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2016 Election in Focus; Black-on-Black Murders; Religious Freedom Laws. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired April 07, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So this has kind of become a national joke, right? So let's talk about this. I'm joined by TIME magazine reporter, Zeke Miller. Welcome.

ZEKE MILLER, POLITICAL REPORTER, TIME: Thank you for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So this week's cover story, it asks the question -- and I believe there we have it -- "which flawed, disliked flag bearer do Republicans want to go to battle against Hillary Clinton?" And of course you -- it has to be Ted Cruz. But you know, some polls say that Ted Cruz can beat Hillary Clinton, who is flawed, herself.

MILLER: Exactly. If you're a Republican operative and watching a Republican senator, like we saw (offset a rich) last night, they're sort of in that position where they don't really like Ted Cruz, they don't really like -- they certainly don't like Donald Trump. And they want to have a chance. And Ted Cruz, right now, gives them that chance to defeat Hillary Clinton in the Fall.

Donald Trump runs so far behind, has alienated so many voters -- independents that the Republican Party will need to win in the Fall -- that they're willing to get behind the person who is you know, said about every insult in Washington, thrown the kitchen sink at his fellow colleagues in the Senate. Has been -- was behind the government shutdown that many in his own party derided.

And they're now running behind him, maybe not running, walking behind him a little bit. And maybe not with their heads held high, but certainly out of a pragmatism that he's the -- their alternative right now to stopping Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: But so how is Senator Ted Cruz playing that? Because on one hand he's probably, I guess happy that established Republicans are coming out to support him. But they're not exactly enthusiastically talking about him on national television. So what is Senator Ted Cruz say about that? MILLER: No, and they're actually pretty OK with that. They don't want the label of the establishment falling in behind Ted Cruz. They don't want those news stories. They're really not pushing that.

What they're going for are the voters behind them. They're hoping that the donors, the donor class, that Washington lawmakers, that those comments will signal to their supporters that, "hey, if you're a moderate Republican voter, it's time to get behind Ted Cruz. If you are a pragmatic, traditional Republican voter who isn't in that key party strand, now is the time to get behind Ted Cruz."

He still needs to be a little bit detached from the Washington establishment, and he certainly is. He's not a member of that establishment, by any stretch. Because he still needs to win over those Donald Trump supporters who don't like them, who don't like Washington, maybe even more than the Ted Cruz supporters do.

So he needs to sort of straddle a very fine line here, and welcome the establishment folks into his support, but without embracing them. Because he still needs to get those Trump voters back in, as well.

COSTELLO: So in Wisconsin, where Ted Cruz had that big win, he showed that he could appeal to different kinds of voters, other than evangelical voters, right? Do you think that will hold true in other states, moving forward?

MILLER: That's the big question for it. New York is not some place where he's expected to do very well. There are some congressional districts where he could pick up some delegates. The bigger question for him might be in states like Connecticut, Delaware, Pennsylvania, that go the week after, on the 26th.

That will -- really, if he can consolidate there, that will be a sign that he can really stop Donald Trump, going forward, when he gets to California, the last big delegate haul in the cycle. His problem is that he still has giant cases on his flank. And that's helpful to him in New York, that's helpful to him in certain places. But if he ever really wants to get the party behind him, he's going to need to find a way to get some of those voters in consistently behind him.

COSTELLO: Consistently behind him because, you know, a lot of polls show that his likeability factor is quite low. And he's tried to repair that, because he can be very funny, right? And some of his campaign ads make you laugh out loud. So he's trying to appear warmer, with his relationship with his wife, he puts his arm around her, in one shot he was feeding her some food at a campaign stop. So he's doing those kinds of things to show people that he is a warm human being.

MILLER: Absolutely. He is, like every politician, there's a public face and there's a private face. And he's trying to do more to show who he is behind the scenes on that campaign bus. You'll see him cracking lines about The Princess Bride, and those movie lines. To some people it may come off a little awkward, but that really is who the man is, who Senator Cruz is. And he's going to be doing more to show that softer side to maybe sand

off some of those rough edges. Particularly as the map moves from some of those deep conservative states where he did very well, to some of the more industrial, liberal, moderate states, where he needs to expand his appeal.

COSTELLO: All right, Zeke Miller, I'll leave it there. Thanks for stopping by. --

MILLER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: By the way, Ted Cruz -- you're welcome -- Ted Cruz will sit down with Erin Burnett tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Still to come in the Newsroom, an impassioned Ray Lewis, speaking from the heart. He says, Black Lives Matter is ignoring black crime.

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COSTELLO: An emotional, searing indictment of Black Lives Matter, has now gone viral. It's a Facebook post by NFL great, Ray Lewis. And it's been viewed by more than 2.7 million people. Lewis questions the group's focus, in light of the wave of horrible violence in Chicago. Listen.

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RAY LEWIS, FORMER BALTIMORE RAVENS LINEBACKER: I'm trying to ask the question if -- to the organization of Black Lives, if they really matter, then why not riot now? There was 141 murders this year, 82 murders last year, at this same time. I've -- I'm trying to figure out in my mind why no one is paying attention to black men killing black men.

And now, we have this separation, once again, that we're being victimized because of one bad white cop, two bad white cops, three bad white cops kill a young, black brother. But every day we have black- on-black crimes, killing each other. I'm trying to figure out how the month of March, there's more murders in the month of March in Chicago, than there are days in the month.

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COSTELLO: Here to talk about this is Aaron Goggans, he's the core organizer of Black Lives Matter, DC. He joins me from Washington. Welcome.

AARON GOGGANS, CORE ORGANIZER, BLACK LIVES MATTER, DC: Hello, thanks for having me on.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. You heard what Ray Lewis said, right? He's saying, in other words, your group is focusing too much on a couple of instances of alleged police brutality, and you're not focusing enough on black-on-black crime, something that kills more African American young men, than anything else. GOGGANS: Well it's important to talk about the myth of black-on-black

crime. It's just that, a myth. Any Google search of the term can come up with a lot of different articles --

COSTELLO: So Ray Lewis is wrong?

GOGGANS: I think Ray Lewis is talking about a lot of myths and misconceptions about what the movement is. And is talking about an argument that stems out of antiblack, years ago. --

COSTELLO: Well let's go back to black-on-black crime. You're saying that black-on-black crime is not a problem?

GOGGANS: No, I'm saying that intercommunity crime happens in all communities across the country. And it is a problem that the movement of Black Lives is focusing on. The movement of Black Lives is also focusing on state-sanctioned violence, which is a different thing. It's not just a few white cops killing a few unarmed black men.

In fact, you have the state systematically creating up systems that are killing black people, both black women, black children, black men, black queer, black trans, and black gender non-conforming folks. And that's the issue that I think Ray Lewis didn't talk about in his video.

COSTELLO: Well, specifically, Ray Lewis said, yes, those issues are important. But the more important issues is figuring out how to help communities heal. How to stop the killing in communities like in Chicago. Which is seeing this huge increase in violence, and it's mostly black-on-black crime.

GOGGANS: There are many folks on the ground, in Chicago, who are doing great work. You can look at the interrupters. But really I think it's important that the media focus on the broader issues, and the systemic conditions that create both, inter-community violence, and state-sanctioned violence.

It's important that we talk about how the police are used in black communities. It's important that we talk about, like in Flynt, for instance, you have both the state, and federal government refusing to govern. And refusing to actually take care of the black community there. --

COSTELLO: Oh, no, no. I hear you, I hear you, and the media certainly covers that. But Ray Lewis is specifically talking about Black Lives Matter. And I'm just going to read you another excerpt from his rant on his Facebook page.

"We keep screaming black lives matter. If they really matter, then let's do ourselves a favor. Let's stop killing black folks. Let's take it way back to where we understood what slavery was all about. Slavery was about togetherness and understanding that we must overcome, together." --

GOGGANS: Slavery was not about togetherness and understanding. Slavery was about how to get labor from black folks without compensating us for it. Slavery was about creating the conditions for the American settler, colonial society. Slavery was not about togetherness. Because in our resistance to slavery we created unity, that's a different thing, it's a different conversation.

COSTELLO: I think that's what he's talking about. He's talking about unity, and fighting injustice together.

GOGGANS: I think we need to fight all the forms of injustice that black community faced. And I think you can't use black-on-black crime, or this myth that somehow, white people are not also killing white people, to obfuscate from the fact that the state is killing black people in America. --

COSTELLO: I don't think Ray Lewis is saying that. I don't think Ray -- I think Ray Lewis is concentrating on black-on-black crime. He's not saying that only happens in certain communities.

GOGGANS: I, what I'm trying to highlight, is the fact that this is what the media wants to bring the movement of Black Lives, on national television to talk about. When there are all of these systems of injustice that are systematically killing black people in our communities.

COSTELLO: So what would you say directly to Ray Lewis for posting this on his Facebook page?

GOGGANS: I don't have anything to say to Ray Lewis. I don't know him. I might suggest that he Google the myth on black-on-black crime, and he talk to other athletes, like Carmelo Anthony, who are actually from Baltimore, who have been doing work in the community.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Aaron Goggans, thanks for stopping by.

Still to come in the Newsroom, Mississippi becomes the latest state to adopt a so-called "religious freedom law." Critics say it's really a veiled attempt to discriminate against the LGBT community.

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COSTELLO: Despite the backlash, there are controversial, new, North Carolina law that critics say discriminates against gay people. A state senator in neighboring South Carolina has introduced a nearly identical bill. It would, among other things, prohibit anyone from using a public restroom, other than one of their biological gender. South Carolina's Republican Governor, however, says the bill is not needed, because of a law adopted in 1999.

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GOVERNOR NIKKI HALEY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: What I will tell you is, in South Carolina we are blessed, because we don't have to mandate respect, or kindness, or responsibility in this state. And so I'll tell you that law has worked perfectly. I don't know of any example that we've had a problem of. And South Carolina's going to continue to focus on ethics, and on roads, and on jobs, and all of those things. Because we think we've got that part covered.

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COSTELLO: These so-called religious freedom bills, and laws, are becoming more and more common across the country. The ACLU says, some 200 bills that could lead to discrimination, have been introduced in state legislatures this year. And they've even been enacted in Kansas, North Carolina, and now Mississippi. The Mississippi law says people and organizations can use their personal religious beliefs to deny things like wedding services, child adoptions, rental property, medical care, and more. CNN's Polo Sandoval, live in Jackson, Mississippi with more. Good morning.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. Good morning. You know, that debate really is sweeping across the country. But we are here in Mississippi this morning, because it is the latest state to actually enact some of this controversial legislation. And in speaking to the people here, the folks that are directly affected by this new law, we are definitely finding opposing views.

For example, we have Jeremy Jones, a guy who's known around these parts as "The Cake King." Someone who says he is the only openly gay black baker in the state. And he says that this new law, which by the way will be in effect in July, essentially, according to him, reverses any sign of progress that the people here, in Mississippi have seen in the last 50, 60 years. Since the days of the Jim Crow law. So he says that this opens a door to discrimination.

Opposite of him, you have a second-generation seamstress, Miss Jackie Buchanan, who we met yesterday, who says that even before this law was signed earlier this week, that she won't knowingly assist same-sex couples prepare for a wedding. She cites her religious beliefs. Now again, she says that this new law protects her right to simply, respectfully deny providing any of these services to same-sex couples. In other words, working with brides to prepare their dresses.

But then you hear from other people, Carol, who simply call it discrimination. Again, this debate far from over, especially with other states now considering some of this very controversial legislation.

COSTELLO: All right, Polo Sandoval reporting live from Mississippi this morning. Tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, the CNN original series, "The 80s" revisits one of the pivotal moments in modern US history; the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. It had the rare effect of uniting the country across political lines, and was also an opportunity for The White House to advance the Reagan agenda.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The assassination attempt, and the aftermath elevated Ronald Reagan's popularity to a new high. The latest NBC News Associated Press poll shows that his job rating jumped 10 points.

H. W. BRANDS, AUTHOR, "REAGAN: THE LIFE": Reagan understood that he was getting this sort of, sympathy reaction. Everybody was rooting for him, all of a sudden. Because they didn't want him to die, they didn't want to lose a president. And so without missing a step, he goes right into what the message is, "we've got to get this tax and spending bill passed, and we've got to do it now."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This day's speaker, the President of the United States.

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RICHARD REEVES, AUTHOR, "PRESIDENT REAGAN, THE TRIUMPH OF IMAGINATION": It was just like the movies, Reagan was a true American hero.

BERNARD SHAW, FORMER CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The President looking very jovial, very healthy.

JAMES A. BAKER III, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I was sitting in the well of the House there, when he was addressing the Congress. It was magic. Everybody was so grateful that his life had been spared. It was a stirring moment.

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SHAW: If he wants them to stop, they're not going to stop for a while.

LOU WATERS, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: Today handed President Reagan, and the Republicans, a major victory. For the second time in his drive to cut the Federal budget, President Reagan got what he wanted from a House controlled by the opposition party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reagan comes off of the victory in Congress, and the recovery from the assassination attempt, looking very strong, very bold. Like a very determined leader.

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COSTELLO: An all-new episode of "The 80s" airs tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN. I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you, 57 minutes past. At least two investigations are underway after this shocking video showing a Texas School Resource Officer slamming a 12-year old onto the ground, went viral. The incident happened last week at a middle school in San Antonio. The young girl in the video says she doesn't remember what happened, she was knocked out. The officer in question is now on leave.

A Takata airbag being blamed for the death of a teenager in Houston. The 17-year old was driving a 2002 Honda Civic one week ago, when a minor traffic accident caused the recalled airbag to explode.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUDY TORRES: She actually got out of the car, took a step, and fell. Collapsed. She should've walked away from it. She had a deep laceration on the side of her throat. It looked like debris from the airbag.

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COSTELLO: Honda says owners of the car model involved in the Texas accident have been sent multiple recall notices over several years. More than 20 million cars from 12 automakers with Takata airbags have been recalled so far.

A manhunt now underway in Washington state after two men escape from a mental hospital. Police say Anthony Garver (ph), and Mark Adams (ph) were committed to the Lakewood facility for treatment, after being arrested for very violent crimes. They were last seen in the hospital's dining room at 6:00 last night, but were not noticed missing until an hour-and-a-half later. The public is urged not to interact with them, but to alert authorities if they see these two men.

New York City's cracking down on smokeless tobacco. Mayor Bill De Blasio is signing a ban on the products at sports venues, including Yankee Stadium and Citi Field, as well as other recreational areas that issue tickets. That includes the players on the field. The ban also includes E-cigarettes. New York now joins other cities like, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Boston, in banning the products.

Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Carol Costello. At This Hour, with Berman and Bolduan starts now.