that many people simply cannot be given a reasonable,
efficient hearing of their particular set of circumstances, which could result in people being kicked out unfairly, they say.
Here in Turkey, as I say, there's already 2.7 million Syrians here. This is already an enormous burden for this country, and there are concerns
particularly among human rights groups -- we heard from Amnesty over the last week or so -- that Turkey is becoming less tolerant, less
understanding towards many of these migrants here despite how desperate their circumstances are.
But Turkey says it is doing its best and will continue to maintain its open door policy of refuge for those fleeing the Syrian conflict, Becky.
ANDERSON: It's 6:13 in Turkey, 7:13 here in the UAE. Phil, thank you for that. For a list of ways to help the migrants, do visit our impact your
world web page. There, you'll find a list of nonprofits vetted by CNN and many other resources that will help you get involved. That's at
Right. You're with Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. Still to come tonight, an old feud
flaring up between Azerbaijan and Armenia. I'm going to speak to Azerbaijan's foreign minister. That up next.
And later, armed volunteers protect a church in Pakistan. The fears of an attack intensified after a recent bombing specifically targeted Christians.
[11:16:18] ANDERSON: Well, tensions high in the Nagorno-Karabakh, a territory at the very heart of a dispute between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
In the past few days, violence there has claimed the lives of dozens of soldiers from both countries. Now, the two sides pointing to each other
for instigating the fighting.
You're with CNN. This is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
The conflict over this disputed Nagorno-Karabakh territory has been going on for decades. It's internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan, but
the country's influence over the region is thin.
Well, both sides accused each other of continuing to fight.
Well, I'm going to speak with both sides of the conflict this hours. First, I want to bring in Azerbaijan's minister of foreign affairs Elmar
Sir, thank you.
On Sunday, your government announced a unilateral cease-fire. People we have been in touch with on the ground say that is not the case. Fighting
ELMAR MAMMADYAROV, AZERBAIJAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: You know, you're absolutely right that the fight still continues because you cannot
make the truce unilaterally, the other side is still continuously attacking our position. And the most warning part that they also attacking civilians
on the line of contact.
You know, the problem is that most of the civilians, a majority -- almost all of the civilians are living on our side, under the control of
Azerbaijan, because on the other side they are totally ethnically (inaudible). And this regard of course when we introduced initially on the
April 2 -- sorry -- initially on the April 2 when it was introduced through the mediation of minister of -- yeah.
ANDERSON: All right. I want to run a clip from the Armenian president in which he describes the extent of the escalation in fighting. Have a
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERZH SARGSYAN, ARMENIAN PRESIDENT: This is the most widescale fighting that Azerbaijan has attempted since restoring the cease-fire regime in
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: He is saying it's the largest scale of hostilities from the Azerbaijani side. Your response?
MAMMADYAROV: No. I believe that it's not only Azerbaijani side should be blamed, because whenever we introduce after the counterattack in Armenian
part of Armenian forces there, the Armenians refused to bring the cease- fire and the truce. And then its escalation start to gather a vicious circle one by one.
We still introducing through the mediators, which is United States, Russia and France, that ready for the truce, and soon it will come better it will
be for everyone. But unfortunately, Armenian side rejecting it.
ANDERSON: All right. Well, the Russian foreign minister has weighed in on this recent escalation in violence, calling for calm. Let's listen to what
he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We hope these calls were heard, at least the sides announced, that they had given
necessary orders. Though today we continue to hear information that these incidents did not stop completely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And this is what U.S. Vice President Joe Biden had to say after meeting with your president -- hang on, sir, I just want to bring in what
Joe Biden said. He met with your president on the sidelines of the nuclear security summit last week. And he said this, quote, "the vice president
expressed concern about continued violence, called for dialogue and emphasized the importance of a comprehensive settlement for long-term
Sir, critics say this is another sign of Azerbaijan's escalating regional aggression. Is Baku interested in a peaceful, negotiated settlement?
MAMMADYAROV: Of course. Probably Azerbaijan he's the most interested party for the peaceful settlement and peace talks. B ut we need the
results. We're on the point of view that our territory is under occupation. And even the United Nations security
council adopted four resolutions in 1993, which call for immediate and unconditional withdraw for Armenian troops from the occupied territories of
Very unfortunate that after that it's more than 20 years passed, but we still have the same picture when we're talking about the occupied
So there is no doubt, of course, for Azerbaijan is extremely important to move forward.
We negotiating with the co-chairs, which is as I said the United States, Russia, France, and there is on the table so-called updated (inaudible)
principles which prepare the scheduled and step by step approach for the settlement. That's what Vice President Biden talk about the comprehensive
peace agreement, which are fully supporting our thinking that what we need to do is move forward.
Again, I say this, Azerbaijan is the most interested party. And we are ready to do utmost to return our territories by peaceful means.
Therefore, I think that...
ANDERSON: Let me put this to you, the Armenian-backed region has run its - - they run their own affairs since 1994 when the war ended. Why attack it now?
MAMMADYAROV: No, because the ceasefire, let me tell you a little bit story of it, why it happened. It was with -- I was with my president in
Washington on this nuclear summit. When I get on April 2, a call from Foreign Minister of Russia Sergey Lavrov, who asked me that there is
clashes on the line of contact and it should be stopped. I immediately informed
the president and we talked to the minister of defense. We said, yes, there is an attacks and it starts on the night when Armenian armed forces
started attacking civilians on Azerbaijani side.
Of course, as I said, that will be a response that it go as a a vicious circle, one by one further on.
Then, Lavov introduced that why wouldn't we introduce a cease-fire together with defense minister of Russia and we say, okay, let's do it at 3:00 of
the local time, but very, very unfortunate that Armenian side did not correspondent correctly and they refuse to put the truth on the ground.
And then Azerbaijan on April 3...
ANDERSON: ...that hasn't helped has it?
MAMMADYAROV: ...unilaterally declared...
ANDERSON: Yeah. OK, let me -- and I hear what you say and we've discussed the fact that the cease-fire hasn't now held.
Earlier in the show, I just want to put this to you, we were talking about the report on leaked documents about some of the world's most powerful
people and their use of secret offshore companies, those allegedly include members of the first family of Azerbaijan.
I want to put this to you. The report says in 2005 President Aliyev's wife was named as one of two managers of the Panamanian U.S. Universe
Foundation, incorporated in 2003, and it goes on to say his daughters control the Panama incorporated company and two others in the British
Your response to these allegations?
MAMMADYAROV: I have no any information about it, frankly speaking.
ANDERSON: All right. Sir, well, thank you for allowing us to ask the question and we appreciate your time. Thank you.
That is the view for Azerbaijan. In just about 15 minutes, then, we are going to get you the view from inside the Nagorno-Karabakh. I'll be joined
by the self-declared republic's foreign minister to talk with him about the violence. So, do stay with us for that.
Rescue crews in Pakistan are trying to reach thousands of people stranded by severe floods. At least 47 people have been killed since torrential
rains began Saturday night in parts of the northwest and Pakistani- controlled Kashmir.
Now, officials say that flash flooding has triggered landslides burying houses and blocking roads to some villages.
Well, Christians in Pakistan are calling on the government to do more to protect them after the
devastating bombing in Lahore, you'll remember, on Easter Sunday. Saima Mohsin now shows us how some communities are feeling vulnerable living
every day in fear.
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Gunmen guarding the church. I meet Pastor Shakeel Anjum and he say it's strange to see gunmen outside a
place of worship.
"We have 20 to guard us on a Sunday," he says.
This is the most densely populated Christian area in Pakistan. It was attacked last year.
Inside, the Free Church School, there are usually 40 children in this class, but many are too scared to attend since the Lahore park bombing.
Pastor Shakeel has buried six of his flock in one day.
SHAKEEL ANJUM, PASTOR, SACRED HEART CATHEDRAL (through translation): Our people are very poor. They can't afford the time to protest the attack. We
really need the support of Muslims of Pakistan and the government. As Christians, we love and pray for Pakistan.
MOHSIN: In a national address, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif said each and every drop of blood is being counted. The score will be settled. It's being
settled apparently by the military and police in raids on terrorist hideouts across the country.
CECIL CHOUDRY, MINORITY RIGHTS WORKER: What about the beast within us? What about the beast that is within our houses and our society? If we do not
address those problems, this military operation will be a waste.
MOHSIN: Minority rights worker, Cecil Choudhry, has said successive governments have made space for extremists. The roots of the radicalization
of Pakistan are in its various laws.
CHOUDHRY: When you exclude the religious minorities from your textbooks, when you start putting material letters bias towards or discriminatory to
other faiths, how will they respect minorities when they grow up.
MOHSIN: Cecil's father, a decorated war veteran and pilot in two wars, have been removed from the history books.
And this ad clearly says it's looking for non Muslims to clean toilets. The ad was later retracted but exposed the institutionalized discrimination.
We found the Christian community feels isolated and neglected.
"My husband is a day laborer but doesn't find work. I only get cleaning jobs."
"It's clear our area is neglected because we are Christians. No roads or pavements."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): How can we live here? We are under attack?
MOHSIN: Blasphemy law has often been manipulated to persecute minorities, including Christians. In a highly publicized case, a Christian mother of
five was sentenced to death for blasphemy. The Muslim governor of Punjab called for the death penalty to be revoked. He was gunned down by his own
At Sunday's service, a special song praying not just for Christians but for citizens of all faiths in Pakistan, we should be seen as equals in the eyes
of the state.
Saima Mohsin, CNN, Lahore.
ANDERSON: The latest world news headlines are just ahead on CNN. Plus, he's been the front runner for months. But it's been a shaky old week for
Donald Trump. Will he recover with you in the important state of Wisconsin? Coming up.
[11:32:42] ANDERSON: Yes, it's the race for the White House and there is more confusion
than usual about Donald Trump's latest claims. Coming as a big surprise to many analysts, the Republican front runner says the American economy is in
a very bad way. He told The Washington Post the U.S. is headed for a, quote, very massive recession, but the country is sitting on, quote, an
economic bubble, a financial bubble, end quote, and that he will get rid of America's $19 trillion debt in just eight years as president.
CNN senior politics reporter Dylan Byers explains what Trump's latest strategy seems to be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DYLAN BYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Danger is on the horizon and I'm going to stop it. I am going to build a wall. China will listen to me. We have a
recession coming. I'm going to make sure that recession doesn't happen. It is these sort of setting up these monsters lurking just over the horizon in
2017 and him saying I'm going to be the strong man to stop it. Where is the concrete policy telling you how he's going to do that? Where is the actual
evidence that the problem he's citing is actually a real problem? None of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, voters in Wisconsin head for the state's presidential primaries on Tuesday, and Republican front runner Donald Trump is
campaigning hard there. You'll see them. This is live coming to us from the state.
He's ahead in the national delegate count, but there's no guarantee he will get all the delegates he needs to win the party's nomination.
Well, now he's calling for John Kasich, currently third in the Republican race, to pull out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kasich is now 1 for 30, is it 1 for 30, or 1 for 29? He's 1 for 30. It's good if he gets out. I don't want him in. I don't want him in.
Why are you in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, Kasich says he still expects to be the Republicans eventual nominee. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KASICH, GOVERNOR OF OHIO: There's two strong things I have going for me. Number one, I beat Hillary Clinton in virtually every poll. I'm the
only one that does it on the Republican side.
And secondly, when they look at the record, when they look at the record of job growth, the
record of international foreign policy knowledge and experience, I believe that a convention will
look at somebody like me and that's why I think I'm going to be the nominee, we just have to keep going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: John Kasich.
Well, on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are locked in a debate over their next debate. CNN's Chris Frates reports they are
trading some pretty harsh jabs before they even get on to the stage.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So the debate over debates exploded on the campaign trail this weekend with the Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton
campaigns blaming each other for refusing to lock down a date to debate in the Empire State. I know that sounds a little Dr. Seussian, so let's break
The Clinton campaign saying they proposed three different dates to debate Bernie Sanders in New York, and Sanders rejected them all. The Sanders
folks saying, "Hold on. Wait a minute here. Those dates didn't work. For instance, one of those proposed dates was today, and tonight, of course is
the NCAA men's basketball game." The Sanders folks say people want to watch basketball, not a presidential debate.
One of the other dates that was floated was April 14. The Sanders folks say they're planning a huge rally in New York City's Washington Square park
that night. They have 10 to 20,000 people expected, so thanks, but no thanks. We're a little busy that night.
Now, the campaigns slugged it out. But take a listen to how Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton talked about these debates.
CLINTON: I'm confident that there will be. But I'm not -- I'm not the one negotiating it. That's going on between our campaigns. And I do know my
campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders's campaign would agree with.
SANDERS: I think what we want is to look at the maximum viewing audience. And any time and any venue that works that has that viewing audience will
be good. So, we're looking at a lot of options right now, but I think at the end of the day, George, we will have a time and a place that will be, I
suspect, a very spirited debate.
FRATES: So obviously both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton want to debate. In fact, Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told me that he
believes this dispute will be settled fairly soon. And it's a very big and important thing for Bernie Sanders. He's expected to do well tomorrow in
Wisconsin. He needs those delegates. And then he needs to move to New York and upset Hillary Clinton in her adopted home state.
There's about 250 delegates at stake in New York, that's second only to California. Bernie Sanders looking for the upset there. So when this
debate is, where it airs, is a big deal. So, we'll continue to watch that as Bernie Sanders continues to try to close the gap on Hillary Clinton.
ANDERSON: Well, for another fascinating twist in what is already an exciting political season, to say the least, you -- can you buy your way to
becoming the Republican Party's nominee? Well, this article looks at how far candidates can go in providing gifts to election delegates. For all
that and more CNN.com/politics is where you need to be. And remember, join us here on CNN all day Tuesday for complete coverage of what is this
critical Wisconsin primary.
Well, let's turn back to a story that we have been following very closely for you here on Connect the World. Violence in a decades' old conflict
flaring up once more on the fringes of Europe between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Well, Azerbaijan is saying three of its troops were killed by Armenian forces on Monday, that's after it put a unilateral ceasefire in place just
the day before.
We're seeing reports that Azerbaijan is still firing its weapons as well.
Well, they're fighting over this region, Nagorno-Karabakh, as you can see. It's deeply embedded in Azerbaijan, but only has loose links to it. The
region is, in fact, controlled by ethnic Armenians. And they've been running governmental affairs there since 1994 when a cease-fire ended a
Well, we're in the show, I was joined by Azerbaijan's foreign minister. Now I want to get you the perspective from the other side. We're joined by
Karen Mirzoyan who is the foreign minister of the self-declared Republican of Nagorno-Karabakh joining us live from there now.
Sir, and w thank you.
What is happening on the ground? Does the fighting continue?
KAREN MIRZOYAN, FOREIGN MINISTER SELF-DECLARED REPUBLIC OF NAGORNO- KARABAKH: Well, good evening. As you already know in the early hours of April 2, Azerbaijan Between the armed force of April 2, Azerbaijan
initiated an unprecedented escalation of tension along the entire line of contact between the armed force of Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh Republic
having heavy military equipment, artillery and combat aircraft.
Azerbaijani armed forces fired artillery shells and rockets not only at advanced position of Nagorno-Karabakh defense army, but also populated
areas, which resulted in many casualties, including among the civilian population.
Fights, at this moment...
[11:40:11] ANDERSON: All right, sir, let me stop you for a moment, because I know we've got a slight delay on this line, so let me stop you, sir, with
A few moments ago, we were joined by Azerbaijan's foreign minister, and let me read you back some of what he just told me.
He said, quote, probably Azerbaijan is the most interested party for the peaceful settlement and peace talks, but we need a result from the point of
view that our territory is under occupation.
The words of the Azerbaijani foreign minister. Your response.
MIRZOYAN: You know, it's not a matter of territory, it's a matter of self- determination. The people of Nagorno-Karabakh 25 years go wanted for independence. And these people fully express (inaudible) this right for
self-determination. And now the current regime in (inaudible) people trying to oppress not only by diplomatic means, but first of all by
military means, which is very dangerous development.
So, we are looking for a diplomatic settlement of this conflict. We are looking for the working
mechanism, which could provide us with possibility to coexist in this region.
ANDERSON: All right. You say you're looking for a solution. The Russian foreign minister has weighed in on the recent escalation of violence,
calling for calm. Let's listen to what Sergey Lavrov had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAVROV (through translator): We hope these calls were heard. At least the sides announced that they had given necessary orders, though today we
continue to hear information that these incidents did not stop completely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Are you concerned, sir, that this conflict is entering a new phase?
LAVROV: You know, we highly appreciated the efforts of minister Lavrov as well as other ministers -- as well as minister of the United States and
France, co-chairs of this group. We highly appreciate the efforts of international community, but we believe that any -- and address the calls
to all the sites are receiving Azerbaijan not as a sign of concern, not as a sign that there is a time to stop the
violence, but there's a sign that they could continue this politics, the politics of implementing military measures against the people of Nagorno-
It's time to call...
ANDERSON: And with that, sir, we will leave there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us.
Thank you, sir. Thank you.
And apologies, viewers, we had a slight delay on the communications between us. But you've heard there the words from the region on both sides.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. Coming up, raising awareness of autism through music, we have the story through the eyes of
one filmmaker. That is tonight's parting shots due and that is in about 10 minutes time.
First up, though, fighting terrorism in Europe. We take a look at a program in the UK that tries to reform jihadists. Do stay with us. That,
we're taking a short break. Back after this.
[11:45:47] ANDERSON: Right, you're watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me, Becky Anderson. Welcome back. 45 minutes past 7:00 here in
The threat of terrorism is once again on the minds of many people across Europe after last month's attacks in Brussels, of course.
Now, police in Britain are holding two people for what they are calling Syria-related terror
offenses. A 24-year-old man and a 20-year-old women have both been arrested.
Now, the country does have deradicalization programs to help convicted jihadists get back into society after they leave prison but as CNN's Nic
Robertson found out, more needs to be done.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Three years ago in London...
JORDAN HORNER, MUSLIM VIGILANTE PATROL MEMBER: You're walking through a Muslim area dressed like (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You need get out of here.
ROBERTSON: ...a Muslim vigilante patrol, the threatening voice. That's Jordan Horner. Today, he says he's a changed man.
HORNER: It's something which when I was sincere to myself, I said, yes, it was something which I was regretting.
ROBERTSON: Back then, he was a Muslim radical, praised Muslim killers. He was dangerous and went to jail.
Today, he credits this man, former cage fighter and de-radicalizer, Roger, with turning him around.
HORNER: That made me understand that, you know, that the actions that I did do were not Islamic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's able to re-conceptualize things for the individuals in a way that allows them to challenge their own internal beliefs. There is
a very, very select few that are actually quite effective in what they do.
ROBERTSON (on camera): Getting de-radicalizing right has never been so important. British officials estimate about 800 people have gone to join
ISIS in Iraq and Syria, and about half of those have come back.
Then there's Jordan Horner and others like him, an unknown number, who radicalized and never left.
But what Roger, who I have been covering for several years, is telling me is shocking. That his scant government funding is drying up as authorities
re-evaluate their programs.
(voice-over): Always working on a shoestring. He is down to his last $200 in an overdraft account.
HORNER: We were doing about 70 percent of our work for free. What's ended up happening is that even that agreement has now disappeared.
ROBERTSON: But he is still in demand. Plenty of jailed terrorists are asking for his help.
HORNER: I wanted to go after a few weeks, but I couldn't go on my own. And he says, I still have terrible nightmares, and I want you to help me.
ROBERTSON: This letter he says is from a British radical who joined ISIS in Syria, now a convicted terrorist.
HORNER: We're not able to reach those individuals because there isn't an understanding there of how to deal with this phenomenon.
ROBERTSON: He is frustrated, and so is expert, Douglas Weeks. Both say most de-radicalizing programs can alienate radicals.
DOUGLAS WEEKS, JIHADIST EXPERT: What they're saying is you're wrong. And so you immediately have this kind of confrontational approach.
ROBERTSON: The British governments prevent de-radicalization strategy details hundreds of people who have been helped through education, criminal
justice, faith, charities, online and health approaches to de- radicalization. In jail, Horner says authorities tried de-radicalizing him using a psychological approach, telling him he was wrong, to be a good
husband, a good father. Nothing worked until he met Raja.
HORNER: I knew I was a father. I knew I was a husband. Once I knew from a religious perspective what I did was incorrect, then I had to question, OK,
what's the solution?
ROBERTSON: A solution, it seems, may be at hand. Embracing it, still a challenge.
Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
[11:49:57] ANDERSON: You're watching Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Coming up, connecting feelings through music and theater. And
one way of raising awareness about autism. That is next and that is your parting shot this evening
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. And this is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
Now, this week marks the 8th Annual World Autism Awareness Day. Here in the UAE, Autism affects approximately 1 in every 50 kids, that is why one
woman wanted to raise awareness of the condition. She directed and produced As One: The Autism Project, a documentary focusing on ten
children dealing with autism who participate in a theatrical and musical performance. Here's a look in tonight's Parting Shots for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Class is starting. Come on, come one, come on, Asham (ph), we have got to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having a child with autism is something actually to be proud of, not ashamed of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Music is what feelings sound like. He understands the connection
between expressing those feelings and singing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just has so much love for life. You just see it there in his eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we decided to make the documentary, the idea of doing a play of kids, all of them with autism, a lot of people said this is
a crazy idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I first heard that there was going to be a thing about autism in the UAE, I was like, wow, great, about time. And when it
came to me that, you know, we would have to participate, then it dawned on me that am I ready to really put
ourselves out there? But I'm really glad we did now.
UNIDENITIFID FEMALE: This is Gabby (ph). She's our new friend. She's going to be joining the team.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To have the opportunity for your child to take part in a thing like a
theater project, which was what the film is about is number one an opportunity for the child, and number two, it's an opportunity for the
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we first joined the project, it was quite challenging for Gabrielle (ph), my daughter, because she was joining the
group late in the process. So she found a lot of things overwhelming.
But with time she began to really enjoy the togetherness and the sense of belonging with the project.
But when you see the film, you can see a lot of these children in their diversity being funny, being very entertaining, being a star in singing
role. So the challenges were met and it was overcome.
ANDERSON: As One: The Autism Project, a documentary focusing on ten kids dealing with autism.
Do you know anybody affected by autism? Well, do let us know your experiences in dealing with the condition by logging on to our Facebook
page. And that is Facebook.com/CNNConnect. We're going to put that video up that we just showed you there so you can share it with your friends and
That and a lot more, of course, of what the team has been working on throughout the day. And your comments always welcome on the stories that
we are covering. It's your show. You can also get in touch with me. Tweet me @beckycnn.
And a reminder, just before we go, do remember to join us here on CNN all day Tuesday for complete coverage of the U.S. race for the White House.
Yes, it is at the critical stage of the Wisconsin primary, that only here on CNN, your place for politics.
I'm Becky Anderson. That was Connect the World from the team here, it's a very good evening.