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Obama Calls Trump's Plan Impractical And Half Baked; Mississippi's Governor Just Signed A Controversial Religious Freedom Bill Into Law; Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton Will Face Off Again. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 05, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Let's continue this conversation with the former governor of Arizona and Trump supporter Jan Brewer.

Governor, thanks for coming on.

JAN BREWER (R), FORMER ARIZONA GOVERNOR: Thank you, Pamela. It's great to be with you.

BROWN: So first off, bottom line, do you think Trump's plan is realistic?

BREWER: Well, I haven't read the plan. I have just heard it on the news today. Bottom line it is a solution. At least he is putting ideas out there. And certainly we know that an enormous amount of money goes across our border. And if it works, good for us.

BROWN: But a solution others would say this is going to decimate the economy there and create a war between the U.S. and one of its diplomatic allies.

BREWER: Well, I think most Americans live in the United States are concerned about our economy and we have been not having such a hot economy these last seven-and-a-half years.

BROWN: Well, I think others would disagree and say that the economic forecasts are positive. Although we did hear Donald Trump say that we are headed towards a recession. Clearly different opinions.

But I want to stick to what we are talking about here with this plan from Donald Trump. President Obama called the plan impractical and half baked. Let's take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The notion that we are going to track every western union, you know, bit of money that's being sent to Mexico, you know, good luck with that. Then we have got the issue of the implications for the Mexican economy which in turn if it's collapsing, actually since more immigrants north because they can't find jobs back in Mexico. But this is just one more example of something that is not thought through and is primarily put forward for political consumption. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So there you heard President Obama saying this is purely for political consumption. This is impractical. What is your response to that? How would you make the plan work from what you have learned about it in the news as you say?

BREWER: Well, first of all, President Obama should have been resolving a lot of these issues and he had the opportunity for the seven-and-a-half that he has been in office and he has not done his job. And we are surely a lot of us are disappointed. We want something done for America and all of it basically stems from securing our borders. And if he would have done that, we wouldn't be facing all these issues.

And in regards to Donald's plan. If it works, fantastic. You know, at least he's coming up with solutions. And I think overwhelmingly, the people of America would support him. Would why would take our dollars and send them to Mexico through illegal means? The majority of those people sending their money back to Mexico are doing it to their families. And I understand why they do it, but that is not our problem.

BROWN: Well, but others say it's difficult to discern whether people who are sending money back to their families in Mexico are here illegally or not. It's very difficult to have a hard number on that.

But let's just look at the practicalities here. Donald Trump is saying that basically he would threaten Mexico by stopping money transfers from illegal immigrants in the U.S. so that Mexico would pay a lump sum for the wall. But how do you really target just people who are in the U.S. illegally sending money back to Mexico? What about all the American companies who transfer money back and forth? What about someone who's traveling to Mexico from the U.S. who, you know, doesn't have any money because their purse got stolen and their parents need to transfer the money? How do you hone in on just the illegal sending money to their families?

BREWER: Well, one would know if you're going to put out a policy like that, your policy people have reviewed all of that. And I don't know the intricate details regarding it. But bottom line is that he has said it and I think if they have got the resolution to it and if it works, it's fantastic.

BROWN: But as you know very well, Governor Brewer, that there is a local process before you can put a policy into play. Some would argue that this is even more executive overreach than what Republicans are saying President Obama's doing with the immigration plan and there's a legal process. You can't just prohibit people from receiving money from the U.S. financial system. There's a legal process.

BREWER: Well, you know, Mr. Trump can speak to that himself. You know, I'm not able today to really give you any kind of details on the subject, but certainly if it takes legality, I would think that a Republican president would work with a Republican Congress and they could get this resolved one way or the other. BROWN: And I have to just ask you this, governor, if you were

advising Donald Trump on this wall, what would you tell him and would you tell him to do anything differently?

BREWER: Well, I certainly believe that our borders need to be secured. And I think that we all realize and know that we have to have borders. And if we got the wall put up, we would resolve a lot of the other issues that we're all facing here. And it's got to happen. I've always said we have been encumbered especially in Arizona and other border states or the whole country, enormous costs in incarceration, healthcare, education. Incarceration costs us millions of dollars throughout our country. And the federal government is supposed to be paying for that and they're not. So the wall is a good idea. You know, secure our borders so we can get beyond this and then we can deal with the other issues that have come because of it:

[15:35:48] BROWN: All right, Governor Jan Brewer, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts. We really appreciate it.

BREWER: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: And up next on this Tuesday, breaking news out of Mississippi. A controversial religious freedom bill has just been signed into law. Critics are furious, saying it gives license to discriminate against the LGBT community. We will have the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:30] BROWN: Mississippi's governor just signed a controversial religious freedom bill into law. Critics say it gives residents the right to openly discriminate against the LGBT community. Supporters say it protects the religious beliefs of others. Mississippi joined a host other states who drafted similar legislation and also others who are known as so-called bathroom bills.

Here now to discuss all of this, we have our legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

Just, Danny, looking at this law from a legal standpoint, what is your take on it?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There are many takes. And as it is, since the case of (INAUDIBLE), sexual orientation and same-sex marriages are now within those traditional suspect classes like race, national origin and gender and a few others. So the question going forward is it appears pretty clear that a state can enact legislation prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and about half the states have chosen to do so. But the ongoing question here is can a state pass a law that allows discrimination or packaged the way this is, that prohibits penalizing an individual for refusing to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or the fact they're in a same-sex marriage?

BROWN: So what is the key question then, how good of a reason these states have to enact a law like this? CEVALLOS: If you're taking the position of the proponents of this

law, your view is that I have a particular religious belief, and I should be protected from participating in an activity that goes against my personal sincerely held religious tenets. The only flaw in that reasoning, while there may be several flaws, but the one flaw in that reasoning is the idea that for decades states have forced participants in the marketplace, commercial entities, to refrain from discriminating against people based on other reasons like race and national origin. So it's certainly within a state's power to force somebody in the private marketplace to serve someone of a different race or a different national origin.

So as we go on, now that overfell has come and gone and sexual orientations become a protected class, the ongoing debate will be what happens when these two constitutional principles come head to head. And on one side, you have that notion of religious freedom and not being forced to participate in something that goes against the religion. And on the other side, you have the relatively new constitutional right to engage in same-sex marriage or just to not be discriminated against based on your sexual orientation.

BROWN: Yes, we saw that play out in Kentucky right after the (INAUDIBLE) clerk who refused to issue the same-sex marriage licenses. But why don't have more states have nondiscrimination protections that cover sexual orientation? And what's the likelihood of getting any passed alongside these religious freedom bills?

CEVALLOS: Well, simply put, these statutes are relatively new because the concept of sexual orientation as a protected class is itself relatively new. Traditionally, it was not considered within the realm of protected classes like race and national origin and others. So as time moves on and people, the constituency changes its mind about sexual orientation as a protected class, increasingly states are passing this legislation.

Although Mississippi historically has been near the bottom in terms of passing state laws that protect against discrimination or protect people from being discriminated against based on those protected classes. So then Mississippi's argument here is going to be we have chosen to enact a law that protects religious beliefs. But the ultimate question is, is protecting religious beliefs, does that extend to permitting private citizens to discriminate against protected classes?

BROWN: Really interesting legal discussion.

Danny Cevallos, thank you.

CEVALLOS: Thank you.

BROWN: And by the way, any moment now, Hillary Clinton is expected to take the stage in Brooklyn, New York. Both her and Bernie Sanders already looking ahead to the next primary. We will have a live report.

Also, it's being called the shock of a lifetime, but what was it like for the parents who had two sons playing against each other last night? One son making the game-winning shot? Can you imagine? I'll talk to them straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:49:04] BROWN: Well, it's anyone's guess which Democrat will win today's Wisconsin primary. But one thing is for sure, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton will face off again and CNN is hosting. Clinton mentioned the April 14th event on "the View" today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, we're going to have a debate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, April 14th.

CLINTON: I'm glad that's finally settled. We're going to have a debate right here in New York. I'm very proud of the campaign that senator Sanders and I have run because we've run it on issues compared to insults. We've tried to stay on issues and where we stand and what we do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That's right. Five days before the New York primary, Sanders who is from Brooklyn will debate Clinton who represent the New York in the U.S. Senate. I'm going to turn now to CNN's Jeff Zeleny who is live in Brooklyn where Clinton's town hall for women is scheduled to start at any moment now.

So Jeff, for such a tight race in Wisconsin, neither Democrat is in the state today. Why is that?

[15:50:00] JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, it is interesting. I mean, in one respect, the Wisconsin primary is already in the rearview mirror. Yes, both campaigns still for several more hours. You have both campaigns still have teams on the ground there. But the Clinton campaign in particular has been trying to turn the page, really, for several days.

They know that, at least they believe Wisconsin is not a strong state for them. There's one number that they still remember from the 2008 campaign, that's 18 percent. That is the number she lost to Barack Obama by in Wisconsin. Now, all of the Democrat there's that I've been talking to throughout the day, Pamela, believe it will be much closer than that. The Clinton campaign has been doing a very good job managing expectations saying that Bernie Sanders is indeed ahead.

But the reality here is New York Senate race, even though she is saying she doesn't have to win it, she does have to win it. This is her fire wall. This is her, you know, adopted home state, where she was twice elected to the Senate. That's why she has really been campaigning quite aggressively here. She will be holding a town hall meeting talking about gun violence and other things here in Brooklyn. And really, will be focusing on New York in the next two weeks. Two weeks from today, the New York primary is, Pamela. That is such a big cash of delegates, 247 delegates. That is why Hillary Clinton is here in New York today.

BROWN: And it is interesting, there is the ad that the Clinton camp had really focused on Donald Trump that almost looked more like a general election ad, Jeff. And now, she is talking about him, more recently on "the View" today. Let's take a listen to that. And I want your reaction on other end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I just don't understand what he thinks is the role of somebody running for president. I don't think it is to scapegoat people, divide people, engage in this kind of, you know, prejudice and paranoia. And so, it's not only women and we who should be concerned. It's everybody, because of the way that he conducts himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So what's your take, Jeff, on her reaction to Trump?

ZELENY: Pamela, it is clear that one thing the best thing, perhaps, that Hillary Clinton believes can unify the Democratic Party and fire up her own base of supporters is Donald Trump. The realization that Donald Trump could be the Republican nominee or even the president is going to be her rallying cry here throughout this Democratic primary campaign and into the general election, should she win. That is one person who can perhaps do what she's been unable to do, and really get some enthusiasm behind her candidacy, at least to the degree of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump here.

But that is why she will be talking about Donald Trump everywhere she can go because he does divide people. And that message that she gave today on "the View" is something she'll be talking about in advertising as well as to voters for many weeks and months to come -- Pamela.

BROWN: Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for that. We appreciate it.

And up next on this Tuesday, two brothers facing off for the national title, one of them takes that miracle shot to win the game. For the family of two brothers competing against each other, just how difficult was it to watch that game? We'll ask them up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:57:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Villanova trying to go length of the court. Three seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To Jenkins for the championship!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Truly unbelievable. That was Villanova's Chris Jenkins hitting the game-winning shot at buzzer in last night's championship game. His brother, Nate Brit Jr. Watched as he was playing for North Carolina.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

BROWN: It was a gut-wrenching game or the parent of siblings, as you can imagine. And they're joining us now, Melanie and Nate Britt Sr.

Thank you so much for joining us. And first off a big congratulations to you.

NATE BRITT SR., SONS PLAYED ON OPPOSING TEAMS IN NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP: Thank you.

MELANIE BRITT, SONS PLAYED ON OPPOSING TEAMS IN NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP: Thank you. Thank you so much.

BROWN: Well, I have to say, there is such a fascinating story, just the fact they were both in the championship game and then this is just, you know, icing on the cake, the fact that Chris made that winning shot.

N. BRITT: You have one that's on incredible high and then you have the other son that's on an incredible low because everybody wants to be a national champion. I mean, that's huge. And to see one -- put his head down, and walk off in defeat, you know, that, I'm telling you, that -- in the pit of my stomach, it hurt.

BROWN: At the end there where it was so close, what was that like for you?

M. BRITT: I had a lot of emotions before the game started. And I could not sit in my seat to watch the game. So I walked the concourse during the whole entire game and I saw the game-winning shot by Chris on the monitor actually.

BROWN: It was just too nerve-racking to be in there, I don't blame you. And I want to just talk about how Chris Jenkins came into your life several years ago. How did that happen, because you are his legal guardian, right?

N. BRITT: Our team (INAUDIBLE) basketball and we played them. And we had a chance to meet the family. And about nine non months later they reached out to us, and they said that they had a son by the name Chris Jenkins. And I said, yes, I'm well aware who he is. And they asked if we would mind if he would work out with our kids because they are going to be transitioning back and forth from South Carolina to John Hopkins hospital which in Baltimore and he would stay with us, and work out and practice with us. That was pretty much all she wrote. And he was 10, 11 years old at the time. And we became his legal guardian when he was 11 and he's been with us ever since.

BREWER: This is the kind of shot that will be talked about for years. How is Chris handling the fame and the attention?

N. BRITT: He is loving it right now. He is basking in the glow. I mean, and I used to always tell him. I said you always want to be prepare that one moment and that one moment came last night for Chris and he knocked down the biggest shot of his life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, best to him. He was definitely prepared. What a game, even for myself a tar heels fan, UNC alum.

I'm Pam Brown. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.