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Mississippi Governor Signs Religious Freedom Bill; Sanders; Win Wisconsin, Win White House; 3 Things to Watch in Wisconsin Primary; Tim Robbin's Controversial Comments on Clinton, Supporters; Alabama Lawmakers Push for Governor's Removal. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Brad, what do you think?

BRAD WOODHOUSE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I think these laws are deplorable. They are state- sponsored discrimination. I think Democrats and progressives have done a great deal to highlight these issues. You look, Indiana had to -- people say it didn't go far enough but they had to do a fix to their law in Indiana. PayPal just announced they're not going to expand into Charlotte because of what occurred in North Carolina. And the elections will show this, the Republican Party is shrinking, it's becoming more isolated, and it's because of this type of thing. The thing it shows is the issues of being extreme in the Republican Party are not isolated to Donald Trump. This has been going on for years. It's going to harm Republicans in the fall and it's going to hurt them down ballot.

BROWN: Of course in those states they say we're not taking away anyone's constitutional rights. We'll have a legal discussion about that later in the show.

I want to pivot now to Wisconsin voting today. This really looks like a toss-up, Brad, for the Democrats. Bernie Sanders saying if he wins tonight and in New York, he wins the White House. What do you think about that?

WOODHOUSE: A couple things. You know, Wisconsin is kind of tailor made for Senator Sanders demographically. He should do well in Wisconsin. I don't believe he will win New York. But, look, let's talk about the real math in this race. He is several hundred delegates behind Hillary Clinton. But let's look at the popular vote. He's losing the popular vote in this election 58-42. If there's a revolution going on in this race, it's for Secretary Clinton. If there is enthusiasm in this race, it is for Secretary Clinton. 58-42 in the popular vote is a landslide, and he is losing this election to Hillary Clinton in a landslide among the popular vote.

BROWN: Nomicki, on that note, the Clinton campaign is saying Bernie Sanders is basically trying to overturn the will of the voters with the lead that she has right now. How do you argue with that?

NOMICKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST & EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: I think that, you know, there's a lot of sneaky math happening and with all due respect -- (CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Tricky math --

(CROSSTALK)

KONST: But there's a 200 point pledge delegate lead. The super delegates are not elected until after the primary. Most of the super delegates aren't even chosen yet. We keep using these numbers and saying there's pledged delegates and those who are wishy-washy. Most of them have not been elected yet. That is purposeful. The way it was designed because we want it to reflect the will of the people. Don't expect and I don't think the Sanders campaign expects many of these super delegates who are elected to turn against the voters. There's a 200 point pledge delegate lead now. Pledged delegates. But Bernie Sanders won Michigan. He won 100 delegates in one day. We have Wisconsin coming up, New York. She was winning by 30 percent in New York just two weeks ago and now she's up by 12 percent. You see strong organization on the ground in New York. He does very well in upstate New York, whether it's bordering Vermont or Buffalo which is very similar to the Midwest, and it's not just white voters.

This is where the sneaky messaging is coming out of Hillary Clinton's campaign. He's won with Latinos. He won in Hawaii, which is one of the most diverse states in the country.

WOODHOUSE: He didn't win in Nevada.

(CROSSTALK)

KONST: He did. It was the convention. He won the delegates.

WOODHOUSE: Did you say he won Nevada? He did not win the caucus in Nevada --

(CROSSTALK)

KONST: Well, it went back to the state.

WOODHOUSE: He did not win in Nevada --

(CROSSTALK)

WOODHOUSE: So he didn't win those delegates?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Bernie Sanders has won six out of the last seven races. Hillary Clinton has more pledge delegates. So both of them have a lot at stake tonight. That is what we do know. And we will have to see how it plays out. It's really anyone's guess at this point.

Brad Woodhouse, Nomicki Konst, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK) BROWN: A reminder, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will face off for a Democratic presidential debate live from Brooklyn, New York, on Thursday April 14th. That's next Thursday night at 9:00 eastern only on CNN.

And up next, tonight's primary in Wisconsin could be the most important political primary of this election season for the Republican field. We'll give you three things to watch for as the votes roll in. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:49] BROWN: Wisconsin, a true showdown under way right now. With the way things are going this election season, Wisconsin could prove to be the most important presidential primary so far.

Let's bring in CNN political director, David Chalian, to discuss the top three things to watch for tonight.

David, as I mentioned, we've seen a lot of primaries so far this election season. This one is especially critical. What is the first thing we should be watching for?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: First thing we're watching for is to see, is this Trump's speed bump? And I don't think we know that yet. Is it just a speed bump if he loses Wisconsin tonight? Or does that somehow dramatically shift the landscape of the Republican nomination race, I think we'll have to see how tonight unfolds. But it seems to me if Trump is not victorious tonight this is headed for a contested convention. If you look ahead to the states that are coming next, he's still positioned quite well, but we have to wait and see how the results sort of impact that future. Is this just a speed bump or something more significant?

The second thing is size matters. Take a look at the margins of victories tonight. Because if Ted Cruz really sort of demolishes Donald Trump if that were to happen, or if Donald Trump does not win any delegate tonight, again, he's not going to become second place guy, he's still going to be the delegate leader, but there's going to be a momentum that grows from a much more sizable win.

Does Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton somehow emerge with a big enough win, to sort of put an exclamation point on it, or because all the delegates are rewarded proportionately on the Democratic side, do they split the delegates and move on to have their next fight in New York?

[14:40:35] BROWN: If Trump loses, there's sort of a couple weeks, right, until the next big primary. What will that mean for him? Help or hurt him to that have gap in time?

CHALIAN: This is the third thing to watch for, this is the fallout. So having a two-week pause on electoral contests between this one and New York. Again, they're stand-alone contests as well, Pam, so they have this added import, because our attention is not divided to go only analyze the results in a bunch of different states, it's focused on that, so if Donald Trump, if indeed he somehow loses Wisconsin, if he emerges in a bruised way that all a sudden we start seeing polls in New York and then looking ahead in April, Pennsylvania, delegate, Maryland, does that start shifting the race? I think we have to see the size of victories tonight, then look at the fallout from it before we're going to know. What I do think we're going to know definitively tonight, if Cruz wins on the Republican side, this is headed for a contested convention in Cleveland.

BROWN: Really unbelievable. We will be watching tonight.

Good job just summing up why it's so important, why it's is so critical.

Thanks so much, David Chalian. Appreciate it.

CHALIAN: Thank you.

BROWN: Up next on this Tuesday, actor Tim Robbins speaking out for Bernie Sanders by making some controversial remarks about Hillary Clinton and her supporters. We'll speak live with someone who had to navigate the role of celebrities on the campaign trail. Don't miss this conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:45:58] OPRAH WINFREY, FORMER TV HOST: I'm here because of my personal conviction about Barack Obama and what I know he can do for America.

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: Shame on you, Hillary.

(CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: Sorry, hold on. Let me watch my tone.

CHUCK NORRIS, ACTOR: A principled, authentic conservative.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: That's why I'm with Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: I'm with Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: I'm with Hillary.

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: Join us.

UNIDENTIFIED CELEBRITY: I'm a huge Donald Trump supporter and so should you. Donald Trump for president. Hi, Donald, love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So the celebrity factor can be hit or miss in celebrity campaigns. Hollywood has always played a role in front and behind the scenes of presidential campaigns, but never as much as it has now, it seems. After Tim Robbins, on the stump in Wisconsin, for Bernie Sanders, says

Hillary Clinton's big win in the state of South Carolina doesn't matter and the southern state is about as significant as Guam when it comes to the general election. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM ROBBINS, ACTOR: Who's fooling who? Winning South Carolina in the Democratic primary is about as significant as winning Guam.

(LAUGHTER)

No Democrat is going to win in South Carolina in the general election. Why do these victories have so much significance?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So he caught a lot of flak for saying that.

I want to discuss with our CNN political commentator, Dan Pfeiffer. He also served as a senior adviser to President Obama.

Dan, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. You've been in this position before where you're dealing with celebrities who want to be involved. Having a Hollywood A-lister attached to your campaign, is it a good idea? Stars can be liabilities, no?

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Not every celebrity endorsement is equal. Oprah, one you highlighted there, was a very big deal for President Obama. I think campaigns have to recognize there's always risk here. You put a celebrity on stage, like Tim Robbins, that's problematic. Where celebrities can be helpful is getting press attention. Drawing big crowds at your events, like Katy Perry playing a concert before the event can draw big crowd there. What can be really helpful is if they campaign for the candidate when the candidate's not there. In 2008, a lot of the cast members of "The Wire" got together and did voter registration. As a communications staff, you have to be ready for the misfire, if you will.

BROWN: How do you rein them in, particularly at times like that, when there is a misfire?

PFEIFFER: Well, I think it's a little bit like you give them advice, then hold your breath and hope nothing goes wrong.

BROWN: If the celebrity does go off script from what you prep them to say, is there fallout with voters from what you experienced?

PFEIFFER: I think the value of celebrity endorsements is probably overstated. They can be useful tactically I think. Bernie Sanders is going to neither gain nor lose any votes because of what Tim Robbins said about South Carolina. It gets a lot of attention. Can help build a crowd. Ultimately, voters are smart enough to know, you know what, a hip-hop star or movie star or Tim Robbins says is interesting but not particularly informative. BROWN: I'm just curious. Some of these stars, you didn't know they

were political until you see them on the campaign trail. Do they normally come to the, you know, different campaigns or do the campaigns reach out to the celebrities? How does that dynamic work?

PFEIFFER: It's a little bit of both. Sometimes you meet them in the course of fund-raising, where they are supporters of the candidate or the party and so they'll be at an event usually in L.A. or New York and the campaign may ask them to do, you know, some campaigning or some other surrogate work. Sometimes the stars themselves, their people reach out to the campaign and say so-and-so feels very passionately about Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders or Barack Obama and they'd like to get involved in the campaign or help build a schedule where they think makes sense, where the celebrity would have the most influence and would best fit with the celebrity experience and style.

[14:50:10] BROWN: So a bit of a mix there.

Dan Pfeiffer, thank you very much.

PFEIFFER: Yes.

BROWN: Interesting perspective.

PFEIFFER: Thank you.

BROWN: Up next on this Tuesday, will Alabama impeach its governor? Taking steps to impeach the governor. He's been embroiled in a sex scandal that led to the resignation of one of his top aides. So could he be impeached? That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BENTLEY, (R), ALABAMA GOVERNOR (voice-over): You'd kiss me? I love that. You know I do love that. You know what, when I stand behind you and I put my arms around you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Many restaurant workers live paycheck to paycheck. Some are one crisis from financial disaster. An Atlanta couple who faced a hardship found a way to pay it forward in this week's "Impact Your World."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chef Ryan and his wife dreamed of starting their own restaurant.

JAN HIDINGER, RESTAURANT WORKER: We were working our supper club out of our home for about four years, until an up expected event. He was diagnosed with gallbladder cancer.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Their friends came together to raise money for them.

HIDINGER: For Ryan and I to stand there as this couple that was benefiting from all of this, what community can be about, literally impacted us.

Ryan and Jen started The Giving Kitchen --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was out of work for three months.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- a nonprofit that helps Atlanta restaurant workers facing financial emergencies.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: The money comes from fundraisers and Ryan's restaurant, which finally became a reality in 2015, with an even greater purpose. 100 percent of the profits go back to The Giving Kitchen.

Ryan passed away in 2014. But he lived long enough to set the table for what would become his legacy.

HIDINGER: He would be the first to say I don't deserve it, but he did, because he was just that good. And it's humbling to be able to stand at the restaurant that we dreamed of.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:55:00] BROWN: His legacy lives on.

Coming up on this Tuesday, moments ago, a big move to impeach the governor of Alabama. He is facing backlash over some kind of relationship with one of his advisers, a relationship caught on tape. You'll hear the audio up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Alabama lawmakers took steps to move forward with impeachment proceedings with Governor Robert Bentley. He is caught up in a scandal regarding allegations of an affair with his former top aide Rebekah Mason. Both denied having a physical affair. Mason resigned last week and Bentley says he will not step down. The governor did apologize after audio recordings surfaced of him apparently making sexual remarks to Mason.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENTLEY (voice-over): When I stand behind you and I put my arms around you and I put my hands on your breasts and I put my hands -- hey, I love that, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's get the latest on this possible impeachment with CNN's Polo Sandoval.

Polo, what's going on?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, The governor has apologized for those recordings. Some of the lawmakers in Alabama say that is not enough. The message they carry today saying actions have consequences and say he must be removed from office.

The governor releasing a statement immediately after. I want to read you a portion of that, where the governor says, quote, "There are no grounds for impeachment and I will defend myself and my administration from this political attack, today's press conference is nothing more than political grandstanding that was meant to take away from the attention from several of the agenda items."

We're told it is a complex, lengthy process. They have 53 votes for the House before it passes to the Senate side, where Senators would then, in turn, act as jury in the trial. If they don't see that support, they would have to put it up to the Alabama voters to decide.

But the main interest of the story now, we're looking at a highly conservative Republican governor in the state of Alabama being pressured by members of his own party to leave office.

BROWN: Polo Sandoval, thank you very much for that.

SANDOVAL: You bet.

BROWN: Top of the hour now. You're watching CNN. I'm Pamela Brown, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

Right now, Wisconsin primary voters are weighing in on who should be the nation's next president. And what they decide could reshape the race. Wisconsin might possibly buck national trends as front-runners in both parties are in a fight for first place.

We'll get to the Democrats in just a moment but first to the Republican side. 42 critical delegates are up for grabs and if Senator Cruz wins Wisconsin, Donald Trump's path to the 1237 delegates he needs to cinch the nomination will get much tougher.

Today, Trump in a switch from his usual ways, is downplaying local polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: The polls are busy, huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are busy.

TRUMP: We could have a big surprise tonight folks, big surprise. This feels like South Carolina.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: This feels like New Hampshire. I think you're going to have a big, big turnout. We're going to have a great surprise today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)