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Interview with Hillary Clinton; Clinton's Plan To Beat Sanders And Unify Democrats; Trump-Cruz Fight for Delegates. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 06, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It's not June yet. So, that's one difference. But a bigger difference is that it does appear, by most metrics, that Bernie Sanders has a lot of momentum, almost making him more like Obama than like Hillary Clinton in 2008. So, is really asking him to drop out now, given all the excitement that's surrounding him, a really fair comparison?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, of course, I'm not asking him to. I wouldn't ask him to. And my campaign is not asking him to. But if you go back and look at 2008, I had a string of great victories in the spring. I won New York. I won Pennsylvania. We were really on a very good winning streak. However, I did end up with more delegates. I actually, by some measures, ended up with more popular vote but it is delegates that counts.

And so, I think, let's keep focused on what the facts are here. I have a really considerable lead in the popular vote and I have a considerable lead in the delegates.

But, again, you know, we're going to take our various cases to the states that are coming up. We're going to be making those vigorously. I'm sure that the senator will and I know I will. And we're going to be drawing contrasts. You're going to be hosting a debate on the 14th, which I'm really looking forward to.

So, I think we still have some good ground to cover. And I think it's great to have a contested Democratic primary, because it brings more people into the process. When I dropped out, at the end of our primary in 2008, I immediately urged all of my supporters to support then Senator Obama. I not only endorsed him, I nominated him at the convention and worked really hard. So, --

CUOMO: Do you remember well?

CLINTON: -- I'm looking to unify the Democratic Party when the process is over.

CUOMO: Do you expect the same from Senator Sanders the way that you dealt with the situation in 2008? Do you think he'll do the same?

CLINTON: Well, I would certainly hope so because the most important goal of this primary process is nominating a Democratic candidate who will defeat the Republicans in the general election. And, you know, both of us share a lot of the same goals. And the Republicans are diametrically opposed to what we believe. So, I would certainly hope that, at the end of this process, if I'm so fortunate enough as to be the nominee that the senator and his supporters will join the campaign to win in November, just as I and my supporters did in 2008.

CUOMO: I ask for a couple of reasons. One, last night, you may have heard that Senators Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said something very interesting, inflammatory, on our air here, saying that, you know, the Clinton campaign, Secretary Clinton, they need to be careful not to destroy the Democratic Party merely in pursuit of her own ambition to be president. Very strong words. Your response to that idea.

CLINTON: Well, I mean, it's just ludicrous on the face of it. You know, I have been campaigning for Democrats, fund-raising for Democrats, recruiting Democrats to run and win for a really long time. I think about 40 years. And Senator Sanders, by his own admission, has never even been a Democrat.

So, look, I understand they're getting anxious. I get that. But they need to be thoughtful about what they do say because, at the end of the day, we need a Democratic president to succeed President Obama and to protect and further the progress that we've made under his eight years in office.

CUOMO: Exit polls do show that those Democrats who want to see President Obama's policies extended continued certainly favor you. And this is done somewhat in the context of what you just said about Senator Sanders about being a real Democrat. I read in a recent interview where you said, you know, you're not even sure he is a Democrat. Is that how you feel?

CLINTON: Well, he, himself, has said that he never was. He never ran as a Democrat until he started running for president. But, look, he's in the race. I'm in the race. And I believe, strongly, that it's not only critical to nominate someone who will win in November but also to elect more Democrats.

I'm already helping other Democrats who are running. I'm helping raise money for them. I'm supporting them. Because I think it is important to have a Democratic Senate. I think it's important to have a very clear mission to elect Democrats. And that's something that I not only have done in the past, but I intend to do in the future.

CUOMO: Two policy questions for you. First of all, you've pointed out a recent interview with the editorial board of "The Daily News" that Senator Sanders said. You said it raises real questions about his firm grasp of how the system works with regard to regulating banks and to how we fight the war on terror. How so?

[13:05:03] CLINTON: Well, he's been campaigning now for a year on his core message of inequality, which I absolutely agree with and I put forth my own plans. And in the interview, it seemed unclear as to whether he understood how Dodd Frank works. How he would go about breaking up banks that were posing risks to our economy. I think I, and many other people, were surprised because that has been the centerpiece of his campaign.

I've been saying, for many months, that it's not enough to just have Dodd Frank on the books. My plan goes much further and independent experts who've analyzed it say it's a top-to-bottom effort to try to rein in the risks in the economy.

So, I've given a lot of thought to this. I've worked hard to come up with plans that will build on Dodd Frank. I'm committed to using the tools in Dodd Frank, as they are described in the legislation, if that arising as a crisis that requires response.

So, I was, I think, a little bit, you know, surprised that there didn't seem to be a lot of substance to what he was saying.

CUOMO: How much more substance does he need, other than, I want to break up the banks? We'll figure out how. I want to go after ISIS. I'll figure out where I interrogate them.

CLINTON: Well, it's going to be up to the voters.

CUOMO: But a lot of people say, Secretary, it's about what you want to do. You'll figure out how later.

CLINTON: Yes. Yes, well, that's not the way I've seen it work over a lot of years and a lot of reading of history. I think the presidents who are successful know what they want to do and they now how to do it. And they hit the ground running, able to do every aspect of the job, both as president and as commander in chief.

But voters can make up their own minds. I've also laid out a plan about defeating ISIS that I think takes in to account what we need to do around the world, building coalitions, something I'm experienced in doing and keeping us safe at home.

So, I'm going to keep talking about the issues that I think are on the minds of Americans and in these next two weeks, the minds of New Yorkers. And I'll let Senator Sanders speak for himself.

CUOMO: On the same cover of the same newspaper where he did the interview, "The Daily News," today, they are going after Senator Sanders about Sandy Hook. Not easy to say. Not easy to read either, Secretary. I mean, this is so emotional, so difficult.

And the core issue comes down to should gun manufacturers be liable for their products being used illegally? You, essentially, say, yes. The senator says, well, you have to show me something more than that. That there is some reason they should be liable. I get the emotion but where's the reason behind holding these gun manufacturers liable in a way that no other corporation would be?

CLINTON: Well, that's just not true, Chris. In fact, the -- under this legislation that Senator Sanders supported, they are the only industry in America that is not liable and accountable for what they do or fail to do. And let's remember why the NRA called this piece of legislation the

most important gun vote in years. It's because cities, like New York and states and other groups, were coming together around legal challenges to the behavior of gun makers and sellers, trying to stem the epidemic of gun violence.

And the NRA wanted to stop it in its tracks. And they were able to get people like Senator Sanders to do their bidding. I voted against it. President Obama voted against it. Because, clearly, it was an effort to bypass legal accountability.

And so, here we have this remarkable situation where you cannot question the liability or the behavior of gun makers and sellers. I thought Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut really summed it up. He said Senator Sanders wants higher standards for toy guns than real guns.

CUOMO: One last question here as we're coming up on New York. I know you're pressed for time, Secretary. Thank you for giving us so much of it this morning, or this afternoon. You know, my mind's always in the morning. New York is going to be more relevant than people expected it to be. You were the senator here for eight years. You lived here longer than that. But you're going against Bernie from Brooklyn, as it turns out. Even though he's the senator from Vermont. Who do you think is more of the real New Yorker?

CLINTON: Look, I think I know the state a lot better. I have a lot of recent experience. I've worked hard. I've done a lot with people who are sharing my values about breaking down barriers, ending gun violence, taking on special entrenched interests, improving education so every kid has a good teacher and a good school regardless of the zip code, continuing the work of health care, reforming criminal justice.

[13:10:01] I've been working on these issues steadily, and I'm proud of my service as senator. And I'm going to keep working and keep talking about what we can do if I am fortunate enough to be president.

CUOMO: Secretary Clinton, thank you for giving us the time today. Appreciate it.

CLINTON: Thank you. Thanks a lot, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So, there's Secretary Clinton laying out the case why it's not about whether or not she wants Senator Sanders to step out of the race. She believes it's good to have a contested primary. And now, it's going to be about the issues, so we laid out some of them right there.

Who am I going to right now, is it Ashleigh or Wolf? Who's taking it from us here in the CNN family?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's Wolf, Chris.

CUOMO: Wolf. BLITZER: And I want you to stand by with me. I want you to help me and help our viewers analyze what we just heard from the former secretary of state. I also want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world.

So, Chris, let's talk a little bit about some of the highlights of this interview. She lost, obviously, yesterday in Wisconsin. But all of her hopes now moving forward, presumably she's going to do well in New York in less than two weeks now and a week later in Pennsylvania. She's got states, potentially, right now that are more conducive to her winning, right? You're there in New York.

CUOMO: There's -- what's the presumption? That the Northeast is more suitable for Clinton than Wisconsin and that region. Why? Her team would argue demographics. That you're going to have a more rich ethnic, a minority base of voters that plays to her strength and that's more representative of this country.

But I think New York is winding up being much more of a test than people assumed because this is more than just the math. This is about the momentum and the mood, just to stick with Ms, Wolf. You have momentum, that's obvious. We saw it in the exit poll even in Wisconsin last night, only 14 percent of people polled were enthusiastic, excited about the prospect of Hillary Clinton as president. That's within Democrats last night.

And then, you have the mood which is that party, that Democratic Party, is going through something very similar to the GOP. They can talk about how their primary has been more tame, more about ideas. They can make that case if they want. But the party is trying to figure out who it is.

And the left part of that party is being very aggressive about it and it's going on on the ground in New York state right now as you and I speak. That's going to matter. And that's why I ended the interview by just seeing where the secretary's head is, in terms of her ownership of New York because it's going to be a big deal if it's a tight race between Sanders and Clinton in New York.

BLITZER: Because, as you know, Bernie Sanders was born in Brooklyn and he always makes the point in speaking to New Yorkers. He lived in Brooklyn. He lived in New York until he reached the age of 18. Then he left. He went to the University of Chicago and basically moved on, didn't come back to New York. She spent eight years as a U.S. senator in New York. She knows that state very well. She knows your hometown of New York. She knows my hometown of Buffalo, New York, upstate as well. And here's the question. Bernie Sanders, he knows Brooklyn. He knows New York. What about upstate?

CUOMO: I think that -- look, the idea of how deep you can go is relevant in New York. And I think, by extension, it's relevant, period. What is the main criticism coming out of this "Daily News" editorial board? It's exactly that, that Senator Sanders, when pushed to go two and three levels down into his position, had more difficulty with it. That's a very rigorous setting. It's not like a T.V. interview where time is such a constraint. And then, on ISIS, what would you do? Where would you interrogate two, three levels deep? It was a trick. A question, no. It was a straight question but it was more tricky for him to handle it. Those issues present themselves in New York also.

We're seeing it with this gun issue that's on the front cover of one of the tabloids this morning, specifically in the form of whether or not you make gun manufacturers liable for the use of their product, their weapons, when it's used illegally. And that would be very unusual to do to a manufacturer.

You could spin that issue one of two ways. Bernie Sanders is caught on it right now. He's on the wrong side of it, from the Democrats perspective, because he's being a little bit open minded about it. Whereas this is highly emotionally charged, especially when you attach it to Newtown. You were there. I were there. So many of us was there. We dealt with it. We understand the emotion behind it. But the reason, the logic, that's a tricky issue for him. And that's going to be very front and center in this race.

BLITZER: This lengthy interview he had with the New York "Daily News," the editorial board, he's getting pretty criticized, where you are in New York right now, for not answering a lot of specific questions on major policy issues. He wants to break up Wall Street, break up the big banks. But he didn't have specific information, what laws he could use to do that. She is really going after him on those issues right now as well and we heard it in your interview. How big of a deal is this, though, where you are in New York?

CUOMO: Well, I think guns are big everywhere. I think the frustration for people --

BLITZER: Not just guns but I'm talking about his big issue of breaking up Wall Street?

CUOMO: Oh, sorry, Wolf.

[13:15:00] I think that -- look, well, you have Wall Street here, right? But the idea that the concern, the frustration, the anger, the hostility toward what happened during the financial collapse is centered and lives only in New York is obviously wrong. It's something that permeates the country. It permeates the frustration of people who feel that there are two sets of rules.

So, Senator Sanders is on the right side of that from a campaign mood momentum perspective, right? It's a big driving force for him. It feeds directly into income inequality. What's the challenge to Sanders? Well, can you get it done? Are you promising people an optimism, a hope that you can't deliver on? That's where this daily news is going to be threaded in by his critics, that once he had to dig down into how he would get it done, Wolf, it became more of a struggle for him.

Some people may play it as a gotcha. You know, oh, does he really know what the Fed chair can do and not do. I don't think it's that simple. I don't think it's a gotcha. I think that you have to be ready, the way Donald Trump needed to be ready to answer the question about where he is on reproductive rights, no matter the context, no matter the scenario. This is that kind of issue. If you're going to make it the center of your campaign, you have to own it on all levels.

BLITZER: Good point. Chris Cuomo, good interview. Thank you very much.

I want to remind our viewers, a week from Thursday, a week from tomorrow, there will be a debate. You heard Hillary Clinton just tell Chris she's looking forward to debating Bernie Sanders in Brooklyn. That debate will air right here on CNN, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, a week from tomorrow, April 14th.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll continue to report on what's going on, on the Democratic side. We're also standing by to hear from Senator Ted Cruz. He won big in Wisconsin last night. He's getting ready to speak to reporters again in New York. The focus of political activity right now, New York, New York. We'll be right back.

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[13:20:41] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: God bless the great state of Wisconsin. God bless the lone star state. God bless Kansas. The great state of Maine. God bless the great state of Oklahoma. In Alaska. God bless the great state of Utah. Here in Idaho. God bless the great state of Iowa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Ted Cruz thanking voters in states he's won so far, including the latest state, Wisconsin. Cruz's win means the fight for delegates between him and Donald Trump clearly intensifying right now.

Let's discuss that and more. Joining us, our CNN political commentator Tara Setmayer, and Jeffrey Lord, our CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director, a Trump supporter.

As you know, I want to remind our viewers, we're also standing by, Ted Cruz getting ready to do a little Q&A with reporters. He's in New York City right now. There you see the microphone. We'll have live coverage of that when he shows up.

In the meantime, guys, listen to how Ted Cruz summed up his win in Wisconsin last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight is a turning point. It is a rallying cry. It is a call from the hard-working men and women of Wisconsin to the people of America. We have a choice. A real choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, Jeffrey, he says this is a turning point in the race. Is it?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not sure that it is at this point. Our colleague at CNN, who's also a columnist for "The Daily News," S.E. Cupp, has an interesting column that basically says Donald Trump is still on the path to this nomination. I think that's true.

Senator Cruz is about to come into the northeastern United States. I guess he's already there in New York. And for reasons -- I mean he's a really smart guy and I must say I do like him and I congratulate him on his victory. But when he was campaigning in Iowa, he went after Donald Trump for a quote/unquote New York values. Well, now he has to come to New York and the classic case of a candidate looking down on the values of people whose votes he's trying to get is never a particularly good formula, and I'm not sure it's going to help him in New York or frankly here in places like Pennsylvania.

BLITZER: We'll see if he's asked that question. Once again, we're standing by. He's going to be meeting with the reporters we're told momentarily. We'll ask -- we'll see if any of those New York reporters ask him about those New York values.

As you know, Tara, the Trump campaign responded to the loss in Wisconsin last night with a statement blasting Ted Cruz. Among other things the statement said, "not only was he propelled by the anti- Trump super PAC's spending countless millions of dollars on false advertising against Mr. Trump, but he was coordinating with his own super PACs (which is illegal) who totally control him. Ted Cruz is worse than a puppet-he is a Trojan horse being used by the party bosses attempting to steal the nomination from Mr. Trump."

First of all, there's no evidence that Cruz has been coordinating with super PACs. That would be illegal, as you know. Trump is making that accusation. But what's your general reaction, Tara, to that very tough statement from the Trump campaign?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's a reflection of how unhinged and petulant he can be when he doesn't -- when things don't go his way. This is a consistent pattern of behavior for Donald Trump that instead of looking at the situation and realizing, guess what, you lost fair and square, buddy, just like you lost in Utah, 69 percent to 14. He lost handedly in Wisconsin. And -- but instead of taking responsibility and moving forward and acting presidential -- this is a campaign, you do compete against other people, you don't get to control the outcome -- this is what he does, he lashes out.

And, you know, if this is supposed to be -- this as supposed to be the pivot point, right? I mean everyone kept saying that if Donald Trump -- he now has to pivot and become more presidential. He's done nothing of the sort ever since March 15th. The wheels have actually been coming off the campaign. You know, there's a report today in "Politico" about how Paul Manafort, who was hired to come in, he's as a professional, seasoned operative, he was supposed to come in and kind of make the campaign more professional, go forward with the delegate situation -- because that what really it's about at this point, it's a delegate game -- he's threatening to quit because the Trump folks, the other side, Corey Lewandowski and those campaign staffers, they're not cooperating with making this a more adult campaign and more professional moving forward. Because we're looking at an open convention most likely.

[13:25:00] BLITZER: All right.

SETMAYER: So this is the -- this is the beginning of the wheels starting to come off a little bit of the Trump reality show and the reality of a real presidential campaign is starting to sink in for him. And I don't think that he can handle it.

BLITZER: Jeffrey, when the Trump campaign accuses Ted Cruz of breaking the law by coordinating with that super PAC, he doesn't provide any evidence to support the allegation.

LORD: Right.

BLITZER: Is that fair?

LORD: Well, you know, Wolf, I don't have any evidence myself. But let me -- let me just address the -- I think the general problem here is to -- I don't know what prompted this on Donald Trump's part, but let me say this. The whole issue of super PACs, Donald Trump well aside and Ted Cruz well aside, has gotten to be so iffy. There is a general feeling abroad in the land here, in the political world, that there is always a sort of wink-wink, nod-nod relationship between the super PAC and the candidate, that somehow there's always some hanky-panky going on. I think this is a reason why we should exactly get rid of super PACs. The candidate should be responsible for his campaign, not somebody else, the candidate. And so as long as this goes on, you're going to get accusations like this from Donald Trump and, frankly, he's not going to be alone in this.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stand by.

SETMAYER: But here's the end responsibility -- it's irresponsible.

BLITZER: Hold on, Tara. Tara, hold on. Hold on. Everybody hold on for a moment. We need to take a quick break. Once again, we're waiting for Ted Cruz. He's going to be answering reporters' questions in New York City. There you see a crowd that's already gathered. We'll have live coverage of that. He had a big victory in Wisconsin yesterday, raising the odds of a contested convention for the Republicans in July in Cleveland. So how exactly would that play out? Our Tom Foreman takes us through the delegate shuffle. That's coming up.

Also, Donald Trump's national campaign spokeswoman is standing by to join us, as well. We'll get her reaction to last night's loss for Trump in Wisconsin and the chances this will all come down to a floor fight in July.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)