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Presidential Race; Sanders Wins in Wisconsin. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: "Amanpour" is coming up next. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much, my friend. Great to be with all of you on this Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Ah, politics. An already unprecedented presidential election has just taken one huge step toward an event the nation has not seen in generations, a contested convention. The likelihood of that just rose after the frontrunner suffered a double-digit defeat in the Wisconsin primary. And I'm talking about both parties here.

First up, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton lost to Bernie Sanders by 14 points. She still, though, has a strong lead toward the party nomination, but Sanders' Wisconsin win, his six in a row, mind you, is shaking the Clinton's camp confidence.

Meantime, opponents of Republican frontrunner Donald Trump may now be at their most confident after his crushing defeat as well. Senator Ted Cruz beat Trump 48 percent to 35 percent. The Cruz victory now forces Trump to rack up even bigger wins looking ahead if he is trying to reach that magic number before the convention in July in Cleveland.

And take a look at this. Trump would have to win 60 percent of the delegates in the remaining primaries and caucuses to get to that 1,237 delegate number. All of this makes the stakes for the primary in two weeks here in the state of New York even higher. And that is where Ted Cruz is today specifically at an event at the - in the Bronx.

Guys, are these live pictures as we're watching everyone ready to roll? All right, these are live pictures. We're all watching and waiting. We'll take the top of it as soon as we Senator Cruz there, just to hear some of his remarks as, listen, the primary may be two weeks away, but everyone is stumping for votes starting today.

Let me bring in my panel as we have one eye on that event. I have John Nichols standing by, national affairs correspondent for "The Nation," Republican strategist Lisa Boothe, who is here in New York.

Oh, here he is. Let's go to Ted Cruz.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thrilled to be here at a small business. We just had a tremendous meeting with pastors here in the Bronx, with Hispanic pastors, with African-American pastors. And I'm so encouraged after what was a terrific victory yesterday in Wisconsin. It was a turning point, I believe, in this entire election. It culminated four states in a row in the last two weeks where we have beaten Donald Trump over and over and over again.

And, you know, just three weeks ago in Wisconsin, we were behind by ten points. The media was saying we couldn't win Wisconsin. Wisconsin was a perfect state, we were told, for Donald Trump to win. And if you look at the election results last night, we won across the state. We won women. We won men. We won young people. We won every income group. What we saw is we saw Republicans come together and unite, stand united.

And that's really what this election is all about. It is about unity. If we come together, we're going to win. If we remain divided, we will not. And I could not be more encouraged.

And for the first question, I'll turn to the birthday girl.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. Thank you.

CRUZ: Happy birthday.

SERFATY: Thank you.

Donald Trump, last night, reacting to the result in Wisconsin, he called you a Trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination. What's your response?

CRUZ: Well, you know, Donald can always be counted on to take the high road and to demonstrate class. If he wants to engage in insults, he's welcome to do so. He gets very angry when the voters reject him.

He has now lost in four states in a row. He lost a landslide election in Utah. He lost all six delegates that were elected in Colorado. He lost badly in North Dakota. And yesterday in Wisconsin, a state that he bragged the day before - the day before yesterday, Donald Trump promised a, quote, "big victory in Wisconsin." And not only did he not get a big victory, but the men and women of Wisconsin resoundingly rejected his campaign.

And the reason is simple. Donald has no solutions to the problems we're facing. He likes to yell and scream and insult and curse and his statement last night was consistent with that. But he has no real solutions to bringing jobs back to America. My top priority as president will be bringing jobs back to America, expanding economic opportunity, raising wages for people who are struggling, people in small businesses.

You know, today, for the first time since they've been keeping track of the data, more small businesses go out of business than are formed. Two-thirds of all new jobs come from small businesses. You know, when my dad came from Cuba in 1957, he was just 18 years old. He was penniless. He had $100 in his underwear and he got a job at a place not too different from this restaurant here, washing dishes making 50 cents an hour.

[14:05:11] Now, why did he wash dishes? He couldn't speak English. And you didn't have to speak English to take a dish, put it under hot water and scrub it. It's people like my dad, it's the teenage immigrants, it's people who are struggling who have been hurt so badly in the Obama/Clinton economy. Those are the people I'm fighting for.

And the reason Donald lost so resoundingly in Wisconsin is he has no solutions, no answers for bringing jobs back, for raising wages and we are running a campaign based on a positive, optimistic, forward- looking conservative agenda to bring jobs and opportunity back to America.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, John Kasich -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are dead last here in New York. Senator -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE). (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CRUZ: Look, our community, the Hispanic community, is a (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). I have the problem of the second generation immigrant. I learned Spanish the same time I did English. I mean when I was a little kid, (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). But to be honest, what I really spoke at home was Spanglish. And, you know, as you know, in our community, that's true with just about everyone and certainly their kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the question -

CRUZ: So, no, I heard - I heard the question. I understood the question. And I will say, listen, in the Hispanic community, we have shared values in our community. The values that resonate in our community are faith, family, patriotism. You know, a lot of people don't know the rate of military enlistment among Hispanics is higher than any demographic in this country. And I think the most powerful value in the Hispanic community is the American dream.

We're a community who - we're filled with optimism. When my dad came to America from Cuba, when he - when he couldn't speak English and was washing dishes, he was filled with hopes and dreams for the future for his kids, for his grandkids.

And my messages to the Hispanic community is the very same as my message is to every community, which is, we can get back to that economic opportunity that Americas has enjoyed for centuries. We can get back to the nation that we've been where anybody can start with nothing and achieve anything. You know, the Hispanic community has been hurt and has been hurt horribly by the failed Obama economy.

Now, I recognize that many in the press, they try to convey any Republican as somehow mean and nasty and they try to portray any Democrat as a champion of the Hispanic community. Seems to me people ought to ask then, why is it that under Barack Obama the rich have gotten richer. The top 1 percent in this country earn a greater share of our income than any year since 1928. Those with money and power have gotten fat and happy under the Obama administration.

I'll tell you something that I say often, which is an unusual thing to hear a Republican say, I agree with Bernie Sanders. In Wisconsin just the other day, I visited with a young lady who was a Bernie Sanders supporter and I told her, I said, listen, I actually agree with Bernie. When Bernie says, the fix is in, that Washington is corrupt, that career politicians in both parties get in bed with the lobbyists and special interests and help the rich and powerful, I agree with that.

But the question I asked her is - as I said, listen, where I disagree with Bernie is on a solution. If the problem is that Washington is corrupt, that government is corrupt, why would you want more government? Why would you want to expand government's power? What I want to do is take the power out of Washington and back to the people. So my message to the Hispanic community is, we can have greater opportunity. We can have more jobs. We can have higher wages by taking the burdens of government off of small businesses.

And I'll give you one other message that I think is critically important in the Hispanic community, and that is school choice. I think school choice is the civil rights issue of the 21st century. Sadly, the modern Democratic Party, because they are in hock to the union bosses and the teachers unions, they fight against schools choice at every turn and yet in the Hispanic community and the African-American community, there are generations of kids that are trapped.

Education is the gateway to the American dream, and I believe that every child in America has a right to have access to a quality education, has a right to learn and to develop and education is how you achieve the American dream. And as president, I will be the first president we have ever had who fights for school choice, for every child, regardless of race, ethnicity or wealth or zip code, that every child has a right to a quality education

[14:10:05] (CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question. Last question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New polling shows that you are dead last here in New York. Two and a half months ago you railed against New York values. How do you expect to do well in this state or to win if that's your goal?

CRUZ: Well, you know, the interesting thing about polling is it can change and it can change quickly. Three weeks ago in Wisconsin we were ten points down. We just won a landslide victory, winning by 13 points, sweeping the state.

Here in the state of New York, you know, when I talked about New York values, it was interesting, just a minute ago I was meeting with a significant number of Hispanic pastors, of African-American pastors here in the Bronx and one of those pastors, Senator Ruben Diaz (ph), who is a Democratic state senator who hosted the gathering, Senator Diaz said, I know exactly what you mean by New York values. We fight them every day in our community. We fight them. They're the values that led, for example, Mayor Bill de Blasio, liberal Democrat upon getting elected mayor, one of the first things he did was to try to shut down charter schools in Harlem because he is captive to the union bosses who control him. So one of his first actions was to try to throw young African-American and Hispanic kids out of the schools that were giving them hope and giving them a lifeline.

Those are the values. It's the values of the liberal Democratic politicians that have been hammering the people of New York for a long time. They've been suffering -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not call them liberal values? Why call them New York values when you're in New York campaigning?

CRUZ: Well, let's - let's be clear, the people of New York know exactly what those values are. They're the values of liberal Democratic politicians, like Andrew Cuomo, like Anthony Weiner, like Eliot Spitzer, like Charlie Rangel, all of whom Donald Trump has supported, given tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. If you want to know what liberal Democratic values are, follow Donald Trump's checkbook. He has been funding these policies.

Look, for people in western New York, who would like to have jobs, western New York you've got the (INAUDIBLE) shale (ph), you've got tremendous natural resources. In Pennsylvania, we're seeing jobs, we're seeing economic opportunity because Pennsylvania they're developing those resources. Liberal Democratic politicians won't allow New Yorkers to develop those resources. Apparently they don't think New Yorkers want jobs. And Donald Trump has been funding those liberal Democratic politicians.

And let me give you one more example of the values of the liberal Democrats that have been so hurting New York. The actions of people like Mayor Bill de Blasio, who in every time there is a confrontation between criminals and police officers, the liberal Democrats side with the criminals and the looters and the rioters rather than the police officers. I'll tell you, the moment when the brave men and women in blue of the NYPD stood up and turned their backs on Mayor Bill de Blasio, I cheered for those New York cops. And I'll tell you, people all across America did. That spoke to the entire country that when you have politicians that will not stand with police officers and firefighters and first responders, and for that matter, soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines, that's an example of how these liberal politicians have forgotten who we are.

I'll tell you, as president, I will always stand with the police officers and the firefighters and the first responders and everyone who risks their lives to keep us safe. And those values are American values. They are the values of the people of New York who are frustrated with liberal Democratic politicians who keep hammering the people of this great state.

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, guys.

BALDWIN: All right, Senator Ted Cruz in the Bronx at this hour answering just a couple of reporter questions.

Let me just cut through all of that. I think the most significant out of the gate from our correspondent, Sunlen Serfaty, who was essentially asking him, and we heard Senator Cruz, for the first time, publicly, you know, responding to Donald Trump's response of the statement last night from his loss, essentially accusing the Cruz campaign of being not just a puppet but a Trojan horse, stealing the nomination, perhaps planting the seeds of something we could start hearing from the Trump team. And so essentially Ted Cruz said, you know, Trump is yelling and insulting and trying to curse his way, but he really offers no specific solutions.

So with that, let me bring in my panel. "The Nation's" John Nichols, republican strategist Lisa Boothe and CNN political commentator Van Jones.

And, John, let me just begin with you. What did you make of - what did you make of Ted Cruz's response to Trump?

JOHN NICHOLS, NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, "THE NATION": Well, you know, look, in that overall exchange there, which is sort of a classic New York moment, taking him from Wisconsin into that much more intense media environment, you saw Cruz do some things very well. But when he gets to Trump, and when he tries to attack Trump, I'm not sure how well he does it because, you know, he - he has this anger at Trump, just as Trump has an anger at him, and instead of the sort of slightly - or at least somewhat inspiring guy when he's speaking in Spanish and really talking about his own history and what he'd like to do, with Trump he's getting kind of down and dirty and New York politics there, and not saying that is New York politics always, but I think maybe what he thinks it is, and I don't think that's going to work for him. And so my sense is that he -

[14:15:25] BALDWIN: In New York.

NICHOLS: He actually didn't handle it so well. Yes, I don't think he handled it quite so well as he might have. I would have - I would have suggested the high road there.

BALDWIN: OK. Well, that hasn't been taken in a while. Let me just -

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That road is empty.

BALDWIN: Marinate on that one.

JONES: That - that road has got a - it's empty. No traffic.

BALDWIN: Yes. Van, I'm coming to you, but, Lisa -

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The road not taken.

JONES: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: On that point, though, a lot of people have pointed out, for months, though, the incredible ground game, the organization from the Cruz campaign and how they've really been smart and sort of outmaneuvered Trump. And I'm wondering, though, if - and I don't even know if demise is the right word, but the Trump demise. I mean he did - he did lose double digits in Wisconsin.

BOOTHE: Right.

BALDWIN: Do you think that's being exaggerated today?

BOOTHE: I do. I mean, look, people have been talking about the demise of the Donald Trump campaign since he announced, right? Nobody took it seriously. If you look back last fall, there's only a million dollars spent against him. And then if you look after New Hampshire, there's been over 900 - or 900 percent increase in spending against Donald Trump. People are obviously taking him seriously now as the frontrunner of the campaign.

And I think what we learned last night are some of the shortcomings of the Donald Trump campaign. The lack of the organization. We saw the strength of the Ted Cruz campaign, his organizational structure, getting to the state, running an aggressive campaign, understanding the opinion leaders in the state, like Charlie Sikes (ph) and some of those influential people as someone who worked in Wisconsin politics, those influence, even those radio hosts play a significant role within the Republican Party, within the Republican electorate.

BALDWIN: And that's what Trump was pointing out.

BOOTHE: But we can't overstate this -

BALDWIN: Right.

BOOTHE: Because look ahead at April 19th and you have New York.

BALDWIN: New York.

BOOTHE: Donald Trump's been polling above 50 percent. And you saw with the latest poll, Kasich is in second right now.

BALDWIN: Throw up the poll on that.

BOOTHE: Yes.

BALDWIN: We have the Monmouth poll, just so you all see. First of all, massive numbers for Trump in the 50s.

BOOTHE: Right.

BALDWIN: I don't even know if he's been that high. Kasich in second. Cruz in third. But to Cruz's point, you know, polls are wrong. He was polling ten points behind in Wisconsin and look what he did there.

Van Jones, New York, New York, New York.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: When is the last time the New York primary has been this important? JONES: Never. Never. For the Republicans, never, because they've just

started maybe 20 years ago even having one.

I thought Cruz made a mistake just now.

BALDWIN: How so?

JONES: He doubled down on the New York values attack. That is foolish. I don't care who you are, he's not running against Bill de Blasio, he's running against New York values. That makes no sense. And how do you know it makes no sense? Donald Trump just tried this in Wisconsin. Donald Trump, in attacking Scott Walker -

BOOTHE: Right.

JONES: Wound up attacking Wisconsin, saying how much Wisconsin sucks.

BALDWIN: Didn't work.

JONES: And they consolidated everybody against him. Ted Cruz apparently didn't understand his own success in Wisconsin, getting Donald Trump saying, you know, basically bad stuff about Wisconsin. He came to New York doing the same thing. He's got to get off of that and start talking about stuff that matters. People in New York know Donald Trump. They know how erratic he is. They know what a nut case he can be. Talk about that. Don't talk about how you're right to attack New York values.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: That was the dumbest thing I've seen him do and he's a very smart guy.

BALDWIN: So glad you're holding back. This is why we love Van Jones.

BOOTHE: Subtlety.

BALDWIN: I have Sunlen Serfaty. She was there. She was the one who was just asking the first question to Ted Cruz.

So, Sunlen, let me just bring you in and happy birthday, by the way. You know, listen, you hear Van's point. What did you make of Ted Cruz's whole exchange just then?

SERFATY: Well, I thought it was certainly interesting, Brooke, that when I asked him about Donald Trump, it didn't feel that Senator Cruz went as far in really chastising his response to the Wisconsin results last night and certainly didn't go as far as he usually does. And I think that's in large part because he's really trying to refocus his campaign, almost take a rhetorical pivot towards the general election, really not wanting to spend, it seemed, much time devoted to responding to Donald Trump.

But he did, when I asked him about that statement coming from the Trump campaign last night, where they called him basically a Trojan horse being used by party bosses, when I - when I read him what the Trump statement said, he responded and he said almost sarcastically, like it's always nice to know the Donald Trump campaign is performing with class, and kind of pivoted and said basically that's the reason why he lost Wisconsin. So I thought that was an interesting pivot. To me he didn't seem to bite as much as he normally does going after Donald Trump.

You know, today he's trying to start anew here in New York. He's spending the next 48 hours here campaigning in Donald Trump's home turf here at a restaurant in the Bronx. He'll head to an area outside of Albany tomorrow. The Cruz campaign feels good about where they are in New York, although we should point out he is well behind in the polls, has a steep uphill climb. They believe that they can gain some delegates because delegates are awarded in this state on congressional district by congressional district.

[14:20:09] So they already have a team on the ground here. They are working to compete hard. Of course, that is a steep climb for the Cruz campaign.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you.

And just turning, Lisa, to you, and to Van, sort of close this out. We'd be remiss in not mentioning John Kasich as we saw in the Monmouth poll.

BOOTHE: I know, poor guy.

BALDWIN: He did place in second ahead for New York. But, again, it could be anyone's primary. I'm wondering, you know, I talked to Governor Kasich a couple of weeks ago and I said, sir, when are you going to have a come to Jesus with yourself. And he said, Brooke, I have a come to Jesus with myself very single day. I'm wondering, despite the fact that he's looking good so far, apparently there's a meeting with donors, maybe this afternoon, reportedly. What's his move? To either of you.

BOOTHE: Well - well, I mean, look, yes, you're looking at a guy who has only won his home state. And, mind you, this is a guy who has represented Ohio in some capacity off and on for almost 38 years, right? That - that was the - the primary in Ohio was the 13th contest he has won in this state and he won by double digits. But I mean the fact that it was even a contest in his home state, where he's represented for almost 38 years -

BALDWIN: Right.

BOOTHE: Is a problem in itself. But I do think he's holding out hope that it does get to a contested convention, which is seeming increasingly likely, especially after Ted Cruz's win last night. And so he's holding out hope that you have folks like Lindsey Graham who have said that choosing between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz is like either getting shot or poisoned. He's holding out hope that individuals like that will sway things potentially in his favor and he might walk away with the nomination. BALDWIN: Lindsey Graham choosing to drink the poison in endorsing Ted

Cruz.

JONES: Yes.

BOOTHE: Well, yes. I think, yes.

BALDWIN: Finally from you.

JONES: Kasich will do better going forward. You may have seen sort of - maybe the high water mark for someone like Cruz. Cruz is not going to do well in a lot of these states coming up because he's just too conservative and it's just unvarnished. Kasich will do better. The reality is that Kasich is - has exactly the hope that we just described, that once you get to the third, the fourth, the fifth ballot and nobody's there that people will recognize his great work. I remember when being a governor who was successful mattered in American politics. I think he's hoping that some day those days will return.

BALDWIN: Will the last governor please stand up.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: They're all just about out.

Van Jones, Lisa Boothe, thank you two.

BOOTHE: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And, John Nichols, a pleasure, sir. Thank you all so much.

Coming up next, despite a double-digit win in Wisconsin, Bernie Sanders is on the defensive today for what he did not say specifically when pushed on policy. This as his campaign manager issues this stern message to the Clinton campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what I would say to them, which is, you know, don't destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary's ambitions to become president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wait until you see how Hillary Clinton has just responded to that moments ago in a one-on-one interview with us here at CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (laughing). I mean it's just ludicrous on the face of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:27:02] BALDWIN: Well, although she lost to Bernie Sanders in the state of Wisconsin, Hillary Clinton is laughing today. She's laughing at some of the claims now coming from the Sanders camp that she is, in fact, dividing the Democratic Party. Steadfast in her confidence that her delegate count is insurmountable, she talked last hour to my colleague, Chris Cuomo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": You may have heard that Senator Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said something very interesting, inflammatory on our air here saying that, you know, the Clinton campaign, Secretary Clinton, they need to be careful not to destroy the Democratic Party merely in pursuit of her own ambition to be president. Very strong words. Your response to that idea?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (laughing). Well, I mean, it's just ludicrous on the face of it, you know. I have been campaigning for Democrats, fundraising for Democrats, recruiting Democrats to run and win for a really long time. I think about 40 years. And Senator Sanders, by his own admission, has never even been a Democrat.

CUOMO: How much more substance does he need other than, I want to break up the banks. We'll figure out how. I want to go after ISIS. I'll figure out where I interrogate them.

CLINTON: (laughing). Well, it's going to be up to the voters to decide, but, you know, we -

CUOMO: But a lot of people would say, secretary, it's about what you want to do. You'll figure out how later.

CLINTON: Yes. Yes. Well, that's not the way I've seen it work over a lot of years and a lot of reading of history. I think the presidents who are successful know what they want to do and they know how to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, let's get some reaction from Barbara Lawton. She's the former lieutenant governor of Wisconsin and a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Lieutenant governor, welcome.

BARBARA LAWTON (D), FORMER WISCONSIN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Good morning - or afternoon, I guess.

BALDWIN: Afternoon. It's all right, it's all running together. It's been - it's been a crazy election cycle.

Let me - let me begin, first, obviously, congratulations for the big Bernie Sanders win in your home state last night.

LAWTON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: But to, you know, Hillary Clinton's point here, obviously laughing off the notion that the Sanders camp is saying that she is dividing the party. I mean just do the math, she has a tremendous lead in terms of the delegate count. Why do you think she's dividing the party? Do you agree with that?

LAWTON: I don't know if I would use those terms, but I would say that this is the moment for great caution to hold the party together. And the party needs a larger definition. She's asserted and reasserted that she is an establishment Democrat and that she's been out there working and raising money for Democrats. But Bernie Sanders just won the state of Wisconsin by 14 points and he won 71 of 72 counties and lost the last county by only three points. And what we're seeing - and he won seven of the last eight states, is he's really getting a mandate from people who are coming and voting in Democratic primaries, but they're asking for something, a bolder vision from the Democratic Party.

And their agenda is very important and we need to think about it and embrace it. And many of those people feel that what we're living out now as we watch the hallowing out of the middle class is precisely the result of incremental politics and chewing around the edges of these issues.

[14:30:12]