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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Presidential Race; Alabama Governor Scandal. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:21] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

And I am not going to shout the election headline of the day, because I know you have probably heard it ad nauseam already. Yes, Bernie Sanders won Wisconsin. Yes, so did Senator Ted Cruz. Neither is his party's frontrunner. And that's the bigger issue. They both get to make victory speeches and hold up newspaper front pages, but, really, how much does Wisconsin mean in the only race that matters, and that is the delegate race.

The short answer is, honestly, not a whole lot. Wisconsin is not a winner-take-all state for the Democrats. So Sanders and Hillary Clinton split the delegates in that state this way, 46 for Sanders and 36 for Hillary Clinton. The Republicans, Ted Cruz's win is a little more meaningful but not a whole lot if you think about it. Thirty-six delegates versus three for Donald Trump. So it certainly does slow down Trump's momentum. And it does further add to the very real possibility now of this complicated, contested convention. Put it in your lexicon, folks, contested convention. It is so much more real today.

One person being uncharacteristically quiet today, that guy, Donald Trump. No tweets. Angry or otherwise. No blaming, no pointing fingers. But there was, oh, yes, this statement from a campaign staffer last night calling Ted Cruz some more names and barely even mentioning Wisconsin, although threatening that he had stolen, you know, votes again and that he had broken the law by cohorting with super PACs, with no evidence to show.

And in just a few minutes right here on CNN, Hillary Clinton is going to join us live for an interview. We are waiting for the exact word on when she's going to be able to hook up to the satellite. So, stay nimble, folks, she should be here very soon.

So, with Wisconsin down, there is a busy month ahead with some serious delegate numbers to be crunched and waiting to be claimed. I want you to take a quick peek at this, important dates for the Republican candidates. The big one, the biggest kahuna so far, New York, April 19th. Then the following week is a very super Tuesday. To the Democrats, New York is huge for them, too, 247 delegates looking for homes to land in on just that one day. And here's last night's winners, Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders, both of

them basking in the glow of a Wisconsin win and also looking forward to where that glow will take them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: God bless the great state of Wisconsin.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: With our victory tonight in Wisconsin, we have now won seven out of eight of the last caucuses and primaries.

CRUZ: Utah, Colorado, North Dakota, Wisconsin, four victories.

SANDERS: And we are - have an excellent chance to win in Oregon and to win in California.

CRUZ: When Colorado and Wyoming finish voting, we are likely to have gained over 100 delegates on Donald Trump.

SANDERS: Please keep this a secret. Do not tell Secretary Clinton. She's getting a little nervous and I don't want her to get more nervous. But I believe we've got an excellent chance to win New York and a lot of delegates in that state.

CRUZ: Hillary, get ready, here we come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Them's some fighting words. So I want you to take a look at this panel that knows how to fight it out. John Phillips, talk radio host and Trump guy, Tara Setmayer, CNN political commentator, Jeff Zeleny, CNN's senior Washington correspondent and very smart guy in glasses, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Bob Beckel, smart guy in suspenders.

All right, Bob Beckel, I'm going to start with you.

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, ma'am.

BANFIELD: Wisconsin is not New York. I think we all know that. But I want you to dig into this for me and let me know why specifically this matters to the frontrunners and the folks who won last night.

BECKEL: Well, I mean, you could argue there's a little momentum. The problem is, in this race, things change so quickly that you're not going to get momentum going over two weeks.

The question about New York is the significant one now. Bernie Sanders - I just talked to Tad Devine, his campaign strategist, and they believe they can win New York. I'm still trying to put that together. I've counted delegates for six presidential elections and I - I can get Hillary Clinton to the majority of delegates. I cannot get Bernie Sanders there at the convention. And in the Republican side, Trump still has a chance to get to the majority, but it is getting increasingly unlikely. And if it goes to a second ballot, neither Trump or Cruz will get the majority.

[12:05:14] BANFIELD: So if we're talking New York, let's talk a little Democrats here. And, Jeff Zeleny, I know you're here in New York. It's nice to have you here, by the way. You're always out in some screaming convention hall somewhere. But take a look at this "New York Daily News" headline, "Bernie's Sandy Hook Shame." He did an interview with "The Daily News" in which he basically said to the question, should the families of those Sandy Hook first graders be able to sue the gun makers. And he was pretty emphatic. He said effectively no. And that's why he gets this headline in a big New York newspaper at a time when he's coming to the big New York for the big delegate count. Jeff Zeleny, can he beat this down? Can he do OK in this state against the former New York senator, Hillary Clinton.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a big welcome back home, Bernie Sanders.

BANFIELD: Yes.

ZELENY: I mean, look, he's the one who likes to talk about how he was born in Brooklyn, lived in New York City for 18 of his first years of life here. So this is not coming as a big surprise to him. But it's definitely a - you know, sending the signal or raising the flag that this is a new contest, a tough contest, a rough and tumble contest for the next two weeks. And, look, all of the issues here that have been already been playing out are going to be playing out again on a much bigger, louder stage. And the issue of guns the Clinton campaign believes is one of its biggest issues to use against Bernie Sanders. And it takes on a whole new meaning here in New York. The Sandy Hook thing, you can't think of anything more emotional and raw than that. So it's one of the things that Bernie Sanders is going to have to defend himself against.

But, Ashleigh, I can't think of any of the Bernie Sanders supporters I've seen at his big rallies who will be persuaded or changed by, you know, a headline or a word (ph) in "The Daily News." I think that they like Bernie Sanders for other reasons. For anyone on the fence perhaps, but by this point in the campaign, this is a closed primary here, so you have to already to be a registered Democratic voter. I think most people know who they're going to vote for, they just have to find them and get them out to the polls. So I don't think there's as much persuasion going on here as in some earlier contests.

BANFIELD: So there's the voters and then there's the delegates. And to that end, I want to play something real quick here from Ted Cruz about the - this notion that's becoming far more real after Wisconsin, and that is going to the contested convention to get a - a nominee for the Republican Party. Let's have a listen to what Cruz said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Either before Cleveland or at the convention in Cleveland, together we will win a majority of the delegates and together we will beat Hillary Clinton in November.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Tara Setmayer, I want to talk about that before factor, because he said it's possible before the convention he could reach the 1,237. I'm just looking at New York with 95 GOP delegates and winner take all if you're over 50 percent there. Pennsylvania with 71. Maryland with 38. Connecticut with 28. By those are not really Ted Cruz states. How does he think he can do this before, or is he just basically hedging his bets and saying, OK, come on, it's going to be the contested convention.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think it's the latter. I mean most - most people would agree that Ted Cruz is pretty unlikely to get to 1,237 before - before the convention. After last night's results, it's almost guaranteed we're going to an open convention. And it's interesting for me to watch the way the candidates are reacting to this. So, of course, Ted Cruz is trying to paint a pretty picture. But Donald Trump, even though New York is favorable for him and Pennsylvania looks good for him also, there are other states that may prove to be firewalls, like Nebraska and Indiana, that come toward the end there, because it is a game of delegate math. And even - as much as people don't like this, the Trump folks seem to try to just ignore the fact that these are the rules of the game.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SETMAYER: They want us to change the rules midstream. And I don't know when that's ever happened. For 160 years, the rules have been you have to get a majority of the delegates. And that's the game that we're playing here. So for Donald Trump to come out -

BANFIELD: That's a - that's a good point.

SETMAYER: Right. So for Donald Trump to come out with that ridiculous statement last night and say - to imply that Ted Cruz is - or the establishment or anyone is trying to, quote, steal the nomination from him is just more political asymmetrical warfare and it's dishonest because that's not the way it works.

BANFIELD: John - John, that's your guy. Look, she's driving your guy for his lack of understanding of how the political machine works. She is right. No one's breaking any rules. They are using the rules, much like Donald Trump has said in the past, I used bankruptcy law because it was available to me. He can't have it both ways. Do you think that the result last night will finally tell Donald Trump, you need your team, sir? It's not just your personality. Because that's topping you out at around 37 percent and that's not going to get you to 1,237.

JOHN PHILLIPS, TALK RADIO HOST & POLITICAL COLUMNIST: Well, look, Donald Trump has been wildly off message the last two weeks. That ad attacking his wife where they essentially implied that any beautiful woman that poses in a magazine is a hoochie mama clearly got underneath his skin and it got him talking about Ted Cruz's wife instead of talking about immigration and trade and the failure of the Republican establishment.

[12:10:14] Bob Beckel, as you mentioned, is a very smart man and his math is right. Donald Trump is realistically the only Republican who has a chance at winning this thing outright without going to a contested convention. So is what he has to do is he's got to go to New York, a big state with lots of delegates, and he's got to run up the score. In every poll that I've seen that's been done of late, he's polling north of 50 percent. In some polls, north of 60 percent. If he does that, he's going to gain a ton of delegates going into other states that are going to be home games for him. States in the northeast, states in - or California, states on the Pacific Coast. So I think Donald really has to get a big win in New York, hit the reset button and then he's got a chance to win this thing before we get to Cleveland.

BANFIELD: OK. So, guys, stand by, if you will. I'm going to squeeze in a quick break, but not before I throw these two teases out at all four of you, and that is that the pretty ladies were out on those stages last night. Heidi Cruz and Jane Sanders being prominently featured by their husbands. I'm not sure if this was an attempt to really go after the women's vote and say, look who I've got by my side after all the crap we've heard last week. And then there was this, Hillary Clinton all of a sudden changing - changing tactics when it came to Bernie Sanders and using words like "disqualify" and "defeat." We're going to talk about that right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:22] BANFIELD: Back with my uber smart political panel, John Phillips, Tara Setmayer, Jeff Zeleny and Bob Beckel.

Bob, first to you. We went to break so you could contemplate the whole time during break the significance of seeing the ladies out on the dais last night. We had Ted Cruz bringing Heidi Cruz, who was, I think safe to say, pretty badly maligned throughout the course of the last two weeks with a tweet that went out. A big hug and a smooch and a kiss. And then on the right-hand side of your screen, Jane Sanders coming up with Bernie Sanders. We all know how important the women's vote is. Was there anything more to it than that?

BECKEL: Absolutely not. I mean that was - that was decided before the voters were finished deciding. And, look, this has been a week or two here of wives battles. Now, they are, frankly, open game. That's been that way since the early part of the republic. But the way it's done this time has been a little bit harder than I've seen anyway. And so, yes, of course, they set it up that way. You don't see a podium on election night in any state where the background people are not preselected to do and send a message.

BANFIELD: It's always strategic. Yes, it's always strategic.

Speaking of strategy, Jeff Zeleny, some great reporting from you over the last 24 hours from the Clinton camp in a new shift in her strategy. Here to for it has been fairly gentle. The gloves sort of came off I think somewhat. But now, as you've reported, she is actually going towards the words "disqualified," "defeat" and worry about unifying the party later. Talk to me a little bit about your conversations, how they ended up at this point. Was Wisconsin a turning point for them or was Michigan? ZELENY: Ashleigh, I think just the sheer fact that they are fighting

for New York over the next couple of weeks is a turning point. And, look, this isn't as much of a - a strategy shift as a realization that they have to, once again, remind voters that they do not believe - the Clinton campaign does not believe Bernie Sanders is as qualified for the presidency as she is. Now, when they say "disqualify," they're not saying that he's not - you know, he shouldn't be running as a Democrat or is not, you know, constitutionally qualified. They mean that his plans have not been thought out.

So you can just see what Secretary Clinton has been saying already this morning during an earlier interview in that speech to the unions in Philadelphia just a few minutes ago. She is focusing directly on his plans. She's saying their numbers don't add up. So they are trying to simply sort of shake voters and say, look, he is not as qualified for the White House as I am.

But, Ashleigh, one problem with this is the enthusiasm is on the side of Senator Sanders. There's no doubt about it. The - when I was at a rally that he did at the Bronx last Thursday evening, when I saw 18,000 people there I thought, wow, this is a real fight for New York. She has a lot of advantages here, of course. She represented the state in the U.S. Senate. But this populous streak, this moment, this anger in the electorate that's been coursing, you know, throughout the primary calendar here is also alive and well in New York and amplified much more by Wall Street income equality. They know they have a tough race here. The reason that they are doing this is actually a defensive move. They know the Sanders campaign is about to hit them hard on fracking, on other things in upstate, on income inequality, on the economy. That's why they're preparing for this.

BANFIELD: Yes.

ZELENY: They know that they need to use New York as a moment to try and stop him.

BANFIELD: They just think also, Jeff, to hear - almost taking a page out of what's going on with Donald Trump -

ZELENY: Sure.

BANFIELD: How his critics have said he's not even a Republican. Now she is saying that, you know, I'm not even sure Bernie Sanders is a Democrat looking at his independent record.

Let me switch gears a little bit to - to this interesting meeting that took place in New York over the last week where somewhere around 100 or so Republican operatives all gathered in a room and Ted Cruz's idea here was to start wrangling any kind of state delegate he could find in the New York contest, knowing that it's going to be an uphill battle against Donald Trump in his home state in New York.

To that end, John Phillips, he has been rumored to be saying things like, I'm going to even knock on doors, hotel doors, to find these delegates. And I'm wondering if you have the inside scoop on whether this is the Paul Manafort strategy, because he brought him on to start working the delegate angle when he started to realize, oh dear God, that's there, I have to do that. And then if Roger Stone might even enter the picture once again because Manafort and Stone used to work together.

PHILLIPS: That's right. Well, I'm told that Donald Trump has a very strong ground operation in the state of New York, which is not the case in some states. And, look, it is important for him to get over 50 percent because the delegate math just really doesn't work unless he wins big in these big blue states.

[12:20:02] And let's face it, Ted Cruz is a guy who typecasts his message to evangelical Christians. He's going to have a very difficult time appealing to voters that don't fit that very narrow category. And when you're talking about a state like New York, you're talking about a state where there just aren't that many evangelical Christians. In fact, I mean, you look to the south, you look to the deep south, states where Ted Cruz thought that he was going to really run the table and Donald Trump won the deep south in a clean sweep. So I don't think he's going to have a lot of luck in the state of New York. I think Donald Trump's going to have a big victory there and that will help him hit the reset button as he moves forward to those other northeastern states.

BANFIELD: Yes, I think the big victory, though, is 50 percent or more -

PHILLIPS: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because he's been topping out around 37, 40 and that's just not going to do it for him if what Cruz thinks he can do is accurate, and that is just scrape away - I keep saying mining for delegates everywhere. By the way, Tara Setmayer, we haven't' even mentioned John Kasich. Should we?

SETMAYER: Well, he's still around, right? I think John Kasich may actually play fairly well in New York, and that maybe - he may be the difference that prevents Donald Trump from reaching that 50 percent threshold. I think John is right that New York is not necessarily Ted Cruz country, but upstate New York is very different than New York City. And upstate New York is, you know, people forget about that a lot of times but it's very conservative. Maybe not necessarily evangelical Christian, but I think that because New York is not a winner take all state unless he gets the over 50 percent, that there is an opportunity to pick off delegates there in - between Kasich and Ted Cruz if the point is -

BANFIELD: And how about Pennsylvania? That's where he was born.

SETMAYER: Right.

BANFIELD: And, you know what, let me remind you, 71 GOP delegates in Pennsylvania. That's - that's not something to shake your fist at.

SETMAYER: Yes. Right. And Pennsylvania is a very complicated state when it comes to delegate allocation and they have unassigned delegates. I mean, wait, when we get past New York, then we're going to start talking about how complicated Pennsylvania is and delegates matter there. And even, you know, the odds makers like 538 and they've come out and they've said, listen, it looks like it's like about an 80 percent chance that we're going to have an open convention. So delegates matter.

BANFIELD: And they have a big game you can play. I under - I haven't gone yet to do it, but apparently you can go and you can try to figure your own pathway forward on 538, which is hilarious.

SETMAYER: Yes.

BANFIELD: And you know what, people wouldn't have been this nerdy up until now. This is kind of the first time that we've all been super nerds, but -

SETMAYER: Yes. Well, structure matters.

BANFIELD: And (INAUDIBLE) - you're four of the best super nerds I could pick today. So, thank you, John Phillips and thank you, Tara Setmayer, Jeff Zeleny and Bob Beckel. Power to the nerds. Thanks, guys.

Also coming up this hour, as I mentioned right off the top, 22 minutes ago, Hillary Clinton getting ready to go live on CNN. The Democratic frontrunner talking about moving past Wisconsin. Just a short tweet last night but it was real magnanimous, "Congratulations to Bernie." I wonder if she really felt that, though, in her heart. On to New York. Forward, she says, in that tweet. And it is looking good for her there, but how good?

Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Sanders going head to head in a debate right here on CNN as well. They're going to be live in Brooklyn, April 14th, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Mark your calendar.

And then mark your calendar for about three minutes from now because we'll be right back and Senator Clinton is going to join us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:35] BANFIELD: I don't know if you've been following this little story that started small and got really big in Alabama, but the governor of that state is now facing possible impeachment. And it's all because of a sex scandal. A number of state lawmakers from both parties in that state say that Governor Robert Bentley needs to go after being accused of having an affair with a former top aide named Rebecca Mason. Governor Bentley says there are no grounds for impeachment and he says he believes that this move is all based on political grandstanding.

Here's why. He says, emphatically, that he denies having a physical affair with Miss Mason. He says he will not resign over all of this. But he has apologized in the wake of some pretty salacious audio recordings. They were from 2014 and they surfaced last month. And they are between Bentley and someone who is believed to be Ms. Mason.

Now, here's the deal. Normally I wouldn't play this kind of stuff on daytime TV in a newscast, but it's kind of specific to the denial of a physical relationship. And I also have to give you a warning if I'm going to play this audiotape. You're about to hear something of an extraordinarily explicit nature. This may not be suitable. I'm just going to go ahead and say it's not suitable for all ages. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ROBERT BENTLEY, ALABAMA (voice-over): You know what? When I stand behind you and I put my arms around you, and I put my hands on your breasts, and I pull my hands on you and pull you in real close. Hey, I love that, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes. Well, see, now look at Danny's reaction and look at Jeff -

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

BANFIELD: You guys are both blushing over this stuff, like they've never heard it before. CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, along with CNN legal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

So here's the deal. I just want to say those words again because when you deny having a physical affair with someone and then the old audio tape comes out and says, when I stand behind you and put my arms around you and put my hands on your breasts and put my hands on - pull you real close, I love that too, putting my hands under you.

TOOBIN: That's - that's a country song.

BANFIELD: Honest to God, it is.

TOOBIN: It is.

BANFIELD: And it is certainly not the kind of thing that you expect to hear your governor saying if it's not his wife, and you really wouldn't expect to hear an audiotape of him and his wife doing that. How can a governor stand at the head of a state and deny having a physical affair and have this audiotape out there? And he knows it's out there. Jeffrey?

[12:30:08] TOOBIN: Sure. Well, you know, the - people deny things all the time. And, you know, who knows what