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Clinton and Sanders Battle For New York Votes; Ted Cruz Defends New York Values Remarks; Colorado GOP Meets to Pick Delegates on Saturday; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 08, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Deliver to their employees and customers and to their shareholders saying they have to do this every day, and that GE, like many other companies, lives in the real world.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Alison Kosik, many thanks.

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COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton avoid taking major swings while Republican rivals try to take New York. First up the fight between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton over who is more qualified to be president. Well, the back and forth has taken a softer tone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's kind of a silly statement, but he's free to say whatever he chooses.

MATT LAUER, NBC ANCHOR: Is he qualified to be president?

CLINTON: Well, here's what I believe. I believe that voters will be looking at both of us, but I will take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz any time. They pose real threats.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Here's the truth. I've known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I respect Hillary Clinton. We were colleagues in the Senate. And on her worst day, she will be -- she would be an infinitely better president than either of the Republican candidates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Today Clinton courts voters in upstate New York while Sanders holds rallies in his birthplace Brooklyn. Plus Donald Trump sets his sights on the convention and beefs up the role of one of his top strategists. All of this as Ted Cruz tries to maintain momentum despite incoming attacks.

We begin, though, with the Democrats. CNN's Phil Mattingly kicking off our coverage. Good morning.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. And as you see now, they're apparently aligning their messages, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, all would be better than anybody on the Republican side. But look, this is a fight. And it's broken out. And I think it's somewhat unsettling to a lot of Democrats who have been watching the Democratic race and just at least saying, phew, at least we're not the Republican race.

That's starting to shift a little bit right now, and while both candidates have started to ratchet back kind of the escalation we'd seen over the last 48 hours, still a few jabs here and there. Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say this morning in an interview with the NBC "Today" show about what's been happening between her and Bernie Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I never said that about him.

LAUER: I know. I'm asking.

CLINTON: I know. I never said that about him. His response to me was a misrepresentation of what I've said, but also kind of a historic amnesia because on all of those issues he supported President Obama, he supported Joe Biden as our vice presidential candidate. He supported John Kerry when he ran, and each one of them has, according to him, not been qualified, but I think in the heat of the campaign people say lots of things. I want to stay focused on the issues. There are contrasts between us and I think that's fair game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The issue of qualification obviously becoming a big one over the last couple of days in the Democratic race. Now Bernie Sanders has said that his campaign is just going to fight back when they feel attacked. He's been accusing Clinton surrogates of leading a, quote, "smear campaign" against his team. Now it's brought up to him with some of his staffers who've been saying related to this race, and this is how Bernie Sanders defended his operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAUER: This is something your campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said, caused a bit of a stir when he said, don't destroy -- talking to Clinton supporters, don't destroy the Democratic Party to satisfy the secretary's ambitions to become president of the United States. Do you agree with that comment?

SANDERS: I can see we're off to the gossip world. OK.

LAUER: No, no. This is what your campaign manager said.

SANDERS: Yes, I know, but is that an issue the people are staying up nights worrying about? What people are worried about is how we're going to have decent paying jobs. Jeff is doing a great job. We started at 3 percent in the polls. Last two out of three polls have us in the lead. I think what simply Jeff is trying to say here is let's not run a negative campaign. Let's run a campaign which deals with the real issues impacting the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: So both candidates right now trying to pivot back to a positive issues oriented campaign. But, Carol, the reality is this race has gotten closer. These stakes are very high. We have a very important debate coming up in just a couple of days in Brooklyn, CNN debate, and then right after that the New York primary. And voters go to the polls on April 19th. Bernie Sanders on a good streak right now. Hillary Clinton trying to stop that momentum in a state that she is supposed to win. No question. The intensity is only going to ratchet up from here.

COSTELLO: That's right. And when the intensity ratchets up, we all know what happens, personal attacks.

MATTINGLY: Insults next. Yes.

COSTELLO: Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

OK. So we're hearing a different tone, at least this morning, from Bernie Sanders when it comes to Clinton's qualifications, but he says actually he's been trying to stay above the fray for quite some time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: How often have I talked about Hillary Clinton's e-mails? Have you heard me? Not a word. How often have I talked about the Clinton Foundation's fundraising. Have you have heard me say one word about it during the campaign? To say that I am running a vitriolic campaign.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC'S "MORNING JOE": Why haven't you?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC'S "MORNING JOE": Well, I mean, some of them are very good questions.

SANDERS: What?

BRZEZINSKI: Some of them are very good questions.

SANDERS: They are, but I have tried to stay away from personal attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:05:06] COSTELLO: With me now to talk about this and more, CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein. Ron, good morning.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So do you buy that from Bernie Clinton, that he's going easy on Clinton because he hasn't brought up the e-mail scandal?

BROWNSTEIN: No. Well, he's certainly gotten tougher in the last few weeks. Particularly with his argument about oil and gas lobby, and essentially trying to paint a portrait of her as someone who is too tied into the system as it exists in special interests to deliver the kind of sweeping change that his supporters like.

You know, in the end, I think the challenge from Bernie Sanders -- excuse me -- is very straightforward, Carol. He has to win some of these big states that are still on the calendar. That's the only path to the nomination for him. The only way he can win the big states is to do better than he's done among African-American and Latino voters. And that really is the core challenge. And I'm not sure questioning Clinton from an ideological or qualification standpoint is the way forward on that central challenge for his campaign.

COSTELLO: You know, Sanders said -- not only did Sanders say Clinton is unqualified to be president, his campaign said Clinton could destroy the Democratic Party because of her ambition. So older Democratic women are not taking kindly to those sentiments. This is also damaging for Sanders when he needs to expand his base to beat Clinton.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Right. Well, look, I think the unqualified thing was something that was emotionally satisfying but irrelevant to the real challenges he faced if not actually counterproductive as you're saying. As I said, I mean, Bernie Sanders is doing very well with his base. He's winning over 70 percent of voters under 30 in all the exit polls that are taken. That's even higher than Obama attracted in 2008, and he is doing very well with white liberals. But what he has not been able to do consistently is crack the diversity of the Democratic Party.

And as a result, Hillary Clinton has won almost all of the big states because on the Democratic side all of the big states are diverse. The only one he's won is Michigan. As you look forward, you have New York, then Pennsylvania, then New Jersey and California on the last date. If there's any path for Bernie Sanders, it's winning those states and convincing super delegates to abandon Clinton because he has won, you know, down the stretch. And again the only way he can do that is by appealing to more African-American and Latino voters.

And I think you have to do that with more bread and butter arguments. And that she -- making the case that she's unqualified because she's not as sufficiently liberally consistent as I am, I don't think that's the way forward for him in terms of what he actually has to achieve between now and the finish line.

COSTELLO: So are his critics right? Is he a one-trick pony? BROWNSTEIN: Look, I mean, I -- you know, he has gone much further. I

would say no, actually. Because, I mean, Bernie Sanders started as we said before, as this kind of classic one-track candidate, depending almost entirely on young people and socially liberal white-collar whites. He has advanced well beyond that beach. He is now deeply competitive for working class white voters. Beat her among those working class white voters in every Midwestern state except Ohio. And that's what's opened up the map for him.

So he has kind of advanced off the beach where he started. He's crossing one big hill. He still has one big hill to go. And until he proves he can cross that, Hillary Clinton is still in the driver's seat for the nomination.

COSTELLO: All right. Ron Brownstein, many thanks.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: The next debate between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, less than a week away, moderated by Wolf Blitzer, live from Brooklyn 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

On the Republican side, Donald Trump is shifting gears and setting his sights on the GOP convention. The GOP frontrunner is skipping scheduled stops in California and Colorado and beefing up the role of one of his top advisers to help hunt for delegates. All of this as the battle for New York intensifies. In the meantime, Senator Ted Cruz is standing firm and defending his controversial New York values remarks.

Let's get right to CNN's chief political correspondent -- chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. She sat down with Cruz for a one-on-one interview. What did he say?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, about that New York values issue, the "New York Daily News," we talked about it yesterday, greeted him with a not-so warm welcome, suggesting that he take the F and the U train, giving him some helpful hints. So I actually had the newspaper and asked him about it -- there it is.

COSTELLO: There it is.

BASH: Asked him about it at the beginning of our interview. And he took it lightly. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I laughed out loud. Look, I have never been popular with left-wing journalists or tabloids, and frankly, that's not my target audience.

BASH: Any regrets in using that terminology now that you're asking for New York voters to vote for you?

CRUZ: Not remotely because everyone in New York and outside of New York knows exactly what I meant by that, and it is the liberal values of Democratic politicians who have been hammering the people of New York for decades. They've suffered under these liberal values. It's been politicians like Governor Andrew Cuomo, like Hillary Clinton, like Mayor Bill de Blasio.

You know, Andrew Cuomo told New Yorkers, said if you're pro-life, if you believe in traditional marriage, if you believe in the Second Amendment, there is no place for you in the state of New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:10:06] COSTELLO: So I'm still not quite clear on what he considers New York values. Is it -- is it the belief in same-sex marriage? Is that a New York value? Is that what he's talking about?

BASH: I'm sure that's likely one of them. Pretty much any liberal point of view he considers New York values. That's why he's making the case over and over again, as you saw there, that he's talking about liberal politicians and people who support them which, you know, is largely --

COSTELLO: He's talking about social issues, not fiscal policy or is it everything?

BASH: I think it's everything. I think it's everything. And as you and I were talking about both this morning and yesterday when I was up in upstate New York which is a completely different state. It's a different world, as many of the voters up there actually -- that's how they phrased it. It is quite different, and they say up there that they get what he's talking about, that it is largely a liberal place. I mean, you know, we are -- we are in the belly of the beast right now. We're in New York City. This is far different from a lot of the other parts of the state.

The problem for Ted Cruz is this is also where the major population center is, and where most people vote. In general, he is campaigning very hard, though. A little bit here, but much more so in the northern part of the state in upstate New York, because --

COSTELLO: But he gave it a try in New York City.

BASH: He did.

COSTELLO: He went to the Bronx. He went to Brooklyn and the Bronx. He didn't get a great reception and it was because of his immigration policy and that remark.

BASH: And that's true from people outside. Now he argues that he was meeting behind closed doors with pastors, with other -- with religious leaders of all shapes and sizes, and all stripes, and that yesterday I thought what was very interesting, and we showed some of the pictures, he went into an ultra orthodox community in Brooklyn. He helped the kids make pasta. He spoke to a very religious rabbi. And so it speaks to what I was saying before which is the way he's going to do well here, and well is a relative term in New York for Ted Cruz, is by picking up as many delegates as he can because the congressional districts are going to be allotting three delegates each. So if he can get a few in the upstate part of New York, maybe, maybe

some in those pockets, although down here in New York City it's probably less likely, you know, that's something when you're talking about every delegate mattering.

COSTELLO: All right. Dana Bash, thanks.

BASH: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for stopping by.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump not the only one attacking Ted Cruz for his stance on New York values. John Kasich is stepping into that fray, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:55] COSTELLO: First Donald Trump attacked Ted Cruz for his comments on New York values. Now John Kasich is taking his turn. Check out the latest ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Iowa Ted Cruz sneered at our New York values.

CRUZ: I think most people know exactly what New York values are. I got to say they're not Iowa values and they're not New Hampshire values. Everyone knows what New York values are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ted Cruz divides to get a vote. John Kasich unites to get things done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: In the meantime, John Kasich showing that he hearts New York. Touring a deli in the Bronx and chowing down on -- look at the food in front of Governor Kasich, and word is he ate all of it. They're not feeding him well on the campaign trail. He couldn't wait to get to that deli. He had to eat. But as you can see, everyone around him thought it was impressive. But I digress.

With me now to talk about more important matters, CNN political commentators Kayleigh McEnany and Ben Ferguson. Kayleigh is a Trump supporter, Ben is a Cruz supporter.

Welcome to both of you.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: OK.

FERGUSON: Hey, if he wasn't eating it with a fork, right? I mean, like the pizza the other day, he's figured that one out.

COSTELLO: Yes. That was wrong. He did figure that out while he was chowing down -- it was impressive. Let's talk about John Kasich's ad for just a second in the New York values thing.

Ben, is that really effective among Republicans?

FERGUSON: I don't think it's going to be effective at all, and I think the point that Ted Cruz was making and conservative voters understood was Donald Trump even said in his own words I have New York values, implying that they were much more liberal values. New York is a much more liberal state and conservatives there understood exactly what that meant.

I don't know why Kasich thinks this is the right thing to do to go after Ted Cruz in a state where he's, by the way, still in fourth place in the delegate count. He's behind Marco Rubio still and Marco Rubio is not even in the race anymore.

COSTELLO: He's beating Ted Cruz in New York, though.

FERGUSON: Yes. And again, I think he thinks, hey, if I can somehow get in second here that that's going to propel me to the nomination. I just don't get the strategy by him at all. I think it's time for him to say, hey. I had a nice run. I'm in fourth place in the delegate county and Marco Rubio is still beating me. I probably should bow out of this.

COSTELLO: Well, not bowing out but taking a break, Donald Trump appears to be taking a break, Kayleigh. So is he so confident he's going to win New York by leaps and bounds that he's just taking it easy for a time?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think he's re- strategizing obviously California and making a trip there was part of his strategy initially, but then he decided and I think rightly so, but to put all of my eggs in the New York basket, let's get over 50 percent and take nearly 95 delegates or somewhere close to that. Get the momentum behind my wings as I go into the northeast and go to other states.

And, Ben, I have to completely take issue with what you said about New York values being liberal values. If you mean liberal values, you say liberal values. The fact is, Ted Cruz specifically chose to say New York values because he made a calculation that he was going to win the southeast, that he didn't need the northeast, that he could dismiss the entirety of the northeast, but now he needs the northeast. He needs New York. He needs New Jersey. He needs Pennsylvania.

[10:20:01] So now he's going back-pedaling and saying liberal values. But if he meant liberal values, he would have said it.

FERGUSON: Yes, look, here's the thing. It's a great talking point. But the reality is, there are going to be voters that are going to walk into the voting booth in New York and be confused why Donald Trump's name is on the Republican side. He supported Hillary Clinton. He supported Charlie Rangel. He said he was very pro-choice. He said, my New York values are more liberal. He is a liberal in New York. He has supported more liberals in New York running for national office than conservatives. There will actually be voters that cannot believe they're seeing

Donald Trump's name on the Republican side of the ticket. Donald Trump, when he said it first that I have liberal values, New York values, they're a little bit different than the rest of the country, conservatives knew what he meant by that. It meant that he was not a pro-life guy. He was a pro-choice guy. He was not a Second Amendment guy, he was in favor of limiting guns, popular guns that many people have.

MCENANY: No.

FERGUSON: He has supported some of the most liberal people.

MCENANY: Not true.

FERGUSON: Charlie Rangel is New York values. He's not a conservative, and Donald Trump supported Charlie Rangel. So the conservatives are not going to be duped by this idea that somehow Ted Cruz is being mean to liberals in New York.

COSTELLO: Although --

FERGUSON: He wasn't being mean to conservatives.

COSTELLO: Although in the state of New York, Donald Trump is leading in the polls by leaps and bounds. So the New York values thing is kind of backfiring on Ted Cruz.

MCENANY: Exactly.

COSTELLO: And I'll let Kayleigh have the last word on this, because we hear you, Ben.

MCENANY: Thanks, Carol. Well, here's the thing, Ben. You say that New York values is synonymous with liberal values. That's insulting an entirely voting bloc. Believe it or not, New York state is not --

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: Hold on, I let me speak. Let me speak. New York state is not monolithic. They elected George Pataki who is a Republican. New York is not a monolithic voting bloc and it's insensitive and wrong to suggest everyone in New York is liberal. Everyone thinks this way. That's wrong. That's oversimplifying. Ted Cruz insulted an entire region of the country.

FERGUSON: It's not what I'm saying at all.

MCENANY: Not just New York. And you've got to live by your candidate's words. Unfortunately, Ben, it's going to harm him.

COSTELLO: OK. I got to leave it there.

FERGUSON: Again, I agree with you. Donald Trump said it.

COSTELLO: I got to leave it there. Kayleigh McEnany, Ben Ferguson, thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a wild west delegate hunt for Colorado Republicans and Ted Cruz is gunning for the number one spot.

Ana Cabrera in Colorado Springs this morning.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We are here at the district conventions about to get underway here in Colorado Springs. And by the end of this weekend, all of Colorado's delegates to represent the Republican Party from this state at the RNC will be selected.

We'll talk about Colorado's unique delegate election process as well as which presidential candidate has the momentum here Colorado when we he come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:07] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The process that's been called messy, complicated, and really hard to understand. But this year all you need to know about the GOP convention in Colorado is that it matters.

Ana Cabrera is in Colorado Springs with why. Good morning, Ana.

CABRERA: Good morning, Carol. The race for delegates across the country is going to matter this year as we know because 1237 is the number to hit. And it's possible that no one candidate is going to rack up that many delegates going into the RNC come July. And so that's why Colorado matters. And by the end of this week in all of Colorado's delegates will be elected.

Now Ted Cruz definitely has the momentum here in Colorado. Their campaign is expecting a big win in this state through the delegate election process. I can tell you that at the district conventions that have already happened where some of the delegates have been elected, Ted Cruz has swept those that have pledged support to one particular candidate. And a couple of them have also been elected that are unpledged, who have verbally supported Ted Cruz.

Now Kasich's campaign tells me they hope to pick up a few delegates here in Colorado. Trump's campaign is saying that any delegates that they get here will be an added bonus. So it really speaks to where the expectations are and Ted Cruz is the only candidate expected in this state throughout the weekend.

I want to explain the unique process that Colorado has as far as electing their delegates. There's no primary, there's no binding straw poll. Instead these delegates are elected at district and state conventions. And the district conventions are happening today. The state convention tomorrow. 21 delegates will be elected at the district conventions and the remainder or the 13 will elected at the state convention tomorrow.

There are thousands of people who will be voting on these delegate candidates and hundreds of people are running to be those delegate representatives from this state. They'll only have 10 to 20 seconds to give their argument about why they think they should be the ones to go on to the RNC, Carol. So it's really interesting.

The other unique angle here in Colorado is when candidates apply to be a delegate, they have to fill out a form and they can either pledge their support at that time to a particular candidate and mark pledge or they can mark the column that says unpledged, and so going to that national convention there could be some candidates from here in Colorado who have not yet pledged their support to any one particular candidate. And so the fight for those delegates in particular is really underway, Carol.

COSTELLO: Wow. Now we know why each individual candidate has a man or a woman that only focuses on delegates and how they're elected, and wow. It's just so complicated. Strange, but thank you for bringing us that story from Colorado Springs, Ana Cabrera.

The Republican frontrunner Donald Trump is sitting out the Colorado convention tomorrow. Instead focusing his attention on New York. But if you ask Ted Cruz's campaign manager, Trump better win big in New York or he should get out of the race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ROE, TED CRUZ'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I'm assuming Donald is very strong in his home state.