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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Hillary Clinton Campaigns In New York; Clinton and Sanders Face Close Race In Wisconsin; Clinton and Sanders Spar Over Debates; A Peek Behind The Trump Campaign Curtain; Source Says Train Crash Outside Philadelphia Due To "Colossal" Mistake. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 04, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:04] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: May notice that Secretary Clinton began her address with our state. She is a New Yorker, folks. This is her state. And that is a good strategy. Start, speaking of thing, our state, I'm at home brothers and sisters.

Brian Fallon is still here with me, the press secretary for Hillary for America. I do need to ask you because if you look at some of the numbers and I want to look Wisconsin. We're heading in to Wisconsin. And I know you don't want to look at Wisconsin but you have to deal.

Bernie is ahead 48-43 if you look at the most recent Fox Business poll. And maybe that's five points maybe that's something that can change. But it has been thought all along this will be a struggle for her. There is a boomerang effect when you win a big state like Wisconsin. I think it's what -- 42, No, no, I have the Republican numbers there. But it's a lot of delegates and it's a critical amount of delegates going into something like New York.

In New York she is ten points ahead no matter what poll you look at in the most recent one, 52 to 42 or 50 to 40 which ever when you look at.

So what do you got to do other than say things like "Our State" to make sure you preserve that spread and God forbid don't see the boomerang effect out of what could be Wisconsin tomorrow?

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Fair question. We think we need to do two things. Number one is that the victory that New York state is celebrating today of a $15 an hour living wage in New York state is a testament to what people can do when they come together and commitment themselves to getting results.

Hillary Clinton that's what she did in the senate that's what she wants to do as president. She is promising things she can deliver on, that she has a concrete plan to get results on. So the number one thing we need to do in New York is say that the results that she got as senator that's the approach she wants to take to Washington. Unlike Bernie Sanders who's been in senate for 25 years, doesn't have a lot to show for it in terms of legislative accomplishments. She's got a track record. You can count on her to get things done.

BANFIELD: But she don't think that New Yorkers are blinded by Trumps wild headlines. That are have everything to do but the issue. What you're doing is you're saying, we think the issues will sell in New York. Can people hear or see issues anymore?

FALLON: Absolutely. And she is -- the second thing that we're doing is we're campaigning in all parts of the state. She was in Syracuse last week. She'll be up in Albany after this rally today in manhattan. We're going to be across the city. She was inn churches yesterday in New York City, she'll be on Long Island, she'll be going to Buffalo. President Clinton is touring all of the corners of the state.

We believe every vote counts in New York. We believe we're in a strong position and we certainly think that we're going to be able to hold back Senator Sanders from achieving the type of result he needs in New York to truly compete for the nomination. He needs to do about 58 to 60 percent of the delegates out of New York in order to be on track to overtake her delegate lead. We certainly think, we're going to be able to prevail ...

BANFIELD: But crazy things has happened before in Michigan, things like that. So that I know you do ...

FALLON: But even Michigan ...

(CROSSTALK)

FALLON: ... by an better margin that he won Michigan. If he's truly going to overtake the 231 delegate we have.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you something about way down the line. I know you like to keep your eyes on the prize right now. But way down the line the bigger prize in the presidency. And if Donald Trump is going to be the nominee and if Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee, he is facing a whole world of heck right now for his lack of machinery. And that scraping of the delegates, right?

Is he retooling it and learning by shows like this that's happening and he's realizing it takes a team as Newt Gingrich has said. And maybe he's letting his ego take a small back door to the team approach. Hillary Clinton's people, that's you, have to be absolutely -- well, I will just say scared as supposed to something scared.

FALLON: About the Republican Party ...

BANFIELD: About the potential of Donald Trump figuring out his missteps now early on and if she is going to face him she may face a well-oiled machine. That wasn't in place during the primaries.

FALLON: Well I just think that Donald Trump has so clearly branded himself and made clear to the American people where he stands on some of the most important issues that he's not going to be able to live those position down.

Hillary Clinton in recent weeks has taken to quoting the late Maya Angelou who once said that when people show you who they are, believe them.

BANFIELD: But if he's a good spinner out there and the machine and the grassroots ... FALLON: I don't think the best spin can overcome some of the out landish and potentially dangerous positions that Donald Trump has taken.

BANFIELD: Donald Trump so far.

FALLON: Those are moments saying that right now we're celebrating a $15 living wage in New York State.

Donald Trump in the Republican debate stood on the stage and said wages are too high and he would oppose in minimum wage increase because he thinks that they're already too high. That's a moment that he is not going to live down, that's the moment that we're going to hold him to account for if he is the of the Republican nominee.

BANFIELD: There is a reason that you're the press secretary for Hillary for America. You're very, very good at getting that message out twice when I just ask you. How do you keep those headlines out when it's issues this and you want those voters to not be blinded by all the crazy stuff.

All right, Brian Fallon, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

FALLON: Thanks for having me.

[12:34:40] BANFIELD: As we said, Democrats waging a fierce battle for New York and the title of hometown hero. Both Clinton and Sanders with deep roots here, we're going to talk Democratic strategy in New York and beyond with our panel next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: On the eve of the Wisconsin primary, in two weeks before the show down in New York, I want to talk a little bit more about the Democratic race and the campaign strategy with Bob Beckel, CNN Political Commentator and Democratic Strategist and CNN Political Commentator Errol Louis who is back with us for round two. Thank you to both of you.

All right, Bob Beckel, I talked a little bit about momentum that you get when you win a race, let's say Wisconsin, whoever comes out the leader tomorrow and there's about a five-point spread between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. And yet, there's very little talk that she could surmount that. Why is that?

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well I mean, Bernie's numbers are pretty strong. And she's never been very strong in Wisconsin. It's not the kind of state that ...

BANFIELD: You think five points is very strong?

[12:39:58] BECKEL: No, no, no, I said I don't think she is been very strong in Wisconsin. But look I don't think she is going to win Wisconsin. But is before she got representation, she'll get her share of delegates out of it. And that's something people keep forgetting here that these delegates are chosen by proportion. And she will even if she loses the vote she will gain a lot of delegates. And in New York and I believe she will win because minorities are growing in numbers as voters significantly since the last presidential election.

So I think her strategy really is to keep racking up delegates. And I don't think a bounce out of Wisconsin is going to carry in to New York. First of all those people think she got to lose any way.

BANFIELD: Errol, jump in here on the piece that kind of the New York Times about Bernie Sanders making some critical missteps early in the campaign.

And I say that sort of with the looking at scans at the headlines because nobody thought that Bernie Sanders was going to be anywhere near where he is now. So how can anybody characterized things that he may have done perfectly early on as missteps?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well you raise a good point, Ashleigh. And I fact it says in that New York Times article that Bernie Sanders himself didn't necessarily think he was going to do as well as he has. Both with fund-raising with the level of excitement that he's generated and certainly with the amount of delegates that he's won in the way that he has won them.

On the other hand, you know, the Bernie Sanders followers, I'm sure you've heard from them, too, Ashleigh, they -- until the last vote is cast in California, they're going to swear that there's a chance, that there's a chance no matter how slim for their guy to prevail.

So we'll just wait and we'll count all of the votes. But, you know, at this point, the lead, the delegate lead and we're not even talking about super delegates that Hillary Clinton holds because of her proportional delegation -- delegate allocation it's going to be very, very hard to sort of make up a net deficit of over 200 delegates, I mean that's just very, very hard to do.

So he's going to make his last stand. I think in the next few states, he's going to make a really hard run here in New York. We're looking forward to a vigorous debate and hopefully a televised debate.

In fact my company Time Warner Cable News hopefully will get or share in that debate. And we'll see how it all pans out and then we'll have to start talking about what the Sanders Democrats want out of all of this, other than a win, if a win seems to be out of reach.

BANFIELD: So let's Bob, maybe you can just help me out here because things have, you know, certainly started to look a little uglier between the two of them. There's been a lot of sniping back and forth about, you know, who has oil and gas, money and there's some fact checking to say "Look, if you're a lobbyist, you're a lobbyist for a lot of different organizations, not just the oil and gas. And I know that Secretary Clinton has come out to say this isn't fair to say that I take money from lobbyists who happen to represent oil and gas. They happen to represent a lot of other things, as well. But they're not backing down from it. In fact Hillary Clinton has gone even farther and she's saying Bernie Sanders is not a true Democrat, or at least isn't a life-long Democrat. He's only just switched to being a Democrat recently.

I don't know why she wouldn't have brought this up before? It's not like this is new information. But it does, I hate to even say this because everybody overuses it, it sounds like the gloves are coming off. Who is the winner between Bernie sanders and Hillary Clinton, if indeed the gloves are really coming off, and it's going to get ugly and dirty?

BECKEL: Well I mean, (inaudible) civil war in the Democratic Party, I don't buy that for a second. I mean they're going to rally around the nominee. I've counted delegates for six presidential elections. I cannot under the best circumstances get Bernie Sanders to a majority of the delegates. Now it may happen if Hillary Clinton where to be say indicted because of the e-mail scandal. But I don't think that's going to happen. If the FBI and Justice Department steps in now, at this far down the process it would be very, very difficult to try to indict her.

But look, she and Sanders are getting in the point now as every presidential campaign does, as you get closer to the final states, things get tougher. And I expect they're going to get a lot tougher. And we're going to be in New York City, where it gets very tough.

So I suspect though she's going to win New York. And she'll win a good share of delegates.

And then you of course you've got places like California and -- where she will do well. Even if she doesn't win, she's going to pick up close to half of the delegates. That's the problem. No winner take all here anymore.

BANFIELD: Yeah, that's the difference, I mean big difference between a lot of Democratic races and the Republican race.

All right, Bob Beckel, Errol Louis thank you both. Appreciate it. As always love your insight.

Coming up at 1:00 p.m., the senior adviser for the Bernie Sanders campaign, Tad Devine is going to join Wolf Blitzer. And he'll weigh in on the strategies that Bernie Sanders thinks he needs to win Wisconsin and then of course the big concern in New York. And those states beyond, maybe some seaboard states and mid Atlantic states after that. The momentum could mean everything.

Surprise, surprise, the most unconventional majority party presidential campaign in modern history has the most unconventional campaign apparatus.

[12:45:00] When we come back, we're going to lift the curtain and give you a sneak peek behind the Trump campaign. It is really not what you think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: There is this report out today in New York Magazine giving some new insight of the inner workings of the campaign of GOP front runner, Donald Trump.

And in particular, Trump's advisers, as well as his feud with the media and anybody else that he has been fighting with.

Joining me know to discuss the CNN Senior Media Correspondent, Host of Reliable Sources, Brian Stelter.

I don't know if he hates, you're not, but he hates a whole bunch of us who ever dare to ask him a tough question.

The interesting thing I thought about this piece in the Washington Post piece about Woodward also did today.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BANFIELD: Well how much his family as a part of this. I know we see them. But we see families all the time ...

STELTER: But behind the scenes, as well, yes.

BANFIELD: Ivanka, that beautiful modelesque statuesque woman whoever show up and that takes the microphone is a big influencer.

STELTER: And yes, and in this new report by Gabe Sherman, New York Magazine, he says that it was Ivanka who push Trump to rethink his view about Planned Parenthood. And that's as a result why Trump on the campaign trail defends Planned Parenthood much of the work the organization does.

[12:50:04] That's a position that no other prominent Republican would take. And yet Trump says it again and again of course he distinguishes between abortion-related services and the many other services the organization provide. And according to this article it's thanks to Ivanka's lobby behind scenes.

BANFIELD: And then there are the others, a lot of sort of hodgepodge apprentice, candidates who have been on T.V. and or -- I think Hope Hicks his P.R. person, that's 27-years-old and very little public experience or politics experience if any.

STELTER: Yeah, that's right. According to the article, there was a call in January of last year.

Think about this, almost six months before Trump announced he was running Hope Hicks he said, I want you to be my press secretary.

So behind the scenes Trump was making these plans many months before he entered the race. You know, some people think, when he entered the race, was he really trying to become president, was this all just a way to promote his company, well according to this article, no. He was planning it for a while.

BANFIELD: That young woman Hope Hicks up until then had been, she done P.R. for Ivanka's fashion line.

STELTER: Yeah, that's right. BANFIELD: That's really different than politics.

STELTER: And now she is -- it would basically his right hand woman, a very responsive, a very much on the ball, always organizing these interviews. And of course Trump gives so many interviews including the Bob Woodward, the Washington Post this weekend that it almost overwhelms the media's nervous system. He says so many things, some of them not necessarily accurate that it's almost hard to keep up. You know, he talked about eliminating the national debt in eight years.

Well economists have say that is impossible, as Christine Romans pointed out.

BANFIELD: I got to give the 27-year-old Hope Hicks credit for having this sort of (inaudible) at the end of ...

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: Yeah, so another interesting one in this article with Woodward is the idea that if Trump is president he would require employees high-level employees in the White House to sign nondisclosure agreements.

BANFIELD: Yeah, that my heart actually dropped when I saw that because, look I became a citizen of this country. I love this country. I'm the most highest citizen, the, you know, the transparency of this government and of the workings of America are what are the drivers of it being leader in the world. Nondisclosure agreements for senior staff at the White House, they can never ever speak of the inner workings of the White House ...

STELTER: It would basically, yeah, that's definitely is not something we heard of before with regards to government administration, with normally it would stop a White House tell al, in all the books that people write after they leave office, after they've left their positions.

However Trump of course comes from the executive world they are more common in the companies in the kind of companies that Trump has run.

One of the appeals of his campaign is that he's not going to bring the corporate world experience to the government. And one example of that he says, this is a idea of a nondisclosure agreement.

BANFIELD: Well, look, I mean the challenges to the first amendment that he has already thrown out, the idea that she can sue reporters who give you unflattering, as supposed to unfactual ...

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: ... right.

BANFIELD: These are really uncomfortable things for a country that takes pride in free speech and being able to question your president unlike you can do to President Putin. STELTER: It's almost that one of the things that's happened is was all of campaign for good or bad, is it all things are on the table in a way they haven't been before. The same that is true with Bernie Sanders as well. But on the right it's Donald Trump who has opened up ideas and conversations that we didn't use to have in presidential elections. Planned Parenthood because he's one of them and his idea of nondisclosure agreements is another.

BANFIELD: Brian Stelter, it's some great reading out there. It's long reading, that's about 50 pages worth of material if you take both of the reports you get. Thank you, Brian.

STELTER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: Still ahead, the probe of yesterday's deadly Amtrak accident, just pointing to what one source calls -- are you ready for this? If you take public transportation you better be ready, a colossal mistake.

[12:53:24] We'll tell you what that means, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A source close to the investigation at yesterday's Amtrak crash says that somebody made, and I will quote them, "A colossal mistake." The evidence has indicating that two construction workers on a piece of heavy equipment should not have been on that stretch of track near Philadelphia.

The accident killed both men and then injured 37 people on the train, as well because the train partially derailed. The train was headed from New York to Savannah, Georgia up 350 passengers and crew were on board when this happened.

Mary Schiavo, is a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation. There's a very simple question I have for you, how on earth does that happen, being on the wrong track? I know not to be on the wrong track?

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL U.S. TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT: Well, it happens when someone obviously, one didn't pay attention to their work orders and they're literally and they had a lack of management. But there's also a huge questions here. And some of the same questions we've seen in the other crashes over the past year to two years with Amtrak is it why wasn't the system called positive train control in effect? Was this the kind of an accident, positive train control could not have averted. And of course that is the system where the sensors on the tracks, the sensors in the engines, and the sensors in the headquarters at the management of the overall system are supposed to coordinate and give the engineer on the train the information as to what's on the track and the track is clear.

And so those would be very, very important questions for the NTSB to answer because that's a, you know, that's -- the system that costs $500 million a year to operate and about 10 billion to build. So there are a lot of questions there we need to answer on that. BANFIELD: Is the positive train control, you and I talked at length about that after the accident near Philadelphia last year. But what about just the simple 12-step procedure that Amtrak has in place for construction workers? How do you screw up 12 whole steps?

SCHIAVO: By not following them. And it's just simple -- just like on other transportation accidents, you have a checklist and you have steps that you're suppose to go through for a reason so the disasters don't happen. And it's clear that they were not followed.

And what folks don't realize is how long it takes to stop a train. You know, even if the -- if you got the information, depending on the speed of the train it can take from 1 to 5 miles to stop a train depending how heavy it is. So they may not have had any chance.

BANFIELD: Mary Schiavo, thank you for that. We do appreciate it. It just -- its boggles the mind without question. Mary, thank you. And thank you, everyone for watching. Stay tuned. Wolf has some fantastic coverage as the campaign continues. All of the campaigns continue through Wisconsin tomorrow night.

[13:00:09] I'm turning it over to Wolf.