Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Primary Voting Underway in Wisconsin; GOP Rivals Vying for Critical Wisconsin Win; Sanders, Clinton Battle for Wisconsin; Wisconsin Talk Radio Hosts Take on Trump. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00] CUOMO: Scotty's solution, basically using an app to broadcast. Not only brought back the TV station but saved the school $8,000 with the new program.

PEREIRA: Scotty for president.

BERMAN: Wow.

PEREIRA: That's amazing. Well done. All right. With that we end our show and hand off to Carol Costello.

CUOMO: Kids these days.

PEREIRA: And "NEWSROOM."

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Have a great day.

NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me. Decision day in Wisconsin, it could be a game-changer in this presidential race. The frontrunners on both sides now fighting for a win.

Here's what's at stake. On the Democratic side, 86 delegates up for grabs. For the Republicans, 42 delegates. Victory on both sides gives the winner a major boost of momentum. Senator Ted Cruz's focus today slowing Donald Trump's path to clinching the nomination.

Trump looking to rebound after what many are calling the worst week of his campaign. He's already out on the campaign trail today. The first stop, there he is, in that Milwaukee diner.

And despite calls for him to get out, John Kasich says he ain't going anywhere.

We're following all of this with our team of political experts. Let's begin, though, with Jason Carroll. He's at a voting station in Brookfield, Wisconsin.

Good morning. JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning to you,

Carol. You know, they're expecting record turnout here in the state according to election officials. Some 40 percent of all voters expected to come out to polling places like this one. If that happens they are expecting some 1.75 million people to hit polling places. And when you think of Republican voters, I want you to think of what we call the wow states, of the wow counties here in Wisconsin. That would be Waukesha, Ozaukee and Washington Counties.

These are the three counties sort of in and around Milwaukee. It is very GOP in these counties. This is where we've seen the big push in these particular counties. This is where we've seen people like Ted Cruz and Donald Trump holding their town halls in these counties.

I want to bring in one young woman who has just casted her vote.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CARROLL: You're very welcome. So, Kim, you are waffling between Ted Cruz, Donald Trump. You just --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really didn't waffle. I was -- I had considered Trump here and there. I like some of the things that he stands for. But I really don't appreciate, you know, the way that he goes about it and picks on people, and I don't like -- I want somebody that has values and can debate well and has -- you know, it is just -- I think Ted Cruz is definitely the guy that can debate Hillary and, you know, come out with a good win.

CARROLL: Obviously Donald Trump with a rough week last week on his stance on abortion. I'm wondering how did you view what he had to say about that issue?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't like what he said. And for the first time he did backtrack. He did give that up a little bit. He's also said he was for partial birth abortion, too, a while back. He says that -- I honestly think he's a liberal. I think he's a liberal in sheep's clothing.

CARROLL: Liberal in sheep's clothing. How do you think he'll play here. Obviously he is behind in the poll here. You're behind Ted Cruz he says he's going to be able to pull out a win.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he's going to get close. A lot of my very conservative friends are voting for him. And the reason for that is they think that he's good for manufacturing and that he's good for jobs. The one thing I do think he will do, I think he will build a wall. And I do think that we do need some kind of -- you know, we do need something.

CARROLL: All right, Kim. Thanks --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

CARROLL: Thank you very much. Really appreciate you coming out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CARROLL: And speaking to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome.

CARROLL: Thanks again, Kim.

Once again, Carol, as you know, Donald Trump trailing in the polls here behind Ted Cruz. One poll showing him 10 points behind Cruz. But as you've heard Trump say in the past, he says, look, I've been behind in the polls in the past. I've come out ahead and he plans on doing that again here in Wisconsin -- Carol.

COSTELLO: We'll see. Jason Carroll reporting live from Brookfield, Wisconsin.

Let's head back to Milwaukee because, as I said, Mr. Trump is in that diner trying to rally up all the votes he can. What is this? This is a tweet. This is a tweet from Sara Murray about that diner. And there is Mr. Trump in the diner. All right. Actually he's leaving right now, the diner. At times it was kind of awkward in there but some voters did -- you know, invited him to sit down and they did talk to him so that was good for Mr. Trump.

This is what it looks like at Trump's event at the Milwaukee Theater last night. This photo was taken by CNN's Sara Murray. That's what this tweet. And it shows more than a few empty seats.

Let's right to CNN's Phil Mattingly. He has more on that. Good morning.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Carol. If that picture is any indication and if a lot of the polls are any indication, this could be a great day for Ted Cruz and really a great day for anybody who is against Donald Trump. Donald Trump making very clear people have counted him out before. And he's ended up on the right side of that primary.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:05:02] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Wisconsin, I love you. Go out and vote. I love you.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Final 24-hour blitz. The Republican candidates exchanging insults and fighting for votes ahead of a primary that could reshape the Republican race.

TRUMP: I've never ever met anybody that lied like him.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His security blanket is to insult people.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think they are becoming hysterical.

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump on damage control after the worst week of his campaign.

TRUMP: Every week it is the end of Trump. Then they walk in, sir, I don't know what happened but your poll numbers just went through the roof.

MATTINGLY: Rolling out female supporters and his wife Melania in a desperate bid to improve his standing with women.

MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: No matter who you are, a man or a woman, he treats everyone equal.

MATTINGLY: Senator Ted Cruz looking to capitalize on Trump's weakness.

CRUZ: I know that Donald it makes him feel really tough, it makes him feel like a very, very big man to threaten people. And in particular he seems to have a problem with strong women.

MATTINGLY: And once again denying tabloid reports accusing him of cheating on his wife.

CRUZ: That attack was complete and utter garbage. It was complete lies and it came from Donald Trump and his henchmen.

MATTINGLY: Trump and Cruz both calling for Republican rival John Kasich to drop out of the race.

TRUMP: He's 1 in 30. He ought to get the hell out. Honestly.

CRUZ: If you lose 49 states you ain't going to be the Republican nominee.

MATTINGLY: A proposal that Kasich flat-out rejected.

KASICH: He said he needs to get out because he's getting my votes. And I want to have my votes. He's -- this is not fair. I thought we got out of the sand box years ago.

MATTINGLY: The Ohio governor returning fire, accusing Ted Cruz of playing dirty politics in response to a series of attack ads the Cruz campaign rolled out this weekend.

KASICH: He smeared Ben Carson. He smeared Marco Rubio. He smeared Donald Trump and now he's smearing me. Don't push me around. You think you can push me around and get away with it, you are wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, Carol, it's not as if these 42 delegates that are at stake today are going to turn the race on its head if Ted Cruz wins all of them. But that's not the issue. For both John Kasich and for Ted Cruz it's about stopping Donald Trump from getting to 1237. That number of delegates that would allow him to secure the nomination before the convention. If Ted Cruz is able to get a big number today of those delegates, Donald Trump's pathway starts to shrink even more than it already is. That is what Ted Cruz cares about, that's what John Kasich cares about. That's what anybody who doesn't want Donald Trump to be president cares about and that is why Trump needs some kind of big comeback today in Wisconsin.

COSTELLO: We'll see what happens. Phil Mattingly, reporting for us this morning. Thank you.

OK. So to win Wisconsin, Trump actually needs women. So to win women, Trump unleashed Melania in Milwaukee. Not only did Mrs. Trump speak glowingly of her husband's love for women but he demonstrated his love for her with a public display of affection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. TRUMP: I'm very proud of him. He's hard worker. He's kind. He has a great heart. He's tough. He's smart. He's a great communicator. He's a great negotiator. He's telling the truth. He's a fighter. And if you elect him to be your president, he will fight for you and for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Mrs. Trump did not limit her appearances to campaign rallies. She also appeared on FOX News Monday where she responded to attacks on herself and Heidi Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. TRUMP: I have a tough skin. I think it's not fair that they are attacking family, wife or children. It is unfair. And sometimes I feel that, you know, the re-tweets sometimes get him in trouble. So just I say stay away from. You know stay away from re-tweets and --

(LAUGHTER)

D. TRUMP: She does say that.

M. TRUMP: And, you know, if he would only listen, you know, I come back every day and every time, but, you know, he's doing great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now CNN political commentators Tara Setmayer and Kayleigh McEnany. Kayleigh is also a Trump supporter.

Welcome to both of you.

TARA SETMAYER, FORMER CAPITOL HILL GOP COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: So, Kayleigh, I'll start with you, Mrs. Trump played to a mostly empty hall in Milwaukee. Is it too little too late? MCENANY: I don't think so. I think bringing her out is great. I

loved seeing the chemistry and interaction between her and Donald right there. And I think Donald needs to bring Ivanka out on the campaign trail. I have a lot of millennial women who have said to me, hey, I'm a liberal but I really like Ivanka Trump. She's a successful woman.

COSTELLO: She just had a baby, though.

MCENANY: She's a strong woman. She did. I know. But I hope she gets out on the campaign trail soon because I do think it does a lot for Trump with women to see these remarkably strong women and icons, to me, to live up to. So I really think that they are great for him and they need to be out more.

[09:10:09] COSTELLO: Tara, while Mrs. Trump tried to do damage control, Donald Trump again tried to discredit Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields on FOX News. Wouldn't firing Corey Lewandowski be more effective if he wanted to demonstrate his affection for women?

SETMAYER: I think that, you know, the fact that we're seeing he has to bring out his daughter who just had a baby is an act of desperation because he knows how poorly he's doing with women. I mean, 73 percent of women have an unfavorable opinion of Donald Trump. So yes, the Corey Lewandowski situation was something that I think made a lot of people very concerned about the way this campaign is being run.

There's a certain amount of thuggery involved here and when you manhandle a reporter, a female reporter on top of that, it doesn't look good. And then he stands by him. He digs in as opposed to just having him apologize. There is something innately wrong with apologizing apparently in Donald Trump's mind. But somebody needs to let him know that you are no less of a man if you actually apologize when you are wrong. And he should have done that. The campaign should have done that and this issue would have gone away completely.

And I'll tell you what, Michelle Fields, now this girl had -- she had to quit her job. She had to move from her house. She's getting death threats and people threatening to slit her throat. I mean, this is craziness and the Trump campaign continues to go after her. Why? I don't see why. This doesn't help them with women, it doesn't help them with anyone. Again it's a character issue.

COSTELLO: On another subject, Kayleigh, just to illustrate how ugly this campaign has become, Senator Ted Cruz in a FOX town hall again denied he had extramarital affairs. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: I have always been faithful to my wife. I love my wife. She is my best friend in the whole world. And this is the kind of garbage that the Trump campaign engages in. And you know why? Because they can't debate substitute.

I don't think it is a state secret that Donald's personal life has not been immaculate. But I have no interest in going there. I haven't gone there. I'm not going to go there. I don't care what Donald does in his personal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But, Kayleigh, he brought it up even though he doesn't really care.

MCENANY: Yes. You know, this story that he mentioned, it's despicable. You know, there's no place in politics for baseless accusations about Ted Cruz's marriage and his wife. Those are highly personal attacks. They are disgusting. And there is no place in the political process for that. But you know, I do resist the notion that Donald Trump had anything to do with this. There is no proof of that, too. So the bottom line is it was a baseless story. It's baseless to say that Donald Trump was involved. And I think it is a sad indictment of our political system right now that this is what we're talking about.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's get down to brass tax and reality. How does all of this play in Wisconsin where Donald Trump actually needs to win because if he doesn't it will make it -- well, it will be a harder road for him on the way to the Republican convention, Tara.

SETMAYER: Well, actually it's not playing well for him in Wisconsin. That's why he's losing and he -- I suspect he's going to lose pretty handily tonight there. On top of the fact that conservative talk radio is actually taking Donald Trump to task which is something that we really have not heard. It hasn't happened on a national level. So in Wisconsin, they have a really strong politically active electorate there. They've gone through three big gubernatorial elections and with the recall on Scott Walker.

The political infrastructure there, the political IQ of the voters there, is unlike most places that Donald Trump has experienced thus far, as far as where he's won. So it doesn't look good for him tonight. And yes, indeed, moving forward this will make it more difficult. New York is a little more favorable but that doesn't mean that delegates can't be had there and I mean, we're -- most likely we're going to see an open convention here especially after Ted Cruz wins tonight.

COSTELLO: All right. I had to leave it there. Tara Setmayer, Kayleigh McEnany, thanks to both of you.

Bernie Sanders looking to extend his winning streak not just today in Wisconsin but later this month in New York. And he said he's got Hillary Clinton looking over her shoulder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to get Hillary Clinton more nervous than she already is. She's already under a lot of pressure. So don't tell her this. But I think we win here, we win in New York state, we're on our way to the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: If Sanders takes Wisconsin, it would be his sixth victory in two weeks.

Chris Frates is in Green Bay with more on this. Good morning.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol. Yes. So Bernie Sanders is really looking to see if all the time and resources he put into Wisconsin's translates into votes today. He's leading Hillary Clinton here in Wisconsin. He's trying to run up the score on her. Get as many of those 86 delegates as he can.

Now Hillary Clinton for her part has been lowering expectations here. Her campaign reminding people that she lost to then Senator Barack Obama here in this state by double-digits. She's also pointing out that the majority white state of Wisconsin is a better playing ground for Bernie Sanders that it is for Hillary Clinton.

[09:15:05] But I can tell you, Hillary Clinton is not giving up. And she's been hitting Senator Sanders hard on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Sanders as I said has the same goal. He advocates for free college. Now, that means free for everybody, including Donald Trump's kids. I don't think we need to do that. I think we need to focus on where the problem is -- middle class family, working families, poor families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So that was Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail in New York yesterday. And there was no surprise why she is there. She has a double digit lead on Senator Sanders in her home state and she's trying to solidify that, because there are 250 delegates at stake in New York. That is second only really to California.

And remember Bernie Sanders is trailing Senator Clinton or Secretary Clinton by about 240 delegates. But it's not a winner-take-all propagation proposition. Bernie Sanders needs to get about 75 of the remaining pledged delegates to clinch that nomination. Hillary Clinton needs just 35 percent.

So, going forward, Bernie Sanders is really trying to upset Hillary Clinton in her home state. And the next big event will be right here on CNN, Carol, April 14th. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton agreeing just yesterday to debate, and this is the first time they are going to go head to head in more than a month, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Chris Frates live for us.

And as Chris said, the next debate between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton takes place Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern live from Brooklyn.

Still to come in THE NEWSROOM, Wisconsin radio hosts go toe to toe with Donald Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY BADER, RADIO HOST: I'm going to be very honest with you. I'm supporting Senator Cruz and I've been very critical of your campaign. But I have concerns about both your behavior and what I consider to be vague policy positions at times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: If that is how the interview began, one can only imagine what Mr. Trump said next. Jerry Bader joins me live after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:21:06] COSTELLO: Donald Trump has been a master at using the media. He's given credibility to the term "phoning it in", and by that he grants more phone interviews to anchors and reporters than any presidential candidate in history.

But there is one faction of the media Mr. Trump has not mastered, especially in Wisconsin, and that would be talk radio. Six conservative talkers in Wisconsin have plotted against Trump and they appear to be getting under his skin.

Listen to Green Bay talker Jerry Bader as he interviews Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is just the way he is. He's a lying guy. That's why I made up the name, Lyin' Ted Cruz.

JERRY BADER, HOST, "THE JERRY BADER SHOW" ON WTAQ: I want to move on to something else.

TRUMP: You can support him if you want because he's never going to get you where you want to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Jerry Bader, host of "The Jerry Bader Show" on WTAQ, joins me now.

Welcome, Jerry.

BADER: Good morning.

COSTELLO: What adjective would you use to describe that interview with Mr. Trump?

BADER: I think you need to invent one. But until then I would stick with petulant, childish, predictable and unproductive.

COSTELLO: Wow. So all six radio conservative talkers in Wisconsin are out to defeat Trump. They do not like Donald Trump. Was this an organized effort? BADER: Absolutely not. And I caught your word "plot." There are no

strategy meetings. We are pragmatic. We are quite frankly sophisticated enough not to buy his crap and we do that independently.

I'll say of the six people mentioned in that "New York Times" article, I call one a friend. Charlie Sykes, and that is it. And Charlie and I don't take notes and decide. And he's been high profile on as well.

We came to this conclusion, independently. Donald Trump for a myriad of reasons is not qualified to be president.

COSTELLO: Well, you said stopping Trump is a moral issue for you. Why?

BADER: Couple of reasons on that. One, I think something that has been underplayed is the race baiting. And yesterday -- last night I was on "Don Lemon Show" and we talked about a racist, a white supremacist robocall that went around here in Wisconsin and Trump's supporters want to say he can't help who supports him.

You know, that is really not true. You send out signals and certain people respond to them. That is the first thing.

The other thing is when you look at the temperament the way he treats people. Do you really want someone like that as the leader of the free world? And when asked on the issues he has no depth at all. That is why he got into trouble on the abortion issue here in Wisconsin. He's not pro-life. He has no idea how a pro=life candidate should answer that so he took his best guess and it was an awful one.

COSTELLO: You are supporting Ted Cruz, right? So, let's talk about Ted Cruz for a second.

He's a candidate that's not exactly enthusiastically supported by some who have actually endorsed him. Lindsey Graham comes to mind, right?

So why not support Kasich instead of an Ivy League guy whose wife word at Goldman Sachs?

BADER: You know, that's a good question. And here is my answer to that. Everyone who is supporting Ted Cruz has to have their own answer to that. My answer to that is this -- I'm not going to lie, a part of my support is tactical. I will do anything to stop Donald Trump.

That said, I feel fortunate we have Ted Cruz to support. Look, I've been very critical of Cruz in the past and quite frankly a year ago this time, he would not have been my first choice. I was extremely critical of the shut down strategy and some other things and, you know, the Goldman Sachs, whatever.

But in terms the strongest conservative still remaining that can get the nomination, which John Kasich can't, except at a contested convention and that is what his base -- that's what he's hoping -- [09:25:05] COSTELLO: Let me run this by you. There are some say Cruz

is doing well only because he's running as the anti-Trump. Is that really a reason to cast your vote for someone, because he can beat Donald Trump? But you don't really support everything else about him but you will hold your nose and vote for him anyway?

BADER: I can honestly say I'm not doing that. I can't speak to those that are. And no, is that an ideal situation for those who are doing that? No it isn't and I don't know what percentage of his support that is.

I can tell you that if I wasn't comfortable with the concept of President Ted Cruz, I would be supporting John Kasich.

COSTELLO: Just one more question on the subject of Kasich and Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has very high unfavorable ratings, right, 55 percent in the latest Bloomberg poll. And when you add in all the polls together, John Kasich actually does very well against Hillary Clinton. And Ted Cruz kind of ties her but doesn't do as well.

So again, why not support John Kasich? What is it about John Kasich that so turns people off that they won't cast a vote for him but they'll cast a vote for Ted Cruz as the anti-Trump guy?

BADER: I think it is two things. He's far more moderate as you go issue by issue compared with Ted Cruz. And at the moment, people -- I certainly think this is a factor. People just -- he doesn't have the look and feel of a winner as someone who can get the nomination. That's been Trump's brand, the more Trump wins, the more he wins, if you know what I mean. You get that brand and reputation as a winner.

And Kasich quite frankly -- and I interviewed Kasich as well. I'll admit he's gotten a complete bum rap on media coverage. Probably even more than some of the rest of the other candidates as Donald Trump sucked up all of the oxygen.

COSTELLO: So you say John Kasich got a bum rap. So why don't you support John Kasich more? I don't understand.

BADER: Again because he's more moderate than I am on the positions.

COSTELLO: How so? How is he moderate?

BADER: You know, I can go one by one by one. But it -- in all -- just in general, I tried to pick one in the time that we have here. Just about anything that as you have listened to the debates, John Kasich's goal is to be just in that center position, where he is appealing to the moderates that would otherwise vote for Hillary Clinton.

I think in terms of talking about reaching across the aisle, working with others. I mean, that is fine to a degree. And I'll admit Cruz is somewhat to a extreme on the other side. I'll concede that. But when it comes to standing on conservative principle. I believe Cruz is the better choice.

COSTELLO: OK. We'll leave it there. Jerry Bader, very interesting conversation, thank you so much.

Still to come in THE NEWSROOM, undecided voters in Wisconsin are almost out of time. I'll talk with a Democratic super delegate in the state who is also undecided.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)